More protest marches break out in Burma
-
And I suppose the international community will take a bunch of loosely-associated regimes comprising of rogues and corrupt regimes seriously in its ability to effect change in Myanmmar?Originally posted by Arapahoe:So what is left will be ASEAN as a grouping shield the impact of PRC. I think at the end of the day ASEAN can help and it has to be carrot and stick.
make the reform now.
-
It is sicker by the day! Army is suppose to be fighting the enemy and protecting the people. Where in the world can u the army fighting its own people. Are they blind or have their heart being dug out by the rulers.
The fact that they raided the monastries and pull hundreds of them in to prison is really inhuman!
People around the world please show your support by wearing RED on 28 September 2007 all over the world. This is jus a little gesture that we could do. If i could do more, please let me know! -
Well look around who will ? it happen in Asia region, if asia countries don't do anything who will? UN ? I doubt its capable of passing any sensible resolution other than some dramatic meaningless wording.Originally posted by walesa:And I suppose the international community will take a bunch of loosely-associated regimes comprising of rogues and corrupt regimes seriously in its ability to effect change in Myanmmar?
The case of inflicting any serious change within Myanmar is probably long over. If PRC could issue a statement I believe it would said something like this is an internal affair of PRC
-
SE Asian nations taking a stance to effect change on Myanmmar? Are you for a moment suggesting having thieves watching over robbers as a means of instilling confidence in the greater masses? Tell me something asian countries have done with any success on that score.Originally posted by Arapahoe:Well look around who will ? it happen in Asia region, if asia countries don't do anything who will? UN ? I doubt its capable of passing any sensible resolution other than some dramatic meaningless wording.
The case of inflicting any serious change within Myanmar is probably long over. If PRC could issue a statement I believe it would said something like this is an internal affair of PRC
The UN isn't capable of passing any sensible resolution not because it is unable to - as a matter of fact, if you knew your stuff, any resolution vetoed by a permanent member at the Security Council can be overwritten at the General Assembly (an emergency session can always be called for should the need arise) with either a simple majority (this would suffice in this context) or a 2/3 majority. That said, Ban Ki Moon has called for more urgent action simply because the present situation in Myanmmar demands that - I doubt anyone in their right mind would want to go through the whole bureaucratic process of getting a resolution passed without first giving diplomacy a shot, would they?
Your argument suggesting taking the "asian countries" route being more effective than the UN essentially raises nothing more than a fallacious notion that moral authority (which, truth be told, SE asian countries have none to begin with) supercedes a will by consensus. If you're not going to achieve anything tangible either way, try making a case for ASEAN to be better able to pressurise the rogues (led by the junta) than the UN through pressure and sanctions... -
Since when was the purpose of the military of rogue regimes ever to defend the sovereignty of its territories?Originally posted by primalscream:It is sicker by the day! Army is suppose to be fighting the enemy and protecting the people. Where in the world can u the army fighting its own people. Are they blind or have their heart being dug out by the rulers.
The fact that they raided the monastries and pull hundreds of them in to prison is really inhuman!
People around the world please show your support by wearing RED on 28 September 2007 all over the world. This is jus a little gesture that we could do. If i could do more, please let me know!
From Iraq (under Saddam) to China (think Tiananmen), Chile (under Pinochet) to Burma, aren't examples aplenty of how the military could be expediently used to safeguard and defend the interests of the despots running such regimes? -
Military regimes rule by force not by legitimacy. Therefore, it is more fearful of internal threats than external threats. Also, no country will mess with another country run by generals who are ever ready to c-o-c-k their rifles.Originally posted by walesa:Since when was the purpose of the military of rogue regimes ever to defend the sovereignty of its territories?
From Iraq (under Saddam) to China (think Tiananmen), Chile (under Pinochet) to Burma, aren't examples aplenty of how the military could be expediently used to safeguard and defend the interests of the despots running such regimes?
For Myanmar, the only countries that could reign in the military regime are India, China and Thailand.
Thailand ??? It is also a military regime.
China ??? It is a blind panda.
India ??? Too democratic to bother. -
Time to join up and form the Pan Asian Coalition.
Asia for Asians!!
N use tanks to crush all dissent once and for all to bring about... peace and stability. Only then.. can we be prosperous. All asian countries under 1 military rule. Ruled under 1 benevolent despot. 
-
Two updates.
---
Singapore: Myanmar situation “very grave”
P. S. Suryanarayana
SINGAPORE: In a politically significant intervention, Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, who chairs the Association of South East Asian Nations that includes Myanmar, described the unfolding situation there as “very grave” indeed. Mr. Lee began consulting other ASEAN leaders, as the forum “could not credibly remain silent or uninvolved in this matter.”
Singapore called upon the military junta to “grant” the U.N. envoy Ibrahim Gambari “full access to all players” relevant to a peaceful resolution of the current “situation.”
A spokesman of Nobel Peace Laureate Aung San Suu KyiÂ’s National League for Democracy, Win Hlaing, told The Hindu over telephone from the Thailand-Myanmar border that the junta, styled the Peace and Development Council (SPDC), was believed to have moved Ms. Suu Kyi to Insein prison from her Yangon residence where she was being held in detention for years.
But there was no independent confirmation of any such development. Ms. Suu Kyi had silently greeted hundreds of marching monks as they filed past her residence last Saturday when the police, in a rare gesture, allowed them access to her doorstep.
National Council of the Union of Burma spokesman Soe Aung told The Hindu over telephone from Bangkok that the crackdown could lead to another “bloodbath” as in 1988. He said the leaders of the latest movement were looking towards democratic powers like India to prevent any such denouement yet again.
http://www.hindu.com/2007/09/28/stories/2007092863491600.htm
----------------------
BBC News
China, one of Burma's main allies, has urged all parties to "maintain restraint", but has refused to condemn the junta.
The Burmese authorities have bowed to international pressure and agreed to let UN special envoy Ibrahim Gambari visit the country.
UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Louise Arbour has warned Burma's leaders they could face prosecution for the violence.
Meanwhile, Japan said it would make an official protest over the death in Rangoon of Kenji Nagai, a video journalist for Tokyo-based news agency APF News.
Meeting in New York, foreign ministers from Asean (the Association of South East Asian Nations) took the Burmese representative to task over the violence.
Singaporean Foreign Minister George Yeo said Asean politicians had met and "expressed their revulsion to (Burmese) Foreign Minister Nyan Win over reports that the demonstrations in (Burma) are being suppressed by violent force and that there's been a number of fatalities".
BBC United Nations correspondent Laura Trevelyan says Asean members do not usually interfere in each other's internal affairs but the group is too embarrassed to ignore the world focus on what is happening on its doorstep.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7017369.stm -
Stupid people. Obviously a sign of no proper planning.Originally posted by LazerLordz:A spokesman of Nobel Peace Laureate Aung San Suu KyiÂ’s National League for Democracy, Win Hlaing, told The Hindu over telephone from the Thailand-Myanmar border that the junta, styled the Peace and Development Council (SPDC), was believed to have moved Ms. Suu Kyi to Insein prison from her Yangon residence where she was being held in detention for years.
They should have prepared a safe haven for Ms Suu Kyi and the leaders of NLD BEFORE going out to protest.
Now the leaders of NLD are detained. What if Ms Suu Kyi is murdered in Insein prison?
-
How is that possible when she is under police guard and house arrest?Originally posted by Icemoon:Stupid people. Obviously a sign of no proper planning.
They should have prepared a safe haven for Ms Suu Kyi and the leaders of NLD BEFORE going out to protest.
Now the leaders of NLD are detained. What if Ms Suu Kyi is murdered in Insein prison? -
SWAT team, shaolin style.Originally posted by LazerLordz:How is that possible when she is under police guard and house arrest?
Is a house harder to attack than a prison? -
R U STUPID?? people who are up to date KNOWS VERY WELL that Ms Suu Kyi is under house arrest and any attempt to move her without the junta's authority will not only give the junta reasons to fire upon them but upon the Ms Suu Kyi herself..!!!Originally posted by Icemoon:Stupid people. Obviously a sign of no proper planning.
They should have prepared a safe haven for Ms Suu Kyi and the leaders of NLD BEFORE going out to protest.
Now the leaders of NLD are detained. What if Ms Suu Kyi is murdered in Insein prison? -
sign...too busy to do a long reply but sanction? ....do u want to know how poor they are? sanction at this economic level doesn't have any impact. Pressure from who? PRC? or Asean? western countries sure tourist.Originally posted by walesa:SE Asian nations taking a stance to effect change on Myanmmar? Are you for a moment suggesting having thieves watching over robbers as a means of instilling confidence in the greater masses? Tell me something asian countries have done with any success on that score.
The UN isn't capable of passing any sensible resolution not because it is unable to - as a matter of fact, if you knew your stuff, any resolution vetoed by a permanent member at the Security Council can be overwritten at the General Assembly (an emergency session can always be called for should the need arise) with either a simple majority (this would suffice in this context) or a 2/3 majority. That said, Ban Ki Moon has called for more urgent action simply because the present situation in Myanmmar demands that - I doubt anyone in their right mind would want to go through the whole bureaucratic process of getting a resolution passed without first giving diplomacy a shot, would they?
Your argument suggesting taking the "asian countries" route being more effective than the UN essentially raises nothing more than a fallacious notion that moral authority (which, truth be told, SE asian countries have none to begin with) supercedes a will by consensus. If you're not going to achieve anything tangible either way, try making a case for ASEAN to be better able to pressurise the rogues (led by the junta) than the UN through pressure and sanctions...
Moral authority by means of western democracy, human right? what make u so sure that is the final evolved? remember they were like us hand down from the Brit. with a very established civil administration. -
Dude, that's lame.Originally posted by Icemoon:SWAT team, shaolin style.
Is a house harder to attack than a prison? -
People who have brains should know if a person's interest (power, money or women) is threatened, he might do stupid things.Originally posted by 4getmenot:R U STUPID?? people who are up to date KNOWS VERY WELL that Ms Suu Kyi is under house arrest and any attempt to move her without the junta's authority will not only give the junta reasons to fire upon them but upon the Ms Suu Kyi herself..!!!
So the junta's interest is threatened. And knowing full well Ms Suu Kyi is the de-facto leader of the opposition, they might just do stupid things to her. You know .. generals shag liao cannot think .. so maybe they just pull the trigger on her. -
Where got lame?Originally posted by LazerLordz:Dude, that's lame.
In the Tang Dynasty .. Shaolin monks did rescue the Prince of Qin, Li Shimin, who was in captivity.http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=90
13 Monks Rescue the Tang Emperor
As Shaolin Temple became more economically independent, it was also more tied politically to the government, a situation which reached its apex in 621 of the late Sui Dynasty. The Prince of Qin, Li Shimin, was leading the Tang army in a bitter battle in the Songshan mountain region against Sui General Wang Shicong. Li Shimin was taken captive after several days of fighting, and the Tang army defeated. They sent a desperate message to Shaolin Temple asking for help. The Temple's monks, resentful of Wang Shicong for taking their land, sent 13 monks to the aid of the prince. Headed by fighting monks Tan Zong, Zhi Chao and Hui Yang, they came with their cudgels and ambushed the Sui army, defeating them, capturing Wang Shicong's nephew and freeing Li Shimin. Li went on to ascend the throne becoming the Emperor of Tang, and he rewarded the monks with 40 hectares of land and other privileges. -
The way you said it.
Either you never been to Myanmar or watch too many american movie.
Can the ordinary peasents be your Swat team or shaolin gong fu monks?
The answer is NO.
The communication network is also limited in Myanmar.
Mobile phone is so super expensive and only the rich can afford eg. the junta or overseas business traveller etc.
Mobile network is control by the military.
There is no mobile auto roaming allow for outsider.
I bought a USD4K phone just to get the commuication when I am there during business work.
In order to organise a protests is very difficult.
Dont bother to talk about Swat team to save the NLD leadersOriginally posted by Icemoon:SWAT team, shaolin style.
Is a house harder to attack than a prison? -
Cartoon.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Dude, that's lame.
-
I dunno what is in their mind.Originally posted by CPTMiller:The way you said it.
Either you never been to Myanmar or watch too many american movie.
Can the ordinary peasents be your Swat team or shaolin gong fu monks?
The answer is NO.
If you mean it as a protest, then don't go overboard.
The way they describe their agenda (wipe dictatorship off the land), makes it not a protest but a rebellion.
If it is a rebellion, then don't blame the government for wanting to crush you.
If what you want is a rebellion, then make sure you know what you are doing.
They are kinda sadist. They actually want more bloodshed to attract world attention. -
Icemoon, I do not know what is actually running in your mind. You seem to be rooting for the wrong cause all the time. Do you actually know how the Myanmar Junta remained in power since 1962 despite losing in the free elections in 1990? Do you know the bloodshed of 1988?Originally posted by Icemoon:I dunno what is in their mind.
If you mean it as a protest, then don't go overboard.
The way they describe their agenda (wipe dictatorship off the land), makes it not a protest but a rebellion.
If it is a rebellion, then don't blame the government for wanting to crush you.
If what you want is a rebellion, then make sure you know what you are doing.
They are kinda sadist. They actually want more bloodshed to attract world attention.
Today Myanmar is one of the poorest nations in SEA. The state of oppression has seen stagnantations in nearly all sectors of its economies, a great fall from its heydays under British administration.
Who are the sadist ones? The ones who forcefully suppress and reign over their citizens with violence or bloodshed? Or the monks with peace and hopes of a better life for their fellow citizens.
I do not wish to be seen coming hard on you, but I am utterly disgusted when I read your comments. -
Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:Icemoon, I do not know what is actually running in your mind. You seem to be rooting for the wrong cause all the time. Do you actually know how the Myanmar Junta remained in power since 1962 despite losing in the free elections in 1990? Do you know the bloodshed of 1988?
http://www.burmawatch.org/aboutburma.html
If you want to play the game, then make sure you know what you are playing.
Finally in 1988, Burma erupted into a series of demonstrations and strikes protesting the existing extreme political oppression and economic hardships. The government initially responded with arrests, detentions, and excessive force resulting in some deaths.
The demonstrations of 1988 culminated in a massive nation-wide show of People Power on August 8 in which hundreds of thousands of people marched to demand a change in government. These peaceful demonstrations were violently crushed by army troops who fired relentlessly on the unarmed crowds in Rangoon and other cities killing more than 10,000 student, civilian and Buddhist monk protesters throughout the country. Thousands were arrested.
The bloodshed of 1988 was caused by people who played the game but lost. It is fundamental human nature - we will act to protect our interests if they are threatened. Don't act holy and say if you are part of the junta, you will not do what they are doing.
There is nothing sadistic per se about shooting your own people. For example, if you turn traitor in a war, I believe your officer can just shoot you without a summary trial.
What is sadistic is that the citizens are clamouring for more blood to be shed. Simple thinking tells us if the deaths of '88 failed to move the world to take actions against the junta, then perhaps we should execute a bigger '88. 10,000 not enough? Then how about 100,000? Or a million deaths?
It is indeed sadistic and ironical.
-
Indeed I would wish to continue playing this game. I would love to dwell deeper into what you are actually thinking.Originally posted by Icemoon:If you want to play the game, then make sure you know what you are playing.
The bloodshed of 1988 was caused by people who played the game but lost. It is fundamental human nature - we will act to protect our interests if they are threatened. Don't act holy and say if you are part of the junta, you will not do what they are doing.
There is nothing sadistic per se about shooting your own people. For example, if you turn traitor in a war, I believe your officer can just shoot you without a summary trial.
What is sadistic is that the citizens are clamouring for more blood to be shed. Simple thinking tells us if the deaths of '88 failed to move the world to take actions against the junta, then perhaps we should execute a bigger '88. 10,000 not enough? Then how about 100,000? Or a million deaths?
It is indeed sadistic and ironical.
Firstly, you mentioned that it is fundamental human nature to defend what is theirs, but does it make it right fundamentally itself? Do I have the right to kill another just because they encroach upon my property? What you are saying is that use of extreme violence is acceptable. So are you saying cases of domestic violence should be accepted since men are fundamentally more violent and brutal since the stoneage times? This is the primal instinct within us am I not wrong?
Is it human nature to kill without qualms? I hope thousands of years of civilisation has not taught us that human lives are to be taken lightly.
You have a warped sense of justice, seeking address for the perpetrators of injustice. Do you know about the acts of abuses against human rights within the country itself? Should you be actually residing amongst such horrors, amidst such repression, it is not right to want to right things? -
Icemoon, perhaps you might find some solace and some joy in these acts by the military junta. Perhaps you will understand the joy and widespread love for the military junta...
http://www.unpo.org/article.php?id=5706
http://www.gfbv.it/3dossier/asia/burma/burma-shan-en.html
These are but some of the articles. It sickens me to read them, and it sickens me to know that someone actually endorses them... due to fundamental human nature. Sick. -
Sadistic? I think desperate is the word to use. Sadistic should be used on the military junta, not the innocent people. Get your terms right.Originally posted by Icemoon:What is sadistic is that the citizens are clamouring for more blood to be shed. Simple thinking tells us if the deaths of '88 failed to move the world to take actions against the junta, then perhaps we should execute a bigger '88. 10,000 not enough? Then how about 100,000? Or a million deaths?
It is indeed sadistic and ironical. -
Good example. Only that you have used it in the wrong context. Could you not view the traitors as the soldiers, killing the hopes and dreams of millions of men, women and children in Myanmar? Who is the traitor now in this context?Originally posted by Icemoon:There is nothing sadistic per se about shooting your own people. For example, if you turn traitor in a war, I believe your officer can just shoot you without a summary trial.