What is the purpose of a pool ?
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Dialogue on CPF reforms focuses on whys and hows of changes
1. What is the POOL about?
By Asha Popatlal, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 23 September 2007 2018 hrs
SINGAPORE: A dialogue session on Sunday with Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and five ministers focused on the hows and whys of the recent CPF changes.
Issues like why the interest rate hike was just 1 percentage point and why there was no opt-out clause for the annuity were brought up and addressed.
To provide life-long income to those who may live beyond 85, the government has announced plans to set aside a sum of money from each individual's minimum sum to buy into a compulsory annuity for all CPF members.
If one dies before age 85, the amount goes into the pool and the payouts for those who are still living.
However, it seems that many Singaporeans are having trouble coming to grips with the idea of living long enough to enjoy the benefits of the scheme.
Goh Aik Kiang, a grassroots leader, said: "Right now, my observation is that there is a percentage of people who don't really believe they will go beyond 85."
Labour chief Lim Swee Say, in typical tongue-in-cheek fashion, then tried to address the issue with what he called "his fortune-telling ability".
The Secretary-General of NTUC said: "I can tell you for sure, half of you will die before 85 - half of you will live beyond 85... what I cannot tell you is whether (it is) this half or that half."
It is the harsh reality of statistics that has prompted the changes to ensure that Singaporeans have enough funds for their retirement. But issues like the annuity have raised concerns about fairness.
Goh Keng Hwa, another grassroots leader, said: "It's likely that this programme, as it is, would result in taking away money from those who are poor and sick, and giving to the wealthy and well-to-do. The reason I say that is because people who live up to 85 and beyond are likely to be those (who are) healthy and well-to-do, people who are poor and sick are likely to be compromised, since everybody contributes."
Manpower Minister Ng Eng Hen said: "Professionals calculate which groups live longer and if they do live longer, they have to pay a higher premium. The number one rule – be fair to everyone. So if you want to be fair to everyone, then each person must put aside in the CPF savings so that if you live longer than expected, you can take care of yourself. Because if you don't do that, then those who have put enough to support themselves will have to support you – that's not fair."
To the suggestion that the government should just step in and help old people with funding when their money runs out, the Second Finance Minister said he felt that was a slippery slope.
Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam said: "The way we are doing now – we help people build up their savings, we give them incentive to save. If you save, we will help you even more, but if we say we will promise to pay if you run out of money, then what will happen over time? People will save less because they know somebody is waiting there, a grand-daddy waiting there to pay up if you run out of money."
Re-employment beyond the age of 62 was another big issue.
Making the distinction between re-employment and simply increasing the retirement age, Mr Lim said re-employment could mean a different job with a different pay that may not be stressful for the older worker.
The scheme also had the added bonus of preventing resentment from younger workers who could climb the corporate ladder and not be blocked by older workers who would simply stay on in their positions.
Mr Lim said NTUC has been working with 300 companies over the last 18 months, and so far, 3,200 Singaporeans who have reached the age of 62 were re-employed.
- CNA/so
2. Was it ever there before?
3. Does having the Pool means whatever amount YOU have yet to withdraw at the time of your DEATH will not go to your family but will reside in the Pool to be used for paying out cpf to those who still not dead? If so, what does this imply the meaning of 'YOUR CPF MONEY' ? Can I set a will to have any of my cpf not yet withdrawn to be distributed to my nominated surviving family members , if I could not survive to 85? If not, WHY ? I hope to hear answer from also the MAJORITY. You are so cute.
Any reply would be greatly appreciated. -
who is to check on the pool money, dont tell me another NKF saga again, I suggest the government come out the money for the pool to help those above 85, since the minister said only half will survive after 85 so there is really not much money to come for the pool, why the gahmen so stingy, always want to suck our money, moreover what happen u die at 83 or 84, u cant see the money at all or u die at 86, just collect for 1 year, what kind of scheme is this, better leave us alone, dont disturb us, Lim Swee Say is a yes man, no point talking to him, he cant represent us the workers
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Why is my money gonna be taken from me after I die and give to ppl I don't know???
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exactly this is what we dont like, fellow singaporeans this is an unpopular policy according to the ministers themselves, so let us unite in t the next GE show them some colour, dont be afraid to kick them out of parliament even they are ministers in GRC so what. No point have dialogue, they already decided to implement it, so it is more like a dictator regimeOriginally posted by caleb_chiang:Why is my money gonna be taken from me after I die and give to ppl I don't know??? -
i thought someone was talking about building a swimming pool in his backyard.
yea, it cost around $10k to build one here.
http://www.homehelp4u.net/tipsandplanning/swimming_pool_cost.php -
This Pool must be very good for YOU , the PEOPLE, right?Originally posted by t_a_s:exactly this is what we dont like, fellow singaporeans this is an unpopular policy according to the ministers themselves, so let us unite in t the next GE show them some colour, dont be afraid to kick them out of parliament even they are ministers in GRC so what. No point have dialogue, they already decided to implement it, so it is more like a dictator regime
Well, if not good for the People, would NOT EVEN ONE of the Ministers have cared enough for the People to have voiced the People concerns in Parlimen already? Except for 1 nmp, I dun recall seeing any of the full Ministers voicing out. This leads me to think that, they also feel the Pool is good for the People. When You die earlier than 85, whatever amount of cash left in your CPF flows into , not your family members, but the Pool for use for those yet undead. I hope this understanding is correct. Else, feel free to correct me.
The CNA report was not clear in the sense that it only says the Pool is used to payout those surviving. Does this mean the family member of the dead or to every unrelated retirees still not yet dead? -
Singaporeans should tell the world loudly and proudly they are so Fortunate to have so many highest paid talents who love and care for them, truely and honestly. and they came up with the POOL.
Congratulations one and all. Your future is even more rosey than I have ever said before. Not just your future, all of YOUR Childrens future is now crystal clear. Lucky YOU!
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In a fund pool, the remaining persons get a larger share from the pool. Right?
10 people put 10$ each in the pool... 5 people die, the remaining 5 get $20 each?
So with this "pool" will we get more each month as people who paid the annuity die?
Pool...? I don't think so. -
Take your money and give to other people who live longer to enjoy
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u replace one form of disease with another. you do away with malnutrition which is replace by rich man's diseases such as heart disease, diabetes etc.
so in the end, u still die before 85. and all the money pooled will accumulate on and on,until one fine day, it grows big enough to attract "wolves".... den bye bye to that lump of "coffin-money"
that is what i understand. cos u pay more than u gain. look at the orbits in the newspaper today, do u really see half of the people inside dying above 85? this annuity scheme is juz a coax to scam more money from people.
and do u think that $300 is going to be enough by the time u reach 85? somemore the $$$ is managed by private company, and that means that it will be written in contract, black and white. the government will be unable to adjust the payouts to adjust for inflation.
bus fare use to cost 15¢ 20 years ago. now it has jump 4X to 60¢ in 20 yrs.
by the time u reach 85, u will need at least $1200 / month to get along. -
haha. japan's "PAP" finally got the first political defeat after 50 yrs....Originally posted by t_a_s:exactly this is what we dont like, fellow singaporeans this is an unpopular policy according to the ministers themselves, so let us unite in t the next GE show them some colour, dont be afraid to kick them out of parliament even they are ministers in GRC so what. No point have dialogue, they already decided to implement it, so it is more like a dictator regime -
$300 by the time 35 years later due to inflation it is not even enough to pay for electricity bill and C&C charges, how about daily meals? who can pay for us ? PAP?? after taking our annuity money, we still suffer after 35 years, if u r lucky to be alive. It is no joke, dont joke abt "bo geh, bo lui" after 35 years he already dead, do u think he can hear ppl complaing this gahmen never take care of the ppl 35 years ago, it is a jokeOriginally posted by deathmaster:u replace one form of disease with another. you do away with malnutrition which is replace by rich man's diseases such as heart disease, diabetes etc.
so in the end, u still die before 85. and all the money pooled will accumulate on and on,until one fine day, it grows big enough to attract "wolves".... den bye bye to that lump of "coffin-money"
that is what i understand. cos u pay more than u gain. look at the orbits in the newspaper today, do u really see half of the people inside dying above 85? this annuity scheme is juz a coax to scam more money from people.
and do u think that $300 is going to be enough by the time u reach 85? somemore the $$$ is managed by private company, and that means that it will be written in contract, black and white. the government will be unable to adjust the payouts to adjust for inflation.
bus fare use to cost 15¢ 20 years ago. now it has jump 4X to 60¢ in 20 yrs.
by the time u reach 85, u will need at least $1200 / month to get along. -
so the increase of 2% GST to 7% was not enough to cover the poor, and yet the very people who are paying for this 7% GST now have the obligation if dead before 85 have to forfeit out his remaining to those who are still alive way past 85??
wouldn't it be more advisable if i just tell my mum to quit the citizenship so that she can withdraw her entire remaining cpf and enjoy her life savings the she wants to? afterall shes already done enough working all this years and paying tax & contributing to the singapore economy as a workforce.... etc?
IF THE GAHMEN DOES NOT HAVE THE OBLIGATION TO HELP THE OLD AND NEEDY SINCERELY? WHY THE NEED FOR THEM TO FORCE THIS UNTO THE COMMON FOLKS? AFTERALL WELFARE IS SUCH A DIRTY WORD ISN;T IT? PAP? -
If the Government and the MIW has any heart for Singaproeans, they should not take the final small balance CPF amounts from the Aged Singaporeans.
Instead, this Government and the Self-acclaimed MIW Elites should have thought of contributing 1% of the GROSS or NET PROFITS of all the Government Linked Companies, and pay for the ANNUAL ANNUITY PREMIUMS to protect all Singaporeans.
The Profits from these Government Linked Companies rightfully belonged to Singaporeans, as these Government Linked Companies had been started up with PUBLIC FUNDS - taken from the Finance Ministry.
When the MIW came into Political Power in 1957, it was the CPF monies that helped build Singapore to what it is today.
Where were the sources of the capital to set up SIA, ST Engineering in its many hybrid forms - [that covers air, land and sea] - in the early years, and also Chartered Industries that manufacture ammunition for the SAF and the Police Force - as well as exporting the weapons and ammunition that it manufacture ?
Where were the sources of the capital to set up National Orient Line, Keppel Shipyard, Sembawang Shipyard, Jurong Shipyard ?
There were also the government linked INTRACO that committed millions of Singapore Dollars to dabble in strategic commodities in competition with the Private Sector, and suffered losses at the hands of private enterprise.
Surely, Singaporeans in their Old Age should be able to at least savour the fruits of our own labor, with the Annuity Scheme funded from a small percentage of the Gross or Net Profits of the Government Linked Companies ? -
What is HOME Ownership?
What is YOUR CPF ? -
Home ownership means you own it for 99 years only.Originally posted by reddressman:What is HOME Ownership?
What is YOUR CPF ?
Really. -
more like u rent it for 99yrsOriginally posted by charlize:Home ownership means you own it for 99 years only.
Really. -
Ooops.Originally posted by Kouyou:more like u rent it for 99yrs
My bad, my bad. -
in singapore terms..really.. welcome to singapore...Originally posted by charlize:Home ownership means you own it for 99 years only.
Really. -
singaporeans should help each other.
thats the basic guideline. -
If anyone is going to live beyond 85, jolly well plan for your retirement needs. The majority will not want to contribute to a pool to fund you.
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Singaporeans help one another? ha ha.Originally posted by dragg:singaporeans should help each other.
thats the basic guideline.
My experience is that Singaproeans are not united especially the chinese. This is just my personal opinion. Feel free to object.
The Indians are much more united and they help each other.
With the possibility of Compulsory Annuity to imposed on every singaporean with CPF account, I feel very glad that such a marvellous scheme was designed and to be implemented. Every singaporean will get this. This is a great news. I am happy for singaporeans DESPITE singaporeans not united to help one another. We live in a society where money , rice bowl is on top of anything else. Myself 1st, always.
If not for the compulsory annuity, I would not have something to Congratulate you the Singaporeans. I am a singaporean also.
Who dares to say Annuity is not a good thing?
Congrats Singaporeans. You deserve it. Every drop of it. -
moreover, welfare is a dirty word.Originally posted by reddressman:Singaporeans help one another? ha ha.
My experience is that Singaproeans are not united especially the chinese. This is just my personal opinion. Feel free to object.
The Indians are much more united and they help each other.
With the possibility of Compulsory Annuity to imposed on every singaporean with CPF account, I feel very glad that such a marvellous scheme was designed and to be implemented. Every singaporean will get this. This is a great news. I am happy for singaporeans DESPITE singaporeans not united to help one another. We live in a society where money , rice bowl is on top of anything else. Myself 1st, always.
If not for the compulsory annuity, I would not have something to Congratulate you the Singaporeans. I am a singaporean also.
Who dares to say Annuity is not a good thing?
Congrats Singaporeans. You deserve it. Every drop of it. -
why does this sound like a rub of salt on the wound?Originally posted by reddressman:Congrats Singaporeans. You deserve it. Every drop of it. -
Why is the Government back tracking on making Singaporeans more 'Self-reliant' ?
If nobody owe us a living, and this has been the case since 1957 - why will the Government interfere now - to make us owe ourselves and owe to others a living when we reach 80+ of age ?
Why is this Government so generous in giving away our money ?
After $3 Billion given to Thaksin, $10 Billion sunk into Suzhou, and the Billions of Singapore Dollars spent on failed foreign projects by various Government Owned Companies - are these public funds given out still not enough ?
Now the Singapore Government would like to be generous with the way our CPF money is to be utilised during our retirement years.
As this piece is written, ChannelnewsAsia is telecasting the 'meet the people event' conducted by PM LHL and his Ministers.
If Minister Tharman claim that Singapore is the only advanced country on the globe to have an Annuity Scheme; and PM LHL claim that the Government is willing to approve an additional 1% interest payable to the first $60,000, which will cost the government $700million annually - then why will this Government not simply pay the 1% directly into the Annuity Scheme on an annual basis, instead of paying the 1% as interest to CPF member and expect the final amount to be thrown into a pool ?
Was PM LHL correct that the 1% additional interest paid will cost the Government $700million annually ?
Looking at the population statistics, it takes a big leap of imagination to see the $700million as realistic for the additional 1% interest paid on the first $60k in the CPF.
Minister Tharman had honestly said that Singapoer is late in this game of getting an Annuity Scheme started - and he should have been more honest in saying that it was purposefully wrong to have opted for a CPF scheme in 1957, instead of going for a National Social Insurance scheme.
We are now 50 years late, and the Government is making the generation who are now in their twilights years to kick-start this Annuity Scheme, without any contribution from the Government.
If the present generation of aged were to pass on, we will be haunted by the thought of living on their remaining monies left in the Annuity Scheme ?
Can we survive on a payout of $270 per month from the Annuity Scheme ?
What is the value of this $270 per month in ten years time from today - taking inflation into consideration ?
What can $270 per month fetch ?