Malaysia is a RACIST Country
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Well... dinosaur never see Man nor Man never see dinosaur in the first place... there is a time lag of a few million years after the extinction of dinosaur (Ice Age) before the birth of Man...
Having tat fact in mind, then I ask why doesn't religion explain anything about the extinction of dinosaur ?? Doesn't tat seem very important to know as since God can kill dinosaur in almost an instant, why wouldn't he do it to Man ? Anyway since God is so good in his way, and we cannot understand his actions, we can not understand why they will rid us when it happened either.... My explanation is tat... no one know about existence of dinosaurs during the earlier days... it is discovered about 1000 AD and above, way after sources were written... Thus no mention in sources, since they don't know, they don't have to explain in folktales and sources etc :p Anyway... u believe in that dinosaurs exist right... the bones etc...
Just think about it... why kill dinosaurs ?? Is it because they fail to entertain ?? -
Originally posted by Atobe:
This is just a continuation of the previous article of Gary Miller.
Hello Kyas,
Your three postings on 21 January 2003 remains without any impressions left on me, and merely confirms my last reply to you, and that is
[b]Religion (and GOD) is created by MAN
Yusuf Islam (aka Cat Stevens) is the epitome of a typical Western Man, who is disenchanted and bored by his own familiar culture and society; and fell into romantic embrace of a foreign culture that mystify him. He is by no means an intelligent person, although he is creative in his songs, which reflects largely his own disappointment with his own life, culture, society, and family life.
Gary Miller (aka Abdul-Ahad-Omar) is no great Philosopher- Thinker, whom one can place beside Homer, Karl Marx, Bertrand Russell, or other similar radical dissident luminaries of their own period.
Your writing confirms the fact that Religion is dependent on Human Recording of some Human visions of events that is awe-inspiring.
To name a few, some of these Human Religious Records are the Jewish Torah, the Islamic Koran, the Bible, (which translate the Jewish Torah into readable English language – but carry with it the writings of Jesus’ Disciples as reflected in the New Testament).
The practice of religion in this Twenty-First Century is still dependent on the Human Interpretation of these Ancient Writings, by some Human Being appointed as a Religious Leader - by some Inner Council of Other Humans, whose own appointments are questionable.
Whether the Religions concerned are Anglican, Methodist, Protestants, Lutherans, Roman Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Jewry, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Taoism, Shintoism, and all other Human Faiths – they are all dependent on some HUMAN Interpretation of Phenomena.
Much of your writing confirms my stated position, in which you have written the close observation of the customary practices as interpreted from your Koran.
The “Big Bang Theory” confirms Man’s continuous search for an answer to his vain quest to find out his origin, his purpose on this earth, and his destiny.
The fact that research and knowledge coincide, does not confirm the correctness of one religion or its superiority over the others.
It merely confirms that the Human Mind is the same regardless of Religion adopted or followed or observed or practiced.
When a Society adopts an ‘Ancient Religion’ and allow it to advocate the suppression of any member of its own Human Race – by the evil and narrow minded interpretation of HISTORICAL records – it merely show the inadequacy of that Society to deal with the social, political, economic, and religious challenges of the Twenty-First Century that its society is facing.
[/b]
Yes he is no great Philosopher- Thinker, whom one can place beside Homer, Karl Marx, Bertrand Russell, or other similar radical dissident luminaries of their own period. Do not forget that the article is all about facts that we can always verify (go and check for yourself... this not just another theory) and comparison with Al QuranÂ… well who is Chua Lee Hoong and Cheah Sin Ann anywayÂ…
The Expanding Heavens
Let me first show more of our examination of the Qur'an, and then an examination of some words of prophets to find this point of convergence. In chapter fifty one, verse forty seven, it is mentioned that the heavens are expanding. As I mentioned earlier, this is in connection with the "Big Bang" origin of the universe, as it is usually called, and it was in 1973 that the Nobel prize was awarded to three men who were confirming that, after all, the universe is expanding.
The comments of Muslims over the centuries on this verse which speaks of the heavens doing exactly that is very interesting. The wisest among them had stated that the words are very dear, that the heavens are expanding, but they could not imagine how that could be so. But they were content to leave the words as they were, to say: "Allah knows best."
The City of Iram
The Qur'an mentions a city by the name of Iram (89:7). The city of Iram has been unknown to history, so unknown that even some Muslim commentators, out of embarrassment or feeling apologetic for their religion, have commented on this mention of the city in the Qur'an as being perhaps figurative, that Iram was possibly a man and not a city.
In 1973 the excavation in Syria at the site of the ancient city of Eblus uncovered the largest collection of cuneiform writings on clay tablets ever assembled. In fact, the library discovered in Eblus contains more day tablets that are more than four thousand years old than all the other tablets combined from all the other sites.
Interestingly enough, you will find the details in the National Geographic of 1978 which confirms that in those tablets the city of Iram is mentioned. The people of Eblus used to do business with the people of Iram. So here in 1973, comes confirmation of the fact that, after all, there really was an ancient city by that name, wherever it was. How did it find its way into the Qur'an, we might ask?
Those Muslims who may have offered their comments, trying to explain away this reference that they were uncomfortable with, were outsmarted by the author of the Qur'an. They are those who would outsmart the author of the Qur'an They would attempt it. Primarily, their activity would involve trying to produce the evidence that the author of this book had a primitive understanding of the world around us.
The Smallest Matter
For example, there is a word which is translated today usually in Arabic as zarrah. This is usually translated as "atom" and it is usually thought of in Arabic as being the smallest item available at one time. Perhaps the Arabs thought it was an ant or a grain of dust. Today the word is usually translated as "atom".
Those who would outsmart the author of the Qur'an have insisted that, well, the atom is not after all the smallest piece of matter because in this century it has been discovered that even the atom is made of still smaller pieces of matter. Is it then possible to outsmart the author who chose to use this word? Well, there is an interesting verse, in chapter ten, verse sixty one, which speaks of items the size of a zarrah, (atom) or smaller.
There is no possibility that on this subject someone is going to say a new discovery has outdated the words of the Qur'an on the issue of the size of matter or the ultimate particles. The verse talks about items the size of a zarrah (atom) or smaller. -
Anyway about religion tat teaches moral etc... tat is true
I didn't say religion is not without its merits... The number of good deeds done increased due to religion. Wat I wanna say is tat the sources aren't really so true to believe blindly or defend its cause valiantly, thus should evolved with time to better suit the modern Man. I can see no trouble with Barbie dolls, why deprived little girls from them ? doesn't religion have to go with the times by adding new rules like no smoking, no drugs and dispelling rules like having 4 wives and covering the whole head and eating pork when u feel like it... They may be dirty, but how come Japanese tat lives the longest eat pork too ??
Anyway who is the better person, doing good things because they really help the others or doing good things so tat he can get the carrot of going to heaven without the stick of suffering in hell... -
Remember the Noah's Ark? why it was bulit? Didn't He destroyed the human race as well except a few?Originally posted by stupidissmart:Well... dinosaur never see Man nor Man never see dinosaur in the first place... there is a time lag of a few million years after the extinction of dinosaur (Ice Age) before the birth of Man...
Having tat fact in mind, then I ask why doesn't religion explain anything about the extinction of dinosaur ?? Doesn't tat seem very important to know as since God can kill dinosaur in almost an instant, why wouldn't he do it to Man ? Anyway since God is so good in his way, and we cannot understand his actions, we can not understand why they will rid us when it happened either.... My explanation is tat... no one know about existence of dinosaurs during the earlier days... it is discovered about 1000 AD and above, way after sources were written... Thus no mention in sources, since they don't know, they don't have to explain in folktales and sources etc :p Anyway... u believe in that dinosaurs exist right... the bones etc...
Just think about it... why kill dinosaurs ?? Is it because they fail to entertain ??
no one knows about existence of dinosaurs during the earlier days... it is discovered about 1000 AD and above, way after sources were written... that was why in the Quran mentioned Adam was taught by God the names all things before he became the khalifah... to show that they (the creatures) even existed before God created Adam and Eve... -
The ruling for statue or doll is it should not be looked exactly the same like real human. This is to avoid people from worshipping statues and to differentiate the Muslims with the ones who worship statues. Are there any human being that is as small as the barbie doll? No. therefore it is allowed. (reminds me of some people who worship Maradona... hahah lawak!!)Originally posted by stupidissmart:Anyway about religion tat teaches moral etc... tat is true I didn't say religion is not without its merits... The number of good deeds done increased due to religion. Wat I wanna say is tat the sources aren't really so true to believe blindly or defend its cause valiantly, thus should evolved with time to better suit the modern Man. I can see no trouble with Barbie dolls, why deprived little girls from them ? doesn't religion have to go with the times by adding new rules like no smoking, no drugs and dispelling rules like having 4 wives and covering the whole head and eating pork when u feel like it... They may be dirty, but how come Japanese tat lives the longest eat pork too ??
Anyway who is the better person, doing good things because they really help the others or doing good things so tat he can get the carrot of going to heaven without the stick of suffering in hell...
The guideline is do not commit yourself to something that will affect your health - isn't that enough?
poligamy and burkah already discussed in the previous posts.
you know pigs are dirty... what more to explain? -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:Hehehe... I like the replies recently... I got a religion too... Anti religion
Anyway about the concept of morals, it is true tat science doesn't really teach u about things like returning a found purse or giving up your seat for the old folks. However by probability, if u do more good things, and tat make more people do more things, the chances tat one do good things to u will increase Tat is why I try to do more good things as much as I felt capable to do... Anyway the law does provide something to prevent us from doing something too bad
Anyway... Earth is billions of years old !!! Dinosaur bones proves them !! about 6000 years is probably when human invent writing !!! ANyway oil aren't thousands of years old only
Well... Darwin does explain something like why your little toe is getting more and more useless... and some part of your organ (appendices... gall ) seems to be fading away and why people reproduce (to make better offspring) concept of beauty (genes pool) and the digging up of old bodies of Man in some cold places tat look like half man, half apes... The last point seems to be the best proof as they r using tools (only human use tools) and they r older than 6000 !!! If u believe in genes, DNA, than u have to believe in Darwin Evolution theory !!! 
Unfortunately you have obviously not done the homework i assigned you...
Nah Im just kidding.
If anyone is interested then here is the website that provides a little food for thought for die hard Darwinists...
http://www.alternativescience.com/darwinism.htm
I offer this in the spirit of discussion. Sometimes people tend to forget that Darwins Evolution is still a theory. Thats why its not called Darwins Fact of Evolution...
P.S.
"However by probability, if u do more good things, and tat make more people do more things, the chances tat one do good things to u will increase." Im sorry but i really didnt understand this bit...How does the probability of good things being done to you... increase with the number of good things YOU do? Surely you mean the probability that some random person will enjoy the benefits your good acts will increase.
Im disappointed you're not more tolerant of religion now even after all this discussion. May science provide you with all the answers you seek... -
On that note I would really like to hear what you think about the idea that the restriction against pork was actually for health and hygiene reasons rather than against the animal itself and todays practical revulsion of the animal is an interpretation error. I mean...lots of animals are dirty. In fact so were we...heck everything was filthy in the old days. Pigs are considered especially (it seems to me) haram...why is that?Originally posted by kyas:you know pigs are dirty... what more to explain? -
Ok... I get it now...
U guys feel tat Man can have 4 wives if they can afford it while girls have to bear with 1/4 of a husbands, making them more like concubines or mistresses.
U think tat pigs r dirty because they have some dirty habbits and do not regard that after washing they r proven clean, nutritious, edible and delicious. Even a drop of pig's oil is poison
u guys feel tat covering a girl up so tat guys won't have dirty thought is ok even though the girl is hot and humid inside and troublesome to moving around
u guys feel tat praying 5 times a day trying to pacify a vain Being even though it is a perfectly waste of time and trouble
u guys feel tat all your relatives must be muslim otherwise tat deems u as non muslim even though tat mean u have to force lovers apart just because he is of different faith
A man can divorce a girl by saying tat he want to divorce her without considering the girls feeling while a girl cannot do the same
Conclucion : U guys like to give excuses and potray silly reasons for things tat sounds so absurb to make them feel logical... U guys feel tat woman and man don't have equal rights... using to quran as a shield to give yourself unfair advantages and justification for your action
Solution : I hope one day someone great will lead all muslim to a land where they are seperated from the rest of the world. They will never come to a compromise or ever change. I was really hoping tat they think they r at least partially wrong... -
I tell u a true story about me to explain the probabilty thingy...
I used to keep the money in wallets when I find them Heck, why not ? When I lose my wallet, the rest of the world will do this to me too isn't it ? It is untill after I lost my wallet, then I understand the pain of losing a wallet. However the guy tat found my wallet actually take the trouble to return it to the reception. I never knwo who is the person but tat leaves a deep impression on me. Now I always take any found wallet to a proper place, without actually keeping any of the cash or things. I did it because someone had actually returned the wallet to me untouched. Wat I was hoping is tat whoever received my gesture of returning wallet will do the same and return the wallet to the proper place instead of keeping them. thus there will be more wallet returners in society then wallet keepers. Next time I lose a wallet, it being picked by wallet returners will be higher... Now wat I wish other to do for me, I will do for the others first... I hope tat can touch their hearts though if they don't it is okie Sciencetifically speaking, I actually increase the happiness in the world :p I believe tat it will has this chain effect, though naive as it sounds The joy of finding a lost wallet beat the joy of keeping others a 100 fold. -
definitely the best forum discussion i've read so far. bout this religion thing.whoever raised the issue, it definitely beats reading bout the original discussion topic. k, i know this might sound kinda lame and others might just kill it of by saying excuses, but this is wat my pastor offered me when i asked him bout all the dinosaurs and things that we have never heard of in the bible. God is our creator. He determines wat we need to know, when we need to know, and how we are to know of it. if He were to describe every being He has created, we would not be able to distinguish wat He actually wanted us to learn from it. The bible wouldn't be a bible if it had all that knowledge and information, it'd be a complete encyclopedia guide!! how's that?
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Diseases caused by pigs and by taking pork
Name of parasites and the diseases caused
1. Fasciolopsis Buski – Persistent Diarrhoea
2. Round Worms – Pneumonia, suffocation, jaundice
3. Hook Worms – Anaemia, T.B., Diarrhoea and Typhoid
4. Paragonimus – Bleeding of the lungs (Endemic Haemptysis)
5. Clonorchis Sinensis – Clonorchiasis (liver disease)
6. Giganthorinchus Gigas – Anaemia and digestive disorder
7. Metastrongylus Apri – Bronchitis, Abscess of the Lungs
8. Swine Erysipelas – Ordinary Erysipelas Disease
9. Tubercle Bacillus – Tuberculosis
10. Taenia Solium – Diarrhoea, Digestive disorder, Anaemia, Chronic Invalidism
11. Trichinella Spiratis – Trichinosis or Trichinelliasis
12. Variola Suilla – Small pox
13. Sarcoptes Scabiei – Mange of Scabies
14. Fusiformis Necrofurus – Foot-rot
15. Solmonella Cholerasuis – Cholera
I get the above from a book written by a Chinese Muslim Haji Ibrahim Ma. So if you want to know more about the parasites Â… and the diseaseÂ… please do not ask meÂ… too many to explainÂ… hehehÂ… look for yourselfÂ… anyway itÂ’s the people who eat pork who should be worriedÂ… -
A table of fats in meat
According to a table in the book "A Study of Nutrition" which is used in the Universities and published by Chung Ch'eng Press of Taiwan, it was found that fat content in pork is more than in any other meat.
Fat pork 91%
Fat beef 35%
Fat mutton 56%
Semi-fat pork 60%
Semi-fat beef 20%
Semi-fat mutton 35%
Lean pork 29%
Lean beef 6%
Lean mutton 51%
Ham 51%
Here again is scientific proof of the contents of pork which is quite ominious to those who are fond of pork "delicious is the roated pigling", they say
Again, another article written by Haji Ibrahim Ma. -
According to medical research, mutton and beef require three hours to be digested in the stomach but pork needs four hours.
There are many things in the world which man must know how to differentiate before putting them into his mouth. there are many plants which are edible, while some are poisonous and can kill, although many of these plants are medicinal herbs. Similarly there is flesh which is harmful to man. Naturally pork is not so poisonous as to kill people on the spot. The poison is latent in pork as has been explained aboved. It is not as nourishing as any other meat and it may cause prolonged suffering.
People may say "the chinese have been eating pork for countless generation and it is the national food for the chinese and yet the chinese exist in large numbers in the world. But please note that the chinese are in general compelled to be vegetarians. Peasants who comprise at least 80% of the total population of China enjoy the eating of pork just about 3 times a year viz. at the beginning of the year, the 5th day of the 5th Moon and the 5th day of 8th Moon. I can confirm that no peasants in china could consume 24 pound of pork a year in the past. Today they cannot eat more than 12 pound a year. Please note that in the previous articles many of the diseases caused by pork came from china.
another article wrote by haji ibrahim ma -
The majority of the chinese should not eat pork
The majority means those who still follow the teaching of Confucius. The teaching of Confucius and Mencius have been based on LEE-CHI (the book of rites). In Chapter SHAO YI it says "CHUIN TZU PU SHEH HOON YU" which means, "a gentleman does not eat flesh of pig and dog", (according to translation of Rev. R.R. Mathew in his Great Chinese -English Dictionary). To ascertain the real meaning of these 6 words I had asked through the Penang Kwong Wah Press members of the public to offer explanation in modern Chinese. After exchanges of views the chief editor of the newspaper, Mr. Longfellow W.C. Liu asked the educationist and famous Chinese scholar Mr. Kuan Ch'en Min wo agreed that those words mean "No gentlemen does eat pork or dog"
Chinese who still accept Confucianism as a religion or teaching and the Book of Rites as a valuable book should at least not eat prok or dog.
Another article wrote by Haji Ibrahim Ma -
Dear Kyas:
You bring great items of interest to our attention and for that I thank you.
However I still dont see any religious reason to avoid pork. If the things you've posted happen to be the reasons then, to my understanding, Islam forbids pork because it is unhealthy? While I applaud this evidence of an early public health policy, I fail to see why only pork is singled out? Im sure you understand my confusion. Saying avoid an animal because it is unhealthy is quite different from saying that that animal is haram...
Also, I already had an idea that raw pork can be incredibly deadly...but do all those scary things survive cooking? -
Originally posted by Iknowu:definitely the best forum discussion i've read so far. bout this religion thing.whoever raised the issue, it definitely beats reading bout the original discussion topic. k, i know this might sound kinda lame and others might just kill it of by saying excuses, but this is wat my pastor offered me when i asked him bout all the dinosaurs and things that we have never heard of in the bible. God is our creator. He determines wat we need to know, when we need to know, and how we are to know of it. if He were to describe every being He has created, we would not be able to distinguish wat He actually wanted us to learn from it. The bible wouldn't be a bible if it had all that knowledge and information, it'd be a complete encyclopedia guide!! how's that? Thats why a very literal reading of any religious text and utter and complete faith in it should be discouraged. I believe it is a guiding text. The ability to conciously perceive our surroundings and react and learn is Humankind's greatest gift. Whether it was divinely given or not, I believe it should not be strangled by closed minds...especially when dealing with something so important as belief in a greater being. The problem has always been and always will be people from opposite sides trying to impose their view on others...
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There's a reason why pork is popular eating in many countries, that's because pigs are the most efficent at converting feed to meat, about 25 percent of feed in fact. For poorer communities, rearing pigs is the most penny wise for lifestock.
As for the supposed "ill" effects of eating pork and all the supposed "toxins" and such. There has been I repeat, NO conclusive scientific research done into pork that has proven any of this. And the supposed list of diseases you can get via eating pork is misleading, for the risk of catching ill effects from other meats or even vegetables are also present. Though of course, common sense is encouraged in eating pork, avoid the lard if you can and don't overload on it, because it's has the highest energy content of all the meats you can eat. Eating pork is like eating about any other meat. Though personally I'm a chicken and lamb person.
Other then that, trying to find scientific reasons not to eat pork to justify religion is pretty much lik trying to get a square peg into a round hole. Most of the scientific "reasons" put up dun hold water when put to critical scientific method. The reasons appears, are for other then actual metaphysical reasons. -
Let's see, after consulting some Food Drugs Admin lifestock webpages, the risk of these diseases can also be contracted via eating other foodstuffs that are not pork. And it does not appear to work experimentally too, we have yet to see truckloads of people at hospitals from these diseases, if at all. Another fact that is supposed to be scientific that fails proper scientific method again. As a matter of fact, if we have to take what he says seriously and follow them true scientifically, then eating any kind of mammilian meat would entail certain destruction for the human race.Originally posted by kyas:Diseases caused by pigs and by taking pork
Name of parasites and the diseases caused
1. Fasciolopsis Buski – Persistent Diarrhoea
2. Round Worms – Pneumonia, suffocation, jaundice
3. Hook Worms – Anaemia, T.B., Diarrhoea and Typhoid
4. Paragonimus – Bleeding of the lungs (Endemic Haemptysis)
5. Clonorchis Sinensis – Clonorchiasis (liver disease)
6. Giganthorinchus Gigas – Anaemia and digestive disorder
7. Metastrongylus Apri – Bronchitis, Abscess of the Lungs
8. Swine Erysipelas – Ordinary Erysipelas Disease
9. Tubercle Bacillus – Tuberculosis
10. Taenia Solium – Diarrhoea, Digestive disorder, Anaemia, Chronic Invalidism
11. Trichinella Spiratis – Trichinosis or Trichinelliasis
12. Variola Suilla – Small pox
13. Sarcoptes Scabiei – Mange of Scabies
14. Fusiformis Necrofurus – Foot-rot
15. Solmonella Cholerasuis – Cholera
I get the above from a book written by a Chinese Muslim Haji Ibrahim Ma. So if you want to know more about the parasites Â… and the diseaseÂ… please do not ask meÂ… too many to explainÂ… hehehÂ… look for yourselfÂ… anyway itÂ’s the people who eat pork who should be worriedÂ…
Haji Ibrahim Ma's efforts are laudable, and I suggest we take what he states with a large pinch of salted pork.
Nuff said. -
I'm just pointing out tht mohammed is a thief, robber and a bandit. If he were alive, we could sue him for copyright infringement. The koran is pirated.Originally posted by awestruck:To :Mazohyst
Are u even remotely relligious? Your last post was just plain antagonistic. Why do u have to go and insult another religion?
I freely admit that Im not religious but i do recognise the finer points it tries to teach people. You very obviously have sadly missed those points.
Thus you are either a: not religious
b: wrongly religous
c: an angry person hiding behind the internet
d: some other whacked up crazy
Its people like you that make me sick.
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man... pigs arent the onli animals tht carry disease... you noe y u guys dun eat port n dun like dogs? Cuz mohammed din lyk them, so he kinda decided to force everyone not to like them too...Originally posted by kyas:The majority of the chinese should not eat pork
The majority means those who still follow the teaching of Confucius. The teaching of Confucius and Mencius have been based on LEE-CHI (the book of rites). In Chapter SHAO YI it says "CHUIN TZU PU SHEH HOON YU" which means, "a gentleman does not eat flesh of pig and dog", (according to translation of Rev. R.R. Mathew in his Great Chinese -English Dictionary). To ascertain the real meaning of these 6 words I had asked through the Penang Kwong Wah Press members of the public to offer explanation in modern Chinese. After exchanges of views the chief editor of the newspaper, Mr. Longfellow W.C. Liu asked the educationist and famous Chinese scholar Mr. Kuan Ch'en Min wo agreed that those words mean "No gentlemen does eat pork or dog"
Chinese who still accept Confucianism as a religion or teaching and the Book of Rites as a valuable book should at least not eat prok or dog.
Another article wrote by Haji Ibrahim Ma -
eeerr...u r...erhm.....2 direct liao......Originally posted by Mazohyst:I'm just pointing out tht mohammed is a thief, robber and a bandit. If he were alive, we could sue him for copyright infringement. The koran is pirated. -
watch wat you are saying.this is highly sensative.such replies are a threat to the religious harmony of singapore.I have no choice but to close it.Originally posted by Mazohyst:I'm just pointing out tht mohammed is a thief, robber and a bandit. If he were alive, we could sue him for copyright infringement. The koran is pirated.