Let's compare the worklife of Japan, Europe, and Singapore
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Belgium
-> 20+ days leave (unsure about the accumulation part)
-> Public Holidays: 13
-> Pay similar to Singapore, except in EURO dollars. For eg. a person who earns S$2000 here will get E$2000 there
-> Union to protect the workers
Germany
-> 30 days leave that can accumulative endlessly (there is no such thing as only can accumulate for 2 years)
-> Public Holidays: 15
-> Pay similar to Singapore, except in EURO dollars, AFTER Taxation. For eg, a person who earns S$2000 here will get E$2000 there
-> Union to protect the workers
-> Others: Train transport at half price if buy 1-year validity ticket. Work-life balance. Goes home on time most of the time.
-> Germany allows employee to work out staggered work hours as long as their work permits. This reduce traffic jams and allows people flexibility to manage their time.
Japan
-> 26 days leave (can accumulate for 2 years)
-> Public Holidays: 15 (if bank or govt employees: +3 more)
-> Basic pay higher than Singapore. If Overtime, executives below managerial level gets OT pay.
-> Union to protect the workers
Singapore
-> 14 - 18 days leave (assuming private companies). Only can accumulate for 2 years. Legally, a company can grant you only 7 days vacation and get away with it.
-> Public Holidays: 11
-> Pay is among the lowest in developed countries. If Overtime (MOST of the time), no overtime pay. No off-in-lieu. Expected to come back during weekends, 24 hours if required.
-> No union to protect the workers. No protection for executives against unfair treatment. Individual is supposed to hire a lawyer to address unfair treatment
-> Still a mentality to want the worker to sit there from morning to night regardless of productivity
NOTE: Check your employment contract. Chances are, there's a clause whereby it allows the company to terminate your service without any valid reason so long as it gives you 1 month notice in advance. (This clause has a serious implication, in that a company can terminate you even if you are a good performer, so long as it gives a month's notice)
The above are just comparisons of what I have gathered so far. -
actually if i'm not wrongfor germany the pay is higher. but because of the tax eventually the take home pay is the same or higher.
+ the social benefits of course. -
Basically, Singapore is a country that is very pro-business, so pro to the point that it looks pretty anti-worker these days.
No job is secure. Anybody can be retrenched at any time, and according to the contract, they can technically just give 1 month's pay and ask you to leave without any proper reason. All they need to do is provide 1 month's notice.
So where's the most secure and most high-paid jobs? *looks at the political sector*
wonder why are we all slogging so hard
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My apologies, I believe you are right, according to sample information I collected from Germany, after tax, their middle income range is still about Euro 2k to Euro 3k+Originally posted by hisoka:actually if i'm not wrongfor germany the pay is higher. but because of the tax eventually the take home pay is the same or higher.
+ the social benefits of course.
That's versus our middle income range of S$1.5k to S$4k. MINUS the benefits -
Germany allows employee to work out staggered work hours as long as their work permits. This reduce traffic jams and allows people flexibility to manage their time.
Australia has schemes where employer can get 2 person for one job - job sharing. -
Thanks I added the new info.Originally posted by mistyblue:Germany allows employee to work out staggered work hours as long as their work permits. This reduce traffic jams and allows people flexibility to manage their time.
Australia has schemes where employer can get 2 person for one job - job sharing.
Anyone has info of other countries, pls feel free to let me know, I will put it up as a comparison for everyone. -
singapore you might want to include the definition of executive to head-off misunderstandings. like above 1.6k i think and such.
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I think they call some of those kids who join MLMs "executives" too.Originally posted by hisoka:singapore you might want to include the definition of executive to head-off misunderstandings. like above 1.6k i think and such.
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Hard to define. The lines are pretty blurred in singapore.Originally posted by hisoka:singapore you might want to include the definition of executive to head-off misunderstandings. like above 1.6k i think and such.
But you are right, anyone earning above $1.5k or $1.6k cannot approach MOM to address unfair treatment, and can only hire their own lawyer to pursue such issues. -
that's the main problem here in s'pore & employers are chancing on thatOriginally posted by soul_rage:Hard to define. The lines are pretty blurred in singapore.
But you are right, anyone earning above $1.5k or $1.6k cannot approach MOM to address unfair treatment, and can only hire their own lawyer to pursue such issues.
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Imagine you have to engage a lwayer if you earning more than 800 euros!Originally posted by soul_rage:Hard to define. The lines are pretty blurred in singapore.
But you are right, anyone earning above $1.5k or $1.6k cannot approach MOM to address unfair treatment, and can only hire their own lawyer to pursue such issues. -
in singapore, I know there are companies which offer at least 21 days of leave. One example would be my company (an MNC from US) which I did attachment with. For staff > 18 mths working there, they would get 21 days annual leave. Extra 5 days marital leave, 2 days each for first 2 surviving babies, and this is excluding leave if any next of kin pass away.
So to claim a maximum of only 18 days of leave for Singapore is rather unfair. -
That's a US MNCOriginally posted by eagle:in singapore, I know there are companies which offer at least 21 days of leave. One example would be my company (an MNC from US) which I did attachment with. For staff > 18 mths working there, they would get 21 days annual leave. Extra 5 days marital leave, 2 days each for first 2 surviving babies, and this is excluding leave if any next of kin pass away.
So to claim a maximum of only 18 days of leave for Singapore is rather unfair.
Let us take a local private company, which is where most locals work.
Also, kindly exclude marital leave, childcare leave, etc, coz these are also not included in the information above, and if added in, other countries do not lose to what Singapore has.
So to claim 18 days is not unfair.
I would say 21 days is more a minority than the norm -
Japan now going from bad to worse. Kita-Kyuushu government cheating its people of their pensions. :p
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and we DON'T EVEN HAVE pensions in the 1st place.Originally posted by Slipshade:Japan now going from bad to worse. Kita-Kyuushu government cheating its people of their pensions. :p
In Singapore, only some people with an IRON rice bowl, and with the bowl filled with gold, have pensions as well -
actually if i'm not wrong most private companies are actually only 14 days. 18 days for more senior staff. and 21 days is a rarity.Originally posted by eagle:in singapore, I know there are companies which offer at least 21 days of leave. One example would be my company (an MNC from US) which I did attachment with. For staff > 18 mths working there, they would get 21 days annual leave. Extra 5 days marital leave, 2 days each for first 2 surviving babies, and this is excluding leave if any next of kin pass away.
So to claim a maximum of only 18 days of leave for Singapore is rather unfair. -
I suppose MNC are private, cause they are not government.Originally posted by hisoka:actually if i'm not wrong most private companies are actually only 14 days. 18 days for more senior staff. and 21 days is a rarity.
IMHO eagle is right, in MNC, 14 days are generally for clerical and junior staff, senior managers get 21 days. Actually in the MNC I used to work for, those who are senior in service as well as rank even get 28 days. This is rewarded partly because these senior staff travels extensively in the region, which mean they are working 24 hrs, Saturday Sunday while overseas.
With more and more MNC in Singapore, especially those regional HQ, the HR rules from the HQ, either in the US or EU, are being implemented here, we should see more and more singaporeans having the same kind of benefits as their counterparts overseas. Of course, we do see some foreign companies short changing locals.
How about the government, or the banks, only 14 days? we shouldn't compare orange with rambutan. -
Negative, for the MNCs I worked for, they provide between 14-18 days of leave, depending on your seniorityOriginally posted by sgdiehard:I suppose MNC are private, cause they are not government.
IMHO eagle is right, in MNC, 14 days are generally for clerical and junior staff, senior managers get 21 days. Actually in the MNC I used to work for, those who are senior in service as well as rank even get 28 days. This is rewarded partly because these senior staff travels extensively in the region, which mean they are working 24 hrs, Saturday Sunday while overseas.
With more and more MNC in Singapore, especially those regional HQ, the HR rules from the HQ, either in the US or EU, are being implemented here, we should see more and more singaporeans having the same kind of benefits as their counterparts overseas. Of course, we do see some foreign companies short changing locals.
How about the government, or the banks, only 14 days? we shouldn't compare orange with rambutan.
I have friends in MNCs like foreign oil companies, they only have 15 days of leave.
How long ago are you comparing? Becoz I notice a drop in no. of days of leave for the younger generation.
Again I don't see your above as the norm, rather its the exception. -
y no1 compare between the quality of Japan workforce, Germany workforce and Singapore workforce????
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I would like to give everyone further infoOriginally posted by sgdiehard:I suppose MNC are private, cause they are not government.
IMHO eagle is right, in MNC, 14 days are generally for clerical and junior staff, senior managers get 21 days. Actually in the MNC I used to work for, those who are senior in service as well as rank even get 28 days. This is rewarded partly because these senior staff travels extensively in the region, which mean they are working 24 hrs, Saturday Sunday while overseas.
With more and more MNC in Singapore, especially those regional HQ, the HR rules from the HQ, either in the US or EU, are being implemented here, we should see more and more singaporeans having the same kind of benefits as their counterparts overseas. Of course, we do see some foreign companies short changing locals.
How about the government, or the banks, only 14 days? we shouldn't compare orange with rambutan.
The current MNC I worked for has operations in US, Japan, Europe, Asia, and they implement different benefits in different countries, according to the local areas' norms.
If we take your above example, then those local companies like PSA, who take over Europe ports, are in trouble if it decides to implement Singapore benefits in Europe. It would immediately fail in their implementation. -
I was thinking
Europe... last time earn damn a lot from colonies.... Now most infrastructure already built....
Japan, after WWII, got US military help in defence. Most of money used to build economy, country so big, so economy has strong internal demand.
Singapore? Once a colony... Infrastructure not fully up (train stations still under construction). -
Hmmmm.... Singaporeans has better top talent, especially at the very top. Which is why the very top talent gets 3 mil sgd pay a year, at least 3 times the amount of their Japanese and German counterpart. Also cannot say pay lesser wor... (sarcasm intended, mentioned just in case)Originally posted by ispyyy:y no1 compare between the quality of Japan workforce, Germany workforce and Singapore workforce???? -
It is true of what you said above. SGHis a very good example. I have ex colleagues who for no good reason were asked to leave. When I was on attachment there, I worked with these 2 people and I find them kind and helpful and good in their work, unfortunately the nasty doctors and staff in SGH love to bully them. SGH got rid of them immediately by paying them one month's pay without reason. One of the despots who was responsible for this is old man lky's doctor. This despot is despicable to get what he wants. This despot judge people how much he likes the look of the persons. He was trying so hard to get rid of this staff ever since he joined SGH. SGH works like the ruling party, they are closely related to PAP.Originally posted by soul_rage:Basically, Singapore is a country that is very pro-business, so pro to the point that it looks pretty anti-worker these days.
No job is secure. Anybody can be retrenched at any time, and according to the contract, they can technically just give 1 month's pay and ask you to leave without any proper reason. All they need to do is provide 1 month's notice.
So where's the most secure and most high-paid jobs? *looks at the political sector*
wonder why are we all slogging so hard -
Originally posted by soul_rage:
I dont know where you got this data and which company or job are you referring to but its not true.Many people are required to put in their own time without pay.Its called "Service OT" and if you dont do it then you are not a good worker.If you are new in a company you might start with a low as 5 days leave and get one extra day for every year you serve in the company.Basic pay is higher but not much fringe benefits as in Singapore.In some parts of Japan Union dont even exist.Maybe you are talking about expatriate white collar jobs but for Citizens life sucks just as much
Japan
-> 26 days leave (can accumulate for 2 years)
-> Public Holidays: 15 (if bank or govt employees: +3 more)
-> Basic pay higher than Singapore. If Overtime, executives below managerial level gets OT pay.
-> Union to protect the workers
[/b] -
Originally posted by soul_rage:
Technically, you could be working for free and this regime wouldn't regard it illegitimate. In fact, the lower your wages, the better it is for them - after all, they could literally enslave you into repaying your debts for life and still market themselves as a paradise offering cheap skilled labour at a level beyond comparison with any other parts of the developed world.
Singapore
-> 14 - 18 days leave (assuming private companies). Only can accumulate for 2 years. Legally, a company can grant you only 7 days vacation and get away with it.
Oh, and did I forget to mention this regime is so considerate as to actually implement such wonderful policies to help look after you upon retirement through scams known as the CPF?