Reuters:Singapore's pension reform plans spark rare protest
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Hardwarezone.comOriginally posted by qlqq9:What is HWZ?
another forum of Singapore -
Sounds like nothing more than a squeak from.....a mouse perhaps?
Disappointing. It further affirms the fact that Singaporeans are bred in a culture of apathy. -
It further affirms the fact that Singaporeans are bred in a culture of apathy.
Can't be blame, with the sort of regime and the type of mainstream media we have in Singapore.
They see what happened to JBJ and others. -
One has to be realistic that this is unprecedented and there are many people who are still fearful to participate in this silent protest. There are many whom I talked to were so fearful about it though I explained to them it is not illegal to wear black for shopping. As a first time, realistically speaking the turnout was good. As a start, I have not expected to see ten of thousands or more.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Sounds like nothing more than a squeak from.....a mouse perhaps?
Disappointing. It further affirms the fact that Singaporeans are bred in a culture of apathy.
Many did not walk around to observe that there were people in black in almost every shop. They just went in to Centrepoint and just looked around and that's it and concluded not many people wore black. -
I guess it is the mode of protest.
Dress with a little black, could encompass just about any ordinary shoppers.
Touted as a success by one, and as a hoax by another.
And as as I guessed it, failure is attributed to the culture.
This kind of modus operandi has full potential for deception. -
After 8 Sept 07, I believe the next time when they have silent protest there will be more attending. The main reason why many did not wear black is because they are still fearful though they are told wearing black to shop is not illegal. ON our way, we saw many in black outside Centrepoint, and along Orchard. I am so surprised to see so many aunties in black. Saw groups of teenagers wearing black in groups of less than 5, saw many couples in black, saw single ladies in black.Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:Can't be blame, with the sort of regime and the type of mainstream media we have in Singapore.
They see what happened to JBJ and others.
This is just the beginning. -
Whatever those who turned up are better than those who keep talking and do nothing.
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The struggle for true democracy has begun since LKY's days. Then there were people like Chia Thye Poh, Tan Wah Piow etc and even Chee Soon Juan has fought this battle for 14 years. This is the progress that we have witnessed today.Originally posted by qlqq9:One has to be realistic that this is unprecedented and there are many people who are still fearful to participate in this silent protest. There are many whom I talked to were so fearful about it though I explained to them it is not illegal to wear black for shopping. As a first time, realistically speaking the turnout was good. As a start, I have not expected to see ten of thousands or more.
Many did not walk around to observe that there were people in black in almost every shop. They just went in to Centrepoint and just looked around and that's it and concluded not many people wore black.
PAP has certainly done a good job in this respect. Hats off to them. -
This is just a silent protest to send the message to the gahmen, democracy not included here.
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Dont think so.Originally posted by Rock^Star:The struggle for true democracy has begun since LKY's days. Then there were people like Chia Thye Poh, Tan Wah Piow etc and even Chee Soon Juan has fought this battle for 14 years. This is the progress that we have witnessed today.
PAP has certainly done a good job in this respect. Hats off to them.
There is still some kind of impact there.
Just look at the votes during GE.
Its dropping. -
Democracy includes the freedom to protest. We have none of that.Originally posted by qlqq9:This is just a silent protest to send the message to the gahmen, democracy not included here. -
You really think so? I hope so too.Originally posted by Xephone_xenon:Dont think so.
There is still some kind of impact there.
Just look at the votes during GE.
Its dropping. -
Before you jump off your table, let me state that I am for liberty, not freedom. Freedom is a very misunderstood and often misused word. Taken to extreme, it means you can do anything as you wished, not just protest. Protest would be considered mild in relation to the freedom to kill, rob and squat in your room. And again, the term democracy is often quoted left and right without knowing its full meaning, the history, the development and the socio-political context. You have a long way to go before you realised the correct meaning and its implications. I don't mean to be condescending ..... I would have mis-used the term democracy and freedom years ago when I was fresh out of school!Originally posted by Rock^Star:Democracy includes the freedom to protest. We have none of that. -
Dont think so.
There must be a balance of power in parliament.
There is still some kind of impact there.
Just look at the votes during GE.
Its dropping.
Too dangerous to let a small group of men to monopolise power in a state. -
''.....I believe it is right to support a standard of human rights which deplores barbaric behavior to your own people, let alone torture.
• "If I have to shoot 200,000 students to save China from another 100 years of disorder, so be it."
I think the Chinese, in the beginning, resented this. But now on human rights, they have begun to talk, and they recognize that if they want to be respected in the world community, they want to win a certain status with the rest of the world, not just advanced countries, but even the developing countries, then they cannot behave in a barbaric fashion to their own people.
- Lee Kuan Yew on Human Rights and Democracy – excerpt of an interview in 2001.
- Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew evoking the ghost of Deng Xiaoping whilst endorsing the Tiananmen Square massacre, Straits Times, Aug 17, 2004"If we are to survive as a free democracy, then we must be prepared, in principle, to concede to our enemies - even those who do not subscribe to our views - as much(sic)constitutional rights as you concede yourself."
• ''Supposing Catherine Lim was writing about me and not the prime minister...She would not dare, right? Because my posture, my response has been such that nobody doubts that if you take me on, I will put on knuckle-dusters and catch you in a cul de sac... Anybody who decides to take me on needs to put on knuckle dusters. If you think you can hurt me more than I can hurt you, try. There is no other way you can govern a Chinese society.''
- Lee Kuan Yew Legislative Assembly Debates Sept 21, 1955
- SM Lee Kuan Yew, The Man and His Ideas, 1997"But we either believe in democracy or we not. If we do, then, we must say categorically, without qualification, that no restraint from the any democratic processes, other than by the ordinary law of the land, should be allowed... If you believe in democracy, you must believe in it unconditionally. If you believe that men should be free, then, they should have the right of free association, of free speech, of free publication. Then, no law should permit those democratic processes to be set at nought, and no excuse, whether of security, should allow a government to be deterred from doing what it knows to right, and what it must know to be right... "
• "Put it this way. As long as Jeyaretnam [Workers' Party leader] stands for what he stands for -- a thoroughly destructive force -- we will knock him. There are two ways of playing this. One, you attack the policies; two, you attack the system. Jeyaretnam was attacking the system, he brought the Chief Justice into it. If I want to fix you, do I need the Chief Justice to fix you? Everybody knows that in my bag I have a hatchet, and a very sharp one. You take me on, I take my hatchet, we meet in the cul-de-sac. That's the way I had to survive in the past. That's the way the communists tackled me. He brought the Chief Justice into the political arena."
- Lee Kuan Yew, Legislative Assembly Debates April 27, 1955
- SM Lee Kuan Yew, The Man & His Ideas, 1997"Let us get down to fundamentals. Is this an open, or is this a closed society? Is it a society where men can preach ideas - novel, unorthodox, heresies, to established churches and established governments - where there is a constant contest for men's hearts and minds on the basis of what is right, of what is just, of what is in the national interests, or is it a closed society where the mass media - the newspapaers, the journals, publications, TV, radio - either bound by sound or by sight, or both sound and sight, men's minds are fed with a constant drone of sycophantic support for a particular orthodox political philosophy?
• "Political reform need not go hand in hand with economic liberalisation. I do not believe that if you are libertarian, full of diverse opinions, full of competing ideas in the market place, full of sound and fury, therefore you will succeed."
That is the first question we asked ourselves. I would like to see minds stimulated and debate provoked, and truth refined and crystallized out of the conflict of different evidence and views.
I, therefore, welcome every and any opportunity of a chance to agree, or to dissent, in order that out of thesis comes synthesis - thesis, anti-major premise, anti-premise, synthesis, so we progress...
I welcome every opportunity to meet members of the opposition, and so do members of my party, over the radio, over the television, university forums, public rallies. We never run away from the open encounter. If your ideas, your views cannot stand the challenge of criticism then they are too fragile and not sturdy enough to last.
I am talking of the principle of the open society, the open debate, ideas, not intimidation, persuasion not coercion...
Sir, the basic fundamentals we asked ourselves...is whether the duties of the Minister of Information and Broadcasting are to produce closed minds or open minds, because these instruments - the mass media, the TV, the radio - can produce either the open minds receptive to ideas and ideals, a democratic system of life, or closed and limited.
But I know that the open debate is a painful process for closed minds...But let me make this point: that 5 million adult minds in Malaysia cannot be closed - definitely not in the lifetime of the people in authority. It is not possible because whatever the faults of the colonial system, and there are many...they generated the open mind, the inquiring mind."
- Lee Kuan Yew Dec 18, 1964 Malaysian Parliamentary Debates
- Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew, Straits Times, Aug 17, 2004
You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you.
Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)
It is when power is wedded to chronic fear that it becomes formidable.
Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983), The Passionate State of Mind, 1954 -
Thank you Atobe.
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I wonder if absolute power have led to his decadence ...
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actually he should rephrase it... "If i have to shoot 200,000 ignorant students to save 1.3billion chinese from another 100 years of sorrow and poverty, though it pains me through and through.....let me alone bear the price and sins"Originally posted by Atobe:"If I have to shoot 200,000 students to save China from another 100 years of disorder, so be it."''Supposing Catherine Lim was writing about me and not the prime minister...She would not dare, right? Because my posture, my response has been such that nobody doubts that if you take me on, I will put on knuckle-dusters and catch you in a cul de sac... Anybody who decides to take me on needs to put on knuckle dusters. If you think you can hurt me more than I can hurt you, try. There is no other way you can govern a Chinese society.''
rephrase... "I am not fighting for myself.... as a leader of singapore, i fight for everyone who rallies to my banner......In the real world... we cannot expect mercy from our opponents... naviety and a heart of innocence sounds hollow and cannot be used as an excuse when you fail your people and those who place their lives and their family in your hand.""Put it this way. As long as Jeyaretnam [Workers' Party leader] stands for what he stands for -- a thoroughly destructive force -- we will knock him. There are two ways of playing this. One, you attack the policies; two, you attack the system. Jeyaretnam was attacking the system, he brought the Chief Justice into it. If I want to fix you, do I need the Chief Justice to fix you? Everybody knows that in my bag I have a hatchet, and a very sharp one. You take me on, I take my hatchet, we meet in the cul-de-sac. That's the way I had to survive in the past. That's the way the communists tackled me. He brought the Chief Justice into the political arena."
rephrase... "we all fight to win... even a bird fights to survive by catching the early worm... who wants to loose?""Political reform need not go hand in hand with economic liberalisation. I do not believe that if you are libertarian, full of diverse opinions, full of competing ideas in the market place, full of sound and fury, therefore you will succeed."
repharse... "there are many systems of govt, each have its pros and cons... there are no perfect system... ultimately its the qualities, the character and the skills of the leaders in power that decides if a system succeed or fail." -
a Man cannot wield absolute power...Originally posted by Trump_Card:I wonder if absolute power have led to his decadence ...
GOD is the only absolute power, not only over your lives, but your souls as well as over death and against all the demons of hell...
is GOD decadent in your opinion?
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ultimately... it boils down to ... TRUST.Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:There must be a balance of power in parliament.
Too dangerous to let a small group of men to monopolise power in a state.
lack of trust results in calls for checks and balance.
yet... even if you put 100 checks and a million balance... ultimately it does not dispel your lack of trust....
to be suspicious is human nature... to claim otherwise is to simply declare you are no longer human.
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one man's freedom is another man's restriction....Originally posted by Rock^Star:Democracy includes the freedom to protest. We have none of that.
courage..... a simple word, a hard act.....
that which restricts your freedom to protest... isnt the system... its deeper within you...
if you lack the courage... nothing can motivate you.
if you are courageous... no rules can stop you. -
Dun preach religion in public forum please.Originally posted by tripwire:a Man cannot wield absolute power...
GOD is the only absolute power, not only over your lives, but your souls as well as over death and against all the demons of hell...
is GOD decadent in your opinion?
You soon become an extremist.
You must know that many have no religions. To them your thinking is extreme.
Do you know who has no religion? -
And I might say it was not a large turnout as an observer.Originally posted by qlqq9:Whatever those who turned up are better than those who keep talking and do nothing.
Have any of you considered that majority in singapore are still , even today, completely unaware of the event which passed?
If only a few knows, say 1000, what do you think? -
the world is composed of yin and yang.... competing and complementing each other in an endless cycle...Originally posted by reddressman:Dun preach religion in public forum please.
You soon become an extremist.
You must know that many have no religions. To them your thinking is extreme.
Do you know who has no religion?
and within the yin... there is yang... and within the yang... there is yin.
as there are many believers among us ... there too must be many unbelievers as well....
among the believers... there are those who questions their faith in times of difficulties.
and within the unbelievers... there are those who cries out for divine help when faced with insurmountable odds.
dont worry... its only human nature.... to be such fickle hearted. -
If permit is needed to obtain for such natural expression, it is as if flowers are not allowed to blossom, nor birds been permitted to sing. Are we not restricted by unjust law that is taking away our people's natural rights?