emigration is not easy
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fymk said he/she/it is not an ex-singaporean lar. sometimes he/she/it pretends to be an ex-singaporean. whatever. i dont give a damn.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Indigenous Australians only gained their full political right in 1967 when they were counted in population for the purpose of distribution of electoral seats. Neville Bonner (1971-1983) and Aden Ridgeway (1999-2005) are the only two indigenous Australians elected to the Australian Parliament, in history so far. There are currently no indegenous Australian in the Australian Parliament.
It was only as recent as 11 October 2007 when John Howard said that “We must recognise the distinctiveness of Indigenous identity and culture and the right of Indigenous people to preserve that heritage. The crisis of Indigenous social and cultural disintegration requires a stronger affirmation of Indigenous identity and culture as a source of dignity, self-esteem and pride." You think you know about the issue better?
Douglas Nicholls was South AustralianÂ’s government from 1/12/1976 to 30/4/1977, 5 months!! not much to say about the political right of the aboriginals, but it says a lot about their plight, doesnÂ’t it?
Are Malays the Indigenous Singaporean? Do you know that even the Malays originally came from southern china? The true indigenous peoples in Malaya are of Malayo-Polynesian origins, e.g. the Dayak, MelanauÂ…). In 1819, there were actually Malays, Chinese and some of these indigenous peoples in Singapore. The Malays in Malaysia are declared bumi by constitution, not by history.
Singapore is an immigrant society, similar to Australia. But here, although the majority are Chinese, equal rights are given to all races and religions, there are 4 official languages, and our national anthem written in Malay, a minority language, our first president was a Malay, and there have been numerous ministers and MP representing the rights of the minorities. How to compare this aspect of Singapore with Australia, of all countries? Bear in mind they have just officially abolished the White Australian Policy in 1975!
You donÂ’t know about the country you left, you also donÂ’t know about the country you call home now. Guess you have to admit that there are things youÂ’ll never know. Good try.
Stick to what you know best. -
Do you know what is a CABINET minister?Originally posted by fymk:Bearing in mind , the natives in Singapore are actually Malays and the majority in cabinet are chinese. There is actually aboriginal minister in Northern territory, Jack Ah Kit, and there are aboriginal politicians, like Neville Bonner and Aden Ridgeway. The ex Governor of South Australia, Sir Douglas Ralph Nicholls is aboriginal.
So try a lil harder. -
I wonder how many would have migrated if migration is made easier.
Who would dare say, if made easier, LESS would migrate? -
Hey Daddy!,
Do you even know the definition of racist before you even start using that term? -
To Gazelle and sghardie , Australia runs under a 2 tiered govt system - federal and state unlike Singapore. So try comparing it to USA or Canada.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Indigenous Australians only gained their full political right in 1967 when they were counted in population for the purpose of distribution of electoral seats. Neville Bonner (1971-1983) and Aden Ridgeway (1999-2005) are the only two indigenous Australians elected to the Australian Parliament, in history so far. There are currently no indegenous Australian in the Australian Parliament.
It was only as recent as 11 October 2007 when John Howard said that “We must recognise the distinctiveness of Indigenous identity and culture and the right of Indigenous people to preserve that heritage. The crisis of Indigenous social and cultural disintegration requires a stronger affirmation of Indigenous identity and culture as a source of dignity, self-esteem and pride." You think you know about the issue better?
Douglas Nicholls was South AustralianÂ’s government from 1/12/1976 to 30/4/1977, 5 months!! not much to say about the political right of the aboriginals, but it says a lot about their plight, doesnÂ’t it?
Are Malays the Indigenous Singaporean? Do you know that even the Malays originally came from southern china? The true indigenous peoples in Malaya are of Malayo-Polynesian origins, e.g. the Dayak, MelanauÂ…). In 1819, there were actually Malays, Chinese and some of these indigenous peoples in Singapore. The Malays in Malaysia are declared bumi by constitution, not by history.
Singapore is an immigrant society, similar to Australia. But here, although the majority are Chinese, equal rights are given to all races and religions, there are 4 official languages, and our national anthem written in Malay, a minority language, our first president was a Malay, and there have been numerous ministers and MP representing the rights of the minorities. How to compare this aspect of Singapore with Australia, of all countries? Bear in mind they have just officially abolished the White Australian Policy in 1975!
You donÂ’t know about the country you left, you also donÂ’t know about the country you call home now. Guess you have to admit that there are things youÂ’ll never know. Good try.
Stick to what you know best.
There is an aboriginal minister in Northern Territory before you talk out of your bottom again. http://www.nt.gov.au/ntg/chiefmin.html. Check out Marian Scymgour , MLA . Might not be in federal but she is in State government - oh ya she is STATE MINISTER. There you go Gazelle - oh the big surprise eh?
So you want to talk about their full political rights? Look at Singapore - 1965 - independence . Prior to that , the British were there making all of our great grand parents , grand parents and parents, second class citizens as long as they are non whites. Yes now if you look at it again - the migrant population now rules in majority. So in a way oddly - the migrant population also rules in Australia besides the descendents of the convict colonies , you have the people of greek , the arabs , asian ethnicity in politics - mainly in state government and some in federal parliament.
If you want to talk about the late abolishment of white australian policy, considering that Aden Ridgeway (who made Senatorship until he lost the election), Jack Ah Kit and Marian Scymgour, you would COMPARE IT apple to apple not Jackfruit to apple. Senatorship has gone to asians and people of other migrant ethnicities , like Penny Wong of South Australia.So compare it to USA who also has a similar model, Australia has made vast improvement.
As for the natives in Singapore, Malays would be considered the natives. They might have migrated downwards a few centuries ago but then again the Inuits of Canada migrated downwards from asia several centuries ago ...and they are considered natives in canada . The definition of " indigenous" aka natives - there is no universal, standard or fixed definition, but can be used about any ethnic group who inhabit the geographic region with which they have the earliest historical connection. Therefore the Malays of Temasek were the natives aka indigenous people. So what's your argument really about?
And a tidbit about the origin of the movement of Malays :The Malay people are believed to have originated in Borneo and then expanded outwards into Sumatra and later into the Malay Peninsula. These people were descendants of Austronesian-speakers who migrated from the Philippines and originally from Taiwan. The main foundation of this school of thought lies in the fact that the oldest Malay settlements have been discovered in Sumatra and not in the Malay Peninsula. This suggests an upward - south to north - migratory route. Malay culture reached its golden age during Srivijayan times. Malays praticed Buddhism, Hinduism, and their native Animism before converting to Islam in the 15th century.
Sumatra nearby but they also have artefacts found in the Malay Peninsula about 2000 years old. So that makes the Malays the ethnic people who inhabit the geograpgical region that has the earliest historical connection - they are therefore indigenous aka native to the area. Comprende?
Hey if you want to criticise, fine with me . But fact is there- they are considered indigenous aka native to Singapore really by that definitional term. Are you laying claim for the Singaporean Chinese as the indigenous natives? Try Australia - they have ancient chinese burial grounds in broome too. See if you can argue your logic there.
As well for the Singapore's constitution, all races are equal in constitution as well. So ask yourself why are there HDB quotas for how many Singaporean chinese and how many Singaporean malays and Singaporean indians can be in allocated flats? If it is absolute equality in truth, there should not be a quota allocated even not for the reason of making sure social integration happens.
And I can safely tell you - racism happens on the grassroots level, even in Singapore. In Singapore there are some blacksheep in the majority who thinks the other races are 'lower' than they are . Ever heard of people making fun of how some other person of a different ethnicity smells? Heard of the expression "ah pu nei nei", "ki ling" and "mangali"? Yup pretty much heard people using it in Singapore. Those slangs are the equivalent of "chink" (chinese) and "wog" (greek,italians, arabs of darker complexions) in Australia. Even in this forum , you have occasional idiots slinging mud on another race or people with a certain religion.
In Australia, asians don't make the majority so some Singaporean chinese think that it is all racist compared to their Singapore . Well look at it this way....racism happens everywhere to the minority groups whether one likes it or not because some pathetic loser human being decides that a different appearance should acquire some insults.
Oh wait...I am not supposed to know EVEN that much about a country I left and the country I now adopted as my home.....HAHAHAHAHAH. Shall I bring up the history of the racial riots which still make some older Singaporeans of Chinese ethnicity bitter against the Malays and vice versa? After the riots, that was when the Singaporean pledge was penned down to support unity and equality. The Sedition Act just made some blacksheep individuals go underground with their racist attitudes in Singapore. If Singapore was truly equal in terms of the attitudes towards all ethnicities and all religion, you don't need the Sedition Act at all. Try harder with your insults ...after all ...we all studied the same state sanctioned history books in Singapore. How could I not know? -
con't.
How much do you, sghardie know about the aboriginal issues since I apparently do not know about it? Did I mention that the indigenous australians are still quite clannish (they do have tribes like Yorta Yorta, Ngunawal, etc), like the Scots who are quite clannish (aka Campbells still hate the Macdonalds)? How much do you actually know about the indigenous tribes of Australia ? And how much infighting do you think is happening? Some are progressive while some argue to preserve their heritage. Some want help and some refuse it. Some want to stay in their specially allocated tribal land , some don't. So .....unless you know an indigenous australian or a few....you won't know what view they have to bring themselves up to a level playing field with Australians of migrant descendency ( aka caucasian, asian , arab etc).
I met very intelligent indigenous Australians who are actually fed up more with the infighting than the history. With most of the people looking at the past constantly , you cannot bring the future forward.
There are actually lucrative PhD scholarships in Australia specially reserved for indigenous applicants, there are jobs which are cleared under the Equal Opportunities Act ( yes surprise surprise !) to go specifically to indigenous applicants and there are alot of university scholarships reserved for indigenous applicants. What do you think drives jealous people like Pauline Hanson to speak against it all? That's affirmative action for the indigenous people if they wish to go further in their careers. Even where I work, there are specific positions that go to indigenous applicants and the indigenous australians there are ENCOURAGED to apply for it. I have had indigenous australians rank above me as well. You cannot say that Australia is not even trying to even the playing field for them at all. It is also the past experience that holds the indigenous australians back - they are scared that if they go off their tribal lands...it will get taken, they are scared that if they send their kids out , they will never return. And again as a minority group , they have to face the same thing as I do from callous individuals, so some prefer to stay in their large tribes as well as land, and do things their way.
Oh wait...I don't know that much ! hhahaha -
I've to be fair on this as I think its a double edge sword.
I was loving Singapore for almost all my life till I became a civil worker bee for 9 years, and started hating the system and things happening up there and not able to make changes.
I still love it there the people, food but the only thing that is not on my better side would be the political situation/control. Well having that said the system did bring SG forward into the 20th century with a good head start for the next 1000 years (Hopefully that long). But the control with no opposition is not a good thing. Well there is always two sides to a story or coin and things should be that way and through argument and debating problems and new implementation should then take place. If only one party is in control and they are the only one having political supremacy they would be in control forever which I think is not a bad thing if they are doing the right thing
I migrated to Canada and started my life in Canada about 6 months ago and life is sure different here compared to SG. Things are way cheaper... got a Merc 2008 C-Class for under 40k.... a 2000sq feet house under 500k almost the same price as a HDB 5 room, only difference is that I've my own garden, parking garage (and not paying season parking) all this for less than 2-3 million in SG.... Moreover, GST is 6% now and going lower next year to 5%. Whereas SG govt mentioned staying competitive with our neighbors like HK and when they pulled out SG didn't scrap the idea so it kinda bugs me on that our leaders are sometimes using their supremacy on the people sometimes. BUt for sure they did do their work alright they built nice HDB, road(the road here really suck) good transit infrastructure and SBS is something I really appreciate now.
I weight the odds and took my chance and I am thinking it is starting to paying off a little here and there. Its a lot to leave all your friends and most importantly your family all behind all at one go and hit a fresh start in a new place not knowing anyone and thing...
End of the day migrating is not for everyone, be it you are rich or just average its a decision you have to think and weigh. But to me its a thing that I have decided and going through with it. So no regrets!
A little tip though:
1. Make sure you know you would be able to find a job and ready to eat the humble pie for a couple of year unless you have lots of money.
2. Make sure you have friends or you are real socialable at least that way you should have no problem finding a roof over your head.
3. Know what juridical system they run under... basically... Innocent till proven guilty or guilty till proven innocent...
4. Save up for rainy day...
5. How is the country structured? like here is we have a federal (country) and provincial (State) and each have their own laws so have quite a bit to follow eh?
6. Taxation Laws - how much is going to the govt at the end of the day are you working your butt off to fund the govt?
7. Financial Help - Is it readily available to immigrants at ease? -
hello, hypocrite racist. who the f.uck are you? ex-singaporean or not?Originally posted by fymk:Hey Daddy!,
Do you even know the definition of racist before you even start using that term? -
Hello, troll .Originally posted by Daddy!!:hello, hypocrite racist. who the f.uck are you? ex-singaporean or not?
Don't shame the Singaporean education system. Surely the teachers who taught all of us english in Singapore will be wailing over your usage of the english language.
Are you sure you are even Singaporean? -
I wonder why many singporeans speak broken engrish.
Has this nothing to do with edication systom? -
Broken english or spelling errors are not as bad as not understanding the meaning of a simple word ,and making a fool out of oneself when using it to insult others.Originally posted by reddressman:I wonder why many singporeans speak broken engrish.
Has this nothing to do with edication systom? -
trying to impress on how much you know.....Marian Scymgour is a minister of the Northern Territory government, but Northern Territory is not even a state of Australia, it exercises similar powers as the governments of the states of Australia, by delegation of powers from the commonwealth government, rather than by any constitutional right. With a population of 209,000, (smaller than our Toa Payoh, Ang Moh Kio), with 30% indigenous Australian, they should have at least 1 representative there. Try harder.Originally posted by fymk:In Australia, asians don't make the majority so some Singaporean chinese think that it is all racist compared to their Singapore . Well look at it this way....racism happens everywhere to the minority groups whether one likes it or not because some pathetic loser human being decides that a different appearance should acquire some insults.
Oh wait...I am not supposed to know EVEN that much about a country I left and the country I now adopted as my home.....HAHAHAHAHAH. Shall I bring up the history of the racial riots which still make some older Singaporeans of Chinese ethnicity bitter against the Malays and vice versa? After the riots, that was when the Singaporean pledge was penned down to support unity and equality. The Sedition Act just made some blacksheep individuals go underground with their racist attitudes in Singapore. If Singapore was truly equal in terms of the attitudes towards all ethnicities and all religion, you don't need the Sedition Act at all. Try harder with your insults ...after all ...we all studied the same state sanctioned history books in Singapore. How could I not know?
Nobody is insulting you, you insult yourself, and apparently name calling is what you do best. -
Yes It is not a state but considered an equivalent of a state at the moment as you have put it. So therefore by that equivalence , Marian Scymgour is an equivalent to a state minister until the Commonwealth actually revokes or amend the rights to self govt. Gazelle asked for a cabinet minister of aboriginal origin - she is a cabinet minister of a Territory .Originally posted by sgdiehard:trying to impress on how much you know.....Marian Scymgour is a minister of the Northern Territory government, but Northern Territory is not even a state of Australia, it exercises similar powers as the governments of the states of Australia, by delegation of powers from the commonwealth government, rather than by any constitutional right. With a population of 209,000, (smaller than our Toa Payoh, Ang Moh Kio), with 30% indigenous Australian, they should have at least 1 representative there. Try harder.
Nobody is insulting you, you insult yourself, and apparently name calling is what you do best.
Do you want me to recite the whole constitution of Australia and how their government process work to people who are not aware of how Australia is governed ? Like how Gazelle asked about cabinet ministers ? Even some Australians get confused about it .
They might as well buy a book on the constitution and federalism of Australia then. Usually those books are about 50-300 pages long depending on details.
So how pedantic do you want to be about it?
Even if you wanted to hint at the apparent ghastliness of having only one aboriginal minister in one territory of Australia, then think about this. By comparing how great Singapore is - then ask yourself how many Malays are sitting in cabinet - Shouldn't there be more instead of one Malay minister by virtue of the population based on the ratio of ministers of ethnic groups? Especially with them making approx 0.43 million out of the 4 million? Somewhere wrong with the logic of your calculation? Like I say, don't compare a jackfruit to an apple.
If you want to insult on the basic semantics , try harder ,because you already got hit hard by the definition of native aka indigenous people in Singapore .the Singapore Constitution, Part XIII, General Provisions, Minorities and special position of Malays, section 152:
There you go. So how come you don't know that they are considered indigenous aka natives to Singapore since you actually live in Singapore since you implied that they are not indigenous.
The Government shall exercise its functions in such manner as to recognise the special position of the Malays, who are the indigenous people of Singapore, and accordingly it shall be the responsibility of the Government to protect, safeguard, support, foster and promote their political, educational, religious, economic, social and cultural interests and the Malay language.
At least I have gumption to admit to shortcutting the explanations. What about you? Apparently you fail at retorts but you are not as bad as the guy who is calling me racist without knowing which race I belong to , but just because he doesn't like what I say. Maybe you should educate him on the meaning of the word "racist" since you are one for semantics. -
touche.Originally posted by Daddy!!:hello, hypocrite racist. who the f.uck are you? ex-singaporean or not? -
A bunch of you want to stay in Singapore. Good for you.
Doesn't help if you didn't live in another place to comment negatively on racism then bring up sensationalised media pieces to show how much better Singapore is. Hearing from a friend how bad things are - don't count since everyone's experience is different. Going to a place for a holiday also don't count since good and bad can happen quickly without the redemption of the long term experience of how much more good can happen than the bad. That is why you actually have to live there for at least a year to know if you hate the country or love it. I lived more than a decade and a half in Singapore to know my future is not in it.
Doesn't help if you get angsty with people who want to migrate and who migrated . So what if an overseas Singaporean does better in another country? It will still reflect an achievement in Singapore's name. None of the overseas Singaporean can erase Singapore from their roots, even the ex-Singaporeans, it will be always there, no matter how much some of us disagree with the Singaporean govt's policies or lifestyle. For me , it stays on my curriculum vitae - where I was educated and where I was working. It cannot be erased. Some good Singaporean values still stay in us like the value of education and occasionally the kiasee kiasu attitude also helps.
Those who want to migrate to Australia/UK/USA, remember you are not the majority there anymore hence you may possibly get picked on by uneducated rednecks like your fellow minority brethen in Singapore. Don't expect everything to fall into a silver platter for you.
Going overseas means rebuilding your life from scratch and working very hard for what you want. It is a bed of roses with alot of thorns but with hard work , determination and preserverance , you can take out the thorns. For a few of us who gone out of Singapore into the world , we had our hardknocks , we pick ourselves up and move on. A migrant's life is not easy.If you want to go in with the mentality that just because you are Singaporean , you expect to be treated better, don't bother migrating. Life ain't gonna be better but worse if you don't do as the romans do and go yapping about how much better Singapore is. -
Agree completely that migration is not easy but depending on your mentality and your willingness to suffer the end labour might just be sweet.
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Australia is a constitutional Monarchy
Australia's head of state is not even seated in Australia.
Elizabeth II, the Queen of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, is Australia's Head of State. Spineless Australians, no guts to renounce on the English's influence.
So Australians are confused. "Who the hell are we?" "We are racist! Thats the best we can be !!"
Australia is England's second class. So whats the big f.uck ? -
why do you brother bother ?Originally posted by reddressman:I wonder why many singporeans speak broken engrish.
Has this nothing to do with edication systom? -
have you heard of australian whites being discriminated against by the english whites in london when the australian whites tried to work/live in london?
** shhh...shhh !! ** -
Not that I bother too much, it is just that I heard a rumor that sg edication very the solid leh. if so, why they still speaken like that?Originally posted by Daddy!!:why do you brother bother ? -
Well said...Originally posted by fymk:A bunch of you want to stay in Singapore. Good for you.
Doesn't help if you didn't live in another place to comment negatively on racism then bring up sensationalised media pieces to show how much better Singapore is. Hearing from a friend how bad things are - don't count since everyone's experience is different. Going to a place for a holiday also don't count since good and bad can happen quickly without the redemption of the long term experience of how much more good can happen than the bad. That is why you actually have to live there for at least a year to know if you hate the country or love it. I lived more than a decade and a half in Singapore to know my future is not in it.
Doesn't help if you get angsty with people who want to migrate and who migrated . So what if an overseas Singaporean does better in another country? It will still reflect an achievement in Singapore's name. None of the overseas Singaporean can erase Singapore from their roots, even the ex-Singaporeans, it will be always there, no matter how much some of us disagree with the Singaporean govt's policies or lifestyle. For me , it stays on my curriculum vitae - where I was educated and where I was working. It cannot be erased. Some good Singaporean values still stay in us like the value of education and occasionally the kiasee kiasu attitude also helps.
Those who want to migrate to Australia/UK/USA, remember you are not the majority there anymore hence you may possibly get picked on by uneducated rednecks like your fellow minority brethen in Singapore. Don't expect everything to fall into a silver platter for you.
Going overseas means rebuilding your life from scratch and working very hard for what you want. It is a bed of roses with alot of thorns but with hard work , determination and preserverance , you can take out the thorns. For a few of us who gone out of Singapore into the world , we had our hardknocks , we pick ourselves up and move on. A migrant's life is not easy.If you want to go in with the mentality that just because you are Singaporean , you expect to be treated better, don't bother migrating. Life ain't gonna be better but worse if you don't do as the romans do and go yapping about how much better Singapore is.
Anyone considering migration, already had a picture in their mind what type of life they would like to build in the resident country. And it take plenty of hardwork and failures to get there.
On the other hand people that choose to stay may prefer status quo, they also work very hard to keep up with challanges dish out by the ever changing society pace of MOTHERLAND.... -
nebermind lar. migrate to USA and learn english lor. no big deal.Originally posted by reddressman:Not that I bother too much, it is just that I heard a rumor that sg edication very the solid leh. if so, why they still speaken like that? -
Shiok right? You're lovin' it yeah?Originally posted by Daddy!!:Australia is a constitutional Monarchy
Australia's head of state is not even seated in Australia.
Elizabeth II, the Queen of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, is Australia's Head of State. Spineless Australians, no guts to renounce on the English's influence.
So Australians are confused. "Who the hell are we?" "We are racist! Thats the best we can be !!"
Australia is England's second class. So whats the big f.uck ? -
I am migrating to W .australia perth soon.
i guess i will have a smoother path because i study there b4. my wife is aussie, their family is there. My kids are duo citizenship (<3 yrs old).
nevertheless, i will miss singapore vast varity of hawker food at cheap price.
friends, relative, memories which can never migrate with me.
i know some friends who migrated but suffer from minor depression due to problems mention by fellow forumers. such as jobs expectation, culture, ppl relationship, food, money and etc. In perth, nothing is as convienient as singapore.
But my mind is made up for the better future of my kids, happiness of my wife, i am willing to sacrfice my homeland in search of another( but not necessary greener). the choice is never easy, think hard and twice. -
If you want your kids to have a fuss-free life, remember to make the choice if they are going to serve NS or not by the age of 13.Originally posted by reyes:I am migrating to W .australia perth soon.
i guess i will have a smoother path because i study there b4. my wife is aussie, their family is there. My kids are duo citizenship (<3 yrs old).
nevertheless, i will miss singapore vast varity of hawker food at cheap price.
friends, relative, memories which can never migrate with me.
i know some friends who migrated but suffer from minor depression due to problems mention by fellow forumers. such as jobs expectation, culture, ppl relationship, food, money and etc. In perth, nothing is as convienient as singapore.
But my mind is made up for the better future of my kids, happiness of my wife, i am willing to sacrfice my homeland in search of another( but not necessary greener). the choice is never easy, think hard and twice.