More protest marches break out in Burma
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Flawed analogy.Originally posted by linchiling:[b]
As good as saying victims eg: of rape & robbery etc, are at fault for tempting the aggressors to commit the crimes
The reason why they are getting involved is, imo the junta are not doing much to improve on the management of the country...
While victims supposedly can tempt the offender, the offender is supposed to resist the temptation. ALL religions call upon their believers to resist temptations. True or not?
Whereas if you are in a position of power, your job is to .. erm .. crush the opposition. Using force if necessary. While it is perfectly acceptable to crush rebels, the fact that monks are in the protest shows that monks are challenging the government - kill me if you dare, bad karma will be upon you. -
It is scary such a statement has to come out of their mouth:Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes exactly. We must be able to differentiate 'not meddling with worldly affairs' and giving a helping hand for the people.
So if monks don't meddle with worldly affairs, does that mean not involving in charities and so on, to help the people?On Friday, the Alliance of All Burmese Buddhist Monks branded Burma's military rulers "the enemy of the people" and pledged to "wipe the military dictatorship from the land".
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Who are the lost and helpless now? Ms Suu Kyi and her party?Originally posted by Atobe:The monks and nuns are the conscience of the faithful followers, and are the guiding spirit to those who are lost and helpless.
I don't call this guidance. The monks are practically leading an [armless] rebellion. -
Divide and conquer. Suu Kyi needs the international spotlight on Burma to be raised.
The monks are doing that. The minute the junta makes a wrong step, they're done for.
It's a signal to Than Shwe's compatriots that they better think twice about continuing down this path. Don't assume even ASEAN will stand for a military junta for much longer too. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
Indeed. The offender is supposed to resist the temptation. So he has a CHOICE. The same applies to the junta too. The intention of the monks is to make a statement, none of them is wearing a placard stating "Kill me if you dare"...
Flawed analogy.
While victims supposedly can tempt the offender, the offender is supposed to resist the temptation. ALL religions call upon their believers to resist temptations. True or not?
And no religion advocates one to be a sitting duck when in jeopardy.. that'll be stupidity...Originally posted by Icemoon:
If it's perfectly normal for you to view the above as acceptable, then most likely you're a sympathizer of the junta.
Whereas if you are in a position of power, your job is to .. erm .. crush the opposition. Using force if necessary. While it is perfectly acceptable to crush rebels, the fact that monks are in the protest shows that monks are challenging the government - kill me if you dare, bad karma will be upon you.
Think of it this way, it's also the karma of the junta to cause the monks to initiate the peaceful demonstrations.
Forcing bad karma is ludicrous... and it is pathetic to know that your mind is tuned to "gunning those monks" as the only solution. -
It is flawed to compare the situation with the ability to resist temptation to rob and rape. When you are the government, sometimes you are left with no choice. As the government you have to resolve the situation. Too bad some governement turn to using deadly weapons to suppress the protest/rebellion.Originally posted by linchiling:Forcing bad karma is ludicrous... and it is pathetic to know that your mind is tuned to "gunning those monks" as the only solution.
Using weapons against citizens without arms is what China did. If the junta have not and will not stoop to that low, it means they still have hope right? -
Your head.Originally posted by linchiling:Indeed. The offender is supposed to resist the temptation. So he has a CHOICE. The same applies to the junta too. The intention of the monks is to make a statement, none of them is wearing a placard stating "Kill me if you dare"...
Do you call this making a statement? Sure .. but what a statement to make!On Friday, the Alliance of All Burmese Buddhist Monks branded Burma's military rulers "the enemy of the people" and pledged to "wipe the military dictatorship from the land".
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The regime's death is already due for 20 years when they suppressed a landslide opposition victory by their democractic party and put the leader under house arrest..Originally posted by Icemoon:It is scary such a statement has to come out of their mouth:
They indeed should be wiped out of their land for bringing so much sufferings to the people. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
I may also be left with no choice but to rob...
It is flawed to compare the situation with the ability to resist temptation to rob and rape. When you are the government, sometimes you are left with no choice. As the government you have to resolve the situation. Too bad some governement turn to using deadly weapons to suppress the protest/rebellion. governments that resort to deadly suppression citing "lack of choice" is pure bullocks... an easier way out to fulfill one's desire that's all.
Maybe.. but it takes more than that to instill confidence and respect towards the junta again.
Using weapons against citizens without arms is what China did. If the junta have not and will not stoop to that low, it means they still have hope right?Originally posted by Icemoon:
A strong statement indeed. So gunning them down is still the only solution?
Your head. Laughing
Do you call this making a statement? Sure .. but what a statement to make! -
The junta has been more or less been ignored all this while by the world community at large. And it has been a thorn in Asean's flesh all this while, as it has been difficult to handle Myanmar's problem. It would seem as though the rest of the Asean's members are closing an eye in not recognising the problem. But perhaps it has to do with the lead for the world's greatest democracy. America's been busy lately, and being an insignificant country in south east asia and no significant threat to america's war against terrorism, the country been left out of America's foreign policy. But Bush has taken notice of the country of late. Will we be expecting to see the high-handedness response of the US?
From what I see and drawing some similarities from its neighbour, Thailand, the protest can only come to either two conclusion.
One: the diminishing of the junta's rule in myanmar. To relief power completely to the people would be a difficult thing for the junta to do. Power is a great corruptor afterall.
Two: The military takes action, just as what happened in bangkok in 1970s, when soldiers opened fire on protesters or in tiananmen square. To have the military take action against its own population... indeed a scary thought.
Of course there is another way this thing may fold out: a stalemate. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
The lost and helpless .... Ms Suu Kyi and her party ?
Who are the lost and helpless now? Ms Suu Kyi and her party?
I don't call this guidance. The monks are practically leading an [armless] rebellion.
Hardly.... surely you are guessing... ?
Ms Suu Kyi and her party are not lost, as they surely know where they intend to head, except that they are temporarily cornered by those with the guns and dirty money.
The lost and helpless are the military junta, the soldiers whose loyalty will now have to be placed on the table in deciding to fight against Budha's representatives or to continue to do the bidding of those who is filling their stomachs.
The lost and helpless are the populace who has been cowed by the barrel of the guns held by the military junta.
It is a surprise that for more then forty years, the Budhist monks have remained tolerant and accomodated the military junta; and will now emerged to provide guidance to the populace and perhaps even to help the simple minds of the 'ant army' that the military junta continue attempting to grip.
Yes, the Budihist monks has emerged to be the conscience of Myanmar, to remind the military junta that enough is enough, and that they cannot possibly continue to abuse the civilian population, create hardship while they lavish themselves with full meals everyday on State expense, while the population works for nothing.
ISD is surely watching every movement of every religious councils in Singapore at this moment. -
The marching monks and now the nuns must be seen in a broad historical perspective. We are not in the best position to comment because like I said in many other threads: unless we know the history, and was there as witness, everything that we said is at best a personal and unlearned and often bias comment. You will have a better feel when you roam the vast country of Myanmar on foot with a backpack. See for yourself, talk to the ordinary folks(though they are quite guarded because they don't want to be seen talking to foreigners), walked the backlanes, ride the bullock carts - and you will know how sad that a resource-rich country has the world's highest poverty rate!
Military rule whether by force or by franchise is a thing of the past. We read in history books revolutions and uprisings against tyranny and dictatorship. By its nature, the junta must rule by force and use arms when it is cornered. So when the monks and nuns corner the junta, tanks will roll.
The dhamma is no drama for the junta and so is karma. The monastic order is no match for military order. Soldiers had long ago sold their souls for a buffet of good life in the barracks. So they are not likely to go against the orders of their miltary masters. What happened in Asia in the 20th century is what happened to Europe in the 18th, 19th century culminating in World Wars I and II.
History always repeat itself. That is called CYCLE, and REBIRTH will cause history to repeat itself again because a Hitler will be born again, a Hirohito will be born again, a Mohammed will be born again and of course Jesus is Coming again! -
hmmz but then again in lets say iraq, the governments do not have the respect of the most religious too. and i guess its true in most countries with religious fanatism/terrorismOriginally posted by ^tamago^:Their Government has even lost the respect of the most religious in the country and they no longer fear them in a civilised sense, it just shows how pressing the problem is in Myanmar. -
Monks have historically played an active role the political life in Myanmar and it is not unimaginable for the military to use violence on them.Originally posted by Icemoon:I just find it weird monks and nuns have to participate in this. Shouldn't they keep themselves out of worldly affairs?
And they are just adding to the list of problems. Imagine if the junta don't want to give in. Since it is still considered a peaceful protest, the junta can just ignore them. But the junta will be distracted. Like one famous person said, if the junta have to think of ways to fix the opposition, when will they have time to improve on the management of the country?
And imagine the unimaginable happens. The junta guns them down. Then the monks are forcing bad karma on the junta.
The military had arrested and killed the monks many, many times. They are not using any force this time because they are trying to show that they working towards democracy. -
Serioulsy, they could still clamp down violently worst come to worse
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so let's give the poor military men a chance.Originally posted by pearlie27:The military had arrested and killed the monks many, many times. They are not using any force this time because they are trying to show that they working towards democracy.
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Last Updated: Monday, 24 September 2007, 14:45 GMT 15:45 UK
Burmese military threatens monks
Buddhist monks march through Ahlone, a Rangoon suburb, on 24 September
Burma's ruling military junta has warned it is ready to "take action" against Buddhist monks leading mounting protests, state media have reported.
Brig Gen Thura Myint Maung, the minister for religion, issued the warning as Rangoon saw the largest march yet.
He warned monks not to go against Buddhist "rules and regulations".
Monks are highly revered in Burma and any move by the junta to crush their demonstrations would spark an outcry.
Map of Rangoon showing locations in the democracy march
The military suppressed the last democracy uprising in 1988, killing some 3,000 people, correspondents say.
The monks had called for the entire country to join them in their campaign to overthrow the government, which began eight days ago, and Monday saw marches in at least 25 towns and cities, including Mandalay, Sittwe and Pakokku.
Turnout estimates in Rangoon, Burma's biggest city, range from 50,000 to 100,000.
Monday's marches are a show of defiance unthinkable just a few weeks ago, BBC Asia correspondent Andrew Harding reports.
PROTESTS MOUNT
15 Aug: Junta doubles fuel prices, sparking protests
5 Sept: Troops injure several monks at a protest in Pakokku
17 Sept: The junta's failure to apologise for the injuries draws fresh protests by monks
18-21 Sept: Daily marches by monks in Burmese cities gradually gather in size
22 Sept: 1,000 monks march to the home of Aung San Suu Kyi in Rangoon
23 Sept: Up to 20,000 march in Rangoon
24 Sept: New Rangoon march draws at least 50,000 and 24 other towns join in
Five columns of monks, one reportedly stretching for more than 1km (0.6 miles), entered the city centre to cheers and applause from thousands of bystanders.
Civilians who joined in pinned small pieces of monks' robes on to their clothing, some of them weeping. They included officials from the opposition National League for Democracy (NLD) party, led by Aung San Suu Kyi.
Two well-known actors, comedian Zargana and film star Kyaw Thu, encouraged the Rangoon marchers early in the day by going to the golden Shwedagon Pagoda to offer them food and water.
The authorities are likely to be under huge pressure from their close neighbour China to avoid bloodshed and instability, our correspondent notes.
But if the demonstrations continue, he adds, the generals may see their authority ebb away and their options narrow.
The White House has urged Burma's rulers to show restraint and seek dialogue with "those seeking freedom".
UK Ambassador Mark Canning said Burma's leaders were now in uncharted territory and he expressed concern about a possible government counter-reaction.
"That... would be a disaster, although in terms of probability it, I'm afraid, ranks quite high," he told the BBC.
On Saturday, monks marched to greet Aung San Suu Kyi, who is under house arrest, but access to her home was barred on Sunday, and again on Monday.
Monks have been urging Burmese people to hold 15-minute evening prayer vigils.
The organisation that has emerged to lead the protests, the Alliance of All Burmese Buddhist Monks, has vowed to continue marches until it has "wiped the military dictatorship from the land".
The protests were triggered by the government's decision to double the price of fuel last month, hitting people hard in the impoverished nation.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7010839.stm -
Hmmm .... I urge those who protested at Centrepoint to go to Yangon and join the protest there. What is our CPF annuity thingy so important compared to the injustice in Myanmar? They don't even have CPF not to mention annuity! I also urge RockStar to ask Sylvia to join in the protest there. I also ask all those who cannot stand FT (foreign talent) to help the monks - they need FT too.
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Keep your OT comments to that particular thread.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:Hmmm .... I urge those who protested at Centrepoint to go to Yangon and join the protest there. What is our CPF annuity thingy so important compared to the injustice in Myanmar? They don't even have CPF not to mention annuity! I also urge RockStar to ask Sylvia to join in the protest there. I also ask all those who cannot stand FT (foreign talent) to help the monks - they need FT too.
Thank you. -
I sincerely pray for the monks.
I seriously doubt the military leaders will think twice about using their weapons. After all, they've been in power for over 20 years. They know they got it by force, and now they're going to keep it.
They're just looking for an excuse to unload everything at the protesters.
My take is that the military rulers may plant some false monk scandal or something to weaken the people's support for them. But then again, the rulers may not care.
Long live to the people. -
I think they're just waiting for a chance, now that the world's attention is on them. They know they got everything they have today by force against the people's wishes for 20 years. I seriously do not believe they are willing to work towards what the people wants.Originally posted by pearlie27:Monks have historically played an active role the political life in Myanmar and it is not unimaginable for the military to use violence on them.
The military had arrested and killed the monks many, many times. They are not using any force this time because they are trying to show that they working towards democracy.
They are just waiting for a chance, a slip by the protesters, before they open fire. -
What OT? I am talking about protest in Myanmar. I urge you to go there too!Originally posted by LazerLordz:Keep your OT comments to that particular thread.
Thank you. -
Why should I go? Why don't you go since you are so eager to get into the thick of the action.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:What OT? I am talking about protest in Myanmar. I urge you to go there too!
Get a life, you twerp. -
i think its gonna end up bloody.
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I am praying it wouldn't end like 1988 saga. I really dont wish to see innocent monks, nuns and citizen being shot ruthlessly. I am praying hard. There's no way for them to back off now, now is how is the junta going to handle them.Originally posted by BadzMaro:i think its gonna end up bloody.