PROTEST AGAINST COMPULSORY ANNUITY
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Thats why it is unlikely the government would do such a thing. I wouldn't say that compulsory annuity is absolutely necessary though. To add on, i don't think its healthy to have the "don't like it go elsewhere mentality".Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Only 40% of working Singaporeans pay income tax as it is. The top income earners are already shouldering a disproportionate amount of the financial burden for the nation. Raising personal income tax will hit the middle class only. The very wealthy and those with skills that are highly sought after can easily uproot and move to Hong Kong, where the income tax is lower.
Compulsory annuity is absolutely necessary to ensure that those who live into the eighties and have little savings will continue to have a decent lifestyle. The nation's interest is more important than personal rights. If people don't like it here, they are free to go elsewhere.
Go to Norway and they will slap on you up to 60% income tax...and you still think it's your money?
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I know of at least 1 NUS professor who came up with a paper addressing the aging population issue without touching the CPF. He was then called in by the CPF board and told not to publish his paper anywhere and also to cancel his interview with NWSJ.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Only 40% of working Singaporeans pay income tax as it is. The top income earners are already shouldering a disproportionate amount of the financial burden for the nation. Raising personal income tax will hit the middle class only. The very wealthy and those with skills that are highly sought after can easily uproot and move to Hong Kong, where the income tax is lower.
Compulsory annuity is absolutely necessary to ensure that those who live into the eighties and have little savings will continue to have a decent lifestyle. The nation's interest is more important than personal rights. If people don't like it here, they are free to go elsewhere.
Go to Norway and they will slap on you up to 60% income tax...and you still think it's your money?
Just citing an example. Point is, that there are other solutions available. And yes, CPF isn't Tax, so its my money, hence my own choice or how it is spent. Come up with something else, just leave my CPF alone. And If I so chose not to exercise a right, again, its my prerogative. -
Yup, I think its not the government's stand either.Originally posted by kramnave:To add on, i don't think its healthy to have the "don't like it go elsewhere mentality". -
You get to see this sort of "don't like it go elsewhere mentality" in every forum. Without names mentioned, we know who are those who love to use this to tell people off. It is our prerogative to decide to stay or to leave, there is no need to tell us so.Originally posted by kramnave:Thats why it is unlikely the government would do such a thing. I wouldn't say that compulsory annuity is absolutely necessary though. To add on, i don't think its healthy to have the "don't like it go elsewhere mentality". -
Frankly speaking, CPF, ERP , COE systems are schemes developed by people of quite impressive resumes.
But it fail to impress me. to be fairer, it impress me almost but not quite.
Thus, I believe better solutions are possible.
It need not be just better, it has to be effective and really works beyond reasonable doubt. So much so, every citizen will give a standing ovation.
So, unfortunately, with all due respect, I hope to see changes and not just that but real improvements. I would not object to overhaul. -
Frankly, it's a catch-22, and quite a nice idea.Originally posted by reddressman:Every saturday, I and friends go there shopping. So, Is there a law saying on Saturdays, near Ctrpoint, no one is legally allowed to wear anything Black?
Must hair also not be black?
As long as no CSJ stewpidity, I think shoppers can still go to CtrPoint right ? For shopping.
But I am concerned they will think wrongly like misinterprete I go there in support of the call. I am going there to shop only. To support economy. And If on that day, my shirt that is available is black, what can i do?
Hope they dun harrass me and friends lor. Sercarly angmor / china / india tourists dunno and proud proud wear black how?
i so scared leh. I must not say I support or not the wear black campaign. Animals will report to their leaders. I scared , very the scared.
Why should we have to live in fear just because we are expressing our opinions peacefully? If we have to, then something is wrong and has to be rectified.
This does not contribute to Singapore being a strong nation and a confident, powerful Republic. -
Didn't a Mr Leong Sze Hian also give us an alternative?Originally posted by Jontst78:I know of at least 1 NUS professor who came up with a paper addressing the aging population issue without touching the CPF. He was then called in by the CPF board and told not to publish his paper anywhere and also to cancel his interview with NWSJ.
<By Leong Sze Hian
Posted by theonlinecitizen on August 29th, 2007
I refer to the article “Flexible, basic and cheap annuity scheme” (Today, Aug 27).
Instead of spending the $750 million a year to pay the additional 1 per cent interest on the first $20,000 of the CPF Ordinary Account, and $40,000 of the Special, Medisave and Retirement accounts, growing these sums at say 5 per cent interest will accumulate to $67.7 billion in 2042 (the first year that the compulsory annuity will start at age 85, for those who are below 50 years old now).
This amount can at 5 per cent interest provide $300 a month from age 85 to 100, for 1.79 million Singaporeans.
By age 100, about 99.9 per cent would have died.
In fact, as many will die as they grow older, beyond age 85, more than 1.79 million people can receive the $300 life annuity. >>
And Mr Leong isn't any tunnel-visioned spin doctor but an authority in finance. His credentials are as follows:
Leong Sze Hian has 5 degrees and 13 professional qualifications. A Wharton Fellow, alumnus of Harvard University and the United Nations University International Leadership Academy, he has served as Honorary Consul of Jamaica, President of the Society of Financial Service Professionals, Representative of the Inter-American Economic Council, Chairman of the Institute of Administrative Management, and founding Advisor to the Financial Planning Association of Indonesia. He has been invited to speak more than 100 times in over 15 countries on 5 continents, authored 3 books and quoted over 700 times in the media. -
ru xiang sui shu, ru gang sui wan....if you choose to live here, abide by the rules and regulations of the majority. Once again, the national interest must come before individual rights. If you exercise your prerogative to stay, you follow the dictates of the majority.Originally posted by qlqq9:You get to see this sort of "don't like it go elsewhere mentality" in every forum. Without names mentioned, we know who are those who love to use this to tell people off. It is our prerogative to decide to stay or to leave, there is no need to tell us so. -
Why?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Once again, the national interest must come before individual rights. -
NPNT NPNT NPNT NPNT NPNT NPNT NPNT NPNT NPNT NPNT NPNT NPNTOriginally posted by Jontst78:I know of at least 1 NUS professor who came up with a paper addressing the aging population issue without touching the CPF. He was then called in by the CPF board and told not to publish his paper anywhere and also to cancel his interview with NWSJ.
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Yeah, quit the EDMW virus wank..please.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:NPNT NPNT NPNT NPNT NPNT NPNT NPNT NPNT NPNT NPNT NPNT NPNT
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In the east was a little red dot,
A one-man-one-vote democracy,
Men were anointed leaders,
To fight for justice and equity,
To serve fellow citizens with humility,
Alas men once given opportunity,
Became haughty and **@#ey,
Obsessed with self called talents,
Legalistically they tweaked all laws,
Pushing bills through parliament,
To prevent citizens from speaking,
Or gathering in 5 without permit,
Paid themselves the highest salaries,
Not by contract of appointment,
But by writing their own pay cheques,
Of amount liken to winning lottery prizes.
Large enough said to prevent corruptions,
Surpassed president's of United States,
Bonuses, life-long fees, director fees not enough,
Quietly double pay for working while retiring,
They tax, double tax and back-charge costs,
Made bogey of medicare and facilities
Hoarded taxes for reserve to claim success,
By farming them out to private entities
Devised to charge fees by profiteering.
From taxes and assets like land already paid,
Billions of unspent taxes became surpluses,
Used to buy votes with election goodies,
Not satisfied with one-man-one-vote process,
Claimed it will cause freak election,
So tweaked the one-man-one-vote into GRC,
Which leaders said will provide racial harmony,
In actual fact it was a monopoly,
To prevent any one from election in single wards,
To pacify peasants and potential rebel,
Election goodies were given like lift upgrade,
Upgrade however is for precinct that voted ruling party,
After GRC walkover goodies were all taken back,
With GST increases and raising of all fees,
Public housing on people's owned lands,
Sold to citizens at market rate called subsidy,
Forever more taxes, fees and hypocrisy,
Government going full-time into business,
That is how leaders keep charging higher fees,
From banking to coffins that drive up prices,
Newspaper men afraid to tell the truths,
For fears of defamation or losing licence,
Reported good news but hushed on shin corp or Barclay,
Proclaimed themselves as world-class leaders,
But denied all problems as honest mistakes,
Losses deemed long-term investments,
Recessions caused by failed restructuring,
Blamed on external circumstances,
Or people's failure to upgrade,
Against oath, resorted to gambling resort,
Mass young unemployed blamed on globalization,
Cost of living risen to first world,
Yet wages of citizens dropped to the third,
Propaganda by counter-insurgency agents,
Spread vile about democracy or red herrings,
Dished out to distract brow-beated citizens,
Retirement funds of citizens saved by their own toils,
Frozen to 85 due to bankrupting by shin corp loss
Annuities traded for CPF nestegg till last breath,
Self-possessed leaders full of talents,
Judge for yourself denizen of this little red dot,
Is it a first world government as many were told,
With orderly police city and no robber,
Or is it one hell of bloody stain,
Oozed from corpses below MRT bigotry slain. -
Why is there a need for lawyers?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:ru xiang sui shu, ru gang sui wan....if you choose to live here, abide by the rules and regulations of the majority. Once again, the national interest must come before individual rights. If you exercise your prerogative to stay, you follow the dictates of the majority.
Why is there a need for elections?
You tell me lah. -
CPF was a simple forced savings scheme to ensure that workers can have a comfortable retirement. It should have worked if it was left alone.Originally posted by pearlie27:Didn't a Mr Leong Sze Hian also give us an alternative?
<By Leong Sze Hian
Posted by theonlinecitizen on August 29th, 2007
I refer to the article “Flexible, basic and cheap annuity scheme” (Today, Aug 27).
Instead of spending the $750 million a year to pay the additional 1 per cent interest on the first $20,000 of the CPF Ordinary Account, and $40,000 of the Special, Medisave and Retirement accounts, growing these sums at say 5 per cent interest will accumulate to $67.7 billion in 2042 (the first year that the compulsory annuity will start at age 85, for those who are below 50 years old now).
This amount can at 5 per cent interest provide $300 a month from age 85 to 100, for 1.79 million Singaporeans.
By age 100, about 99.9 per cent would have died.
In fact, as many will die as they grow older, beyond age 85, more than 1.79 million people can receive the $300 life annuity. >>
And Mr Leong isn't any tunnel-visioned spin doctor but an authority in finance. His credentials are as follows:
Leong Sze Hian has 5 degrees and 13 professional qualifications. A Wharton Fellow, alumnus of Harvard University and the United Nations University International Leadership Academy, he has served as Honorary Consul of Jamaica, President of the Society of Financial Service Professionals, Representative of the Inter-American Economic Council, Chairman of the Institute of Administrative Management, and founding Advisor to the Financial Planning Association of Indonesia. He has been invited to speak more than 100 times in over 15 countries on 5 continents, authored 3 books and quoted over 700 times in the media.
It was fine-tuned so many times and so mismanaged until it become so flawed that they have to resort to a compulsory annuity scheme save it from becoming a national disaster.
Even a financial consultant can offer a better alternative.
ItÂ’s a shame! -
who are the majority?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:ru xiang sui shu, ru gang sui wan....if you choose to live here, abide by the rules and regulations of the majority. Once again, the national interest must come before individual rights. If you exercise your prerogative to stay, you follow the dictates of the majority.
we are now following the ideas of a few people. -
Let him wank if he wantsOriginally posted by LazerLordz:Yeah, quit the EDMW virus wank..please.
I won't prove what I said about the NUS fellow. He has written several papers over the past 2 decades, which are available to the public with regards the CPF and singapore economy. No lightweight on economics. His papers usually subtle not hard hitting at the govt, but apparently his latest work warranted CPF intervention. Search hard enough, you'll probably find out who or narrow it down to a couple.
Then again let him wank again at the above if he enjoys it so much -
Oh I see, so you are asking people to be lackeys.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:ru xiang sui shu, ru gang sui wan....if you choose to live here, abide by the rules and regulations of the majority. Once again, the national interest must come before individual rights. If you exercise your prerogative to stay, you follow the dictates of the majority. -
it is very unlikely that a financial consultant can offer a better alternativeOriginally posted by googoomuck:CPF was a simple forced savings scheme to ensure that workers can have a comfortable retirement. It should have worked if it was left alone.
It was fine-tuned so many times and so mismanaged until it become so flawed that they have to resort to a compulsory annuity scheme save it from becoming a national disaster.
Even a financial consultant can offer a better alternative.
ItÂ’s a shame! -
I know about this issue.Originally posted by Jontst78:Let him wank if he wants
I won't prove what I said about the NUS fellow. He has written several papers over the past 2 decades, which are available to the public with regards the CPF and singapore economy. No lightweight on economics. His papers usually subtle not hard hitting at the govt, but apparently his latest work warranted CPF intervention. Search hard enough, you'll probably find out who or narrow it down to a couple.
Then again let him wank again at the above if he enjoys it so much 
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What national interest are there? That the government needs more money?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:ru xiang sui shu, ru gang sui wan....if you choose to live here, abide by the rules and regulations of the majority. Once again, the national interest must come before individual rights. If you exercise your prerogative to stay, you follow the dictates of the majority.
Who is the majority. We voted for them for the right to govern, not for the right to touch our money further. From what the PAP is doing, their 66.6% will be further eroded. I just don't like the way they try to explain their actions off. It may be good, but the way they tell us seems like saying: "Singaporeans, you are the peasants and we are the elites. We know what is best for you!" -
He is a blind follower of PAP. Don't know to consider him brilliant or stupid.Originally posted by eagle:What national interest are there? That the government needs more money?
Who is the majority. We voted for them for the right to govern, not for the right to touch our money further. From what the PAP is doing, their 66.6% will be further eroded. I just don't like the way they try to explain their actions off. It may be good, but the way they tell us seems like saying: "Singaporeans, you are the peasants and we are the elites. We know what is best for you!" -
Why so secretive? CPF is not national security. It is social security. If he can come up with a scheme to look after the old age without touching the CPF, he would be god to so many forumers whinning here, and might even win the next election. If I were him with such a genius scheme, I'll tell opposition hopefuls and wannabes during the next election!Originally posted by Jontst78:Let him wank if he wants
I won't prove what I said about the NUS fellow. He has written several papers over the past 2 decades, which are available to the public with regards the CPF and singapore economy. No lightweight on economics. His papers usually subtle not hard hitting at the govt, but apparently his latest work warranted CPF intervention. Search hard enough, you'll probably find out who or narrow it down to a couple.
Then again let him wank again at the above if he enjoys it so much -
Its original aim was a simple saving scheme that you can break the piggy back at age 55. A lot of people look forward to the magic double 55 for big windfall. While everyone is passionate about their own monies and want to touch them before going to the graves, it is a fallacy to think that many are financial-savvy. Forumers here think they can manage their monies better than experts. The truth is farther than they thought.Originally posted by googoomuck:CPF was a simple forced savings scheme to ensure that workers can have a comfortable retirement. It should have worked if it was left alone.
It was fine-tuned so many times and so mismanaged until it become so flawed that they have to resort to a compulsory annuity scheme save it from becoming a national disaster.
Even a financial consultant can offer a better alternative.
ItÂ’s a shame!
The CPF is no longer just a simple saving scheme. And the monies in there are not all tied up. You can use it for housing, investment, education and of course, to pay your medical/hospital charges. That could mean very little 'real' cash left behind. Didn't you hear this often: SGreans are asset-rich, cash poor!
But you need cash to buy 3 square meals, 4D, Toto, and to treat China dragon ladies! -
Aah, forgot this thread is about protest. Seriously, do you think the annuity scheme is socially unjust, corrupt, deplorable, useless, discriminatory, dishonest? Also, annuity is not a new invention by PAP or CPF. It has been available from insurance companies.
I read here and in other similar threads that bcos the scheme is compulsory, therefore, got to go against or protest.
Most people forgot - you already have compulsory schemes within CPF - Medisave which can be used to buy Medishield, mortgage insurance if you use CPF to buy property.
So, what is this protest all about? Some innocent people got killed, persecuted, mistreated, thrown out of the homes, etc.???? -
55 or sumthing like that was the original master plan.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:Its original aim was a simple saving scheme that you can break the piggy back at age 55. A lot of people look forward to the magic double 55 for big windfall. .....!
Now, as time passed by, new master plans , new versions released.
I wonder, this annuity thingie and cpf thingie at 65/67 will it change again?
Will many people's plans be affected once again?
I worry when people like mushroom and gazelle try to convince people that this will work even if the future is uncertain. I would read their replies with 1 bag full of salt. Very scarey so conform wan leh. So conform about future wan leh.