Planning to sign on? Read this.
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I ORD on 1/1/07 after a 6yrs bond with the SAF as a infantry Leader or as a NCO. Join Army because of the JPSDS (join poly scheme) program to finance my studies.
After my 'O' levels which was about 10yrs ago, I got a job in the factory as a machine operator earning 1.5k from 3-11pm. Few months after leaving the Army (had some savings) , I started looking for some jobs as sales co-ordinator and other sales post but was only offered $1.5k due to the lack of experience. A company I went to from the refer of a job agent said that the job market value from the job agent is only $1.5k-$1.6k for fresh ploy grads where I was asking for 1.8k (I didn't show them my education background). It is sad as in the factory job I had which need no experience or education can land me on a $1.5k where now after 10 years a job with my diploma land me on a 1.5k also. I thought that only a sales job can land me back to where my pay was at but the so call market rate made me very disappointed.
A friend of mine who left the RSAF 10years ago had a job of a tech for $1.5 with his poly dip and now another friend of mine also a dip holder just got a job also as a tech for 1.8k. To me its like our average chicken rice have rised from $2 to $3 for the pass 10yrs and the starting pay have not increased 33% but lower.
It sad to me that after having a last drawn pay of almost close to 3k that I was push down to getting 1.5k by the employer. Some may say that who ask me to sign on in the first place, but there is little choice at that time for me in order to make ends meet. Some guys was laughing at me when I said I was offered 1.5k as a diploma student, they said that they have yet to hear 1.5k for such a long time.
If you guys have notice that I had only gone through a 6 yrs contract and not a 10yrs PP plan. Some friends had advised me to go through for another 4yrs with it at the end i will get a bigger sum of money. My greatest fear came true as in last year, many at age 30+ and 40+ warrants were given golden hand shakes. Although they did get a sum of compansion but how long are they going to surive with all their commitments and pay cut if they work outside. Moreover if I do not get the PP2 which is the fear of most young regulars now the age of me coming out of the force will be even older.
Have anyone seen under performing regulars getting PP2 and performing regulars not getting, this maybe personal views. BUT there is some rumor that someone asked CPC the reason and they said 'we need good people to be on the top and some to be on the bottom, if everyone we take are good than who is going to be on the bottom?'.
8-9yrs ago when the PP1 was introdued everyone in the force was offered the chance to convert from contact to PP1 or 2. I didn't believe in the 10years PP1 and was called in for an interview. In interview I spoke to a captain or a major which I can't remember, he said that PP2 will be offered to most people if they don't make major mistake and maintain performance during their service and ask me why I won't want to take up the plan. I reply that I believe that I be earning better when I go out from the force and that 3-5k is not enough for me. He looked a bit angry and told me that he believe that he will can get about 1/2 a million in his account when he leave the force at age 45.
Today I feel a bit pettiful for the young officer that his 1/2 a million may not be as good as he think, due to the last 10 years the performance of the fund was not doing that well and he maybe the next one been offer the golden hand shake.
I never regrat for spending my 6yrs in the SAF, after all they paid full for my 3yrs of study in poly. Anyway I did enjoy the job sometimes esp when I'm getting paid better than most of my schoolmates. But the idea of not having a iron rice bowl in the force and maybe broken after the 4yrs is too much for me to bear.
In my memory there was a CDF or COA who visited my camp for some Q&A some years back . A question was ask by a platoon sgt,
'Sir, is there a scheme for the specialist for a degree course which we can take and be sponcer by the SAF.'
'no, we do not need degree specialist in the force, a poly diploma is enough for the specialist.'
'Sir, can we go on unpaid leave?'
'no, its like you can't go for unpaid leave and leave your appoint and have someone replacing you. When you come back where is that person going to go? Just like me I have a masters but I always wanted to go for my doctorate. Someone must take out my place in my absents but when I come back what the person going to do?'
As it been years back I can't remember word to word but thats the idea of the conversation. That point of time maybe the force don't really need a degree specialist but it be always good for anyone to upgrade. We have so many people waiting to be a platoon sgt and we can replace him anytime with someone after his tour. A senior officer is not so easily replaceable esp when he is a COA or CDF even after his tour.
Pls excuse me for many spelling and grammar mistake, had not been practicing much after leaving school. Now I had found a sales job with a even lower basic pay as what was stated above but with very high commission. I hope that some people can learn from my story. PLS DO NOT ASK ME WHERE I GET MY RUMORS FROM AND WHO TOLD ME WHAT. If you think that its just another story I made up then just forget it and treat it as some junk. -
A career in the SAF is only good if you can continue to be in top physical and mental form but only as good as you can be up till 45 years MAX.
Somehow, the SAF do not seem to appreciate those over 45 years - except for Technical Specialists with their accumulated years of experience to keep the high-tech equipment running.
Whether PP1 or 2, does the SAF need any excuse to give any golden handshake ?
For those with financial difficulties or poor middle-school grades, life can be tougher in Civvy street, and the SAF maybe about the best option insofar as it will open doors to help in one's further education up to Polytechnic level.
Under such circumstances, the seeming disadvantage maybe the extent of bonded contract with the SAF, which can be turned into an advantage with further upgrading of skills, or with available spare and idle time to pursue further self-studies.
By the time one come to the age of 28 to 30 years old, it is best to get back into Civvy street, unless one is being assigned to some high-tech specialist or skilled trade in any units of the SAF that will bring in even higher wages that cannot be expected in Civvy Street given the status quo to one's experience.
At the age of 28 to 30 years old, it is not too late to start or to change a new career, and it is better then being pushed into civvy street past this age band - especially when not mentally prepared for such a surprise.
However, SAF pays well, and its wage structure maybe superior to Civvy Street for one's age and experience, as the SAF has to compete with the Private Sector for skilled or educated personnel to fill the needs of its organisational manpower structure.
Unfortunately, only a few skills picked up in the SAF is applicable in Civvy Street - other than Man-Management skills, the other suitable SAF trade skills will be the truck driving skills for various classes; the Combat Engineer Skills in explosive demolition works and heavy earth moving equipment handling; Naval Scuba Diving for off-shore deep-sea maintenance work; the vehicle and engine repairs; gun maintenance and repairs skills are also sought after by some gun clubs and the Singapore Police Force - as well as local GLC owned Shipyards involved with naval shipbuilding; aircraft technicians will find niche employment as ground crew with local and foreign airlines - the engine specialists absorbed by Aircraft Engine manufacturers with local facilities.
If one is to expand the horizon beyond this Little Red Dot, one should be able to see a wider range of opportunities that the SAF background experience may directly or indirectly come into positive effect. -
Actually the title should be more appropriately, "planning to sign bond?", because everything is put in motion after you sign bond.
If you plan to sign bond, be prepared to sign on in army for life, because the skills you learn there is useless in the commercial world. Unless, you reach high ranks like Colonel to Major General and know how to lick ass. Then you can go far, because after you retire from your military post, you will be asked to take directorships in government linked companies. -
not only for army....it applies to police, prisons & some positions in MOH as well.
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hao nan bu dang bing
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lol all along i knew signing on was a bad idea.
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Only other sectors that will require such people are security companies.Originally posted by de_middle:not only for army....it applies to police, prisons & some positions in MOH as well.
So unless you want to spend your mid life as a security guard, I don't think it's wise to sign on or sign bond. -
not all the sign on are bad, at least those technical side not too bad... They still can find similar job outside, but the pay might not be the same. However, as we know, staying in technical line is hard to make u rich....
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if you sign on with degree and a couple of godfathers inside, then why worry about retirement.
But if you sign on with none of the above, then you are some what digging your own grave... -
noted. thanks for sharing.
i think i'm glad i didn't sign on. -
nowadays take taxi, alot of drivers all enciks....
haiz... gif the nation your prime and drive the tazi for the rest of your life.....
dunno isit karma....scold ppl for 20yrs, kena scolded by pple for the next 20 yrs... -
oh that explains why taxi driver nowadays are likeOriginally posted by NewAgeSensitiveBoy:nowadays take taxi, alot of drivers all enciks....
haiz... gif the nation your prime and drive the tazi for the rest of your life.....
dunno isit karma....scold ppl for 20yrs, kena scolded by pple for the next 20 yrs...
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and the government still encourage employing old people? they themselves not doing that in the government sector hor
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I ORDed from NS a few weeks ago.
Prior to ORDing, I was asked to attend one final WOSPEC learning day and during this period SM Army informed us that qualified specialists would now be allowed to further their studies to the degree level.
One such example of a graduate wospec is the new RSM 1SIR, who has a Bachelors. -
I too ORDed from RSAF last year may and I made plans to move on 4 years before I leave the force... Got a degree doign online course a bit of pain here and there lots of sleepless nights due to both work and school work...
3 months before I quite made lots of inquiries to lots of company... but I agree with you friend this age ppl don't take SAF exp in to account... So must use your brain and networking to get job. Got a job at ST Log starting pay of 2.2k and got 2.5 after 3 months...
1 year later left SG and I'm in Canada now relax one corner doing something I always have enjoyed teaching and doing Scuba Diving.
Bro you should have started making plans way before you left like when u know you did not want the PP1 contract...
I have to agree with you that SAF kind of cheated ppl into signing it as a lot of the guys would not get PP2 even if they were performing... in case of Air Force bummers in training schools get PP2 without even serving one year of Operations life and ppl like you and me that is really serving the country by going out for deployment in rain and shine are not offered... well bit the bullet only ball lickers are able to get PP2...
I got so fed up with the SAF that even during my last bit in my unit I made a few complaints to places about the type of treatments on the usage of our Sat and Sun for NDP rehersals and deployment and how we were "repaid" by cancelling those owed day by some idiots that called them selves leaders and officers, just because they were more than a month old and were not taken... u tell me WTH is going on...
Leave were not able to be used in block as they were lack of manpower... during the last few months of service... would you believe that these things happen?
I felt so cheated by such units and "officers" or SH.it Heads when they need the help of the men they would do all the crap prep talk and after use tell you to F off and don't ask about off days...
I feel I've done the right thing and left SG as serving Reservist training is a waste of my time for such an "First Class Organisation"
You take care and I believe you will be better outside so hand in there. -
The problem with a career in the SAF is that it is a conscript army. In a conscript army where the conscripts vastly outnumber the regulars, it will be an army designed for and run for conscripts.
Take the issue of the army taking liberties with your time/weekends. Because the vast majority of the people in the army are lowly paid conscripts, it costs the army next to nothing to mobilise them en-masse for rubbish like NDP. The fact that their time is cheap also means that the army can be very inefficient in the way it uses its soldiers. It can, for instance, get 300 soldiers to wait even though there is nothing to do. After all, anyone who does a simple risk analysis will conclude that it is better to have them on stand by and not need them than need them and not have them ready at hand - especially as they cost next to no money!
As a regular specialist, you are tainted by association as you are just one level above them and is needed to look after them.
As well, many of the roles that a regular soldier fills can also be performed by a conscript. Hence, your value to the SAF is diminished as your role gets narrower and narrower.
Having so many conscripts also mean that your complaints about condition of service will have less impact. Whenever, you complain about pay, for instance, someone only needs to compare your pay to the conscripts to undermine your argument.
The point of this rambling post? Don't be a regular soldier. -
Most of us take a very harsh view of signing on. I admit that I did that too. I still don't view signing on as a viable career option unless yor really have no choice.
When I did my NS, it was really my first oppurtunity to be with people who were genuinely less fortunate than me. For me, signing on is just one of several choices, for them, it may be the only choice. It is rather unfortunate for them, but one lesson that can be learnt from the many who have becomed disillusioned is this, before you sign on, have a goal. Use your time and money during your bond/contract to work towards that goal. Use regular service as a stepping stone rather than as the main focal point of your career.
Let's face it, only a few actually can be promoted due to merit. My 1st CSM during my NS days was one such person. Army mad, high-flying EOD guy who devoted his whole life to the army. Last I heard was that his wife divorced him. He's now pretty young for a 2WO, but is it really worth it?
And yes, command positions in such forces are not viewed as relevant work experience by the private sector. Even some government organizations don't view it as such. One RAdm made a huge mess of SMRT, because he kept pulling rank. Remember, always think thrice before signing on. -
I agree, you need backers and you need some paper for the backers to justify your promotions.Originally posted by justcooler:if you sign on with degree and a couple of godfathers inside, then why worry about retirement.
But if you sign on with none of the above, then you are some what digging your own grave...
It's really becoming harder these days. A degree alone is no longer enough, these days, you need honours really to compete in the market. People plan really early for their careers, it's best if people who are signing also do think of the market outside of the armed forces. -
If you're in a technical or a specialised vocation and are below 35 when you ORD, look abroad..
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well i share all your feelings .. if you are in the Armed forces , maybe think of saving more and put into action
i left the navy after 6 years ...well. the pay is low .. but i lke freedom outside
wont have to worry a midnite call to go back unit -
i think its one of the factors which many overlooked.Originally posted by syncopation_music:well i share all your feelings .. if you are in the Armed forces , maybe think of saving more and put into action
i left the navy after 6 years ...well. the pay is low .. but i lke freedom outside
wont have to worry a midnite call to go back unit
the pay is definitely higher than private sectors. but its liable for a call up anytime. so its like 24 hours on standby. -
the goverment say extend retirement age to 65, then SAF must do like wiseOriginally posted by alwaysdisturbed:i think its one of the factors which many overlooked.
the pay is definitely higher than private sectors. but its liable for a call up anytime. so its like 24 hours on standby. -
LOL...agree. Not only that...they must re-hire all the EnciksOriginally posted by t_a_s:the goverment say extend retirement age to 65, then SAF must do like wise -
agree wif u, but seriously those laid off by e saf n those who decide not to continue like me still find it hard to survive.Originally posted by IronBandit:Bro you should have started making plans way before you left like when u know you did not want the PP1 contract...
I feel I've done the right thing and left SG as serving Reservist training is a waste of my time for such an "First Class Organisation"
You take care and I believe you will be better outside so hand in there.
So envy u, i still gotta do my tupid reservist this coming monday, paid miserably sums n gotta do shit work, for example, those regulars there all try to siam, dun wan do shit work n they told their CO they very busy no time to do, suggest getting reservists in to do, n they got it their way. But almost EVERYTIME i saw them, they were "busy" chitchatting away, talking crap, talking over e phone, doing nothing n even xtreme which i dun wan state here...
haiz... where's my Reservist Training??? why this Shit work???
not many ppl can be like u, leaving sg, cos we find it hard to leave n start anew. anyway urs will be like a dream all of us r striving for!
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Hi,
I think I share the same view as the TS.. I was once a regular too, in Commandos and same like you, i served a total of 6 years. I signed on not because of the money but for the honour of being the best as I was graduating soon from Poly, so I thought why not try to be the best in SAF as well.
And because I got good grade(I got Cert of Merit for my Diploma), I am quite confident that I can I can get a place in Uni, and Army Recuitment Centre also promised that if I can excel in my BMT, I can convert to Officer. So why not?
And I tried my best, and got Best company trainee during my CDO BMT in Hendon Camp. I was selected to go leaders' course, which is a course to upgrade to 3SGT, and also a path to go through whereby they will select the top 15 trainees to go OCS. I was ranked 8 so I was selected to go. And went for my OCS Airborne COurse, and on the day we going to do our first jump, our then CO called up 3 of us and told us we cant convert because we were from different contract. I was like WTF, previous batch all did it, but why stop? And his reply was because those who convert to OCS cant excel in SAFTI, thats why they stopped this conversion.
My world was torn apart, and I remained as a spec throughout my stay. Pay was good in CDO, but life sucks ever since.
I just ORDed in July earlier this year and have yet to get my gratuity. SAF sucks, to me they will always delay in giving you money, but if you do any mistakes, you will see money deducted on your next pay. That's how efficient they are.
But I am happy man ORDing and getting out of this F*Cked organisation. I am now a happy man manning 4 mobileshops island wide... Life might be tough, but at least satisfying.
To those who's planning to sign on, ask all questions before you sign on the dotted line. Because they can change anything they wan which is not stated on the contract.
Cheers
Vin