More protest marches break out in Burma
-
First there were the monks, then now the nuns have joined in.
Let's hope that this momentum builds up towards the weakening of the Burmese junta.
-------------------------
Nuns in Burma anti-junta rallies
Burma's rulers fear they may appear weak if protests continue
About 5,000 Burmese monks have been joined by nuns for the first time on the seventh day of protests calling for an end to the military government.
Cheered on by 10,000 onlookers, up to 150 nuns dressed in white joined the march through the heart of Rangoon.
It came a day after the Buddhist monks marched by the home of detained Burmese opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi.
The protests have snowballed into the biggest public show of opposition to the generals since the 1988 uprising.
BBC South Asia correspondent Jonathan Head says the demonstrations are escalating because the monks are now urging civilians to join in, after advising them last week not to get involved.
Apparently unsure what to do, the security forces appear to be standing back for the moment and the next act in the drama is impossible to predict, says our correspondent.
Ms Suu Kyi emerged tearfully on Saturday from the home where she has been under house arrest since 2003 to pray with the monks, after they were allowed through a roadblock.
Burmese activists hold pictures of Aung San Suu Kyi during a protest outside the Burmese embassy in Bangkok, Thailand, on 16 September 2007.
But on Sunday the barricades were firmly back in place and there was a heavy security presence near the democracy icon's home to prevent a repeat protest march past.
Witnesses said the crowds formed a protective human chain, as the monks and nuns set off from Burma's most famous landmark, the revered Shwedagon Pagoda.
Some demonstrators chanted "Release Suu Kyi" as they continued to the nearby Sule Pagoda, before passing the US Embassy.
Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Ms Suu Kyi has spent 11 of the last 18 years in detention.
In 1990 her party won national elections, but these were annulled by the army and she was never allowed to take office.
The leaders of the demonstrations have vowed to continue until the collapse of the military government.
The monks have urged the Burmese people to hold prayer vigils in their doorways for 15 minutes at 2000 (1330 GMT) on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday.
The rallies began last month when the government doubled fuel prices.
But they have taken on new momentum in the past week since the religious order became more widely involved.
On Saturday, at least 2,000 monks took to the streets in Rangoon, 10,000 monks went on the march in Mandalay and there were protests in five townships across Burma.
On Friday, the Alliance of All Burmese Buddhist Monks branded Burma's military rulers "the enemy of the people" and pledged to "wipe the military dictatorship from the land".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7009005.stm -
YANGON, Myanmar (AP) --About 20,000 people led by Buddhist monks demonstrated against Myanmar's military junta Sunday, in what has quickly become the largest anti-government demonstrations since the failed democratic uprising in 1988.
art.monkssat.ap.jpg
Buddhist monks march and pray during a peaceful protest in Yangon on Saturday.
The 10,000 monks marched from Yangon's famous Shwedagon Pagoda to the nearby Sule Pagoda before passing the U.S. Embassy, witnesses said. Monks shouted support for detained democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi, while the crowd of 10,000 protected them by forming a human chain along the route.
It was the sixth straight day monks have marched in Yangon, and came a day after they were allowed to walk past Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Suu Kyi's compound in a symbolic gesture of support. Their activities have given new life to a protest movement that began a month ago after the government raised fuel prices.
A monk gave a speech Sunday calling for Suu Kyi's release and national reconciliation before the monks set off from the Shwedagon Pagoda, the witness said.
The protest was the largest in the latest series to erupt in Yangon.
Earlier Sunday, the government had deployed about 20 pro-junta thugs and 20 riot police on the road leading to Suu Kyi's compound, witnesses said. A fire truck was parked nearby.
While authorities had not intervened in Sunday's march, plainclothes police trailed behind the marchers and some with shotguns were posted at street corners along the route.
By linking their cause to Suu Kyi's pro-democracy struggle, which has seen her detained for about 12 of the last 18 years, the monks increased the pressure on the junta to decide whether to crack down or compromise with the demonstrators.
Don't Miss
* U.N. envoy to Myanmar amid protests
* 1,500 monks march on Myanmar
* Monks lead violent Myanmar protests
* Myanmar seeks to crush dissent
* Myanmar quashes democracy protests
"This was a very important gesture," said David Steinberg, a Myanmar expert at Georgetown University in Washington, who is monitoring events from Singapore. "It's significant because the military allowed them to pass (Suu Kyi's house). That and other images indicate the military is not prepared, unless things get worse, to directly confront the monks in their uniforms."
Steinberg said this was in contrast to 1990, when the military put down a protest by hundreds of monks in Mandalay, arresting and defrocking some and closing monasteries linked with the demonstration.
So far, the government has been handling the monks' disciplined but defiant protests gingerly, aware that forcibly breaking them up in predominantly Buddhist Myanmar would likely cause public outrage.
But Steinberg said the military's lack of force should not be seen as a sign of weakness, given that it remains the largest and most powerful institution in the country.
"Any change (in the government) will have to be approved by elements of the military if there is to be change," he said. "They are far too powerful to be resisted if the military acts in unison."
A U.N. official agreed, saying that while Myanmar dissident groups he had met in Bangkok this week were optimistic about the outcome, they had failed to take into account the military's history of brutally suppressing uprisings in 1988, 1990 and 1996.
"They were very optimistic and expectant and seemed to believe that there was one outcome possible -- which was a popular uprising that brings Suu Kyi to the forefront," said the official, who requested anonymity, citing protocol. "I'm not as confident that is the only outcome possible. I would think massive repression and violence on a significant scale is not to be discounted."
The monks on Saturday stopped briefly in front of Suu Kyi's house and said prayers before leaving at the other end of the street, said witnesses, who asked not to be named for fear of being harassed by the authorities.
"Today is extraordinary. We walked past lay disciple Daw Aung San Suu Kyi's house today. We are pleased and glad to see her looking fit and well," a 45-year old monk told about 200 people at Sule Pagoda.
"Daw" is an honorific used in referring to older women in Myanmar.
Suu Kyi, 62, is the leader of the National League for Democracy party, which won a 1990 general election but was not allowed to take power by the military. She has been under detention continuously since May 2003.
The latest protest movement began Aug. 19 after the government raised fuel prices, but has its basis in long pent-up dissatisfaction with the repressive military regime. Using arrests and intimidation, the government had managed to keep demonstrations limited in size and impact -- but they gained new life when the monks joined. -
Burma march 'largest in 20 years'
Buddhist monks address a crowd at the Shwedagon Pagoda (23 September 2007)
Buddhist monks are now calling on civilians to join the protests.
Burma's largest anti-government protest in nearly two decades has taken place in the former capital Rangoon, led by Buddhist monks and nuns.
Up to 20,000 people took to the streets on the seventh day of protests calling for an end to the "evil dictatorship".
Unlike a day earlier, police barred a group of monks from entering the road that leads to the home of detained opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi.
The rallies began last month when the government doubled fuel prices.
BBC South Asia correspondent Jonathan Head says every day the protests are growing in size - the campaign the monks began just six days ago is now openly challenging the military, urging all citizens to join in.
Barricades
A huge column of demonstrators made its way through the heart of the city, following an identical route to that used during the failed anti-military uprising in 1988.
Burmese activists hold pictures of Aung San Suu Kyi during a protest outside the Burmese embassy in Bangkok, Thailand, on 16 September 2007.
There are no exact figures but the rally was estimated to be 20,000 strong.
Our correspondent says the mood was relaxed, even euphoric, with thousands of civilians joining Buddhist monks and nuns, and chanting the key demands of this campaign - reconciliation with the opposition, the release of political prisoners and lower prices.
Apparently unsure what to do, the security forces appear to be standing back for the moment and the next act in the drama is impossible to predict, says our correspondent.
Speaking on the sidelines of a UN meeting, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said America was "watching very carefully" the protests and denounced Burma's "brutal regime".
"The Burmese people deserve better. They deserve the right to be able to live in freedom, just as everyone does."
The head of regional grouping Asean, Ong Keng Yong said he hoped the Burmese authorities would not take any strong action "and turn the protests into a big confrontation".
Ms Suu Kyi emerged tearfully on Saturday from the home where she has been under house arrest since 2003 to pray with the monks, after they were allowed through a roadblock.
But on Sunday the barricades were firmly back in place and there was a heavy security presence near the democracy icon's home to prevent a repeat protest march past.
Prayer vigils
Witnesses said the crowds formed a protective human chain, as the monks and nuns set off from Burma's most famous landmark, the revered Shwedagon Pagoda.
Some demonstrators chanted "Release Suu Kyi" as they continued to the nearby Sule Pagoda, before passing the US embassy.
Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Ms Suu Kyi has spent 11 of the last 18 years in detention.
In 1990 her party won national elections, but these were annulled by the army and she was never allowed to take office.
On Friday, the Alliance of All Burmese Buddhist Monks, which is leading the demonstrations, vowed to continue until they had "wiped the military dictatorship from the land".
The monks have urged the Burmese people to hold prayer vigils in their doorways for 15 minutes at 2000 (1330 GMT) on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday.
Scores of nuns joined more than 2,000 monks in prayer on Sunday at the Shwedagon Pagoda, before marching to the centre of Rangoon.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7009323.stm -
power to the people!
when will singaporeans follow suit? -
Why don't the junta execute a Tiananmen?
-
And why monks and nuns? Shouldn't they be out of this world? Why they interfere with worldly affairs?
-
This will incite anger throughout the country. Other nations will step in.Originally posted by Icemoon:Why don't the junta execute a Tiananmen? -
Why not?Originally posted by Icemoon:And why monks and nuns? Shouldn't they be out of this world? Why they interfere with worldly affairs?
Monks are at the best positions to do what they are doing now. The lay people have less power. The regime will not dare to hurt or kill the monks and nuns.
Let us all pray for the brave monks and a peaceful death of the regime.. -
And you would love to see a brutal repression wouldn't you?Originally posted by Icemoon:Why don't the junta execute a Tiananmen?
The Burmese ruling junta of idiots deserve to be toppled if they do not wake up their idea and realise that their rule is not leading Burma towards greater development or any improvement. -
Their Government has even lost the respect of the most religious in the country and they no longer fear them in a civilised sense, it just shows how pressing the problem is in Myanmar.
-
Then they are holding the government ransom? They are preying on the government's reluctance to suppress monks and nuns. It is like holding citizens hostage and forcing the government to negotiate with them.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Why not?
Monks are at the best positions to do what they are doing now. The lay people have less power. The regime will not dare to hurt or kill the monks and nuns.
Let us all pray for the brave monks and a peaceful death of the regime..
And the monks are adding to the list of problems. I remember Buddhism has one story in which Buddha told a man that he will solve the 84th problem - which is to have no more problems. -
Then the monks should force the junta to execute a Tiananmen.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:This will incite anger throughout the country. Other nations will step in.
Only then will other nations step in to remove the junta .. right? -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
Huh? Why is it holding citizens as hostage?
Then they are holding the government ransom? They are preying on the government's reluctance to suppress monks and nuns. It is like holding citizens hostage and forcing the government to negotiate with them.And the monks are adding to the list of problems. I remember Buddhism has one story in which Buddha told a man that he will solve the 84th problem - which is to have no more problems.
I don't get you. -
How can they 'force' that to happen? And in the first place I do not think anyone wants bloodshed. Obviously violence should be the last resort on one's mind.Originally posted by Icemoon:Then the monks should force the junta to execute a Tiananmen.
Only then will other nations step in to remove the junta .. right? -
Good video: http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7000000/newsid_7003800/7003839.stm?bw=bb&mp=rm&asb=1&news=1
The BBC's Andrew Harding provides a rare insight into Burmese life, where public discontent is growing. -
I just find it weird monks and nuns have to participate in this. Shouldn't they keep themselves out of worldly affairs?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I don't get you.
And they are just adding to the list of problems. Imagine if the junta don't want to give in. Since it is still considered a peaceful protest, the junta can just ignore them. But the junta will be distracted. Like one famous person said, if the junta have to think of ways to fix the opposition, when will they have time to improve on the management of the country?
And imagine the unimaginable happens. The junta guns them down. Then the monks are forcing bad karma on the junta. -
In the first place, if the government is legitimate, they will not have any problems giving their people a voice and listening to them.Originally posted by Icemoon:Then they are holding the government ransom? They are preying on the government's reluctance to suppress monks and nuns. It is like holding citizens hostage and forcing the government to negotiate with them.
And the monks are adding to the list of problems. I remember Buddhism has one story in which Buddha told a man that he will solve the 84th problem - which is to have no more problems.
Instead, they choose to walk their own path, disregard the people's right to vote and choose to be dictators.
The monks are utilising their moral strength correctly. If you have authority over a corrupt regime and you choose to stand idly by, that doesn't make you much of a religious person. -
That example is as flawed as it can be. Don't use Singapore as a model.Originally posted by Icemoon:And they are just adding to the list of problems. Imagine if the junta don't want to give in. Since it is still considered a peaceful protest, the junta can just ignore them. But the junta will be distracted. Like one famous person said, if the junta have to think of ways to fix the opposition, when will they have time to improve on the management of the country?
.
Thank you. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
This is not weird at all. You have to look out of the box, of course if a group of monks start protesting in Singapore that is of course going to be very weird, and of course in Singapore, there are more appropriate people to do the jobs than monks. But in Myanmar, this is the ONLY way that some real change can come about.
I just find it weird monks and nuns have to participate in this. Shouldn't they keep themselves out of worldly affairs?
Anyway as you know in Myanmar the opposition and the opposition leader (aung san suu kyi) is also suppressed... even though they won a landslide victory 20 years back.
The Burmese all appreciate the monks' burmese and sacrifices for the citizens.And they are just adding to the list of problems. Imagine if the junta don't want to give in. Since it is still considered a peaceful protest, the junta can just ignore them. But the junta will be distracted. Like one famous person said, if the junta have to think of ways to fix the opposition, when will they have time to improve on the management of the country?
The problem is of course the government fails to manage the country and there needs to be major changes, which the government refuses.
And imagine the unimaginable happens. The junta guns them down. Then the monks are forcing bad karma on the junta.
Revolutions seems to be an inevitability if the government stays with their old ways. The process has begun to weaken the oppressive government.
The monks are not responsible and cannot be held responsible for any irrational actions that the government does and the monks are just trying to save the masses from being the victims of their government policies.
Sangha has very strong power and ability to influence... Myanmar's independence from British rule is also due to Sangha's help. -
Yes exactly. We must be able to differentiate 'not meddling with worldly affairs' and giving a helping hand for the people.Originally posted by LazerLordz:The monks are utilising their moral strength correctly. If you have authority over a corrupt regime and you choose to stand idly by, that doesn't make you much of a religious person.
So if monks don't meddle with worldly affairs, does that mean not involving in charities and so on, to help the people? -
[b]Originally posted by Icemoon:
I just find it weird monks and nuns have to participate in this. Shouldn't they keep themselves out of worldly affairs?
And they are just adding to the list of problems. Imagine if the junta don't want to give in. Since it is still considered a peaceful protest, the junta can just ignore them. But the junta will be distracted. Like one famous person said, if the junta have to think of ways to fix the opposition, when will they have time to improve on the management of the country?And imagine the unimaginable happens. The junta guns them down. Then the monks are forcing bad karma on the junta.
As good as saying victims eg: of rape & robbery etc, are at fault for tempting the aggressors to commit the crimes
The reason why they are getting involved is, imo the junta are not doing much to improve on the management of the country... -
Dunno....but I have a feeling this news is exaggerated by foreign media who wish to see or like to see what they want to see. In other words, it is exaggerated.
Let's see how it goes. I personally doubt the junta will be toppled because they have taken the right response, which is, stepping-down the tension level.
If they maintain this posture and the demonstrators cannot get hold of some additional reason or extra momentum, I think it will eventually fade away and the junta will stay in power.
This monk organization if Im not wrong is just 1 small organization with mainly young monks as members. So it doesn't look widespread enough among all the Monk organizations.
Meat Pao. -
At Tiananmen, the Government had to deal with a mob.Originally posted by Icemoon:Why don't the junta execute a Tiananmen?
At present, the Myanmar government has to deal with the religious persons.
The monks and nuns are the conscience of the faithful followers, and are the guiding spirit to those who are lost and helpless.Originally posted by Icemoon:And why monks and nuns? Shouldn't they be out of this world? Why they interfere with worldly affairs? -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
Serving as the conscience for the society, whom they provide religious comfort and social guidance, can they divorce themselves from the injustice of the world ?
I just find it weird monks and nuns have to participate in this. Shouldn't they keep themselves out of worldly affairs?
The problems created by the junta has been growing both domestically and internationally - and in all spheres of economic, social and political matters.
And they are just adding to the list of problems. Imagine if the junta don't want to give in. Since it is still considered a peaceful protest, the junta can just ignore them. But the junta will be distracted. Like one famous person said, if the junta have to think of ways to fix the opposition, when will they have time to improve on the management of the country?
The junta has shown themselves continuously divorced from realities - with their sudden move of the traditional capital city to a new capital city carved out of the wilderness of the jungle, based on a notion that the junta leadership is exposed to a surgical commando attack by foreign government.
Since the junta decisive moves to tighten their grip on power, and even to the extent of jailing the family of the founding father, as well as the family of the retired first military dictator, and also jailing their own No 3 for being liberal - this junta has already shown themselves to be morally bankrupt with their own dog-eat-dog attitude.
Can the Myanmar society continue in such an environment ?
There are more lessons for Singaporeans to absorb as events unfold from these current events in Myanmar.
The junta will be stupid to order their own soldiers - most of whom are Budhists - to use their guns on unarmed monks and nuns.
And imagine the unimaginable happens. The junta guns them down. Then the monks are forcing bad karma on the junta.
Such an order will be forcing the simple mind of ordinary rank-and-file soldiers to think. When ordinary soldiers start to think and question the legitimacy of such controversial orders that will trouble the conscience of the simple minds, this will surely spell the end of the arrogance of the ruling junta elite. -
Read up on the blogs of Burmese. It is not a show.Originally posted by Meat Pao:Dunno....but I have a feeling this news is exaggerated by foreign media who wish to see or like to see what they want to see. In other words, it is exaggerated.
Let's see how it goes. I personally doubt the junta will be toppled because they have taken the right response, which is, stepping-down the tension level.
If they maintain this posture and the demonstrators cannot get hold of some additional reason or extra momentum, I think it will eventually fade away and the junta will stay in power.
This monk organization if Im not wrong is just 1 small organization with mainly young monks as members. So it doesn't look widespread enough among all the Monk organizations.
Meat Pao.
A lot of us Asians want to see the Burmese junta leave power too.