NZ police "slack'',taking so long to find the body
-
i think your first reaction is 'Oh Lionnoisy,u again !'
Pl be informed that the thread in not mine:Auckland criminal lawyer Barry Hart earlier accused police of being "slack" for taking so long to find the body.
---http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/she-may-have-been-alive-in-boot-excop/2007/09/20/1189881645403.html
But this sad story should be put inside Spore police academy
text book.The motto is ''Weigh the risk and possible benefits''
U may be accused of contaminating crime scene,but u
may save a life.
2.Pl cool down.Assume u are a Auckland of NZ Police in-chargeing
investigate a case like this:
A father ,of age 54,took flight to Australia together with 3 years old daughter and abandoned her in Melbourne railway station in Australia on Saturday.
Then left for US.
His wife ,age 27 , is missing and now u find his
car parking outside his house.
What is your first priority---
Call for CSI to check finger print on site?
Tow the car to police compound ?
Search the car immediately ,including Open the boot?
Wait for further instruction?
I think if u dunt want to be blamed u contaminating crime scene ,
just called CSI to check a window to collect any fingers print.
Then break the window to open the boot.
How long it would take?Few hours at most.
But NZ police took two days to open the boot,giving
thousand of reasons and ''make no apologies for taking so long to search the car and find the body.''
Oh my God.This kind of police should be fired,literally,
on the spot.i mean he should be....
3.But NZ police just wait for two days before they opened it!!.She may have been alive in boot: ex-cop.
4.Confusion around Pumpkin case,Ian Munro in New York
Michael Field and Ben Fawkes
September 20, 2007 - 11:26AM
A former high ranking cop has criticised police for taking two days to find the body of an Asian woman in the boot of runaway father Nai Yin Xue's car parked outside his Auckland home.
Police, who walked around the car and the undiscovered body in the boot for two days, say they make no apologies for taking so long to search the car and find the body.
For two days, members of the public, police and a large media contingent walked past the car with the undiscovered body in the boot...
September 20, 2007 -
Body in boot Â… the car in which Ms Liu's body was found in the street outside her house.Photo: Craig Abraham
Oh Dear,NZ police took 2 days to collect evidences before they open the boot
and find the body.
Today Strait Times published a photo of the car ,with two big Chinese
characters of ''News'' on the bonnet.The father is the boss
of a local newspaper.I think they find the car easily.
5.Their views can reflect mine:
September 20, 2007
Sheep are smarter than the NZ police.
Posted by: jack farmer of hamilton 7:29am today
What we've learnt from all this is: if you want to commit a crime, do it in New Zealand (think Keystone Cops).
Posted by: Quincy of Gawler 4:46am today
6.
Why did it take good 45 hours to open the boot after NZ police found the car parker just outside the family's house?
The woman might be still alive when she was put on last Thursday.
NZ police just took 45 hours from finding the car to open the boot
and found the body.
NZ police found it on Monday.
A warrant to seize the Honda was granted at 9pm on Tuesday night.
Then towed to police compound.
Auckland police records
1.9:34am 18 September 2007
Auckland Police team established to find "Pumpkin's" mum,
2.5:01pm 18 September 2007
To date(), Auckland City CIB have visited four addresses that Anan is known to have lived in at times over the past 12 months - three in Auckland and one in Wellington.
While Police have recovered some items of interest from an address, there's been nothing to indicate where Anan is.
Detective Senior Sergeant Simon Scott says Police concerns for Anan Liu's safety are real and justified.
(God damn it!Real and justified and still
not search the two cars and the house.They went to 4 addresses but
did not open the car boot!!)
3.10:30am 19 September 2007
'',Police today will examine the two family cars that have been seized under warrant, as well as the Keystone Ave family home address in Mt Roskill.
4.5:09pm 19 September 2007
''
The body of an Asian woman was discovered this afternoon in the boot of a vehicle removed from outside the Keystone Ave, Mt Roskill, address of Nai Yin Xue, late last night.
The vehicle - a car registered to Mr Xue - was removed from where it was parked on the side of the street under warrant last night and taken to a secure location in the city where it was kept under guard overnight. '''
Boot at last was open 1 pm Wed 19 Sept.
Oh.Then.they can claim the body was found just few hours
after the team had been formed.Wa! Good job!!
Auckland Police gave the search Operation Patch,sound
so big operation.But so slow,really slow.
7.NZ police just contradicted words and actions
Did they think the whereabout of the woman,dead or alive?
Police hinted some serious crime had been committed,Therefore
they must be very careful before opening the boot.
What is the serious crime they hinted?Murder?
Does this mean they suspect the woman was inside the boot?
Dont they think she may still alive and should open the boot
at once?
8.Dunt fxxx me.
read what New Zealanders said of this case---What do you think of the police handling of the Qian Xue Pumpkin case?
Fugitive murder suspect Nai Xin Xue with his wife, Anan Liu, and youngest daughter, Qian Xun Xue. PICTURE: NEW ZEALAND HERALD
I think the medias should cover the face of the girl.
Nai Yin Xue, the girl's father, arriving at the Henderson Police Station on Thursday, September 13,© NZ Police 2007
The car in which the body of a female Asian was found today
© NZ Police 2007
9.Full history of the case -
It's not slacking.
In the US and Western nation,there is a high level of bureauccracy within their departments. -
As long as you follow procedures, I don't see how opening a boot will contaminate crime scene.
Plus, once a crime scene is contaminated, it's very hard for the evidence to be held up in courts.
Anyway, the crime scene is already contaminated. How is that piece of evidence going to hold up in court I don't know.
What was odd was why the car WAS OUTSIDE the cordon.
Maybe there's some laws to it... but I don't know NZ... not my place to comment. -
"Urgency was the name of the game," the former detective said.
--save life is top priority.
He said there was a possibility she may have been alive when she was put in the boot and was still alive when Mr Xue left Auckland for Melbourne last Thursday.
"Christ, one of your prime duties of your oath of office (as a police officer) is to protect life," he said.
The ex-officer said the police had too many senior officers in the upper echelon who did not "think outside the square and don't know where the jugular is and to go for it and to get their priorities right. -
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
saving life is top piority and that is my stand too but ur title is giving a wrong name.
--[b]save life is top priority.[/b]
IT IS NOT CALLED SLACKING. -
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
Clearly, in the article, the urgency wasn't there. And that's what the ex-detective thinks, not the one who is investigating.
--[b]save life is top priority.[/b] -
These officer have to act by orders of their superiors.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Clearly, in the article, the urgency wasn't there. And that's what the ex-detective thinks, not the one who is investigating.
And as i've pointed out the issues of high level burreaucracy in the justice department,it is called "PROCEDURE",not "SLACKING". -
2.Who is this Top officer u referring to?Originally posted by boka:These officer have to act by orders of their superiors.
And as i've pointed out the issues of high level burreaucracy in the justice department,it is called "PROCEDURE",not "SLACKING".
Procedures?
Top priority of any fireman is to search any one trapped.
This also apply to police:to save any live in danger pro actively --anywhere,any time.
3.I can understand police go for corruption and tied up with underworld---
for money,etc
I cant forgive police or others just ''to play safe''attitude to protect
himself 101 %.Do nothing is the best..
4.What do u assess NZ?
This kind of culture/attitude cant be formed overnight,nor
to be changed overnight.
5.
While this photo was taken,the mother might be still alive...
Pumpkin case: Body under cops' noses for two days,By Elizabeth Binning and Stuart Dye--http://www.nzherald.co.nz,Updated 2:05PM Thursday September 20, 2007....A warrant to seize the Honda Rafaga was granted at 9pm on Tuesday night but police did not find the body, believed to be that of missing woman An An Liu, until 1pm yesterday(Wed) during a forensic examination...
6.read what New Zealanders said of this case
The car, registered to Ms Liu's fugitive husband Nai Yin Xue, had been parked outside their Mt Roskill home since at least Monday.
Detective Senior Sergeant Simon Scott said the delay was a result of police conducting a "thorough inquiry here and doing thorough investigations".
Mr Scott said police spent Tuesday trying to obtain a search warrant for the car but it was not granted until 9pm.
It then took a further two hours before the car was towed to a secure location.
Yesterday morning the forensic examination was delayed "a little bit longer than it usually would" be, while police underwent a briefing on the case, which included bringing staff new to the inquiry up to speed.
Mr Scott said once under way the forensic examination had to be carried out according to procedure.
"We haven't had the keys for that vehicle. It's just not a matter of breaking the windows and getting in."
He said the examinations were not as easy as shown in television programmes such as CSI.
"These things don't take minutes, they could take days or weeks. We are wanting to do a thorough investigation into that vehicle and we are not going to be rushed," he said. "We are working for An An and her family and we want to gather the evidence and prosecute the offender and that's what we are going to do."
A former high ranking cop has criticised police for taking two days to find the body in the car.
The ex-detective, who asked not to be named, said police inaction and failure to find the body was "absolutely appalling."
He said once the police were told Qian had been abandoned, Ms Liu was missing and her husband had fled to America, they made basic errors.
He said a search warrant in a potential homicide inquiry could be obtained within an hour, and rejected police claims they could not search the car for many hours because of the time it took to get the search warrant.
"Urgency was the name of the game," the former detective said.
He said there was a possibility she may have been alive when she was put in the boot and was still alive when Mr Xue left Auckland for Melbourne last Thursday.
"Christ, one of your prime duties of your oath of office (as a police officer) is to protect life," he said.
The ex-officer said the police had too many senior officers in the upper echelon who did not "think outside the square and don't know where the jugular is and to go for it and to get their priorities right.
"I don't know if they are scared of all the niceties they think they are supposed to bloody observe or whatever."
But Police Deputy Commissioner Operations Rob Pope said he had every confidence in the investigation team.
"There are many forensic and legal requirements to be taken into account when dealing with an item of potential evidential value. Following proper process in these matters can be critical to the conclusion of any trial process."
Auckland City Police spokeswoman Noreen Hegarty said "we don't just go busting into things".
"We have to make sure we are in a very secure area where any evidence is not going to be contaminated, where there's not going to be any people who are offended or distressed by what we might uncover. We needed to make absolutely sure that the processes that we used are correct.
"Our staff, including myself, have been working exceedingly long hours to make sure this investigation is carried out appropriately. We are not going to fall into the trap of fitting into the general population's agenda. What we need to do is do things properly. Like I said, there is no apologies for doing the job right."
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When asked if there was a chance the woman might have been alive but died in the time it took for police to open the boot, Ms Hegarty said: "I'm not going to speculate on that but we haven't had any reported sightings of An An since 4.35 last Tuesday."
Auckland defence lawyer Barry Hart last night criticised the time police took to obtain the search warrant and find the body, saying it appeared "slack".
Mr Hart said warrants could be granted by a Justice of the Peace if police had "reasonable grounds" to conduct a search.
"In my experience police get search warrants often when they've got very little evidence to justify it, so it seems absolutely ridiculous if they're suggesting that it took a lot of time and it's a great formal process when in reality it's not ... it sounds to me that they've just been a bit slack."
Keystone Cops?
* The boot of the abandoned car outside a house in Keystone Ave, Mt Roskill, was the most obvious of places.
* And yet it took 45 hours from the time police first went to the street before those searching for An An Xue looked inside.
* When they finally got around to it, they found the body of a woman that must have been there for at least six days.
* Why it took them so long is just one of many questions arising from a sensational case that in some ways resembles the Keystone Kops. -
Hello?Originally posted by lionnoisy:
we all know policemen is to save lifes,to fight crimes.
IDEALISTICALLY YES.
But in reality,things does not work this simple.
Just like when a patient needs blood URGENTLY,There is still a procedure that he/she will have to follow.
This is because policemen do not fight crimes alone,there is higher ups and they follow orders from their superiors.
The word "FIGHT CRIMES,SAVE LIVES" i a mere beautiful frame painted upon their badges. -
Can u just read my opening posting again:
u are the Auckland police in charge and u get the info
from Aussie police.:
Aussie police found a 3 years old Auckland girl,
abandoned by her 54 years old father in
Melbourne railway station.
The father then left for US.
CCTV in Melbourne railway station caught the scene.
Your mission:Find the family.
I think your first question is
Where is the wife and mother of a 3 years old girl?
Now u come to the family house and found a car marked
with two big Chinese characters ''News'' parked
outside the house.
A simple check with neighbour would confirm belong to
the Chinese family.The man is a boss of a Chinese newspaper.
Then,i heard ,u may need to apply 2 Warrants to search the house
and the car.This is because the car is parked on the road,not
inside the house boundary!!
Then.....45 hours later,your colleagues found the body.
2.Now i know why SG can catch up with NZ GDP
from NZ government site -
lol..
but seriously.. i lived in ChristChurch before. My house was ransacked and burglared when i went back. Police came and couldnt go into the house knowinly that my house was burglared , with forced entry and the front door ajar. They needed 'Permission' from house owner.. which was me but unfortunately i wasnt around. 'DOH'
Then they did a stake out in neighbours house.. but went home at 3 am thats when another group of burglars came n busted into the garage and broke into my car. Thats when they decided to park a police car after my entire house was cleaned out and my car broken in to. -
There can be various reasons why we laugh at people for the wrong reasons and get laughed at for the same reason.
-
I really vomite bloods after reading Auckland police press release.
They was worry for her safety as ''real and justified''.
But the car boot was only open 20 hours later after the press release,
and good 45 hours later after the Police found the car.
Auckland police records
1.9:34am 18 September 2007
Auckland Police team established to find "Pumpkin's" mum,
2.5:01pm 18 September 2007
''To date(), Auckland City CIB have visited four addresses that Anan is known to have lived in at times over the past 12 months - three in Auckland and one in Wellington.
While Police have recovered some items of interest from an address, there's been nothing to indicate where Anan is.
Detective Senior Sergeant Simon Scott says Police concerns for Anan Liu's safety are real and justified.
(God damn it!Real and justified and still
not search the two cars and the house.They went to 4 addresses but
did not open the car boot!!)
3.10:30am 19 September 2007
'',Police today will examine the two family cars that have been seized under warrant, as well as the Keystone Ave family home address in Mt Roskill.
4.5:09pm 19 September 2007
''
The body of an Asian woman was discovered this afternoon in the boot of a vehicle removed from outside the Keystone Ave, Mt Roskill, address of Nai Yin Xue, late last night.
The vehicle - a car registered to Mr Xue - was removed from where it was parked on the side of the street under warrant last night and taken to a secure location in the city where it was kept under guard overnight. '''
Boot at last was open 1 pm Wed 19 Sept.
Oh.Then.they can claim the body was found just few hours
after the team had been formed.Wa! Good job!!
Auckland Police gave the search Operation Patch,sound
so big operation.But so slow,really slow.
7.NZ police just contradicted words and actions
Did they think the whereabout of the woman,dead or alive?
Police hinted some serious crime had been committed,Therefore
they must be very careful before opening the boot.
What is the serious crime they hinted?Murder?
Does this mean they suspect the woman was inside the boot?
Dont they think she may still alive and should open the boot
at once?
8.Dunt fxxx me.
read what New Zealanders said of this case---What do you think of the police handling of the Qian Xue Pumpkin case?
Fugitive murder suspect Nai Xin Xue with his wife, Anan Liu, and youngest daughter, Qian Xun Xue. PICTURE: NEW ZEALAND HERALD
I think the medias should cover the face of the girl.
Nai Yin Xue, the girl's father, arriving at the Henderson Police Station on Thursday, September 13,© NZ Police 2007
The car in which the body of a female Asian was found today
© NZ Police 2007 -
Your paste so much, you expect us to read that much?
-
Hmm...Originally posted by BadzMaro:lol..
but seriously.. i lived in ChristChurch before. My house was ransacked and burglared when i went back. Police came and couldnt go into the house knowinly that my house was burglared , with forced entry and the front door ajar. They needed 'Permission' from house owner.. which was me but unfortunately i wasnt around. 'DOH'
Then they did a stake out in neighbours house.. but went home at 3 am thats when another group of burglars came n busted into the garage and broke into my car. Thats when they decided to park a police car after my entire house was cleaned out and my car broken in to.
Just a neutral question:
1) Is this a problem with the police handling your case?
OR
2) Is this a problem with the procedures they have to adhere to? -
2.NZ and other first world have long history.Originally posted by boka:Hello?
we all know policemen is to save lifes,to fight crimes.
IDEALISTICALLY YES.
But in reality,things does not work this simple.
Just like when a patient needs blood URGENTLY,There is still a procedure that he/she will have to follow.
This is because policemen do not fight crimes alone,there is higher ups and they follow orders from their superiors.
The word "FIGHT CRIMES,SAVE LIVES" i a mere beautiful frame painted upon their badges.
Is there any provisions to authorize police to search
without warrants where the safety of human life is
''real and justified''?
I read NZ press and some one mention it takes less than 24
hours to get a warrant.Or ask a JP to sign.
I think i watch movie and Judge was waken up
to sign warrant.
Freedom and democarcy.Go to hell!! -
The more you write, the more confused I get. What are you trying to say?
NZ has NZ way of doing things, I don't see why we should even bother. Read and learn not to make their mistake... -
Don't criticize NZ police so much, Singaporean police (despite Singapore being a small dot and easier to control) let Huang Na's prime suspect slip thru their noses at the causeway; they let the one eyed dragon shoot some nightclub owner and slip thru the causeway; they let Richard Yong slip thru to Hong Kong and other countries; they only managed to find the bodies of orchard towers murder after it smells and some member of public called the police; amongst the other slapstick capers they do.
I don't understand the logic of some people, they want to put others under a bad light so they could look much pristine when compared.
It's equivalent to some colleague performing much better than you at work and you trying to discredit him by finding petty faults with him.
Xiao Ren. -
Yay!!!Originally posted by lionnoisy:2.NZ and other first world have long history.
Is there any provisions to authorize police to search
without warrants where the safety of human life is
''real and justified''?
I read NZ press and some one mention it takes less than 24
hours to get a warrant.Or ask a JP to sign.
I think i watch movie and Judge was waken up
to sign warrant.
Freedom and democarcy.Go to hell!!
We hail P4P's authoritarian regime!!!
Long live authoritarianism, death to democracy and human rights!!!! -
Originally posted by maurizio13:
1.i agree sg has faults or too late by letting them slipped.
[b]Don't criticize NZ police so much, Singaporean police (despite Singapore being a small dot and easier to control) let Huang Na's prime suspect slip thru their noses at the causeway; they let the one eyed dragon shoot some nightclub owner and slip thru the causeway; they let Richard Yong slip thru to Hong Kong and other countries; they only managed to find the bodies of orchard towers murder after it smells and some member of public called the police; amongst the other slapstick capers they do.
[/b]
2.NZ police just guarding the body inside the boot but
only open it 45 hours later... -
Ok, here's a really, really simple question. All you need to do is to fill in the blank in the following sentence:Originally posted by lionnoisy:1.i agree sg has faults or too late by letting them slipped.
2.NZ police just guarding the body inside the boot but
only open it 45 hours later...
The reason why New Zealand police crime scene standard operating procedures should bother us is ________. -
are you upset with the way they treat an AsianOriginally posted by lionnoisy:1.i agree sg has faults or too late by letting them slipped.
2.NZ police just guarding the body inside the boot but
only open it 45 hours later...
or are you just trying to find fault with NZ to make Singapore look good?
If (1), I can understand your unhappiness
If (2), as maurizio showed, our police have their own flaws as well.
And I did ask whether is this becoz NZ police are inadequate, or becoz of the procedures they have to follow that are inadequate? -
Last I checked in Singapore if we punch lionnoisy but cause no lasting damage, there is little that lionnoisy can do to pursue the case without going through a ton of red tape.
-
Another trick by him to make us forget about our government's incompetence, by being opportunistic and comparing with other countries when they make a mistake (hey no one is perfect) when you dun even look at yourself in the mirror.
-
I agree:
Unauthorised entry of a vehicle would mean that evidence could be regarded as tainted or potentially lost in the event of a prosecution case," Mr Pope said.
--Officers made judgement on Xue car, police chief says
Page 2 of 2 View as a single page 6:45PM Thursday September 20, 2007
By Derek Cheng ,www.nzherald.co.nz.
2.But cant they put the whereabout of the mother as top
priority?How can they rule out that the mother
was not inside?
3.Cant they think why the mother did not looking for her daughter?
4.Aussie police smelt some thing wrong:
''If ,for example,there is a worst-case type scenario,if the mother
has been injured....''---ST 19.09.2007
5.I really cant understand why the Auckland Police on Tue morning
classified this as ''a missing persons/possible homicide inquiry''.
Did they think the woman was dead then?Why they could confirm
she was dead and not open the boot?
Pumpkin case: Police say they could have looked in car sooner
10:07AM Friday September 21, 2007
By Elizabeth Binning and Derek Cheng--www.nzherald.co.nzPolice have for the first time conceded that they could have looked in the car where they found the body of An An Liu earlier.
6.Full history of the case
Auckland police spokesman Detective Inspector David Pearson said investigators were possibly too cautious in complying with all the rules....
Ms Liu's badly beaten body was found in the boot, 16 hours after the car was seized by police and 45 hours after police first visited the street....
By Tuesday morning the case was referred to the CIB after it was decided there could be some "sinister developments", police said.
Operation Patch was formed as a missing persons/possible homicide inquiry. The house was cordoned off with police tape that afternoon, but not the car...
He said it was not surprising the body was not discovered until 1pm the day after the car was seized, given the nature of gathering forensic evidence.
He would not say why police did not consider the car to be of interest at the same time that Mr Xue's house was cordoned off...
Police Commissioner Howard Broad told Newstalk ZB yesterday that police had not thought the car was of great significance.
He was disappointed it had taken so long to find the body.
