LKY makes alot of sense
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1. It's not MY definition of Political Corruption.Originally posted by Gazelle:If that is your definition of political corruption, then I would say that every politician in this world is corrupted.
2. I asked you for your definition, till now, you've either sidestepped it, or refused to come up with one.
3. I don't believe I've made any accusation as to who's corrupt. And who isn't.
4. All I'm saying is that the cleverer regimes in the world can make the same statement and they wont be guilty of lying. This in direct response to your public pondering as to how many politicians can say the same thing.
5. I think you are either naive, or a habitual accusor, if you say based on that, every politician in the world is corrupt. -
http://www.u4.no/themes/political-corruption/introduction.cfm
What is political corruption?
Political corruption can be defined both with reference to the main actors involved, namely persons at the highest levels of the political system, and the purpose of the corrupt behaviour, namely to sustain the hold on power. Hence, political corruption can be for private and group enrichment, and for power preservation purposes. Often these two forms of political corruption are connected. Some of the larger and more serious political corruption scandals include both processes - accumulation on the one hand and the misuse of extracted or public money for political purposes on the other. The latter process is somewhat under-researched and underestimated, since much of the focus in the literature has been on accumulation.
Political corruption in the form of accumulation or extraction occurs when government officials use and abuse their hold on power to extract from the private sector, from government revenues, and from the economy at large. These processes of accumulation have been called extraction, embezzlement, rent-seeking, plunder and even kleptocracy ("rule by thieves" ), depending on the extent and context. Extraction takes place mainly in the form of soliciting bribes in procurement and government projects, in privatisation processes and in taxation. Military procurement is known to be particularly affected by extractive political corruption worldwide, because of the involvement of top-level politicians, national interests and secrecy.
The other process, when extracted resources (and public money) are used for power preservation and power extension purposes, usually takes the form of favouritism and patronage politics. It includes a favouritist and politically motivated distribution of financial and material inducements, benefits, advantages, and spoils. Techniques include money and material favours to build political loyalty and political support. Power-holders can pay off rivals and opposition and secure a parliamentary majority. By giving preferences to private companies they can get party and campaign funds, and by paying off the governmental institutions of checks and control they can stop investigations and audits and gain judicial impunity. Furthermore, by buying loyal decisions from election commissions and by buying votes they can secure their re-election.
Political corruption takes place at the highest levels of the political system, and can thus be distinguished from administrative or bureaucratic corruption. Bureaucratic corruption takes place at the implementation end of politics, for instance in government services like education and health. Political corruption takes place at the formulation end of politics, where decisions on the distribution of the nation's wealth and the rules of the game are made.
Political corruption is usually also distinguished from business and private sector corruption. This is only a matter of academic classification, however, since the bribes offered by private companies, domestic and international, are frequent and significant corruption drivers. Our focus here, however, is not on the supply side of corrupt transactions, but on the demand side. Most definitions of corruption also emphasise the demand (state) side, for instance in stating that corruption is "abuse of public authority and power for private benefit".
In this text, we will not go into bureaucratic/administrative corruption, except when relevant to illustrating the systemic character of political corruption - the pyramid of upward extraction. We will keep the focus on the demand side, on corrupt governments, while acknowledging the importance of the supply side as drivers. We will furthermore focus on political corruption in developing and transition countries, and not the developed world (although examples from the developed world are used to illustrate certain mechanisms).
The most widely used definition of corruption is the World Bank's working definition of corruption as "abuse of public power for private benefit". Transparency International (TI) takes a somewhat broader approach and defines it as "the abuse of entrusted power for private gain". In this line, political corruption can be defined as "abuse of political power for private benefit". But the problem remains of defining what is "abuse" and what is "political". -
Making excuse to raise absurdly high salary that one don't deserve, isn't it not abuse of political power for private benefit? Making excuse to create another unnecessary position to gain millions from the tax payers money isn't it not abuse of political power for private benefit?
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Originally posted by (human):Making excuse to raise absurdly high salary that one don't deserve, isn't it not abuse of political power for private benefit? Making excuse to create another unnecessary position to gain millions from the tax payers money isn't it not abuse of political power for private benefit?
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I'm not sure what Gazelle hopes to achieve.
The post he makes indicates quite clearly that corruption has many forms. Ultimately, it is an abuse of power granted by whatever position the person holds.
Also, just because the World Bank subscribes to one definition, does not preclude other definition. The World Bank's purpose after all is to dole out money to developing countries. Hence its immediate concern is to safeguard the money it doles out.
Either Gazelle does not understand what "Corruption" really means, or he intentionally does not, or he is too stupid to comprehend it. Either way, if he's in a habit of shooting himself in the foot. -
excellent. self explainaryOriginally posted by Gazelle:http://www.u4.no/themes/political-corruption/introduction.cfm
What is political corruption?
Political corruption can be defined both with reference to the main actors involved, namely persons at the highest levels of the political system, and the purpose of the corrupt behaviour, namely to sustain the hold on power. Hence, political corruption can be for private and group enrichment, and for power preservation purposes. Often these two forms of political corruption are connected. Some of the larger and more serious political corruption scandals include both processes - accumulation on the one hand and the misuse of extracted or public money for political purposes on the other. The latter process is somewhat under-researched and underestimated, since much of the focus in the literature has been on accumulation.
Political corruption in the form of accumulation or extraction occurs when government officials use and abuse their hold on power to extract from the private sector, from government revenues, and from the economy at large. These processes of accumulation have been called extraction, embezzlement, rent-seeking, plunder and even kleptocracy ("rule by thieves" ), depending on the extent and context. Extraction takes place mainly in the form of soliciting bribes in procurement and government projects, in privatisation processes and in taxation. Military procurement is known to be particularly affected by extractive political corruption worldwide, because of the involvement of top-level politicians, national interests and secrecy.
The other process, when extracted resources (and public money) are used for power preservation and power extension purposes, usually takes the form of favouritism and patronage politics. It includes a favouritist and politically motivated distribution of financial and material inducements, benefits, advantages, and spoils. Techniques include money and material favours to build political loyalty and political support. Power-holders can pay off rivals and opposition and secure a parliamentary majority. By giving preferences to private companies they can get party and campaign funds, and by paying off the governmental institutions of checks and control they can stop investigations and audits and gain judicial impunity. Furthermore, by buying loyal decisions from election commissions and by buying votes they can secure their re-election.
Political corruption takes place at the highest levels of the political system, and can thus be distinguished from administrative or bureaucratic corruption. Bureaucratic corruption takes place at the implementation end of politics, for instance in government services like education and health. Political corruption takes place at the formulation end of politics, where decisions on the distribution of the nation's wealth and the rules of the game are made.
Political corruption is usually also distinguished from business and private sector corruption. This is only a matter of academic classification, however, since the bribes offered by private companies, domestic and international, are frequent and significant corruption drivers. Our focus here, however, is not on the supply side of corrupt transactions, but on the demand side. Most definitions of corruption also emphasise the demand (state) side, for instance in stating that corruption is "abuse of public authority and power for private benefit".
In this text, we will not go into bureaucratic/administrative corruption, except when relevant to illustrating the systemic character of political corruption - the pyramid of upward extraction. We will keep the focus on the demand side, on corrupt governments, while acknowledging the importance of the supply side as drivers. We will furthermore focus on political corruption in developing and transition countries, and not the developed world (although examples from the developed world are used to illustrate certain mechanisms).
The most widely used definition of corruption is the World Bank's working definition of corruption as "abuse of public power for private benefit". Transparency International (TI) takes a somewhat broader approach and defines it as "the abuse of entrusted power for private gain". In this line, political corruption can be defined as "abuse of political power for private benefit". But the problem remains of defining what is "abuse" and what is "political".
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I am not sure what fingolfin himselfs is trying to achieve here. What we are trying to established here is to get a common understanding of the world political corruption before discussing this subject further.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:I'm not sure what Gazelle hopes to achieve.
The post he makes indicates quite clearly that corruption has many forms. Ultimately, it is an abuse of power granted by whatever position the person holds.
Also, just because the World Bank subscribes to one definition, does not preclude other definition. The World Bank's purpose after all is to dole out money to developing countries. Hence its immediate concern is to safeguard the money it doles out.
Either Gazelle does not understand what "Corruption" really means, or he intentionally does not, or he is too stupid to comprehend it. Either way, if he's in a habit of shooting himself in the foot.
As usual, big talkers like him will make plenty of accusation on whichever subject which contradicts his thinking and not back up their claims with facts,
What I would suggest is that FN give us his definition of political corruption and give us example of incorrupted politicians in this world based on his definition. HOW? -
this is what i call selective highlighting skillsOriginally posted by Lin Yu:excellent. self explaintory -
It seems like only Gazelle has not awakened from the truth or pretending not to awaken but those who read those sentences did. So lets pray that Gazelle will come to his sense one day. Dear brother and sister let us pray for Gazelle.
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I am not going to waste my saliva, time, effort to pray for such a worthless person.Originally posted by (human):It seems like only Gazelle has not awakened from the truth or pretending not to awaken but those who read those sentences did. So lets pray that Gazelle will come to his sense one day. Dear brother and sister let us pray for Gazelle. -
please lah.. bandit also more honest lor..... bandit will ask u... ur money or ur life...... while someone else will tell u.... they took ur money is for ur own good lor..Originally posted by (human):Sounds like bandit.
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and this is what i call refusal to see things as it really areOriginally posted by Gazelle:this is what i call selective highlighting skills -
just to add to your point - bandits only take our money once, but those fellows are taking our money regularly.Originally posted by I-like-flings(m):please lah.. bandit also more honest lor..... bandit will ask u... ur money or ur life...... while someone else will tell u.... they took ur money is for ur own good lor.. -
We pray for him because he's one of the mindless sheep that is poisoned by the local propaganda. Let us pray that he will recover his conscientious sense.Originally posted by qlqq9:I am not going to waste my saliva, time, effort to pray for such a worthless person. -
no no.. this one is got no diff lah... if u are stupid enough to walk down the same road where the bandit is waiting then they will sure rob u again one lah.. u think they will say next meh?... same as someone else.. u stupid enough to vote them in yrs after yrs... so they will "care" about u again and again lor... no diff lahOriginally posted by qlqq9:just to add to your point - bandits only take our money once, but those fellows are taking our money regularly.
but are bad to u.. just one is more honest about it...
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[quote]Originally posted by I-like-flings(m):
[b]
no no.. this one is got no diff lah... if u are stupid enough to walk down the same road where the bandit is waiting then they will sure rob u again one lah.. u think they will say next meh?... same as someone else.. u stupid enough to vote them in yrs after yrs... so they will "care" about u again and again lor... no diff lah -
What? You can't handle something too abstract?Originally posted by Gazelle:I am not sure what fingolfin himselfs is trying to achieve here. What we are trying to established here is to get a common understanding of the world political corruption before discussing this subject further.
As usual, big talkers like him will make plenty of accusation on whichever subject which contradicts his thinking and not back up their claims with facts,
What I would suggest is that FN give us his definition of political corruption and give us example of incorrupted politicians in this world based on his definition. HOW? Why? Can't handle truth? I have consistently tried to back up my claims with facts. Only a person like you can't seem to accept the facts and instead call them lies.
Corruption, at the basic form, is simply the abuse of power granted by the position of authority a person holds. From that point, a lot of decisions by this regime can be considered corruption, especially the use of the media by them as weapons against the opposition. Misuse of the tools of the state to control and reinforce its control is corruption. Either you understand this, or please go grow a brain or two. Seems that mass of grey matter isn't enough for you to comprehend abstract concepts. -
Gazelle, do you consider below cases of detention without trial abuse of power and corruption?
Detention without trial
Scores of the ruling People's Action Party (PAP) opponents have been jailed and, according to Amnesty International reports, tortured under the Internal Security Act (ISA) which allows detention without trial. I cite you the three longest serving political prisoners in Singapore.
1. Mr Chia Thye Poh, Member of Parliament with the now-defunct opposition Barisan Sosialis, imprisoned for 32 years from 1966-1998.
2. Dr Lim Hock Siew, medical doctor and leader of the Barisan Sosialis, imprisoned for nearly 20 years from 1963-1982.
3. Mr Said Zahari, Journalist and chairman of the Partai Rakyat, imprisoned for 17 years from 1963-1980.
http://singaporedemocrat.org/articleABA.html
Chia Thye Poh
http://www.singapore-window.org/81126ctp.htm
Lim Hock Siew
http://singaporedemocrat.org/articlelimhocksiew.html
Said Zahari
http://singaporerebel.blogspot.com/2007/04/zaharis-17-years-now-online.html -
And which polician in this world is not corrupted based on your definition?Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:What? You can't handle something too abstract? Why? Can't handle truth? I have consistently tried to back up my claims with facts. Only a person like you can't seem to accept the facts and instead call them lies.
Corruption, at the basic form, is simply the abuse of power granted by the position of authority a person holds. From that point, a lot of decisions by this regime can be considered corruption, especially the use of the media by them as weapons against the opposition. Misuse of the tools of the state to control and reinforce its control is corruption. Either you understand this, or please go grow a brain or two. Seems that mass of grey matter isn't enough for you to comprehend abstract concepts. -
How come I check so many dictionaries I can't find the word polician? Very strange.
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Since when are politicians are to be trusted? How a politician rises to the top depends on how well he covers up his excesses.Originally posted by Gazelle:And which polician in this world is not corrupted based on your definition? The fact that you can dare suggest a politician is incorruptible just shows that you are one of those non-discerning citizens who are better off not voting since you are more likely to vote in a politician who would plunder the state treasury.
This is like saying Greed is not a Human excess. -
And which polician in this world is not corrupted based on your definition?
We are talking about local politicians, not other countries' politicians. -
If thats is true, then how would you rank the corruption level of local politicians to those overseas?Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Since when are politicians are to be trusted? How a politician rises to the top depends on how well he covers up his excesses. The fact that you can dare suggest a politician is incorruptible just shows that you are one of those non-discerning citizens who are better off not voting since you are more likely to vote in a politician who would plunder the state treasury.
This is like saying Greed is not a Human excess. -
If thats is true, then how would you rank the corruption level of local politicians to those overseas?
This is quite hard to do since we must find a common way to define corrupt activities and how to measure it.
There is also a lack of data on certain areas of government activities, due to secrecy laws.
But I think we can debate whether the PAP regime has abused its power via ISA and detention without trial. -
Why the heck do I care about foreign politicians? What? So you can justify your racist tendencies?Originally posted by Gazelle:If thats is true, then how would you rank the corruption level of local politicians to those overseas?