PAP: Stop Screwing Around with Peoples' CPF - Think Harder..
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Vote for another party lor. If Singaporeans are brave enough to make the current PM step down.
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PM to step down? I think they are stepping up. Still remember the eternal ministers system in Singapore? PM, SM, MM, SMM, GMM, .... .Originally posted by bila_prem:Vote for another party lor. If Singaporeans are brave enough to make the current PM step down. -
Ripoff? Yes, but not in the way you are thinking.
This is just the start. They know if they take too much at one shot, we'll all walk righ up to the Istana and drag them all out by their ears.
So the solution? Take what they consider a "small amount" first. With the few thousand they take, this is the projected we will get back at 85 - $300 a month.
Once it's in place, the papers with sell us the idea that $300 a month isn't enough so the PAP needs to take more money "for our own good" so we get more than $300 a month because $300 a month is too little and can't sustain us (REALLY??? We are all stupid and never knew that $300 a month can't sustain us!!!).
No matter how they try to package it, that we are buying annuities or what ever gloss they want to throw on it, the money goes to them. Plain and simple.Originally posted by HyperFocal:Just imagine, or picture this; a man at 82 or more, very likely with some medical condition/s, & a monthly pay out to him of $300.
Tell me, by then with inflation factored in, what can the old sick man do with a measely $300 per month??
Don't come and tell me, it's better than nothing!!
It's a farking RIP OFF I'll say!!! -
This ex debater put up a good wayang in the beginning when he become the minister by telling how initially he thought negatively of PAP. WAyang wayang. Anyway, he is from SGH, the ruling party simply loves to get doctors from that hell hospital to become ministers.Originally posted by Archirodon:A promising young debater was once challenging the political scene in a debating motion many years ago. Now, he's one of them... wahaha... -
Its like you have a sum of money. Say $50,000.Originally posted by furb:hmm, can someone tell me how this annuities work? Well, I'm only 18 this year but I feel that this will affect my future someway or another.
At your retirement age of, say, 65 years old. You take out $300 per month.
The money will last for about 14 years.
If you put your money with an insurance co, before you retirement age, like at 60 years, the ins co will pay you about $300, from 65 years of age for as long as you live. Thats annuity in simple terms.
The issue here is, should you take up an annuity on your own free will, or should the government compulsorily acquire your CPF money, and give you the annuity from age 85 years old.
Whats your opinion on this? -
Bingo!Originally posted by qlqq9:This ex debater put up a good wayang in the beginning when he become the minister by telling how initially he thought negatively of PAP. WAyang wayang. Anyway, he is from SGH, the ruling party simply loves to get doctors from that hell hospital to become ministers. -
But friend, cool your exhausts. hold your horses.Originally posted by RatFink:Yes! I always feel like that in $ingapore. Like cash cow for PAP!!!
Everywhere parking fees, stop anywhere to buy things also bloody greedy PAP want to make money for leaving car at side of the road!!! Car tax already so high! Got road tax some more still put ERP more and more!!! PAP make so much money leasing flats made with tax payer money. LEASE!!! Not SELL !!! Still want to put property tax??? Already tax my pay, still want to put GST and tax some more!!! Taxi, bus, train also price go up, up , up!!! Electricity and water also up!!!
Stay here so stress!!! Becoming more and more and more expensive because of PAP but my pay also never go up!!!
Peoples life here like shit!!! Still PAP want to say they damn good and suck more and more money from us?
Always say we not welfare state!!! Then why their pay so high and got pension some more? Why our ministers can make up positions when suppose to retire and still grab millions every year? They not living on welfare with our money is it???
The majority. In a democracy. Decided. And have always decided. Rain or shine.
Should we not respect democratic decision?
should you not thank the majority for what is happening?
Is it not true that its only the MINORITY that think like you?
Is it not true that MAJORITY would have shown their disapprove had they not approved their actions? Well, what can you say except that The MAJORITY decided regardless if they kpkb all this while?
Is it not true that the Majority DENIED the Opposition any GRC?
2 seats out of 83 or so.
This is the TRUTH, the whole TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH.
Does the MAJORITY know what have they contributed to singapore's vibrancy, transparency, democracy, tolerance of views ? I hereby salute this MAJORITY. Unfortunately, most likely, they are not watching this forum except for the counter insrugence team. -
Originally posted by HyperFocal:
To cut shot your long post ..... I would urge you to visit any old folks home or nursing home. I just visited one nursing home today (in Woodlands) and I asked the staff there. Here are the statistics: 2 patients are above 100 years. Average age of patients - 75 years. More women than men. Most suffered from stroke, dementia.
[b]LONG LIFE? I won't last that long, leh
Our poll shows more than half don't believe they'll live till 85
By Ng Tze Yong and Elysa Chan
September 19, 2007
ME? Live past 85? Such was the snorts and scoffs of Singaporeans polled when told they had a 50 per cent shot at fulfilling one of their biggest wishes - a long life.
Longevity, the ubiquitous greeting at birthdays, weddings, new year celebrations, the stuff of many a prayer, is now no longer wishful thinking.
According to the Department of Statistics, 1 in 2 Singaporeans alive at 62 in 2006 will go on to live beyond 85.
Statistics don't lie.
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Now, better to see with your own eyes than to talk easy here. THINK THINK THINK. If you were to live to 80s and beyond, do you have the means to sustain yourselves or would you depend on your (cannot be guranteed filial) children or relatives to support you??? -
Your are correct to some degree. But allow me to point out that these really old, sick, uncared, & unwanted folks that you visited in those Homes, were likely former Farmers who led a laborious but healthier lifestyle, hence they ended up living longer... it would be fallacious of the government to based on these ageds of yesteryears & ASSUME that ALL Singaporeans will eventually live just as long or even longer.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:To cut shot your long post ..... I would urge you to visit any old folks home or nursing home. I just visited one nursing home today (in Woodlands) and I asked the staff there. Here are the statistics: 2 patients are above 100 years. Average age of patients - 75 years. More women than men. Most suffered from stroke, dementia.
Now, better to see with your own eyes than to talk easy here. THINK THINK THINK. If you were to live to 80s and beyond, do you have the means to sustain yourselves or would you depend on your (cannot be guranteed filial) children or relatives to support you???
From what I can see, and have been noticing thus far, children of today in recent decades, have been brought up on a substantial diet of fastfoods (I need not name which, we all know which fastfood chain is the largest here)...
Generation pf Today, are popularly coming down with Diabetes, High Blood Pressure, stricken more often by stroke, developing Mental Disorders, Suicidal Tendencies, Arythmia (irregular heart beats), etc....
A case in point: a young and seemingly FIT Captain who join the walk or marathon, collapsed & died after completing the stint recently.
Henceforth I ask, "What longevity of today's people?" -
The CPF must continued to be juggled about as there is no way that this Government can pay every single person a lump sum based on the original CPF scheme.
How can the CPF succeed when there are more Singaporeans born during the period from 1945 to 1969 then any time after this period ?
The CPF scheme is like a pyramid that need a strong wide base at the bottom to support the smaller apex at the top.
This must be so, as those retiring at the top of the pyramid will be taking the most out of the CPF - as their savings would have earned compound annual interests on the long period of contribution.
This large amount taken out from the CPF by the retirees will need a bigger population to continue providing the big contribution that will form the wide bottom of the pyramid - so as to support the large amount of money to be taken out by the retirees.
Unfortunately, with the 'Stop at 2' campaign seeing its effects from 1970s onward till this day, there are less Singaporeans to continue contributing into the CPF to make this program work.
If an average Singaporean employee earn $2000 per month, and pays 20% into his CPF while the Employer pays 16%, there will be a fixed monthly CPF contribution of $720; or $8,640 p.a.
It this amount earns 2% compound interest per year, by the time this Employee reaches his retirement on the 35th year of working life, he will have approximately $440,591.33.
If the retiring population is 100,000 workers, and each has $440,591.33 in his CPF, this Government will need to pay out $44,059,133,000 per year.
If the entire Singaporean work force of approximately 2,000,000 were to retire over the next 20 years - the Government will have to find $881,182,660,000 to pay everyone.
Surely, this amount is more then the known Singapore National Reserves ?
If the Government can have this amount to pay Singaporeans, why mess around with the original CPF scheme ?
It is obvious that either there is no money to pay out, or simply that the Government is reluctant to pay out such a huge sum to elderly Singaporeans - whom the MIW elite has no respect of their abilities to handle such a windfall.
The biggest fear of the MIW is that the elderly Singaporeans will act irrationally by contributing the vast sum of money to support the Alternative Political Parties to battle the MIW. -
That's the real question now isn't it? Democracy? The majority VOTED them in?
With the GRC in play, the majority of Singaporeans did not even get to vote at the last elections.Originally posted by reddressman:But friend, cool your exhausts. hold your horses.
The majority. In a democracy. Decided. And have always decided. Rain or shine.
Should we not respect democratic decision?
should you not thank the majority for what is happening?
Is it not true that its only the MINORITY that think like you?
Is it not true that MAJORITY would have shown their disapprove had they not approved their actions? Well, what can you say except that The MAJORITY decided regardless if they kpkb all this while?
Is it not true that the Majority DENIED the Opposition any GRC?
2 seats out of 83 or so.
This is the TRUTH, the whole TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH.
Does the MAJORITY know what have they contributed to singapore's vibrancy, transparency, democracy, tolerance of views ? I hereby salute this MAJORITY. Unfortunately, most likely, they are not watching this forum except for the counter insrugence team. -
Here's more Kock & Bull from this ugly bloke...
It's basically more Hogwash...
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Retirement funding a shared responsibility between people and govt
By Julia Ng, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 22 September 2007 2124 hrs
SINGAPORE : The financial planning of one's retirement needs is the joint responsibility of the people and government(?), says National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan.
The Government will do its part through incentives(?) and programmes such as the lease buy-back scheme.
And one component of the scheme which allows elderly HDB residents to cash in on their flats will ride on the Longevity Insurance.
Speaking to residents from the North East District on Saturday, the Minister says Singaporeans must play a part to secure their retirement(?).
This is why (?)the Government wants Singaporeans to work for as long as they could, and buy a longevity insurance(?)so that those who live beyond 85.
Mr Mah says: "We have to encourage(?) and explain(?) to them that retirement adequacy has to be a joint responsibility between the Government and the people(?). Government will contribute in his lifetime through subsidised housing(?), and now through the various incentives - Workfare, the WIS Scheme, plus all the cash top ups(?) that take place from time to time."
Mr Mah adds that, on its part, the Government has over the years helped build up Singaporeans' nest egg(?), and helping them acquire their biggest asset which is to buy their own flats through subsidised housing.(?)
The proposed lease buy-back scheme is another way in which the Government hopes(?) to offer Singaporeans a steady retirement income(?).
He says: "The scheme will also have a connection to the CPF Longevity Insurance Scheme. Because one part of the lease buy-back scheme will also involve a Longevity Insurance. So I want to ride on the Scheme that will be finalised by the CPF Board. The house is a very very major asset. But once you're able to unlock it, people will realise that it'll also contribute significantly to their retirement. (?)
"It will not be totally adequate(?) because obviously there has to be other schemes(?) in place as well. This is why I hope(?) that the lease buy-back scheme, plus the CPF minimum sum scheme, together will ensure that there's adequacy in retirement(?)."
Mr Mah says the lease buy-back scheme will be an attractive one offering various options catering to differing needs.(?)
Residents could continue to live in the flat without disruption to their lives(?).
Mr Mah says: "The Lease Buy-Back Scheme will consist of three components. On the upfront, a cash component. Second component which pays a certain sum of money up to a certain age. And a third component which is an insurance component which pays a certain sum of money after that age.
"And so if, for example, that age is 85 - if you live beyond age 85, you will be assured of a payment after 85. Before age 85, you'll be assured of a payment from the second component." The scheme has three components and the exact amounts will be finalised early next year.
Mr Mah also launched the North East CommunIty CONnectors Network which aims to equip the elderly with Life Needs, Life Skills and Life Style. - CNA/ch -
Originally posted by HyperFocal:
what have they CONtribute to the shared responsibilities? yeah, come out with some crap and you pay. What have the fullfill as a responsible government? Sky high medical cost? public services that also makes money so they can justify their sky high salaries?
Here's more Kock & Bull from this ugly bloke...
It's basically more Hogwash...
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[b]Retirement funding a shared responsibility between people and govt
By Julia Ng, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 22 September 2007 2124 hrs
SINGAPORE : The financial planning of one's retirement needs is the joint responsibility of the people and government(?), says National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan.
[/b] -
PAP, pls do not touch our OWN INDIVIDUAL SINGAPOREAN money.
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Damn true.Originally posted by dragg:i bet those people who came up with such great ideas are those who doesnt need their cpf.
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Don't wayang how to score points ?Originally posted by qlqq9:This ex debater put up a good wayang in the beginning when he become the minister by telling how initially he thought negatively of PAP. WAyang wayang. Anyway, he is from SGH, the ruling party simply loves to get doctors from that hell hospital to become ministers.
Standard Operating Procedures leh..
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That's the problem with Sillyporeans year after year after year, since 1965, never learn their lesson, that's why many of us including myself have left this useless piece of rock. CPF will be out of reach to most Sillyporeans in 15 years time.....To be realistic and fair, I'd say only 10-15% will live till 85, don't even mention past 85.....time and again, there are schemes to make CPF even more out of reach to most Sillyporeans......draw down age increased, now compulsory donation of some of your cpf to those who live past 85...soon they will tell you that you cannot even touch your cpf cause it belongs to them, frankly, I have given up cause they are capable of doing as they please, no wonder this is a city of possibilities, for the elite ie.Originally posted by thinker:PAP, pls do not touch our OWN INDIVIDUAL SINGAPOREAN money.
better leave this place while they still allow you to cash out your cpf when you give up your passport -
Come to think of it, Sillyporeans remind me of frogs in a pot of water slowly simmering to boiling point.....too comfortable and too much of the good life...well.....
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CPF Annuity - another hidden tax
Columns by Andrew PK Yap
IT IS NOT that the government has not taken enough from the people. It now wants to take more, disguised as an annuity scheme.
READ MORE: http://www.newsintercom.org/index.php?itemid=550 -
keep PAP in... Vote him out... it can be done... sell this idea to Singaporeans... it would be more palatable to the pitiful sheep filled with irrational fears...Originally posted by bila_prem:Vote for another party lor. If Singaporeans are brave enough to make the current PM step down. -
lets say you are 50 now, take in the inflation factor.. does the gahmen actually take into account how much $300 IS WORTH IN 35years time??
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They know it'll be worth nothing. Don't get fooled by this.
Read my last post at 09:04 PM on 22 September 2007.Originally posted by 4getmenot:lets say you are 50 now, take in the inflation factor.. does the gahmen actually take into account how much $300 IS WORTH IN 35years time?? -
Personally, I think that PAP are all Greedy & Stupid Idiots, to think & staunchly proclaim that a measely $300-$400 can sustain an old person of above 82 years with medical condition/s 30 to 40 years down the road...(!!!)Originally posted by 4getmenot:lets say you are 50 now, take in the inflation factor.. does the gahmen actually take into account how much $300 IS WORTH IN 35years time??
Look at costs NOW! Can you get by on $400 a month????
Yes perhaps possible if you live in a camping tent at East Coast Park!
NNB!!!
Kock all of them!!! -
Besides understanding how annuity works it is also important that you know what it means for CPF members which you would eventually become one once you starting working for others. From NMP Siew Kum Hong's blog:Originally posted by furb:hmm, can someone tell me how this annuities work? Well, I'm only 18 this year but I feel that this will affect my future someway or another.
27. But for present purposes, it is worth discussing what a compulsory annuity would mean for CPF members. It represents an unprecedented inroad into members' ownership rights over their CPF funds. Prior to this, members have been restricted in what they can do with their funds, but they are not forced to spend on anything. Schemes like MediShield, ElderShield, the Dependent Protection Scheme and the Home Protection Scheme are all optional, although some are opt-out.
28. The compulsory annuity, even if limited to some but not all members, would be a very different animal. Members will be compelled to purchase an annuity, from which they may get nothing. -
Correct. i think NMP Siew Kum Hong said it very well:Originally posted by Bloop...:Ripoff? Yes, but not in the way you are thinking.
This is just the start. They know if they take too much at one shot, we'll all walk righ up to the Istana and drag them all out by their ears.
So the solution? Take what they consider a "small amount" first. With the few thousand they take, this is the projected we will get back at 85 - $300 a month.
Once it's in place, the papers with sell us the idea that $300 a month isn't enough so the PAP needs to take more money "for our own good" so we get more than $300 a month because $300 a month is too little and can't sustain us (REALLY??? We are all stupid and never knew that $300 a month can't sustain us!!!).
No matter how they try to package it, that we are buying annuities or what ever gloss they want to throw on it, the money goes to them. Plain and simple.
30. All this represents a sea-change in the nature of CPF members' rights over their CPF balances. It means that CPF members do not really own their CPF funds, because the Government is able and willing to impose policies to compel members to use their funds in a certain way, even against their strongly-expressed wishes.
31. This week, it is a compulsory annuity. But if we take that first step, will it prove to be a slippery slope of encroachment onto CPF members' rights? What will it be next week, next year, next decade? An increase in the annuity amount? Some other compulsory scheme?