ISA
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Anyone care to share their views on the ISA?
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Silence is golden ... (everyone is muted by ISA)
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LOL!Originally posted by Kyo23:Silence is golden ... (everyone is muted by ISA) -
Someone once quoted the ISA as the "Indefendable Suppressing Apparatus".
The ISA supposed to acting beyond the boundaries of their power. It is cruel, it is harsh and inhuman. The ISA has violated quite a number of Human Right Acts, and captives under it suffer horrid brutallity.
The latest arrest of 7 political speakers, including Keadilan party Tian Chua has sparked fury among certain movements in Malaysia, and a campaign to abolish the ISA has begun.
Whether this campaign suceeds or not, it is up to the hands of those freedom fighters who fight for the basic rights of mankind, among them is to defend our freedom from fear - the ISA -
Heh heh, to be precise, I think you guys got the ISA and the ISD mixed up a little. The ISA gives the ISD its power. The ISD does the dirty work. The ISA itself is neutral. But over the years since it was drafted, the ISA has been re-drafted many times, with each re-drafting giving it more and more power. To the point that the ISD is little more than the government's private thugs, enpowered by an radically souped-up ISA.
Originally the ISA was not such a drastic act. It was drafted to protect Singapore from internal subversion. That's it. Now, if you go up to the Speaker's Corner and say something that the government doesn't like to hear, or infringe by a feather any of the rules and regulations regarding its use, you're being questioned by the police (who knows, they could be ISD), and perhaps even monitored by the ISD, you wouldn't know. Why? In the name of internal security. Be a somebody, and say something against any of the ministers, oh yeah, you're smearing their impecabble reputations, you're a liar, you're trying to create unrest and racial disharmony, you're disturbing the nation's peace, you're trying to destroy Singapore! Under the ISA, you're doing all that! And you must be eliminated!
Extreme paranoia does bad things to a person. What about a group of people ruling a nation? You get an entire nation scared of each other. Oh don't worry, the ISD's not going to come get me or anyone else here for that matter. We're nobodies, and we're just blowing hot air. Mindless coffeeshop chatter. Nope, no one's planning a coup at the moment. But if I were a somebody, trust me, it would come as no surprise when my door gets knocked on in the middle of the night. -
The truth is::::: every country on this fucking piece of blue ball has an ISD in one form or the other.
in some nations, such 'ISD's are even portrayed as the nations guardians or protectors of the weak and the oppressed, some are even believed to be the defender of democracy, freedom and peace like the FBI or NBI of certain nation!!
Others are even accredited with defending the nation's sovereignity by hunting down enemy spys that seeks to destroy the nation either through covert actions or sabotage like CIA, MI5 and KGB.
usually, the bigger a nation, the bigger their ISD tends to be, some nations even have more then 1 ISD department like USA, Russia and China.
while there are some which are less reputable, being linked to KKN and dictorship and suppression of blah blah blah.
BUT the truth is that every nation if not most nation has an ISD and needs an ISD, and their powers are usually wide and powerful in order for them to carry out their jobs.
some of these organization are well known, like the CIA, KGB, MI5 mentioned above just to name afew. They arent just simply concern with spying for your information. but regularly tap phones, keep tags on all politicians and the local media and blah blah blah......
at least in singapore, we know we have an ISD, in other nations, they probably exist in the form of shadows.
In singapore, if someone is arrested under ISD, the govt would need to explain to the peopel why such drastic actions is needed just like when america CIA arrested the amos couple for being traitor.
In other nations, that someone would probably simply disappear into thin air or died of a most unfortunate 'accident'.
But the reality is, such organization is indispensable. but like all organization, it can be abused just like any ministry or any department if the political leader of the nation is evil bent.
so the existance of ISD is just as normal as the existance of the various govt department and statutory boards. just that some people like to paint it in a less reputable light.
SO while, some 'human right' and opposition figurehead humbugs from america, singapore or 'developed' nations puke on singapore's ISD. tell them that i too would like to puke on their CIA,KGB and whatever PUKE PUKE organization they have.
even in a small small company and even in big families, there are informants, backstabber, 2 face snakes and sabouteurs..... so, such organizations are probably part and parcel of human society.
I wont be surprised that WP and SDP and whatever other political party in singapore or elsewhere might have an internal ISD as well.
so...... why be bother about it.....?? non of us is holy. -
Singapore's ISD branch works under the Ministry of Home Affairs. Technically, ISD maintains internal security of this country.
WP and SDP are political parties. Where is the relevence? -
The relevance is that u got shit as your brain.Originally posted by Illegal Operation:Singapore's ISD branch works under the Ministry of Home Affairs. Technically, ISD maintains internal security of this country.
WP and SDP are political parties. Where is the relevence?
the relevance is that u got very very low IQ.
the relevance is that u cant see even though u have eyes.
the relevance is that u cant grow up and u cant see the real world.
SO where is the relevance??..... you are IRRELEVANT!! thats what.
pathetic......
*yawn* waste bandwidth, waste time on a pile of cowdung.......
tomolo i have to go and apologise to the cow for associating his dung to this crap poster. even the cow dung is higher class than this .... whatever... *shiver* -
Do you have to hurl abuses at everybody who do not see the point your way?
My question, to put forward simply, is how WP and SDP could also own a department that rivals(or work in conjunction) with the Ministry of home affair to maintain internal security of this country. -
Eh Illegal Operation has a point there.
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pathetic.......Originally posted by Illegal Operation:Do you have to hurl abuses at everybody who do not see the point your way?
My question, to put forward simply, is how WP and SDP could also own a department that rivals(or work in conjunction) with the Ministry of home affair to maintain internal security of this country.
heheee........
pathetic......
read the post again........maybe u might get a sudden burst of intelligience and understand my sentences......
heheee.......
pathetic....... -
where is the point??? he is asking a question, not making a point.....Originally posted by KTE:Eh Illegal Operation has a point there.
I dont mind if u are against my point....
I do mind when that somebody happens to talk like a six year old kid....
perhaps its because i live on earth..... and he live in heaven.... the utopia.....
me???...... i make a living on hell....seen the sinisters of hell.... and learned to live by hell's rule..... which is.....no rules.... -
If you have to call me names to send your point across, my discussion with you on this topic ends here.
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You can make a point by asking a question, don''t you know?Originally posted by tripwire:where is the point??? he is asking a question, not making a point.....
I dont mind if u are against my point....
I do mind when that somebody happens to talk like a six year old kid....
perhaps its because i live on earth..... and he live in heaven.... the utopia.....
me???...... i make a living on hell....seen the sinisters of hell.... and learned to live by hell's rule..... which is.....no rules....
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Reminds me of the Gestapo
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The ISA permits detention without trial. There might have been a time when the ISA was necessary. That time is past. The ISA should be abolished.
The saddest victim of the ISA is Chia Thye Poh who was imprisoned for more than twenty years. His case was never heard in the courts. Imagine going to prison in your early thirties and leaving it in your fifties, and not being charged in court for whatever you did (or didn't do).
Singaporeans must never forget.
[This message has been edited by witness (edited 04 August 2001).] -
how u know that chia thye poh is innocent?? the govt gave him a choice... denounce violence and go free OR stay under ISA and enjoy the free food and housing.... its his choice... no point shouting innocence as if u have no choice.Originally posted by witness:The ISA permits detention without trial. There might have been a time when the ISA was necessary. That time is past. The ISA should be abolished.
The saddest victim of the ISA is Chia Thye Poh who was imprisoned for more than twenty years. His case was never heard in the courts. Imagine going to prison in your early thirties and leaving it in your fifties, and not being charged in court for whatever you did (or didn't do).
Singaporeans must never forget.
[This message has been edited by witness (edited 04 August 2001).]
Secondly... ISA isnt just a political tool... its also use to detain enemy spies... counter intelligience sort of stuff..
SO dont be a naive moron. -
I wonder who's being moronic.
If there is clear evidence that Chia has done something wrong, why not charge him in court? If not enough evidence exists to charge him in court, why detain him for more than twenty years? What has happened to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?
The ISA gives the government the right to arrest anyone without trial. In Malaysia, it is currently used to detain those who choose to disagree with the government. It is a law which can too easily be abused. Think about it.
[This message has been edited by witness (edited 05 August 2001).] -
Lolz. Many things cannot be charged in courts simply because it involves information of highly sensitive nature.
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oh.... u a pile of bullshit... ISA isnt simply a political tool... for your information. there are quite afew of ISA agents on our side who are currently held under malaysian ISA... what is chia thye poh compare to all these agents of ours who risk their life for the rest of us?Originally posted by witness:I wonder who's being moronic.
If there is clear evidence that Chia has done something wrong, why not charge him in court? If not enough evidence exists to charge him in court, why detain him for more than twenty years? What has happened to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?
The ISA gives the government the right to arrest anyone without trial. In Malaysia, it is currently used to detain those who choose to disagree with the government. It is a law which can too easily be abused. Think about it.
[This message has been edited by witness (edited 05 August 2001).]
And just to add a bit more info for you.. our ISA got a few malaysians languishing in it for spying on us... though i have no love for spies.... i must respect their courage and their sense of duty to lay down all they have for the country... either malaysian or singaporeans...spies
CHia thye poh on the other hand is little more then a sucker who got free food and lodging at the taxpayers expense... maybe the govt should have made him work for his food long time ago instead of wasting good money on a stupid man who cant see beyong his eye lashes, his heart is narrower then a thread and his mind is obsess with hate and anger... such people dont deserve to be held under ISA... they should be thrown into the sanitorium, lock behind bars with straight jacket and throw away the fucking key. -
Shotgun...ever heard of closed court sessions where the hearing is held in private?
The judiciary is an important arm of a tripartite government. It is there precisely to counter possibilities of abuse such as the ISA.
Tripwire.... stop mouthing obscenities and vague statements about spies and espionage. The ISA is wrong in principle and practically, there seems to be clear instances of abuse in the past. And every individual is important in a society. What rational counter-arguments can you offer? -
My counter argument is... u are too naive to think that the law is perfect and that all cases can be dealt with one way or the other...Originally posted by witness:Shotgun...ever heard of closed court sessions where the hearing is held in private?
The judiciary is an important arm of a tripartite government. It is there precisely to counter possibilities of abuse such as the ISA.
Tripwire.... stop mouthing obscenities and vague statements about spies and espionage. The ISA is wrong in principle and practically, there seems to be clear instances of abuse in the past. And every individual is important in a society. What rational counter-arguments can you offer?
consider this... a closed court session... wouldnt such a session be prone to abuse as well like the ISA?? so what is the difference?? u are changing the soup but not the medicine..
And if espionage is vague to you... real life must be a blur to you as well. -
Trip...
I never claimed that the law is perfect. But where it's obvious that it's grossly imperfect, we should try to change it.
Open session or closed, a trial consists of judges, witnesses and lawyers on both sides. Better that than not having your case heard for over two decades.... and then finally released without an apology....nothing.
"When Hitler attacked the Jews I was not a Jew, therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned. Then, Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church - and there was nobody left to be concerned." (Martin Niemoller) -
hitler is just one man.... how can one man take on millions of jews and single handedly sent 6 million jews to their graves??Originally posted by witness:Trip...
I never claimed that the law is perfect. But where it's obvious that it's grossly imperfect, we should try to change it.
Open session or closed, a trial consists of judges, witnesses and lawyers on both sides. Better that than not having your case heard for over two decades.... and then finally released without an apology....nothing.
"When Hitler attacked the Jews I was not a Jew, therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned. Then, Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church - and there was nobody left to be concerned." (Martin Niemoller)
No doubt hitler may have been the one who gave the order to do so.... but wasnt hitler voted into office by the german people??? so,,,,, in truth,.. was it a case of one man named hitler against the millions of jews or was it the case of 10's of millions of germans against the millions of jews??
hitler cannot work alone and certainly do not wield all powers... he like all humans need an inner circle of confidant and collaborators.... BUT when the axe come chopping down....
tell me.... if u are the allie commander... would you openly blame and declare the german people as fully responsible for the plight of the jews??? or wont it be easier to blame just one man and be done with it??
BUT sincerely.... how many jews did hitler killed with his own hands???
In singapore.... we the people of singapore voted the govt into office... if you wanna blame someone about the ISA... then you should be blaming us... the voters... who by our combine votes gave the govt this authority... and has continue to do so for the last 31 years.....
For your information... ISA is a 2 edge sword... it cuts those who faced the charge... but it also cuts into the popularity of the govt... so if there is widespread discrimination... then i have little doubt that the govt would be voted out. -
One of my favourite quotations too. Martin Niemoller here was trying to say that one should stand together and fight in times of troubles.
[This message has been edited by Illegal Operation (edited 09 August 2001).]