ERP works like magic!
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Hi,
Does ERP work?
What is it?
What does it do?
1. Tax road usage? Is there no Road tax already? double tax?
2. Solve congestion? Ease congestion? Give u a better driving experience?
3. a Painful decision for your own good?
So what the ^&%$# does it do?
You the People have any %#@#@ thing to say?
No? I take that as acceptance, even approval?
To help the majority understand my point, consider this:
1. Assumption : ERP is good and effective. It helps ease congestion and gives you a greater more enjoyable driving experience.
2. So, good, you implement it everywhere. Extend the ERP reach. All roads get ERP starting from the time you exit your estate onto the main road, since people accept it that it works.
3. You charge S$1 more. extend the hours to cover 9 to 5 and 5 to 9.
What would be the effect?
1. No more traffic congestion? People deterred to drive to work and just shutdown their car having paid S$40K-200K? No need to drive to work? No need to use it for groceries? No need to send kids to school? Wife to work? So, they rather place their car in the carpark and let it rot? Taxi need not ply? Transport trucks and cars need not operate and transport companies shutdown? Car makers close shop as no one wants new car? Toyota, Nissan, Mitshubitshi exit singapore? thousands car sales men/women jobless? 2nd hand car dealers bankrupt? COE only $1?
2. Life goes on, people kpkb but LL, no choice, life must go on, show must go on, tax increase but LL still pay and pay until they kb but accept their fate. Thus, traffic congestion continues as it was before since all roads are ERP'd. After a year, People memory get alzheimers. Like it never happened. All in your imagination.
Which scenario would it be?
Why the world only singapore has ERP (maybe some roads on taiwan) ?
USA so many jam, why they not so smart to implement? They think it will not work due to above assumption scenarios?
Is it not just a form of additional road tax?
I am as ignorant as many singaporeans. Just as naive as them. So, let me know your views. What is your say?
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It is good for the rich as it will discourage the poor/er to a certain extent. You don;t get it because you are not in the super rich category...
This is government for the rich and if we have free and fair elections (the whole system, not just on election day), they would have been booted out as there are more poor/average people than rich people. -
One thing they didn't notice is the jams ERP has caused to all the other so called "detours".
Yesterday i tried to avoid the CTE ERP at 6pm but then ended up getting stuck along bendemeer for 1 hour.
And yes. While in the jam, I question the existence of ERP too. I mean the amount of traffic/ vehicles are the same. They either use the roads that have ERP or they use an alternate route. Say before ERP, 60% of the vehicles are on Expressways, 40% on the alternate road. During ERP, 70% on the minor roads and 30% on expressways. What is the point of this? Why would they want more cars to travel on minor roads (2 lanes) when expressways have 4 lanes?
Imho, it doesn't solve problems. ERP only sweeps the dirt under the rug by boasting that it increases the vehicle travelling speed on expressways by 15-20%. What about those other roads that have travelling speeds reduced by 50-70%? -
If you are the rich, you will not detour. You will simply pay and hope that they raise it even higher so that even more will detour. One day you will start to see differentiated ERP, that is some lanes will cost more than others in the expressway itself if people continue to vote in dictators because of the fear the dictators has put in their hearts.
Therefore the proposal below, I think, is still the best all things considered.
The way to make PAP accountable without getting rid of them
This proposal is so powerful until people actually warn me that I might have police reports made against me for making such a proposal.
Promote it if you want a fairer system in Singapore! -
I am afraid that is a very narrow minded view of the situation.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:It is good for the rich as it will discourage the poor/er to a certain extent. You don;t get it because you are not in the super rich category...
This is government for the rich and if we have free and fair elections (the whole system, not just on election day), they would have been booted out as there are more poor/average people than rich people.
My question to you is, if cars are as cheap as in Malaysia, do you think Singapore island can accomodate the increase on veh population?
Singapore already has 4.62km of road per 1kmsq, do you think we can accomodate more?
Have you ever wonder why Singapore is spending so much money to improve the quality of our public transport? -
The country is congested, and these people still have the cheek to propose population of 4m to 6.5m. You are having politician that care for more profit or for the citizens' happiness? Think about it.
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Originally posted by (human):The country is congested, and these people still have the cheek to propose population of 4m to 6.5m. You are having politician that care for more profit or for the citizens' happiness? Think about it. or just plain stupid....
can't be stupid lah... just greedy for even bigger pay increases... -
the thing is, esp for CTE congestion problem, ERP does not seems to solve the problem!Originally posted by Gazelle:I am afraid that is a very narrow minded view of the situation.
My question to you is, if cars are as cheap as in Malaysia, do you think Singapore island can accomodate the increase on veh population?
Singapore already has 4.62km of road per 1kmsq, do you think we can accomodate more?
Have you ever wonder why Singapore is spending so much money to improve the quality of our public transport? -
ERP is for the generation of profits lah.
Since when was it about making the roads clear of congestion? -
all they need to do is reduce the number of cars on the road.
coe and erp are just excuses to make money. -
I dont deny they are revenue for the government, but to simply reduce the no. of cars on the road, this will lead to a sky high car price as people will be trading used car to make profit.Originally posted by dragg:all they need to do is reduce the number of cars on the road.
coe and erp are just excuses to make money.
And who's car should we remove from the road? -
so Gazelle, what is your suggestion to solve this problem?Originally posted by Gazelle:I dont deny they are revenue for the government, but to simply reduce the no. of cars on the road, this will lead to a sky high car price as people will be trading used car to make profit.
And who's car should we remove from the road? -
take public transport.Originally posted by hiphop2009:so Gazelle, what is your suggestion to solve this problem? -
other than that?Originally posted by Gazelle:take public transport.
how are u going to convince pple to take pubilc transport? -
ERP will not solve the road congestion problem. The COE does. The solution is simple: the government must stop listening to the whiners who want to own private cars. Limit the COEs, allow the price of the COE for an ordinary medium-sized car to go up to 80-100k and we will see an end to road congestion.Originally posted by hiphop2009:other than that?
how are u going to convince pple to take pubilc transport?
Singaporeans want to own cars. So the government gives them more COEs and use ERP to control road usage instead. But once you buy a car, you lose more in terms of the capital investment to leave it at home, high ERPs or not.
If you want to solve the road congestion problem, stop blaming the government for listening to Singaporeans. It is because they did listen to the aspirations of young Singaporeans in particular that we have this problem.
The government must do what is right, not what the people asks for. Which father will give a child a snake because he asks for one? -
When they keep increasing the cost of public transport and make the difference between car ownership costs and public transport cost both exceedingly ridiculous.Originally posted by hiphop2009:other than that?
how are u going to convince pple to take pubilc transport? -
quite true.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:ERP will not solve the road congestion problem. The COE does. The solution is simple: the government must stop listening to the whiners who want to own private cars. Limit the COEs, allow the price of the COE for an ordinary medium-sized car to go up to 80-100k and we will see an end to road congestion.
Singaporeans want to own cars. So the government gives them more COEs and use ERP to control road usage instead. But once you buy a car, you lose more in terms of the capital investment to leave it at home, high ERPs or not.
If you want to solve the road congestion problem, stop blaming the government for listening to Singaporeans. It is because they did listen to the aspirations of young Singaporeans in particular that we have this problem.
The government must do what is right, not what the people asks for. Which father will give a child a snake because he asks for one?
but singapore govt prefers COE prices to rise or fal according to market.
80k to 100k for a medium car COE? If lets say this happens, i expect this forum's rating to spike.
Maybe one good example will be, my dad didnt buy a car because of COE, COE arent cheap. -
No, no, now MM Lee said Singapore population unlikely to touch 6.5m.Originally posted by (human):The country is congested, and these people still have the cheek to propose population of 4m to 6.5m. You are having politician that care for more profit or for the citizens' happiness? Think about it.
He said that while S'pore wants to grow, 5.5m is more probable to reach.
I say 3.5m is more realistic. Unemployment will be greatly reduced and many other issues tied to a sudden multi-racial population explosion will be resolved. -
Reduce the number of COEs and market forces will push the COE prices up.Originally posted by hiphop2009:quite true.
but singapore govt prefers COE prices to rise or fal according to market.
80k to 100k for a medium car COE? If lets say this happens, i expect this forum's rating to spike.
Maybe one good example will be, my dad didnt buy a car because of COE, COE arent cheap. -
either they reduce vehicle or increase the amt of roads. increase erp does not help. zhi biao bu zhi ben, its a short term solution not a long term solution.
jam = no. of vehcicle / amt of road.
more veh, more jam
less road more jam
n erp doesnt even help, it only discourage ppl from using tat road. ppl still avoid tis road n drive other road.
jus another money sucking scheme in disguise.... -
ya i do noe. theory of demand and supply...Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Reduce the number of COEs and market forces will push the COE prices up.
but seriously i dun think our govt will do this... -
many things need not be priced according to market forces. Manmade forces also can have effect.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Reduce the number of COEs and market forces will push the COE prices up.
COE price can be fixed for each car category and limited to x number a month for cars not used for running a business.
So, I can see that you trying to use supply and demand theory but it is not necessary.
ERP. All we all agree, ERP is more additional tax than congestion easing solution. At best it may ease CTE a little, but still congested, and bring about more serious jams in smaller roads. There is a singrish to describe this.... it starts with and ends with an L, 4 letters only. -
Exactly. Many if not all policies does not impact the rich in as serious or big impact way as they do to the majority non-rich and poor.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:If you are the rich, you will not detour. You will simply pay and hope that they raise it even higher so that even more will detour. One day you will start to see differentiated ERP, that is some lanes will cost more than others in the expressway itself if people continue to vote in dictators because of the fear the dictators has put in their hearts.
Therefore the proposal below, I think, is still the best all things considered.
The way to make PAP accountable without getting rid of them
This proposal is so powerful until people actually warn me that I might have police reports made against me for making such a proposal.
Promote it if you want a fairer system in Singapore!
I am not surprised that bungalows hung the flag much more than HDB dwellers. There could be some correlation. When cost of living is not a problem, i.e. for the rich, they could easily agree that all policies are good. As business people or heavy investors in stocks, they dun like to rock the boat as this can introduce risk.
I am not saying this is right or wrong. I am saying this is my observation.
Despite ERP affecting the majority non-rich, the majority should continue to utter no objection. Full compliance and support. All the way. Till retirement or death. -
I am afraid that is a very narrow minded view of the situation.Originally posted by Gazelle:I am afraid that is a very narrow minded view of the situation.
My question to you is, if cars are as cheap as in Malaysia, do you think Singapore island can accomodate the increase on veh population?
Singapore already has 4.62km of road per 1kmsq, do you think we can accomodate more?
Have you ever wonder why Singapore is spending so much money to improve the quality of our public transport?
My question to you is, if cars are as cheap as in Malaysia, and COE is $1 and limited to x number a month, Singapore island certainly surely absolutely positively can limit road usage by limiting the number of road users.
Singapore ONLY has 4.62km of road per 1kmsq, we can also build more roads to ease congestion.
public transport is run by privatised and listed organizations with focus on profit and revenue is prime concern for directors and shareholders. -
So, now you admit? Too bad, you cannot prove that you are their employee.Originally posted by Gazelle:I dont deny they are revenue for the government, but to simply reduce the no. of cars on the road, this will lead to a sky high car price as people will be trading used car to make profit.
And who's car should we remove from the road?
Even if price of a subaru wrx is $1, I can make sure no congestion by issuing only 1 COE priced at $0.50. Go by 1st cum 1st served basis, democratic style. Take it or leave it. So, what talking you?
You read too much and got mesmerised by some body is it? think more objectively. Scrutinise what you read. Main thing is to have your own opinions of things and not everyone is right all of the time. this is a universal truth. Dun blindly absorb without mental dissection and swallow things and regurjitate without digestion.