Malaysia is a RACIST Country
-
so now u r talking abt 'rule'! well i've never been to malaysia too...I'm wondering if ur soilders in uniform sense comply with ur so called 'rule'. cos it dun make no sense if they dun right! since ur country is so religious righteous!Originally posted by kyas:I do agree with you that they can go to madrasah because that is the only place that allows them to practice their belief particularly in wearing tudung. Yes, they have their choices and it is up to them or their parents to choose. If this is the case, you are only creating a larger gap between a Muslim and non-Muslim. The Muslims will go to madrasah, and the non-Muslim will go to the public school. Will that help Singaporean to unite? Will that support the integration between races? I do not think so.
By the way, I was not talking about the choices they have. I was only talking about your school system – the system that was created by men. Are you saying that nothing can change a rule? Are you saying that discipline is the utmost important thing to the extent that you can forget about religion? This shows how unimportant religion is now in Singapore. Thank God the first thing in our Rukun Negara is to ‘Believe in God’. That indicates how we respect religion and each other’s belief. We never force the non-Muslim to wear tudung. They can wear the type of uniform that can be considered as acceptable by their belief and culture.
Maybe for you tudung is ‘just a piece of cloth’ and it is a petty thing. Well it is not a small matter to Muslims.
As for me if I were a Singaporean and if it is really true that the best alternative for education in Singapore is by attending public school, for the sake of my daughter’s future, I will allow her to not to wear tudung in school because it is the rule – a rule that has no respect for religion. We call it ‘darurat’. So far nothing can be done about it except by voicing views through proper channel. I prefer to call it rule and not discipline because it not making you less discipline just because of the tudung.
American school system has nothing to do with our discussion. Thanks for highlighting that Muslim student are allowed to leave school early to attend the Friday prayer in Singapore. It is not news for me. But, it is discrimination for not allowing Muslims to practise their belief i.e. in this case wearing tudung for Muslim girls when they reach puberty.
I am sure that an open-minded person like will be able to understand because as you were saying “essentially there is no problem” – no problem means no problem. -
Originally posted by kyas:
thats precisely the point. the Sg Malay-Muslim community has made their decision by preferring to sending their children to gov't schools. u fail to realise that the issue was raised by a small group. the rest don't see a problem here.
I do agree with you that they can go to madrasah because that is the only place that allows them to practice their belief particularly in wearing tudung. Yes, they have their choices and it is up to them or their parents to choose. If this is the case, you are only creating a larger gap between a Muslim and non-Muslim. The Muslims will go to madrasah, and the non-Muslim will go to the public school. Will that help Singaporean to unite? Will that support the integration between races? I do not think so.
here, children of different ethnic groups play together in school without regard for skin colour or religion. ethnic relations are healthy. compare this with the M'sias system of Chinese school, Tamil schools, Madrasahs... i think you're the ones with the problem, not us. malaysia's intention to promote national schools is one step in the right direction at least.By the way, I was not talking about the choices they have. I was only talking about your school system – the system that was created by men. Are you saying that nothing can change a rule? Are you saying that discipline is the utmost important thing to the extent that you can forget about religion?
if rules are changed so often, then what's the point of having them in the first place? discipline and religious tolerance do not rule each other out. they are strictly two seperate issues. sensitivities are respected on the part of the civil institutions but it cannot be an all take and no give. religious institutions have a part to play to meet the civil institutions halfway as well. everybody has a role to play in preserving order in our multi-ethnic society.
that is why to me, the politicians who have played up this issues are extremely irresponsible individuals. they do not represent the views of the majority of the muslims but yet, they make loud, irresponsible remarks which may threaten the fabric of society.This shows how unimportant religion is now in Singapore. Thank God the first thing in our Rukun Negara is to ‘Believe in God’. That indicates how we respect religion and each other’s belief. We never force the non-Muslim to wear tudung. They can wear the type of uniform that can be considered as acceptable by their belief and culture.
singapore is a secular state. we respect each other's religion. i personally do not think it prudent that religion should play too big a role in our civic and secular society.Maybe for you tudung is ‘just a piece of cloth’ and it is a petty thing. Well it is not a small matter to Muslims.
the american system has everything to do with this discussion. i told u. a lack of display of any religious affiliation doesn't make u godless or disrespectful of other religion. especially if the intention behind such an absence is to prevent discomfort among others not sharing the religion.
As for me if I were a Singaporean and if it is really true that the best alternative for education in Singapore is by attending public school, for the sake of my daughter’s future, I will allow her to not to wear tudung in school because it is the rule – a rule that has no respect for religion. We call it ‘darurat’. So far nothing can be done about it except by voicing views through proper channel. I prefer to call it rule and not discipline because it not making you less discipline just because of the tudung.
American school system has nothing to do with our discussion. Thanks for highlighting that Muslim student are allowed to leave school early to attend the Friday prayer in Singapore. It is not news for me. But, it is discrimination for not allowing Muslims to practise their belief i.e. in this case wearing tudung for Muslim girls when they reach puberty.
i stand by what i said... there is no problem with the tudung because i respect the practices of other religions. but rules are rules and until they are changed, we follow them.
I am sure that an open-minded person like will be able to understand because as you were saying “essentially there is no problem” – no problem means no problem. -
Kyas, you've been listening to too much of the propaganda that your malaysian newspapers print. Your government tells you something and you just believe it? If you've never been to Singapore, how can you even comment? Most of us Singaporeans have been to malaysia, or have friends/relatives who live there so we can honestly say we know we're talking about. So before you come n comment, i suggest you climb out of your cave, come to Singapore... maybe talk to a few malays... And for crying out loud, try not to come here n sound like such a bloody swakoo... cuz it only shows how freakin dumb n ignorant you are.
-
If it is up to the individual to determine what they want to wear, then why are you forcing tourists on beach to cover up? Isn't that imposing your system on others too? Look in the mirror before you judge others, you dickhead.Originally posted by kyas:I do agree with you that they can go to madrasah because that is the only place that allows them to practice their belief particularly in wearing tudung. Yes, they have their choices and it is up to them or their parents to choose.
For your info... a lot of Muslims in malaysia go to madrasahs too, and the non-Muslims go to chinese/indian/public schools. Will that help Malaysians to unite? Will that support the integration between races? I do not think so too!Originally posted by kyas:I do agree with you that they can go to madrasah because that is the only place that allows them to practice their belief particularly in wearing tudung. Yes, they have their choices and it is up to them or their parents to choose. If this is the case, you are only creating a larger gap between a Muslim and non-Muslim. The Muslims will go to madrasah, and the non-Muslim will go to the public school. Will that help Singaporean to unite? Will that support the integration between races? I do not think so.
(and neither do I fucking care 
)
Sure... thanks for reminding me how holy holy you Malaysians areOriginally posted by kyas:By the way, I was not talking about the choices they have. I was only talking about your school system – the system that was created by men. Are you saying that nothing can change a rule? Are you saying that discipline is the utmost important thing to the extent that you can forget about religion? This shows how unimportant religion is now in Singapore. Thank God the first thing in our Rukun Negara is to ‘Believe in God’.
Because your government knows that if they try to pull off a stunt like that... they will have a racial riot on their hands.Originally posted by kyas:We never force the non-Muslim to wear tudung. They can wear the type of uniform that can be considered as acceptable by their belief and culture.
Oh yeah, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Keletan and Terengganu now want school girls of all races to wear the tudung now?
It is also discrimination to preventing talented, able people from entering academic institutions or getting good jobs just because of the colour of their skin.Originally posted by kyas:American school system has nothing to do with our discussion.
Thanks for highlighting that Muslim student are allowed to leave school early to attend the Friday prayer in Singapore. It is not news for me. But, it is discrimination for not allowing Muslims to practise their belief i.e. in this case wearing tudung for Muslim girls when they reach puberty.
'Kaya'.... from what you have said up to now... my current impression of you is one of a radical, racist, malay bigot. You insist that your opinions are the only correct ones and refuse to acknowledge input from the other posters. Yeah, you're a great one for 'open discussion'... I'll remember to call you the next time we decide to hold one.Originally posted by kyas:I am sure that an open-minded person like will be able to understand because as you were saying “essentially there is no problem” – no problem means no problem.
Sieg Heil!!! -
WaahhÂ… so many people attack me aaaaÂ… hehehÂ…
Our soldierÂ’s uniform allows Muslims to wear tudung. Even though we are an Islamic country we do not force our Muslims and non-Muslims soldiers to wear tudung. We do not force them to leave the squad if they want to wear tudung. It is just a matter of personal choice. Our rules are more flexible by incorporating acceptable norms and religious aspects not only to avoid racial riot, the ultimate aim is to promote respects and understanding even in Kelantan and Terengganu.
Even though in Malaysia we have various types of schools, we never restrict any of the pupils to attend to any of the schools. Malays can go to Chinese and Tamil school without any problem of wearing tudung. Even Chinese and Indian are allowed to attend the National schools or Madrasahs. No force on them to put on Islamic attire. Chinese and Indian are allowed to take various subjects including Islamic Education. None of the students are stopped from learning languages like English, Mandarin, Tamil or Arab.
How often does your rule change on this subject? It is just a matter of whether you want it to be changed or not. Your assertion that discipline and religious are two separate issues and religion should not play a big role in your civic and secular society conclude that nothing is against my statement - religion is no longer important in Singapore. I do not see which part of the sensitivities is respected when it comes to our discussion of not allowing pupil with full Islamic attire to attend your public school. I do not think the purpose of such rule is to prevent discomfort among other believers. The policy itself is creating discomfort among the society especially when they have to deal with people who comply with their belief when they go outside.
We will never allow tourist to not to cover up. I have no objections on that part at all because it is not only unaccepted by the Muslims. Even other religions and customs do not allow such behaviour. We expect foreign tourist to respect the Malaysian way of life because it is just not acceptable by all races in the country. Maybe it is acceptable in your country. Since one of you highlighted this issue, may be he/she is the one who likes to walk around without anything covering up his/her body. If so, do it in Singapore. No place for that in Malaysia.
As far as I am concern, I am just questioning the rational behind the tudung issue and giving response based on the Singaporean feedbacks. I did not give any comments based on my limited knowledge on Singapore since I have not been there. Your comments have raised another questions and perceptions or even impressions on some part of them. I do not think any part of my comments is racist or radical. If any, I would like to apologise because I did not mean to provoke anything.
Back to the main issue, now I really understand why Muslim girls are not allowed to wear tudung. It is not discrimination. It is because that is how the system works there or in other words – that’s the rule. If you say that we are racist by providing more opportunities to Bumiputera, well ladies and gentlemen, alas – that’s the rule!!
-
I am curious...why would Dr Ling Liong Sik, MCA Chairman and transport and cabinet minister of Malaysia for 16 years tender his resignation abeit twice already?Originally posted by HARIMAU:
Wait a minute....we have nos of non Malay holding high profile position in the govt(Since 1957)....Liong Sik,Lim Ah Lek,Leo Moggi,Chua Ju Ming,Koh Soo Koon,Lim Kim Yik to name a few.Hell they even got to dictate own terms when BN govt wants to teach certain subject in English(for Chinese/Indian school)-even more they are 3 major Chinese base opposition parties in Malaysia political scene.We have nos non MALAY holding key position in the MAF-Brig Gen Richard Robless,Brig Gen Dr Jayanatham and previous Butterworth AB CO -IS A MALAYSIAN CHINESE!!(Check with your boys here at HQIADS).ARE THERE ANY MALAY HOLDING KEY POSITION WITHIN THE SAF ???? 
NON!!!!!Why????
You guys are the racists ones
Can Capt. Zulkifli fly the Viper??????I rest my case.
hmmm.... -
haiz.... did u all now about the new project on reconstructing the causeway? Hope u all hav seen the drawings. Reasons of changing the causeway bCuz they think tt we steal they bussiness from there port. I heard last time theres this car company use 2 stop in their port, and after the causeway is built, they stop at our port, cuz if they r goin 2 m'sia's port, they hav 2 go a big round 2 reach there, cuz of tt, the car compay came 2 our port. tt makes Singapore the 1st of 2nd busiest port in the world. M'sia if dam unhappy , so they wish 2 rebuilt the causeway. wad a stupid logic from them. Its them who r lousy not us...
-
Of course they don't want to wear tudung... most soldiers are MEN what!!!Originally posted by kyas:WaahhÂ… so many people attack me aaaaÂ… hehehÂ…
Our soldierÂ’s uniform allows Muslims to wear tudung. Even though we are an Islamic country we do not force our Muslims and non-Muslims soldiers to wear tudung. We do not force them to leave the squad if they want to wear tudung. It is just a matter of personal choice.
You haven't answered my question, chee bai.Originally posted by kyas:Our rules are more flexible by incorporating acceptable norms and religious aspects not only to avoid racial riot, the ultimate aim is to promote respects and understanding even in Kelantan and Terengganu.
Yes, Chinese, Indians, and all other races can freely enter any school of their choosing- provided there is enough room left in the quota system for them.Originally posted by kyas:Even though in Malaysia we have various types of schools, we never restrict any of the pupils to attend to any of the schools. Malays can go to Chinese and Tamil school without any problem of wearing tudung. Even Chinese and Indian are allowed to attend the National schools or Madrasahs. No force on them to put on Islamic attire. Chinese and Indian are allowed to take various subjects including Islamic Education. None of the students are stopped from learning languages like English, Mandarin, Tamil or Arab.
What part of "regardless of race, language or religon" do you not understand? Race and religon are isolated from our daily activites because having one religon paramount over others will cause further polarisation between the races. We respect the feelings of all races in Singapore, not like you in Malaysia, which forces its national religon on all its citizens. Look where all your fanaticism is taking you- towards the brighter future of a radical Islamic state.Originally posted by kyas:How often does your rule change on this subject? It is just a matter of whether you want it to be changed or not. Your assertion that discipline and religious are two separate issues and religion should not play a big role in your civic and secular society conclude that nothing is against my statement - religion is no longer important in Singapore.
For you info... this 'tudung' issue is actually a non-issue here among the moderate mainstream muslims... they have accepted this situation since time immemorial... it is only an issue when Malaysian chee bais like you play it up.Originally posted by kyas:I do not see which part of the sensitivities is respected when it comes to our discussion of not allowing pupil with full Islamic attire to attend your public school. I do not think the purpose of such rule is to prevent discomfort among other believers. The policy itself is creating discomfort among the society especially when they have to deal with people who comply with their belief when they go outside.
Other religons do not allow that? Sure or not?Originally posted by kyas:We will never allow tourist to not to cover up. I have no objections on that part at all because it is not only unaccepted by the Muslims. Even other religions and customs do not allow such behaviour. We expect foreign tourist to respect the Malaysian way of life because it is just not acceptable by all races in the country. Maybe it is acceptable in your country. I know lots of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. who will not agree with you. Or you just coming up with another pack of lies to reinforce your already weak case?
If you expect tourists, who are not even your own people, to follow your way of life... then what right have you to criticise ours?
Sigh... if only i could. Unfortunately, I have the Penal Code and six strokes of the rotan to reckon with.Originally posted by kyas:Since one of you highlighted this issue, may be he/she is the one who likes to walk around without anything covering up his/her body. If so, do it in Singapore. No place for that in Malaysia.
And Mr. Kaya.. since you like the tudung issue... let's just say that I eagerly await the highly amusing and incredibly grotesque experience of seeing you in one.
No need for apologies Mein Fuhrer! *click*Originally posted by kyas:As far as I am concern, I am just questioning the rational behind the tudung issue and giving response based on the Singaporean feedbacks. I did not give any comments based on my limited knowledge on Singapore since I have not been there. Your comments have raised another questions and perceptions or even impressions on some part of them. I do not think any part of my comments is racist or radical. If any, I would like to apologise because I did not mean to provoke anything.
Then shaddup lah!Originally posted by kyas:Back to the main issue, now I really understand why Muslim girls are not allowed to wear tudung. It is not discrimination. It is because that is how the system works there or in other words – that’s the rule. If you say that we are racist by providing more opportunities to Bumiputera, well ladies and gentlemen, alas – that’s the rule!! -
he is trying his luck...again and againOriginally posted by BillyBong:I am curious...why would Dr Ling Liong Sik, MCA Chairman and transport and cabinet minister of Malaysia for 16 years tender his resignation abeit twice already?
hmmm.... -
Kayas boy , the tundung issue was set by the govt and agreed by muslim leaders.
To maintain equality in School , the sg govt prefers that tudungs will not be wore in sch. Every religious issue in Sg will be settle carefully with the help of related religion leaders , with the majority of our dear muslim leaders agreeing on the ban of tudung in school ,the govt have been very fair on the law. On my view , no religous discrimination could be seen on the issue.
I hope pple (singaporean / Non-singaporean ) will not be indifferent to start a wave of religous or other sensitive issues which will upset a peaceful diverse population . It doesnt mean we should not express our views , but try not to make a big fuss in the media without seeking out reasons from the related organisations . -
kyas, ur just some jealous malaysian loser who's buay song cuz we everything better than u. Everytime copy us. Thts y u malaysian everytime wanna break record... cuz u guys feel inferior haha now ur stupid petronas twin lan jeow aint tallest nemore... australia gonna built a tower thts almost twice ur twin lan jeow tower size... U malaysians all do the same thing... beat around the bush while ignoring the original issue... every year we have to put up with crap frm ur government... the day will come when we get bloody sick of ur crap. U can't push s'pore arnd forever.
-
Kya ... don't waste you time asking or seeking answer in here. They allow rude remarks from their own kind, as soon as you being rude, they will call you names but reading from your post, there is nothing rude about it.
Why do some of them call you with rude name? .... guess this is the so call BIG & POWDERFUL Singaporean. Then again some of them are nice in here ....... YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE. Die...Die... want to kick Malaysia butt ..... can also. -
guess ur some loser mat frm matlaysia... go drink milo n drive ur proton lar... dun come here.
-
this is the truth .....get a life.....Originally posted by Tachiiri Kinshi: Kya ... don't waste you time asking or seeking answer in here. They allow rude remarks from their own kind, as soon as you being rude, they will call you names but reading from your post, there is nothing rude about it.
Why do some of them call you with rude name? .... guess this is the so call BIG & POWDERFUL Singaporean. Then again some of them are nice in here ....... YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE. Die...Die... want to kick Malaysia butt ..... can also. -
this is so true...my mom n i sick of the msia politics liao....Originally posted by Mazohyst:kyas, ur just some jealous malaysian loser who's buay song cuz we everything better than u. Everytime copy us. Thts y u malaysian everytime wanna break record... cuz u guys feel inferior haha now ur stupid petronas twin lan jeow aint tallest nemore... australia gonna built a tower thts almost twice ur twin lan jeow tower size... U malaysians all do the same thing... beat around the bush while ignoring the original issue... every year we have to put up with crap frm ur government... the day will come when we get bloody sick of ur crap. U can't push s'pore arnd forever. -
i noe... its like every year they have something to whine abt...
-
yar loh....Originally posted by Mazohyst:i noe... its like every year they have something to whine abt... -
haiz... too bad we cannot just go n wack them... not like in medieval days liddat.
-
Yah u never restrict the pupils to attend to any of the schools! Only in the form of your "fairness" qouta which is good for sory losers ( I 've no idea whose the losers) Also since u brought it up, wat the fuck do the Chinese and Indian wear the tudung for! As for the freedom of taking up Islamic Education, can u explain why some students whose academic results are good enough to take up major courses are not allocated accordingly !Originally posted by kyas:Even though in Malaysia we have various types of schools, we never restrict any of the pupils to attend to any of the schools. Malays can go to Chinese and Tamil school without any problem of wearing tudung. Even Chinese and Indian are allowed to attend the National schools or Madrasahs. No force on them to put on Islamic attire. Chinese and Indian are allowed to take various subjects including Islamic Education. None of the students are stopped from learning languages like English, Mandarin, Tamil or Arab. -
aiyo wack them for wat ? Rather let them do the wacking for us... the boner hahaOriginally posted by Mazohyst:haiz... too bad we cannot just go n wack them... not like in medieval days liddat.
-
Originally posted by Kyas on 07 January 2003 12:24pm
"Maybe for you tudung is ‘just a piece of cloth’ and it is a petty thing. Well it is not a small matter to Muslims."
__________________________________________________
Why do the MALAY men folk try so very hard to insist that the Malay WOMEN must cover their hair with the “Tudung”?
From what I understand, the Muslim men of the Middle Eastern origin feel that the beauty of the women’s hair will lead Men into TEMPTATION… hence, the need for the WOMEN to cover themselves either partially with the “Tudung”, or COMPLETELY with the Afghan type of “Burkar”.
If those MUSLIM men who can so easily fall into temptation – simply by looking at a female’s hair on HER HEAD, even that of a young girl just reaching puberty – should it not be fairer that these men should be BLIND FOLDED, instead of the women covering themselves partially or completely?
Why do Muslim men have such strong tendency to subjugate their womenfolk, and to practice harsh and cruel punishment in this age of the TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY?
It is odd that the MALAY community led by the Malaysians should follow the Middle Eastern Practices with such mindless commitment, to the extent of even sacrificing their own MALAY cultural and communal identity.
The Indonesians Muslims are more intellectual and practical, and have not given up their own national INDONESIAN identity while adopting Islam as a religion - with the exception of those few radicals who prefer to practise Islam in its FUNDAMENTAL form.
Islam was never part of the Malay community, but an adopted religion that was brought over by the Arabs during the early colonial days.
If Prime Minister Dr M MahatirÂ’s book is an authority to the origin of the Malays - (which he claimed as being native from the Yunan Province in China) - then Islam was not part of the Malay culture even in their original homeland in China.
The practice of Islam has been politicized by weak men, who find the route to power made easier by taking over the pulpits of the mosques.
Read the Straits Times of this Thursday – 8 January 2003 – and there are two leading personalities being featured.
One is a well known Male Muslim who is a News Reporter from Indonesia, and the other is a Female Politician from Malaysia.
Both are strong advocates against the radicalizing of Islam in the ways practiced by the Middle Eastern Countries, both are against the practices that are totally contrary to local cultures and the erasing of the local identity.
If one is to look back at all the archive photos of local scenes of cultural and social activities, the "Tudung" was never part of the local scene in Singapore or Malaysia.
Head scarves of the "transparent net" type was worn generaly to shade the womenfolk from the sun, or as a fashion piece; but definitely not as part of a religious dictate in the 1940's, 1950's, 1960's, and even up to the mid-1980's.
The "tudung" became an issue only with the resurgence of the Arab world through their OPEC organisation, that weilded their economic leverage over the Western World via the Oil Prices.
If Islam had originated from Africa, which remain disorganised and backward, I wonder if it will find any following amongst the Malays in Malaysia, Indonesia, and Singapore. -
Wwow man thats a new insight! with this piece of info at least now muslim and non muslim alike can better appreciate the consensus over the tudung issue. By the way wheres our "suah gu" but act "kiang" kyas? wana see juz wat kind of shit he will be sprouting after seeing your info!Originally posted by Atobe:Originally posted by Kyas on 07 January 2003 12:24pm
"Maybe for you tudung is ‘just a piece of cloth’ and it is a petty thing. Well it is not a small matter to Muslims."
__________________________________________________
Why do the MALAY men folk try so very hard to insist that the Malay WOMEN must cover their hair with the “Tudung”?
From what I understand, the Muslim men of the Middle Eastern origin feel that the beauty of the women’s hair will lead Men into TEMPTATION… hence, the need for the WOMEN to cover themselves either partially with the “Tudung”, or COMPLETELY with the Afghan type of “Burkar”.
If those MUSLIM men who can so easily fall into temptation – simply by looking at a female’s hair on HER HEAD, even that of a young girl just reaching puberty – should it not be fairer that these men should be BLIND FOLDED, instead of the women covering themselves partially or completely?
Why do Muslim men have such strong tendency to subjugate their womenfolk, and to practice harsh and cruel punishment in this age of the TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY?
It is odd that the MALAY community led by the Malaysians should follow the Middle Eastern Practices with such mindless commitment, to the extent of even sacrificing their own MALAY cultural and communal identity.
The Indonesians Muslims are more intellectual and practical, and have not given up their own national INDONESIAN identity while adopting Islam as a religion - with the exception of those few radicals who prefer to practise Islam in its FUNDAMENTAL form.
Islam was never part of the Malay community, but an adopted religion that was brought over by the Arabs during the early colonial days.
If Prime Minister Dr M MahatirÂ’s book is an authority to the origin of the Malays - (which he claimed as being native from the Yunan Province in China) - then Islam was not part of the Malay culture even in their original homeland in China.
The practice of Islam has been politicized by weak men, who find the route to power made easier by taking over the pulpits of the mosques.
Read the Straits Times of this Thursday – 8 January 2003 – and there are two leading personalities being featured.
One is a well known Male Muslim who is a News Reporter from Indonesia, and the other is a Female Politician from Malaysia.
Both are strong advocates against the radicalizing of Islam in the ways practiced by the Middle Eastern Countries, both are against the practices that are totally contrary to local cultures and the erasing of the local identity.
If one is to look back at all the archive photos of local scenes of cultural and social activities, the "Tudung" was never part of the local scene in Singapore or Malaysia.
Head scarves of the "transparent net" type was worn generaly to shade the womenfolk from the sun, or as a fashion piece; but definitely not as part of a religious dictate in the 1940's, 1950's, 1960's, and even up to the mid-1980's.
The "tudung" became an issue only with the resurgence of the Arab world through their OPEC organisation, that weilded their economic leverage over the Western World via the Oil Prices.
If Islam had originated from Africa, which remain disorganised and backward, I wonder if it will find any following amongst the Malays in Malaysia, Indonesia, and Singapore.
Well there can only be 2 senario:
1 sory loser gone back up to his anal hole
2 sory loser gone back to his anal hole and bring back more shit to yaya! -
Sorry for keeping you wait Shawnshank. It seems that our discussion has lead to questions about Islam. We are moving towards sensitive issues that may create hatred among the community with different believe. I am worried that some of my points may insult others. Questioning the rule of religion is a very dangerous act especially in countries like ours. Just like if I questioned on the trinity concept or burning replicas for the dead (just an example).
It is really difficult for me to explain about Islam to a non-believer like you. I will answer some of the above responses that I think I am able to answer since my knowledge on Islam is also quite limited. This is just to share some info or views and provide more ideas for you on what Islam is all about. Nobody is perfect and knows all.
It is not the Malays who insist that women must wear ‘tudung’. It is rule of Islam that provide a guideline on which part of the body should be covered i.e. for men – from the navel to the knee, and for female – only face and hands are allowed to be exposed (the purpose of wearing ‘tudung’ is not just to cover hair, it is also for covering areas encompassing ears, neck and parts of the chest). The use of ‘burkar’ is actually influenced by the culture in Afghanistan (note that culture and religion is different). No such ruling in Islam to cover the whole head.
An easy example to differentiate culture and religion is on the use of ‘songkok’. In Islam the male followers are encouraged to cover their heads especially during the prayer (‘sunnah’). That is the basic guideline by Islam. Culture comes into the picture when a follower wears various kind of materials to fulfil the ‘sunnah’ by using “songkok’ for Malays, Arabian turban for Arabs, ‘kopiah’ by most of the Indians etc. depending on the local identity.
The objective of this guideline for female is actually to protect women from being seen as a subject of sexual appeal. This to ensure that the beauty of female can only be seen by close relatives (‘muhrim’) and the ones who entitled to see e.g. father, sisters, cousins and husband. The reason is not to discriminate women but to preserve and appreciate the value of a women’s splendour. Why not blind fold the men? Hehehh… I suggest u to try and walk around the town blind folded. Then you will know why.
It is the culture that subjugates the women not the religion. Islam never allows women to be subjugated. Which part of the Islamic ruling subjugates the women? Before you answer, please make a reference to any event and statement in Quran for such allegation. If you think there is, I am very sure that it is due to local cultural influence or merely miss-interpretation.
Islam is not an adoption of Arabs’ religion. The people of Arab and the language are simply the medium of interaction to convey massage or ruling by God but then unfortunately, you are not a believer. It does not make them nobler than the other races. They are not the benchmark. How noble a Muslim is dependent on the level of obedient to the ruling of Islam. And it was not started only after Prophet Muhammad received the first ‘wahyu’ (message from God). It has no starting point and has no ending. Even before the creation of Adam and then Eve, right to Solomon, Joseph, Moses, Abraham, Noah, Jesus, Muhammad (not in sequence order) etc to the future. The religion is not only for Arab people. It is for the entire human being. Even the Chinese in some parts of China are Muslims. We still keep parts of the cultures that do not go against the guidelines in the religion e.g. the use of ‘baju Melayu’ among the Malays and the Chinese architectural design for mosque in China.
It is wrong to state that ‘tudung’ was never part of the local scene before. It has always been the rule of Islam but it was yet to be followed due to lack of awareness on the part of the Muslims themselves or due to colonial influence. The recent trend indicates the higher level of understanding and appreciation on the subject. One cannot be accused as radical just because of the ‘tudung’. It is just a way to cover some parts of the head. Just like wearing caps or the trendy fashion gypsy style (I don’t know what they call it). What is so frightening about that?
Wey… Atobe! Where the hell did you get such an idea that the ‘tudung’ issue started with the resurgence of the Arab. OPEC is absolutely not relevant with our discussion. You simply say whatever you want to say without knowing the actual facts. Most of them are merely assumptions and accusations.
I hope we will be discussing issues without purposely offends any groups. You people have been living together for so long as multi-ethnic community. I am sure all of you will understand. -
Blah blah blah... one long string of matlaysian bullshit. Go clean your ass with your government propaganda newspaper and fuck each ppl up the ass like ur senile old man did to anwar.Originally posted by kyas:Sorry for keeping you wait Shawnshank. It seems that our discussion has lead to questions about Islam. We are moving towards sensitive issues that may create hatred among the community with different believe. I am worried that some of my points may insult others. Questioning the rule of religion is a very dangerous act especially in countries like ours. Just like if I questioned on the trinity concept or burning replicas for the dead (just an example).
It is really difficult for me to explain about Islam to a non-believer like you. I will answer some of the above responses that I think I am able to answer since my knowledge on Islam is also quite limited. This is just to share some info or views and provide more ideas for you on what Islam is all about. Nobody is perfect and knows all.
It is not the Malays who insist that women must wear ‘tudung’. It is rule of Islam that provide a guideline on which part of the body should be covered i.e. for men – from the navel to the knee, and for female – only face and hands are allowed to be exposed (the purpose of wearing ‘tudung’ is not just to cover hair, it is also for covering areas encompassing ears, neck and parts of the chest). The use of ‘burkar’ is actually influenced by the culture in Afghanistan (note that culture and religion is different). No such ruling in Islam to cover the whole head.
An easy example to differentiate culture and religion is on the use of ‘songkok’. In Islam the male followers are encouraged to cover their heads especially during the prayer (‘sunnah’). That is the basic guideline by Islam. Culture comes into the picture when a follower wears various kind of materials to fulfil the ‘sunnah’ by using “songkok’ for Malays, Arabian turban for Arabs, ‘kopiah’ by most of the Indians etc. depending on the local identity.
The objective of this guideline for female is actually to protect women from being seen as a subject of sexual appeal. This to ensure that the beauty of female can only be seen by close relatives (‘muhrim’) and the ones who entitled to see e.g. father, sisters, cousins and husband. The reason is not to discriminate women but to preserve and appreciate the value of a women’s splendour. Why not blind fold the men? Hehehh… I suggest u to try and walk around the town blind folded. Then you will know why.
It is the culture that subjugates the women not the religion. Islam never allows women to be subjugated. Which part of the Islamic ruling subjugates the women? Before you answer, please make a reference to any event and statement in Quran for such allegation. If you think there is, I am very sure that it is due to local cultural influence or merely miss-interpretation.
Islam is not an adoption of Arabs’ religion. The people of Arab and the language are simply the medium of interaction to convey massage or ruling by God but then unfortunately, you are not a believer. It does not make them nobler than the other races. They are not the benchmark. How noble a Muslim is dependent on the level of obedient to the ruling of Islam. And it was not started only after Prophet Muhammad received the first ‘wahyu’ (message from God). It has no starting point and has no ending. Even before the creation of Adam and then Eve, right to Solomon, Joseph, Moses, Abraham, Noah, Jesus, Muhammad (not in sequence order) etc to the future. The religion is not only for Arab people. It is for the entire human being. Even the Chinese in some parts of China are Muslims. We still keep parts of the cultures that do not go against the guidelines in the religion e.g. the use of ‘baju Melayu’ among the Malays and the Chinese architectural design for mosque in China.
It is wrong to state that ‘tudung’ was never part of the local scene before. It has always been the rule of Islam but it was yet to be followed due to lack of awareness on the part of the Muslims themselves or due to colonial influence. The recent trend indicates the higher level of understanding and appreciation on the subject. One cannot be accused as radical just because of the ‘tudung’. It is just a way to cover some parts of the head. Just like wearing caps or the trendy fashion gypsy style (I don’t know what they call it). What is so frightening about that?
Wey… Atobe! Where the hell did you get such an idea that the ‘tudung’ issue started with the resurgence of the Arab. OPEC is absolutely not relevant with our discussion. You simply say whatever you want to say without knowing the actual facts. Most of them are merely assumptions and accusations.
I hope we will be discussing issues without purposely offends any groups. You people have been living together for so long as multi-ethnic community. I am sure all of you will understand. -
WoW...Originally posted by kyas:Sorry for keeping you wait Shawnshank. It seems that our discussion has lead to questions about Islam. We are moving towards sensitive issues that may create hatred among the community with different believe. I am worried that some of my points may insult others. Questioning the rule of religion is a very dangerous act especially in countries like ours. Just like if I questioned on the trinity concept or burning replicas for the dead (just an example).
It is really difficult for me to explain about Islam to a non-believer like you. I will answer some of the above responses that I think I am able to answer since my knowledge on Islam is also quite limited. This is just to share some info or views and provide more ideas for you on what Islam is all about. Nobody is perfect and knows all.
It is not the Malays who insist that women must wear ‘tudung’. It is rule of Islam that provide a guideline on which part of the body should be covered i.e. for men – from the navel to the knee, and for female – only face and hands are allowed to be exposed (the purpose of wearing ‘tudung’ is not just to cover hair, it is also for covering areas encompassing ears, neck and parts of the chest). The use of ‘burkar’ is actually influenced by the culture in Afghanistan (note that culture and religion is different). No such ruling in Islam to cover the whole head.
An easy example to differentiate culture and religion is on the use of ‘songkok’. In Islam the male followers are encouraged to cover their heads especially during the prayer (‘sunnah’). That is the basic guideline by Islam. Culture comes into the picture when a follower wears various kind of materials to fulfil the ‘sunnah’ by using “songkok’ for Malays, Arabian turban for Arabs, ‘kopiah’ by most of the Indians etc. depending on the local identity.
The objective of this guideline for female is actually to protect women from being seen as a subject of sexual appeal. This to ensure that the beauty of female can only be seen by close relatives (‘muhrim’) and the ones who entitled to see e.g. father, sisters, cousins and husband. The reason is not to discriminate women but to preserve and appreciate the value of a women’s splendour. Why not blind fold the men? Hehehh… I suggest u to try and walk around the town blind folded. Then you will know why.
It is the culture that subjugates the women not the religion. Islam never allows women to be subjugated. Which part of the Islamic ruling subjugates the women? Before you answer, please make a reference to any event and statement in Quran for such allegation. If you think there is, I am very sure that it is due to local cultural influence or merely miss-interpretation.
Islam is not an adoption of Arabs’ religion. The people of Arab and the language are simply the medium of interaction to convey massage or ruling by God but then unfortunately, you are not a believer. It does not make them nobler than the other races. They are not the benchmark. How noble a Muslim is dependent on the level of obedient to the ruling of Islam. And it was not started only after Prophet Muhammad received the first ‘wahyu’ (message from God). It has no starting point and has no ending. Even before the creation of Adam and then Eve, right to Solomon, Joseph, Moses, Abraham, Noah, Jesus, Muhammad (not in sequence order) etc to the future. The religion is not only for Arab people. It is for the entire human being. Even the Chinese in some parts of China are Muslims. We still keep parts of the cultures that do not go against the guidelines in the religion e.g. the use of ‘baju Melayu’ among the Malays and the Chinese architectural design for mosque in China.
It is wrong to state that ‘tudung’ was never part of the local scene before. It has always been the rule of Islam but it was yet to be followed due to lack of awareness on the part of the Muslims themselves or due to colonial influence. The recent trend indicates the higher level of understanding and appreciation on the subject. One cannot be accused as radical just because of the ‘tudung’. It is just a way to cover some parts of the head. Just like wearing caps or the trendy fashion gypsy style (I don’t know what they call it). What is so frightening about that?
Wey… Atobe! Where the hell did you get such an idea that the ‘tudung’ issue started with the resurgence of the Arab. OPEC is absolutely not relevant with our discussion. You simply say whatever you want to say without knowing the actual facts. Most of them are merely assumptions and accusations.
I hope we will be discussing issues without purposely offends any groups. You people have been living together for so long as multi-ethnic community. I am sure all of you will understand. kyas' profound wisdom is making me feel all jiggly! So much so... I think I feel a song coming on!
Die Fahne hoch die Reihen fest geschlossen
S. A. marschiert mit ruhig festem Schritt
Kam'raden die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen
Marschier'n im Geist in unsern Reihen mit
Die Strasse frei den braunen Batallionen
Die Strasse frei dem Sturmabteilungsmann
Es schau'n auf's Hackenkreuz voll Hoffung schon Millionen
Der Tag fur Freiheit und fur Brot bricht an
Zum letzen Mal wird nun Appell geblasen
Zum Kampfe steh'n wir alle schon bereit
Bald flattern Hitler-fahnen Uber allen Strassen
Die Knechtschaft dauert nur mehr kurze Zeit
Die Fahne hoch die Reihen fest geschlossen
S. A. marschiert mit ruhig festem Schritt
Kam'raden die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen
Marschier'n im Geist in unsern Reihen mit