Let's compare the worklife of Japan, Europe, and Singapore
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Well, I do not know where you get the "Service OT" part.Originally posted by Short Ninja:I dont know where you got this data and which company or job are you referring to but its not true.Many people are required to put in their own time without pay.Its called "Service OT" and if you dont do it then you are not a good worker.If you are new in a company you might start with a low as 5 days leave and get one extra day for every year you serve in the company.Basic pay is higher but not much fringe benefits as in Singapore.In some parts of Japan Union dont even exist.Maybe you are talking about expatriate white collar jobs but for Citizens life sucks just as much
I have Japanese colleagues in the previous company and this current company, and they are all paid OT pay if they work OT.
My friends in oil MNCs confirm that as much.
And these are local Japanese.
I do not know where you get the 5 days leave thing, but here's some info on minimum leave in several countries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacation
It may not be 100% accurate, but your 5 days sounds a bit far from the info provided -
i dont think you can compare wages like this, after all they have 30-50% income tax, and cost of living is damn high -
I been living in Japan for over 20 years and I am a Japanese citizen now so you can tell your 'friends' not to throw smoke bombs at you when you ask them a simple honest question.Originally posted by soul_rage:Well, I do not know where you get the "Service OT" part.
I have Japanese colleagues in the previous company and this current company, and they are all paid OT pay if they work OT.
My friends in oil MNCs confirm that as much.
And these are local Japanese.
I do not know where you get the 5 days leave thing, but here's some info on minimum leave in several countries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacation
It may not be 100% accurate, but your 5 days sounds a bit far from the info
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'Service OT' is when you do stuffs for the company without getting paid anything from 30minutes to 100 minutes a day but only when you add it all up at the end of the year times the number of workers in the company would you know how much the company saves at the worker's expence.This is one of the labor issues here in Japan.
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I agree with u on the leave thing as most of the japanese coy I interview in the past offer only 7 pathetic days of leave per yr.Originally posted by Short Ninja:I been living in Japan for over 20 years and I am a Japanese citizen now so you can tell your 'friends' not to throw smoke bombs at you when you ask them a simple honest question. -
Yes,there is no fix rules some people get a better deal but what I am saying is that if the company can makan you they would eat you arrive (alive)Originally posted by SpeedStar:I agree with u on the leave thing as most of the japanese coy I interview in the past offer only 7 pathetic days of leave per yr.
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And Soul Rage if your friends are still acting bluur about 'Service OT' just say 'sabisu Zanggyo' and they would soon confess>
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interesting, and no they are not throwing smoke bombs at me.Originally posted by Short Ninja:I been living in Japan for over 20 years and I am a Japanese citizen now so you can tell your 'friends' not to throw smoke bombs at you when you ask them a simple honest question.
Coz its indeed true from the MNCs I work for, and that this is the common understanding I have from the Japanese friends I have.
So as to why you are different, I can't answer. Maybe they are the exception, or you are. -
As I mentioned, in Germany, after income tax, they still have 2k to 3k+ for the middle income groupOriginally posted by unclebutcher: i dont think you can compare wages like this, after all they have 30-50% income tax, and cost of living is damn high
And no, their cost of living isn't super high as well given their pay, coz I was there for a period of time. -
On this Service OT,Originally posted by Short Ninja:'Service OT' is when you do stuffs for the company without getting paid anything from 30minutes to 100 minutes a day but only when you add it all up at the end of the year times the number of workers in the company would you know how much the company saves at the worker's expence.This is one of the labor issues here in Japan.
What happens after 100 minutes? -
Is that for Europeans?Originally posted by unclebutcher: i dont think you can compare wages like this, after all they have 30-50% income tax, and cost of living is damn high -
Actually you should be able to claim all OTs even if it is 15 minutes but the company would probably say 'wake up your farking idea' in an indirect way so press balls and KPKB Lah .Like I said earlier they judge you how hardworking you are by how much you are willing to work for free.As you know a lot of companies are also struggling here and so this is something people do 'volunteerily'. If more than 100 hrs even a zombie would put it in overtime sheet>Originally posted by soul_rage:On this Service OT,
What happens after 100 minutes? -
So technically speaking, you can claim for OT (in terms of $$$?)Originally posted by Short Ninja:Actually you should be able to claim all OTs even if it is 15 minutes but the company would probably say 'wake up your farking idea' in an indirect way so press balls and KPKB Lah .Like I said earlier they judge you how hardworking you are by how much you are willing to work for free.As you know a lot of companies are also struggling here and so this is something people do 'volunteerily'. If more than 100 hrs even a zombie would put it in overtime sheet>
And so in a company, they have an unofficial time of 100 minutes free, before you are allowed to claim?
My question is, where is this 100 mins thingy coming from?
100 mins -> 1 hour 40 mins.
I think most of us Singaporeans work more than 2 hours past the official knock off time, so that makes us even more hardworking than Japanese? -
Yes, and again its a misconception that the cost of living is sky-high.Originally posted by Short Ninja:Is that for Europeans?
Most of us have the subconscious state of computing their costs into SGD, and therefore think its high.
But if you are earning 2k to 3k+ euros per month, then their costs are not really considered that high anymore
You can get a glass of beer at less than 2 euros
You can get pork knuckle at less than 6 euros
You can get a glass of soft drink at less than 2 euros
You can get a large main course of pork ribs with sides < 8 euros
If you want to save, there are asian fast meals that costs < 4 euros for a full meal
So no, I do not think their cost of living is sky-high. -
There is no yardstick to measure OT but just an average estimattion so for that I apologize.I am really sorry to hear about the situation in Singapore during my time it was called 'Angkat Bodek' but I guess you could also call it 'sabisu zanggyo' now.Originally posted by soul_rage:So technically speaking, you can claim for OT (in terms of $$$?)
And so in a company, they have an unofficial time of 100 minutes free, before you are allowed to claim?
My question is, where is this 100 mins thingy coming from?
100 mins -> 1 hour 40 mins.
I think most of us Singaporeans work more than 2 hours past the official knock off time, so that makes us even more hardworking than Japanese? -
There is no official term such as Service OT in Singapore.Originally posted by Short Ninja:There is no yardstick to measure OT but just an average estimattion so for that I apologize.I am really sorry to hear about the situation in Singapore during my time it was called 'Angkat Bodek' but I guess you could also call it 'sabisu zanggyo' now.
Basically, all you get are bosses that make remarks on why you are leaving the office on time, or colleagues' eyes staring at you if you leave office at an earlier time. And of course that impact on your performance.
Back in my time in a local MNC, everyone is competing to see who will win "most no-life person award", by staying as late as they can in the office. Burning your weekends, the management will keep REALLY quiet and most don't even dare to ask for off-in-lieu.
Now, my life is better, in a US MNC, I get the flexibility to work anywhere as I am mobile, so I can go home on time. Of coz, if there are issues, I will get online from home to resolve them. But its a small price to pay to get rid of that stupid mentality of having people sit there from morning to night. I get off-in-lieus for OTs and working on weekends, so in that sense, I am lucky.
A local transport company interviewers told my friend that the official working hours are 8am to 5.30pm, but they expect her to leave the office no earlier than 8pm most days. Needless to say, my friend rejected the offer, and I hear that there is a high turnaround for that particular company.
A certain cooperative has in their contract stated terms in the line of "It is normal for you to sacrifice your weekends, and public holidays, and work OT, and you are not entitled to claiming off-in-lieu if you need to perform the sacrifice" -
hello aren't you missing something if you do not consider the relative cost of basic goods/housing in the countries you have chosen to compare?
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As Singapore evolve further.
Competition step in and Singapore might not be the favourite investment place anymore.
Government will try ways and means to ask them come in.
Protections for workers or us is not their priority now.
Jobs cannot be iron rice bowl anymore.
We have to fight for our share now.
Politic jobs is not fully secure too.
But the risk if being ask to quit is much lower.Originally posted by soul_rage:Basically, Singapore is a country that is very pro-business, so pro to the point that it looks pretty anti-worker these days.
No job is secure. Anybody can be retrenched at any time, and according to the contract, they can technically just give 1 month's pay and ask you to leave without any proper reason. All they need to do is provide 1 month's notice.
So where's the most secure and most high-paid jobs? *looks at the political sector*
wonder why are we all slogging so hard
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I am just showing worklife. Basically, bringing too many things into the picture only makes it too complicated. You can choose to live on the streets or to take a loan and buy a house. Its a person's choice.Originally posted by sngyze:hello aren't you missing something if you do not consider the relative cost of basic goods/housing in the countries you have chosen to compare?
I am just putting up work-related information, its up to you guys to discuss whatever you want to discuss. -
One of the reasons why a wage is high is because of the risks involved in a job. A salary is usually computed based on the risks taken for a job. The higher the responsibility, the higher the pay, because the top person must take the rap if something happens.Originally posted by CPTMiller:As Singapore evolve further.
Competition step in and Singapore might not be the favourite investment place anymore.
Government will try ways and means to ask them come in.
Protections for workers or us is not their priority now.
Jobs cannot be iron rice bowl anymore.
We have to fight for our share now.
Politic jobs is not fully secure too.
But the risk if being ask to quit is much lower.
Our political jobs are one of the best. Almost 100% secure with high pay.
Make a $200 million mistake -> No heads roll. Gave a stupid statement "Its an honest mistake" (Which mistake is NOT honest?)
Make a wrong decision -> Its not a u-turn. Its a rethink
(the list goes on)
In other countries, long ago, the leader accountable would have stepped down to take responsibility.
Here? They grab and hug onto the post so tightly its like they cannot earn an equivalent salary should they lose this job. -
That is nothing..you go and compare the worklife of pple in Saudi Arabia..OMG..High income, low gas price, tax free, free health, free education, 90% of its citizens have maids and chaffeurs..OMG..theres lots more i cant list
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LOL,i thought those PAP leaders call themselves "talents".Talents,from my definition is no matter under what circumstances,if they lose one job,they can find another with no difficulties at anywhere at anytime.Becoz they are true "talents"Originally posted by soul_rage:Here? They grab and hug onto the post so tightly its like they cannot earn an equivalent salary should they lose this job.
Hmmm....It looks like Lee Kuan Yew,Lee Hsien Loong,n that boot-licker Goh Chok Tong are "Fake talents"!!!! -
I wouldn't compare it this way.Originally posted by soul_rage:Yes, and again its a misconception that the cost of living is sky-high.
Most of us have the subconscious state of computing their costs into SGD, and therefore think its high.
But if you are earning 2k to 3k+ euros per month, then their costs are not really considered that high anymore
You can get a glass of beer at less than 2 euros
You can get pork knuckle at less than 6 euros
You can get a glass of soft drink at less than 2 euros
You can get a large main course of pork ribs with sides < 8 euros
If you want to save, there are asian fast meals that costs < 4 euros for a full meal
So no, I do not think their cost of living is sky-high.
We can get a can drink for a dollar 30 centres at coffee shops, less than a dollar in supermarkets
we can get very full meals at < 5 dollars
we can get a large main course < 8 dollars too
If you really want to save, there are still <4 dollars for rather full meals at food courts. Cai Png at $2.50 for 1 meat 2 vege.
You can't compare food prices just like that. Most would include housing and transport and other miscellaneous stuff. -
work in all places b4... my view is still that sg SUCKZ
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Now,the PAP even intend to force ppl to buy up "Life Annuity" so as to scam our CPF money even further!!!Those F@rking PAP b!tches!!!!Originally posted by walesa:Technically, you could be working for free and this regime wouldn't regard it illegitimate. In fact, the lower your wages, the better it is for them - after all, they could literally enslave you into repaying your debts for life and still market themselves as a paradise offering cheap skilled labour at a level beyond comparison with any other parts of the developed world.
Oh, and did I forget to mention this regime is so considerate as to actually implement such wonderful policies to help look after you upon retirement through scams known as the CPF?