ERP works like magic!
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Well, that depends on Competency.Originally posted by eagle:Imagine if repeat of Nicoll Highway collaspe at the topmost expressway
Competent builders and leadership has built things like TaiPei 101, Petronas and now the China one (soon?).
Its not about cannot do. Its simply a question of Ability, Competency and Capability.
Nicoll Highway was quite challenging but in this world, money can buy even more talented people to build 10 times more complex engineering solution.
Using an accident to justify not building more is admitting incompetency.
dioboh? -
Judging from the complete lack of cohesion in your arguments, I am not surprised you only have sec 4 education. Little boy, read my posts before your respond. That's why you will fail English comprehension...you fail to read.Originally posted by reddressman:You have openly admitted that limiting the COE number can control congestion, when set to $1. This is just for illustration purpose. This is to show that COE need not be controlled by skyrocket prices. All you need is $1.
But this will mean the government takes in less money. It depends on what is the concern here.
Restricting to businesses, 1st come 1st serve, these are just my basic suggestions. Are you competent of coming up more oxford solution? I not oxfords standard lah, I only sec4 but I use commonsense to respond to your scholarstic rebuttal.
As said, COE or no COE (as in COE= $1), I can achieve the same congestion control. So, why have COE? Is there another reason?
Okay lah, since you so bombastic, I dun argue with you too much this point lah. I come up a better solution of no-COE lah then I come back to you lah. You think this is impossible?
Now, I direct your attention to ERP. As many have experienced, like the COE, with ERP or no ERP, the result is the same --->>> Traffic Jams and Congestion. Never solved.
You will and can only rebut by saying that ERP divert some traffic from CTE. Even so, there is still congestion as all experienced. Reduced some congestion but still congestion. Is this not equal to congestion? Congestion still exist. So why ERP? But in your oxfordian rebuttal, please also comment on what happens to this diverted traffic? I tell you, it flows into smaller roads creating its own congestion there. and so you may say, that is why ERP is extended further. And so my sec4 commonsense will tell you that there will be no end to this as the vicious cycle of spreading congestion to elsewhere will continue. Allow me to enlighten you that the number of cars in singapore is never reduced. It only increase every day and month. COE is low now. Cars are needed and a status symbol. How can Singaporeans not want it? 1st world standard want to cramp on bus? How glorious? share air in a congested 4x4 box with anyone with any coughing disease? lung disease? skin disease? And to this, you may argue that I should not go out in that case, to which I will say, no its not that I will not go out. I will choose to own a car for convenience and less need to cramp with people. Ok with you or not? Can approve my lifestyle or not?
Your logic on ERP is long long ago defeated. Give it a rest. And all these points did not come from me alone. So many forummers have given the same.
Pitty you having a job like this to counter to so many strong rebuttals and all you can do out of desperation is to use your mama to douse the fire? Good try but no use. I would rather listen to the Real reasons given for implementing the ERP than to accept that it reduces congestion. I not primary school pass only leh. I sec 4 ok.
Since when in this thread have I defended the ERP? As I have said, the ERP will not solve the congestion problem, only the COE does. The ERP only ameliorates the problem by diverting traffic to less congested routes. It will not help if almost all the roads are congested because of the large car population.
The government should not have listened to the whiners who want to own private cars. Drastically reduce the number of COEs and allow the prices of cars to skyrocket. That will curb the demand. In a few years' time, with the completion of public transport infrastructure projects like the Circle Line, the road congestion will ease. -
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Who are you to make this bold prediction?
The government should not have listened to the whiners who want to own private cars. Drastically reduce the number of COEs and allow the prices of cars to skyrocket. That will curb the demand. In a few years' time, with the completion of public transport infrastructure projects like the Circle Line, [b]the road congestion will ease.
[/b]
On behalf of who?
Ease congestion? ERP also eased congestion what, but only a little. And still congestion.
Congestion must be solved, eased and still congestion = congestion.
Which scenario are you promising?
And who are you to make the promise? -
Dear Rock^Star
Let me try to understand your updates.
1) There is no mandatory 20% down-payment. You got it wrong. What it meant was, banks/finance companies were not allowed to loan more than 80% of car price. That means would-be car-buyers got to cough out 20% cash which they can also 'borrow' from other sources.
2) I don't have to read all your exchanges with Gazelle to know that there is no linkage. It just don't make any sense.
3) Again, another linkage don't make sense - compulsory annuity.
4) Controlling car population - is not an easy task as you might think. There has to be a balance between people's desire to own cars, and the space available to build roads. So, all kinds of schemes have been tried. While some has the desired effects, others don't. For a long time, there was this gripe about COE. Now, it is ERP. I am sure, the last word about car ownership has yet to be spoken.
5) Every individual will be affected by any public policy - I don't use the term PAP policy or gahmen policy. Some are more affected than others. As a result you will see those badly afffected are not happy while others are happy there is such a public policy.
6) Perhaps, you shd tell us what your gripe is all about?
Is it easy loan?
Is it too many cars?
Is it car-owners have to pay and pay?
Is it road congestions?
Is it PAP?
Is it Gazelle? -
Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:Dear Rock^Star
Let me try to understand your updates.
1) There is no mandatory 20% down-payment. You got it wrong. What it meant was, banks/finance companies were not allowed to loan more than 80% of car price. That means would-be car-buyers got to cough out 20% cash which they can also 'borrow' from other sources.
I reiterate: it was a mandatory downpayment. Go on and dispute me for I shall slam the truth on you anyway. Besides, what you mentioned above was what I meant, is it not? Perhaps I should have added the word 'minimum' and that better clarifies. If one can pay more, why just downpay at only 20%, right? Duh.
And I have just realised the figure is not 20%, I make the error and you follow suit? Obviously, your research is inadequate.
While there is no stopping those who take loans to make the downpayment, this ruling acted as a deterrent to many who cannot afford yet desire to own a car. Go figure.
2) I don't have to read all your exchanges with Gazelle to know that there is no linkage. It just don't make any sense.
3) Again, another linkage don't make sense - compulsory annuity.
All I can say is those who don't have much sense, fail to see sense.
4) Controlling car population - is not an easy task as you might think. There has to be a balance between people's desire to own cars, and the space available to build roads. So, all kinds of schemes have been tried. While some has the desired effects, others don't. For a long time, there was this gripe about COE. Now, it is ERP. I am sure, the last word about car ownership has yet to be spoken.
Nobody said it was easy. There are tens of thousands of cars out there.
5) Every individual will be affected by any public policy - I don't use the term PAP policy or gahmen policy. Some are more affected than others. As a result you will see those badly afffected are not happy while others are happy there is such a public policy.
6) Perhaps, you shd tell us what your gripe is all about?
Is it easy loan?
Is it too many cars?
Is it car-owners have to pay and pay?
Is it road congestions?
Is it PAP?
Is it Gazelle?
Too many have huge loans to pay off. We already live in a country where public housing is arguably the most expensive in the world. Mah still refuses to disclose its costs for fear that prices would nosedive. No wonder Singaporeans are listed as the highest savers in the world in an AXA survey but have little in retirement. Just look at reports of how many Singaporeans have met the minimum sum at age 55.
The govt increases the car population and then raises ERP to control congestion. There is only so much that our limited roads and expressways can take. ERP only drives the congestion elsewhere. ERP was meant to ensure a smooth transition from home to work in the morning, so that businesses are unaffected. Now that evening ERPs have come in and timings extended, car owners have to pay to get home for dinner or work late in the office till ERP has ended.
Have you not noticed that the govt raises prices for the slightest of reasons to solve problems? That, surely is not the culture that Singaporeans want our younger generation to learn?
Public transport has never failed to raise fares despite its rising profits year after year. Where is the social responsibility of these govt owned companies?
The govt increase their own salaries, ignoring the voice of the people. If a salary raise is truly justifed, why is there mass discontent? And then raises the GST and proclaims to help the poor. It is also to cover the reduction in corporate taxes which ironically in Budget 2007, have already been forecasted to draw even more revenue on its own.
Perhaps, you can share with me (and fellow forumites) why you think the above and the many other perplexities created by this ruling party, as not being problems. -
I see where your gripes are now. That 20% was your take - I am not wasting my time checking every details like you do. I try to see the big picture. What you failed to realise is that the banks/finance companies have been told to tighten credit by not lending up to the full purchase price. The same goes with property, shares, etc. It is all part of lending prudence. So, I can't see what really is the issue here. My guess is that you think there are easy loans so people simply borrow to buy cars, and more cars get on the road. What the heck, if people want to buy cars, aeroplanes, houses, shares, mistresses, cigarettes - that's they wishes. They have not been forced to take huge loans - you get that???
As for increase in ERP, that shows its effectiveness is not there, so simple method is to increase the charges and extend the hours of operations. I think you will do the same if you are the person in charge of easing the congestion. Let us hear your 'updated' ideas as to how to ease congestion. I supposed you might tell everyone to save, not to borrow and walk?
As for your other gripes, try to be focused, else there is no end to your linkages - to election, to housing, to ministerial pays, to what next??????
Better you tell us exactly what are your gripes instead of whinning and making linkages. -
Curiously; will ERP work when the targetted 6.5 million population is achieved?
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Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:I see where your gripes are now. That 20% was your take - I am not wasting my time checking every details like you do. I try to see the big picture.
My take? and you stupidly followed without verification. Now, you do a U-turn and sidestep. You learnt that in school? Alright. Never underestimate the importance of details because they form the big picture. Yours must be a big picture with a lot of holes then.
What you failed to realise is that the banks/finance companies have been told to tighten credit by not lending up to the full purchase price. The same goes with property, shares, etc. It is all part of lending prudence.
Lending prudence, I see. So what happened to that rule now? I reiterate once again: The minimum downpayment rule was one of the ways to control the car population.
So, I can't see what really is the issue here. My guess is that you think there are easy loans so people simply borrow to buy cars, and more cars get on the road.
Of course. COE quotas have increased. Car population increase is then catalysed by easy loans. Have you seen people with sub $2,000 monthly pay buy WRXs? That is just one example out of many. Something tells me that you don't a car, hence you don't know.
What the heck, if people want to buy cars, aeroplanes, houses, shares, mistresses, cigarettes - that's they wishes. They have not been forced to take huge loans - you get that???
Their wishes? Then have no laws for rape and let all men fulfill their sexual desires. The govt has a social responsibility, otherwise why do you think the govt is worried about our retirement.
As for increase in ERP, that shows its effectiveness is not there, so simple method is to increase the charges and extend the hours of operations. I think you will do the same if you are the person in charge of easing the congestion. Let us hear your 'updated' ideas as to how to ease congestion. I supposed you might tell everyone to save, not to borrow and walk?
Raise and raise, when will it ever end. Just limit the car population via COE quota and stricter credit rulings. Roads will be less congested and people are not saddled with huge debts. It is as simple a solution as raising ERP prices.
As for your other gripes, try to be focused, else there is no end to your linkages - to election, to housing, to ministerial pays, to what next??????
Better you tell us exactly what are your gripes instead of whinning and making linkages.
You asked me for my "gripes" and here I show you, yet you refuse to accept it. The govt always raises prices to solve problems. This ERP thing is just one part of this big picture. HDB prices, ministerial pay and public transport are just the other parts of it. If you refuse to link them together due to your tunnel vision, so be it. I am not trying to force feed you to accept my first sentence in this paragraph. Perhaps you know zilch about what I am even talking, therefore the attempt to deflect. -
On a sidenote, TheGoodEarth, you mentioned that Low and Slyvia of WP are "boliao", obviously you know little about them.
Have you read about them yet? -
Our population is growing like that of a developing nation.Originally posted by HyperFocal:Curiously; will ERP work when the targetted 6.5 million population is achieved?
Going by the current trend, ERP prices by that time will be sky high. -
Originally posted by Rock^Star:
hahaha, I don't evade. But I can't be attending to your every detail and gripes. Again the big picture. And without doubt you jumped to conclusion. What makes you think I don't own a car? And do you?
You asked me for my "gripes" and here I show you, yet you refuse to accept it. The govt always raises prices to solve problems. This ERP thing is just one part of this big picture. HDB prices, ministerial pay and public transport are just the other parts of it. If you refuse to link them together due to your tunnel vision, so be it. I am not trying to force feed you to accept my first sentence in this paragraph. Perhaps you know zilch about what I am even talking, therefore the attempt to deflect.
Your assertions don't make any sense. Simply condemning the authorities for raising this and that is very easy. A fool can do better than you. You have not answered my question of how to solve the congestion issue. Your simple take (or stupidity since you came up with 20%) was just have a compulsory down-payment, and viola, the traffic will flow as smooth as silk!
You have a penchant for linkages. That seems to be your gripe. So, if you failed your exam, it must be the quota system! Need I say more? -
Minimum income to purchase cars else pay fully in cash ?
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I knew of someone who earned $1900 and spent $1600 on his car. I questioned his intelligence and he said that the car was his passion. I'm sure that there are many like him around. Think a salary floor would help these people and partly reduce vehicles on the road.
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If you don't think my suggestion is that straightforward, suit yourself. Too bad you are just another troll who sweeps arguments under the carpet.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:hahaha, I don't evade. But I can't be attending to your every detail and gripes. Again the big picture. And without doubt you jumped to conclusion. What makes you think I don't own a car? And do you?
Your assertions don't make any sense. Simply condemning the authorities for raising this and that is very easy. A fool can do better than you. You have not answered my question of how to solve the congestion issue. Your simple take (or stupidity since you came up with 20%) was just have a compulsory down-payment, and viola, the traffic will flow as smooth as silk!
You have a penchant for linkages. That seems to be your gripe. So, if you failed your exam, it must be the quota system! Need I say more?
You must be a real stubborn person in real life, refusing to buckle even when the going gets tough. Well, gladly take that as a compliment.
Anyway, kindly reply if:
1) you have read up about Low and Slyvia since you say they are "bo liao"
2) you have also gone through my questions posed to you on annuities in the thread by mitzzkai
I would like to hear you opinion. Much appreciated.
Btw, I don't own a car. Can't afford to. If you really do own a car, then your stance on ERP is incoherent and atrocious. Well, at least that was the impression I got. -
Originally posted by Rock^Star:If you don't think my suggestion is that straightforward, suit yourself. Too bad you are just another troll who sweeps arguments under the carpet.
Hahaha, sweeping my rebuttal to suit yourself. No need to troll lah, it is so easy to see where your flawed reasonings are.
You must be a real stubborn person in real life, refusing to buckle even when the going gets tough. Well, gladly take that as a compliment.
Aah, just bcos you can't rebutt arguments you start to project.
Anyway, kindly reply if:
1) you have read up about Low and Slyvia since you say they are "bo liao"
2) you have also gone through my questions posed to you on annuities in the thread by mitzzkai
I would like to hear you opinion. Much appreciated.
1) Nothing to do with ERP. Don't follow your linkages.
2) Actually, a lot of forumers have already covered the ground. Lately, newspapers have carried good articles on that.
Btw, I don't own a car. Can't afford to. If you really do own a car, then your stance on ERP is incoherent and atrocious. Well, at least that was the impression I got.
To you it may be incoherent and atrocious. I didn't make any stance on ERP. I was putting you straight. -
My advice is: if you don't know what waters you are venturing into, just shut the fcuk up.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:1) Nothing to do with ERP. Don't follow your linkages.
2) Actually, a lot of forumers have already covered the ground. Lately, newspapers have carried good articles on that.
If you want to debate, back it up. Simple as that.
"Linkages" (as you claimed) aside, you have no idea how to answer me. I definitely, positively and absolutely assure you that.
You will be judged not by me but by the many forumites here. -
http://sg.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGk5eEIOVG45AAklYj4gt.;_ylu=X3oDMTE5dHYzY2owBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNwRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA1NHQzAwMV8xBGwDV1Mx/SIG=125ghmvt2/EXP=1189507588/**http%3A//www.aas.com.sg/features/archive/f0404a.htm
I came across this site years ago when I bought my first car. The below article was published in "The Highway", a magazine closely linked with the Automoblie Association of Singapore.
Check it out.
The things to know about your car loan
Last year the controls on car finance schemes were liberalised - the MAS relinquished their responsibility to regulate car loans to the finance companies, and basically allowed the banks and finance companies to set their own standards. All of a sudden, 7-year loans were stretched to 10, and "zero down payment" replaced the formerly mandatory 30 percent deposit.
It used to be that in order to pay the 30 percent down for a car that costs $70,000, which works out to be $21,000, one would either have struck the lottery, or have an existing car to scrap. This meant that car ownership was kept within a very privileged circle, and it was almost impossible for someone who does not already own a car, to a buy a new one.
This liberalisation of car finance schemes changed all that, opening up the dream of car ownership to almost anyone who had a steady job, and was approved by the finance company.
While zero deposit and 10-year financing allows for attractive and affordable monthly repayments, it also means that at the end of the day, if one adds up all the interest payments, one is paying a lot more for the car than if one had a higher -
Did you read above that car ownership was restricted within a privileged circle? Due to the mandatory downpayment.
Yearly COE quotas were also lower than today due to the high prices and lower demand. This system worked fine and we did not have the many jams that we see on our roads today.
While there's no stopping Singaporeans from taking other loans to cover these car downpayments, it will also make the individual think twice before he commits himself like this. Who in his right mind, would take a loan to service a $1500 per month instalment if it is such that he has to even take a loan from elsewhere to cover the high deposit?
Did you also read that the overall payment on a ten years loan without downpayment is higher than a 7 years loan that has a downpayment?
The govt should be concerned that these people who buy their cars....do they have enough for retirement? As 85% of Singaporeans stay in HDBs, if flats were not priced so high, then it may still be alright.
Do you see the link? -
ERP worked like magic.
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Does Gazelle / Oxford_Mushroom / Othello_Red / TheGoodEarth
know if , in this world, there is actually someone invented the solution to get rid of traffic congestion?
Solution : it is a word that means "the successful action of solving a problem".
Which solution exists in this world to solve traffic congestion problem?
Not just easing the problem. Solving the problem. -
solving=> multi storeyed expresswaysOriginally posted by reddressman:Does Gazelle / Oxford_Mushroom / Othello_Red / TheGoodEarth
know if , in this world, there is actually someone invented the solution to get rid of traffic congestion?
Solution : it is a word that means "the successful action of solving a problem".
Which solution exists in this world to solve traffic congestion problem?
Not just easing the problem. Solving the problem. Singapore style
I would guess Gazelle would not reply to your question