ERP works like magic!
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1) If I increased my fleet from 10,000 to 20,000, I'd employ more heads of departments and overseers and of course more drivers. I'd also have to build additional depots and interchanges. And because my CEO is managing more and has more on his plate, I'll increase his pay as well. I'm not sure about the amount, but I'll increase his pay nonetheless... substantially.Originally posted by Gazelle:Sure, then can I ask you,
1) When you increase of fleet from 10 to 20, do you need to increase your CEO's pay by twice, expand your admin office staff by 2 times, build an addition office building?
2) When you have higher ridership, that will means your train will be packed with passenge most of the time, will this not increase your revenue and increase your train utilization?
You could be doing alot of marketing, but that doesnt mean you know how to operate a transportation company.
2) When you have higher ridership, because the current fleet of trains are insufficient, I have to once again buy more trains and build more depots. And perhaps more lines to reach more places because the demand for it is there. I also might have to extend work hours, some of which wont be packed but have moderate amount of people. As it is the trains are already almost 100% utilised. When we have more people and more trains.. it still will be 100% utilised. There wont be a difference in the percentage utilisation. So costs wont go down. But I built more facilities and lines?
To add to it all, because there is no competitor, there is absolutely no reason for me to reduce my costs. Because I'm a privatised company, I'm duty-bound to the shareholders to increase my share cost. I need more profits.
I do marketing strategy. If you know what that is.
Sure, I dropped out of university. But this is the real world. -
Gazelle runs a transportation company ah?
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Originally posted by maven2:
1) If I increased my fleet from 10,000 to 20,000, I'd employ more heads of departments and overseers and of course more drivers. I'd also have to build additional depots and interchanges. And because my CEO is managing more and has more on his plate, I'll increase his pay as well. I'm not sure about the amount, but I'll increase his pay nonetheless... substantially.
What you are talking about are direct and variable cost. What you dont need to increase is the fixed overhead. CEO are not operation people they can run a company with a million trains, and if the same business model is being duplicated, the cost of duplicating be is lower. CEO get paid more if the company makes more money and the share price goes up, not because the company is buying more trains. Maybe you should read up more on economy of scales to get a better understanding of what I am talking about.
2) When you have higher ridership, because the current fleet of trains are insufficient, I have to once again buy more trains and build more depots. And perhaps more lines to reach more places because the demand for it is there. I also might have to extend work hours, some of which wont be packed but have moderate amount of people. As it is the trains are already almost 100% utilised. When we have more people and more trains.. it still will be 100% utilised. There wont be a difference in the percentage utilisation. So costs wont go down. But I built more facilities and lines?
The train line in Singapore are build by our government, not the train operators, if you have more ridership, your utilisation of asset and manpower employed will be higher which mean cost will go down, not up. -
The ERP is meant to be a double edged sword. Curb traffic congestion and raise revenue.
However, the constant increases in ERP is becoming a farce. Let's look at it this way.
- Why have COEs gone down so much over the past 3 years?
To increase revenue from road tax, fines, parking and ERP.
Why earn $30,000 of COE per car over 10 years than collect millions of dollars of ERP a day, billions of parking fines and road tax a year?
Though it is true that many who could never afford a car years ago can now do so. Then what, thank the govt?
Because of lax loan policies, zero downpayment policies etc many now buy cars cashless and are then saddled with huge debts.
Not to forget that 80% of Singaporeans live in ridiculously over priced HDBs.
And who's the one taking money into the coffers? The govt....and their increase salaries blah blah blah. I'm disgusted. -
Are you sure Singapore government collect millions of ERP per day?Originally posted by Rock^Star:The ERP is meant to be a double edged sword. Curb traffic congestion and raise revenue.
However, the constant increases in ERP is becoming a farce. Let's look at it this way.
- Why have COEs gone down so much over the past 3 years?
To increase revenue from road tax, fines, parking and ERP.
Why earn $30,000 of COE per car over 10 years than collect millions of dollars of ERP a day, billions of parking fines and road tax a year?
Though it is true that many who could never afford a car years ago can now do so. Then what, thank the govt?
Because of lax loan policies, zero downpayment policies etc many now buy cars cashless and are then saddled with huge debts.
Not to forget that 80% of Singaporeans live in ridiculously over priced HDBs.
And who's the one taking money into the coffers? The govt....and their increase salaries blah blah blah. I'm disgusted. -
I would think he means a yearOriginally posted by Gazelle:Are you sure Singapore government collect millions of ERP per day?
Supposed 3000 dollars are collected everyday, it's just over a million a year. -
wah, this topic like hot potato.
scanning thru them, my observations:
1) people want to own cars but don't like to pay charges
2) very easy to make all sorts of allegations, accusations, misconceived rumours
3) very little analyses of what's the true situations
4) failure to realised our limitations
5) talks are easy, can you find a better, equitable solutions?
6) I find some of the complaints boliao, worse than my mother who has every form of prejudice abt the gahmen!
7) fail to face reality - there is no such thing as free lunch - everything must pay - if you don't pay, it is someone else who pays!
There is always a choice, you can go to/live on an island without cars and ERP! -
Well, in the literal sense of the word, yes.Originally posted by Gazelle:Are you sure Singapore government collect millions of ERP per day?
Motor vehicle taxes just increase year after year, despite the COE drop.
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/themes/economy/ess/essa151.pdf -
Nice sourceOriginally posted by Rock^Star:Well, in the literal sense of the word, yes.
Motor vehicle taxes just increase year after year, despite the COE drop.
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/themes/economy/ess/essa151.pdf -
You forgot that taxi passengers are subjected to pay ERP too and taxi is public transport.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:wah, this topic like hot potato.
scanning thru them, my observations:
1) people want to own cars but don't like to pay charges
2) very easy to make all sorts of allegations, accusations, misconceived rumours
3) very little analyses of what's the true situations
4) failure to realised our limitations
5) talks are easy, can you find a better, equitable solutions?
6) I find some of the complaints boliao, worse than my mother who has every form of prejudice abt the gahmen!
7) fail to face reality - there is no such thing as free lunch - everything must pay - if you don't pay, it is someone else who pays!
There is always a choice, you can go to/live on an island without cars and ERP! -
Just out of curiosity, Gazelle, fill me in about either your Business Background or Transportation Background. You keep saying, "Go and read". Apparently no amount of reading has given you insight into the terms "Monopoly" and "Diseconomies of Scale".
Firstly, you have no idea what Economies of Scale is and how it is subjected to Diseconmies of Scale and how monopoly is related to all of this.
It seriously is beginning to sound like you've just read these terms from somewhere and think you know all about it. Economics is a bloody science that even today is getting more complex as you quote them. The Scale was made as a very very simplified model. Which today, no self-respecting economist will tell you is as simple as that. There are a million factors that affect economies of scale.
And secondly, you don't take the words of a person who does business for a living.
All these stupid terms you quote, you know nothing about them.
You think you are a wit. And you probably are half-right. -
Actually, No. I find myself at a loss. I cannot find a better solution. At least I'm not pretending that by expanding my coffers, I'm solving the problem, when in fact, it is not doing anything to that effect and has longer term repercussions.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:wah, this topic like hot potato.
scanning thru them, my observations:
1) people want to own cars but don't like to pay charges
2) very easy to make all sorts of allegations, accusations, misconceived rumours
3) very little analyses of what's the true situations
4) failure to realised our limitations
5) talks are easy, can you find a better, equitable solutions?
6) I find some of the complaints boliao, worse than my mother who has every form of prejudice abt the gahmen!
7) fail to face reality - there is no such thing as free lunch - everything must pay - if you don't pay, it is someone else who pays!
There is always a choice, you can go to/live on an island without cars and ERP!
And we would certainly be guilty of not voicing it out when we've seen it. I'm saying, go anywhere you want. But don't go backwards. And it is indeed towards that we're headed. And because it's the best I can do given my current situation which is a result of living in "modern-day" Singapore, I'm doing it.
Instead of branding everyone who doesnt give up everything an "armchair critic". It's easy to say we are that when you don't have HDB loans to pay, car loans to pay or when your coffers are opulent with gold. Instead, to add on to the burdens, you make it very expensive to be an opposition candidate.
I'm not a critic. I give credit where its due. But this is not one of those places. -
There are many type of business in this world, you have hospitality, F&B, PR and Marketing, Mass Production, Precision Engineering, Logistic and Distribution, Chemical processing, Health Care etc. Just because you are doing business are you saying that will by default make you more knowledgable and you will know how to run all form of business?Originally posted by maven2:Just out of curiosity, Gazelle, fill me in about either your Business Background or Transportation Background. You keep saying, "Go and read". Apparently no amount of reading has given you insight into the terms "Monopoly" and "Diseconomies of Scale".
Firstly, you have no idea what Economies of Scale is and how it is subjected to Diseconmies of Scale and how monopoly is related to all of this.
It seriously is beginning to sound like you've just read these terms from somewhere and think you know all about it. Economics is a bloody science that even today is getting more complex as you quote them. The Scale was made as a very very simplified model. Which today, no self-respecting economist will tell you is as simple as that. There are a million factors that affect economies of scale.
And secondly, you don't take the words of a person who does business for a living.
All these stupid terms you quote, you know nothing about them.
You think you are a wit. And you probably are half-right.
resorting to name calling just because you are unable to back up your below statement? thats pathatic.
"This certainly is the ideal. The slight side-effect would definitely be the increase in costs for public transport as the public transport companies scramble to increase their fleet.
Greater business costs and sharp demand for public transport would cause prices to increase at least twofold, which translates to some $1-2 extra per trip. Fuel prices can also be expected to increase due to the drop in consumer demand for petrol as there are less and less car owners. The amount is a small price to pay. Estimating a daily return trip at $6, this would translate to $180 monthly per commuter. Still better than paying $700-$900+ a month for a car. " -
The motor veh taxes consist of ARF, Road Tax, Special Tax on Heavy Vehicle Engine, Passenger Seat Fee, no non-motor vehicle license.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Well, in the literal sense of the word, yes.
Motor vehicle taxes just increase year after year, despite the COE drop.
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/themes/economy/ess/essa151.pdf
Which eye of yours could see the word ERP in the above PDF file? Or are you simply making baseless assumption again. -
Wow, ur mother has the potential to become future opposition candidate!! I realli respect her. It just like when his son is being attack by other, she would protect him. Actualli, ur mother has oredi provide free lunch to u when u r born. Dun tell me u dun know. The gahmen said "there is no free lunch", u realli believe whatever they said. HaHaOriginally posted by TheGoodEarth:wah, this topic like hot potato.
scanning thru them, my observations:
6) I find some of the complaints boliao, worse than my mother who has every form of prejudice abt the gahmen!
7) fail to face reality - there is no such thing as free lunch - everything must pay - if you don't pay, it is someone else who pays!
There is always a choice, you can go to/live on an island without cars and ERP!
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I have done road survey before, in which each of us is supposed to count the number of vehicles exiting the expressway. We were supposed to record the number exiting every 15 minsOriginally posted by Gazelle:The motor veh taxes consist of ARF, Road Tax, Special Tax on Heavy Vehicle Engine, Passenger Seat Fee, no non-motor vehicle license.
Which eye of yours could see the word ERP in the above PDF file? Or are you simply making baseless assumption again.
Peak hour at CTE for my exit at AMK ave 3: around 400+ per 15 mins over a 2 hr period
This means 3200 vehicles at one exit only.
Estimate $1 per ERP and 10 exits, this means 32000 sgd with that 2 hr period collected from ERP gantry at CTE only.
This excludes calculations for morning traffic, and ERP at other areas. -
It's simple to conclude from all the posts I've read that, the government has not done an efficient job in solving congestion issues, in FACT, they couldn't solve. And therefore they implement more and MORE ERPs just to push the problem aside, and not solve it at all.
Who would want a government that doesn't know how to nip a problem in it's bud, and only create problems after problem?
Firstly, if everyone were to stop driving private cars, and take public transport, transport ridership would increase. We'd see more and more congested buses and trains everyday, and arrival times would have to be shortened. This means that the transport companies would then have to purchase MORE transport vehicles just to supply the passenger crowds.
And with that, fares would certainly increase. It seems that whatever the government does, it is all related to money.
I have to agree that, there is no long-term problem to solve this issue, and even that, ERP just creates more and more problems. A simple question, "Why the heck is ERP there in the first place?"
The government would reply, "To improve congestion issues on the EXPRESSWAYS."
What about detour roads?
Then the government starts applying ERP to every single road, meaning that if you drive from your house to the city areas, it'd probably cost you a hefty sum per day, and if you do that every day, it'd accumulate into a HUGE sum for a month.
Who is going to chalk up that much money?
Soon, people get fed-up and choose to take public transport. The government says, "YAY. We've solved the problem of congestion."
Pfft. Maybe you can ask them how it is like to take a sardine bus everyday, 24/7/365. AND, not forgetting fare increases.
You see, it all revolved around the term "MONEY" again.
I'll leave you with a question.
Is the government REALLY trying to solve problems, or are they out for another cause? -
I think the congestion problem will he inherent to Singapore.
Because we have limited road/parking space, and there is just too much cars.
That means congestion will always be with us.
The government can only shift it here and there.
They are in a dammed if you do, dammed if you don't situation.
How would the people take it, if the car population is to be reduced?
That means people who want a car, and can afford it, would not be able to own a car.
How to get employers to stagger the work hours, so that morning and evening peak hours are spread out.
Large events also contribute, anyone who owns a car wants to drive there. All of them at the same time.
Vehicle traffic is to be viewed like water moving around a duct system. It has to keep moving. But unlike water, any vehicle that stop, would be an obstruction to the flow. Thats why all vehicles must be in good repair. And also what about vehicles involved in collisions, they too present an obstruction. Then there is that input/output equation. When input is greater than output, a back up results. Traffic lights improve or retard the flow?
Is it possible for hundred of thousands of quirky drivers to drive round and round without getting off or stop?
Congestion will always be with us.
Get the government to shift it so somebody else's route. -
Why do you nitpick on little details like this which bears no significance to the issue that ERP increases year after year?Originally posted by Gazelle:The motor veh taxes consist of ARF, Road Tax, Special Tax on Heavy Vehicle Engine, Passenger Seat Fee, no non-motor vehicle license.
Which eye of yours could see the word ERP in the above PDF file? Or are you simply making baseless assumption again.
Couldn't your eyes direct you to look at the other statistics like "Others"? Perhaps the ERP is classified there. That piece of statistic is after all the operating revenue of the govt, is it not? -
Lum pa pa lan.
Reduce the COEs and increase car population.
Then raise ERP prices to curb congestion.
Any brains up there? Hello..... -
This is not call nitpick, this is to ensure that that "statistic" forumers posted here are reliable and worthy for discussion and not something that is make up base on gut feeling.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Why do you nitpick on little details like this which bears no significance to the issue that ERP increases year after year?
Couldn't your eyes direct you to look at the other statistics like "Others"? Perhaps the ERP is classified there. That piece of statistic is after all the operating revenue of the govt, is it not? -
Originally posted by Gazelle:
How certain are you that the Singapore Government does not collect millions of ERP per day ?
Are you sure Singapore government collect millions of ERP per day?
According to Official Statistics, there are 124 cars per 1000 persons in Singapore, which will give us approximately 558,000 cars for a population of 4.5m.
All cars will have to pass an ERP gantry once, if not twice a day - and assuming an average of $2, the deduction will have amounted to $1,116,000 per day.
Can you produce any of your favorite statistics to prove the Government do not collect less ? -
All the cars will have to pass an ERP gantry once a day? HAHA...Atobe, please stop making me laugh lah...plus have you consider the population of Off Peak cars in Singapore.Originally posted by Atobe:How certain are you that the Singapore Government does not collect millions of ERP per day ?
According to Official Statistics, there are 124 cars per 1000 persons in Singapore, which will give us approximately 558,000 cars for a population of 4.5m.
All cars will have to pass an ERP gantry once, if not twice a day - and assuming an average of $2, the deduction will have amounted to $1,116,000 per day.
Can you produce any of your favorite statistics to prove the Government do not collect less ?
Another failed attempt by Atobe?? -
My mom is just like so many forumers here, talk only. But she is better than opposition candidates who cannot talk. Listen, how often do you hear our opposition parliamentarians talk? And if they do, also like the boliaos here!Originally posted by sunnytv:Wow, ur mother has the potential to become future opposition candidate!! I realli respect her. It just like when his son is being attack by other, she would protect him. Actualli, ur mother has oredi provide free lunch to u when u r born. Dun tell me u dun know. The gahmen said "there is no free lunch", u realli believe whatever they said. HaHa
As for free lunch, my mom also includes breakfast and dinner. Now, I am paying back. You think I like you, just eat and talk only? -
Originally posted by royston_ang:
You forget: taxi is considered semi-private transportation. Also, goods vehicles got to pay ERP - so your durians, vege, meat, fishes, actually are also pasengers lah!
You forgot that [b]taxi passengers are subjected to pay ERP too and taxi is public transport. [/b]
Oh I forget: the dead also has to pay ERP - for the last one ride!