Someone From Malaysia Told Me....
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Of course it was never a one-sided decision. When have I ever said so?Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:No, no. You are limiting leaders to SG - that I know. The separation wasn't a decision involving one set of leaders. Your suspicion is misplaced.
You think LKY says seperate and wooblah!.....seperation? Goodness.
Comprehension problem and then you try to place it as my misreading....my oh my. -
It is useless to throw rocks into the pile that makes up the crap - which is what makes 'The GoodEarth'.
A brain that is no better then a pile of crap will not be able to differentiate ordinary rocks from fallen stars. -
Singapore kicked out of Malaysia? Or was it more of us wanting out?Originally posted by RatFink:Eh.. please lah!!! You want to laugh at other people must get your own facts right first.
Like or not, good or bad. Know our history. Singapore kicked out of Malaysia. LKY cried.
Good or bad. Donno. We live without Malaysia? Definately.
Biut fact is fact. We kicked out of Malaysia.
We were the only state in Malaya where the Chinese race was overwhelmingly predominant. How would we have survived under the Bumiputera policy? Surely LKY had considered that.
Tunku Abdul Rahman was also afraid of the Chinese in Malaya supporting the PAP due to its rapidly expanding influence. How would this have affected UMNO? PAP knew it would have little standing and be forced out eventually someday.
In that sense, LKY had the vision and guts to take this painful decision of seperation. Considering the hostile circumstances back then, you think he really wanted to stay?
Or could it have been another conspiracy where he made use of Malaya to gain independence? It was Tunku Abdul Rahman who made the trip to Britain that finally secured the independence from British rule. Any idea what Malaysian history books say over the causeway?
Know your history? Think again. -
Hmmm .... interesting. Can you tell me which history text you use? Need to read books, especially foreign ones if not some forumers call me stupid!Originally posted by Rock^Star:Know your history? Think again.
Also, are you (in a way) implying that LKY planned the separation, so his crying, are crocodile tears? -
give him the usual NPNT...Originally posted by mhcampboy:he can still dare to tell me to go search old news archive.... or ask the media or any MALAYSIANS!! WTF! -
As quoted from Malaysian history textbooks. Inside, you will find how it contradicts the Singaporean version.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:Hmmm .... interesting. Can you tell me which history text you use? Need to read books, especially foreign ones if not some forumers call me stupid!
Also, are you (in a way) implying that LKY planned the separation, so his crying, are crocodile tears?
LKY could have planned the seperation...that is one theory. On the other hand, Singapore then had no natural resources and a seperation would have put us at peril. It was an extremely painful decision for LKY. -
simple leh
ask him to prove it lor
if its in the newspapers or media he should be able to produce the newspaper article -
Do you need anyone to tell you that you are stupid ?Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:Hmmm .... interesting. Can you tell me which history text you use? Need to read books, especially foreign ones if not some forumers call me stupid!
Also, are you (in a way) implying that LKY planned the separation, so his crying, are crocodile tears?
With the GoodEarth made from a pile of crap, how much more stupidly crappy can you hope to be ?
LKY should have known better to cry his belated crocodile tears, when he ignored his agreement with TAR - not to enter the political arena in Peninsular Malaya.
He had to set up the DAP in the same mirror image of the PAP and had his trusted Devan Nair to be the Secretary-General.
He simply had to take the battle into the Malayan heartlands, to battle the Malay Ultras on their home turf, and this response was a result of UMNO setting up a branch in Singapore.
Tit-for-tat that was the game that LKY was best at.
Crocodile tears ?
Hardly, that was his only face-saving way out after he ignored all the calls from concerned Singaporeans that Singapore should not enter into a Federation of Malaysia on unequal terms; but he purposefully went ahead with a 'Referendum' that - many politicians of the day had claimed - was fixed to guarantee the outcome that he wanted. -
Ah Atobe, in terms of the seperation, I dare say your knowledge here in this forum is second to none.
Your esteemed views are always an enlightening read. -
Both PKMS and DAP are well-entrenched in domestic politics on their respective turf.
PKMS has since joined the NSP and SPP to form the SDA, while DAP had a short-lived alliance with the PAS. -
Don't want to do your research for you. Go read history of our region. Don't read Malaysia side don't read Singapore side. Read neutral report.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Singapore - "resulted in Singapore's expulsion from Malaysia"
"I consider it a misfortune to make this announcement. This concerns the separation of Singapore from Malaysia"
"For me it is a moment of anguish. All my life, my whole adult life, I have believed in merger and the unity of the two territories; It broke everything we stood for"
"My dream is shattered and so we come now to the parting of the ways"
Know who say that before crying on TV?
Go find out.
On August 9, 1965, Tunku Abdul Rahman issued a proclamation that Singapore would cease to be part of Malaysia and become independent and separate.
Tunku Abdul Rahman from PAP yah? He Singaporean yah?Originally posted by Rock^Star:Singapore kicked out of Malaysia? Or was it more of us wanting out?
We were the only state in Malaya where the Chinese race was overwhelmingly predominant. How would we have survived under the Bumiputera policy? Surely LKY had considered that.
Tunku Abdul Rahman was also afraid of the Chinese in Malaya supporting the PAP due to its rapidly expanding influence. How would this have affected UMNO? PAP knew it would have little standing and be forced out eventually someday.
In that sense, LKY had the vision and guts to take this painful decision of seperation. Considering the hostile circumstances back then, you think he really wanted to stay?
Or could it have been another conspiracy where he made use of Malaya to gain independence? It was Tunku Abdul Rahman who made the trip to Britain that finally secured the independence from British rule. Any idea what Malaysian history books say over the causeway?
Know your history? Think again. -
Borneo shouldve followed suit. But we got our @ss conned real bad... while the birghtest men and most influencial were in the jungles fighting... some elected represntative from west decided to represent the people.. with much oppposition to go west... n sign it. West claiming that if dun join , Indo will attack us.. cause they at border.. but actually they were just cornering the communists to the border.
shafted up the @ss. -
we were forced out!!!
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yayaya papaya, Atobe is the most un-stupid but I managed to pile my crap on his bull-sh....t, lei!Originally posted by Atobe:[color=darkred]Do you need anyone to tell you that you are stupid ?
With the GoodEarth made from a pile of crap, how much more stupidly crappy can you hope to be ? -
The Wikipedia is open to anyone to upload information and the accuracy is dependent on the agenda as much as on factual reporting.Originally posted by RatFink:Don't want to do your research for you. Go read history of our region. Don't read Malaysia side don't read Singapore side. Read neutral report.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Singapore - "resulted in Singapore's expulsion from Malaysia"
"I consider it a misfortune to make this announcement. This concerns the separation of Singapore from Malaysia"
"For me it is a moment of anguish. All my life, my whole adult life, I have believed in merger and the unity of the two territories; It broke everything we stood for"
"My dream is shattered and so we come now to the parting of the ways"
Know who say that before crying on TV?
Go find out.
On August 9, 1965, Tunku Abdul Rahman issued a proclamation that Singapore would cease to be part of Malaysia and become independent and separate.
Tunku Abdul Rahman from PAP yah? He Singaporean yah?
The records of one historical event may not tell the whole story behind the scenes that led to any one major incident.
Why did LKY insist in pushing Singapore into Malaysia despite the many voices from Singaporeans who knew better the workings in the minds of Peninsular Malay Politicians ?
Many Singaporean politicians and civil leaders of the day had reviled at the terms and conditions for Singapore to enter Malaysia, as these were not in our favor even in the basic form - when our State Revenues outweighed that of any single state in the Peninsular as well as Sabah and Sarawak; yet our entire revenue was to be given to the Federal Treasury and a portion returned for our own development.
The question of the Malay Rights was never cleared satisfactorily and led to the many acrimonious and racist arguments between Singapore Politicians and the Peninsular Malay Ultras that inflamed emotions and suspicion to this day - even towards our own Singaporean Malays - {note LKY's famous snide remarks about a religious Malay trusted with a machine gun to defend Singapore}.
Almost twenty years late, on a state visit to Brunei - LKY had the cheek to praise the memory of the previous Sultan of Brunei that if only LKY had half the wisdom of the previous Sultan in not letting Brunei enter into Malaysia, then Singapore would not have the problems that linger till this day.
If only the memoirs of those other major political personalities had been publised, at least the inside stories would have been told.
Why was the surviving familiy members of ex-President Devan Nair and Dr Lee Siew Choh strongly urged not to publish their respective memoirs - when both knew the importance of leaving their side of the stories for posterity sake ?
Both personalities living on opposite side of the globe knew that their own time were coming to an end, and the memories of their time living through those tumultous period need to be documented, and both had the able assistance from their very qualified children to help them with recording their memoirs as their life expired.
Yet, important emissaries were sent to each family to persuade them to let the past go, and allow themselves to lead a new chapter without entangling themselves into the politics of the day.
Is there so much painful truth that cannot be revealed ?
Is it a surprise that except for an amiable Dr Goh Keng Swee being the only one from the Old Guard that embarked on his memoirs, the other retired members of the Old Guard from this Ruling Party - who had reknown acrimonious relations with the Old Guard Elite Leadership - had remained silent to this day ?
Did money bought the silence, as they were not forgotten in the self-rewarding schemes of the present day MIWs, or is their silence imposed by the Oath of Secrecy that each took before entering Government Service ? -
History aside, I'm just glad Singapore is not part of Malaysia.
Bumiputera policy? Over my dead body. No way. I cannot tolerate such open discrimination and suppression on other ethnic groups.
Bumiputera policy included:
1. Housing discount for Malays.
2. Gov agencies workforce must be made up of 80% of Malays. Even there is
no Malay candidate, they are unlikely to hire other ethnic candidate for the
job vanancy.
3. All public listed companies, including MNC, must have certain number of
Malay directors(obviously they are not up to mark and simply do nothing).
4. School and university priority.
5. A Chinese/Indian cannot buy a Malays house. But Malay can buy
Chinese/Indian house. 1 side property sales only.
Just to list down a few.
Source: My few Malaysian friends who are sick of and pissed off by the Bumiputera policy -
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He interpret wrongly lah...
But in 1990s, Singapore and Malaysia do intend to discuss on joint economic zone... but it never succeed ... Coz, water issue, railway issue and blah blah... -
Actually, Singapore want to collabrate with Malaysia in many things... It will make Singapore's life easier... From the negotiation table, it seems like Singapore want more collabration than Malaysia want more... So, from tat point of view, yes... Singapore is more humble than Malaysia counter partOriginally posted by ispyyy:He interpret wrongly lah...
But in 1990s, Singapore and Malaysia do intend to discuss on joint economic zone... but it never succeed ... Coz, water issue, railway issue and blah blah...
Anyway, the fact is tat Malaysia love to see Singapore die... -
w/o the bumi policy, msia will be like indonesia...Originally posted by Spartans:History aside, I'm just glad Singapore is not part of Malaysia.
Bumiputera policy? Over my dead body. No way. I cannot tolerate such open discrimination and suppression on other ethnic groups.
Bumiputera policy included:
1. Housing discount for Malays.
2. Gov agencies workforce must be made up of 80% of Malays. Even there is
no Malay candidate, they are unlikely to hire other ethnic candidate for the
job vanancy.
3. All public listed companies, including MNC, must have certain number of
Malay directors(obviously they are not up to mark and simply do nothing).
4. School and university priority.
5. A Chinese/Indian cannot buy a Malays house. But Malay can buy
Chinese/Indian house. 1 side property sales only.
Just to list down a few.
Source: My few Malaysian friends who are sick of and pissed off by the Bumiputera policy
the problem of the bumi policy is that it only benefit certain group of ppl...
that's y some malay also dont like the policy.
ur fren pissed off simply bcos they cmi.. many chinese are doing very well there -
Hello they are NUS undergrad leh. what cannot make it? dun make baseless accusation. U have to be a Malaysian Chinese to experience how they feel.Originally posted by WildWildWet:w/o the bumi policy, msia will be like indonesia...
the problem of the bumi policy is that it only benefit certain group of ppl...
that's y some malay also dont like the policy.
ur fren pissed off simply bcos they cmi.. many chinese are doing very well there
My guess is those Malaysian Malays who hold the bumi policy dearly are those who cannot make it. Poor grade, nvm still can go uni. No job? go government agency la.
Look at Proton. A good example how much it has declined as a company when it has to employ 80% of its workforce Malays. Are we sure all of them get the job due to merit or race? -
True, TAR kicked Singapore out.Originally posted by RatFink:Eh.. please lah!!! You want to laugh at other people must get your own facts right first.
Like or not, good or bad. Know our history. Singapore kicked out of Malaysia. LKY cried.
Good or bad. Donno. We live without Malaysia? Definately.
Biut fact is fact. We kicked out of Malaysia.
And Sarawak, Sabah got played out.
They joined Malaysia because they believed in LKY's Malaysia for all races.
Now Sarawak and Sabah are marginalised into oblivion.
Any one heard of East Malaysia? -
whatever it is im glad we are not part of malaysia.
no offence to malaysians but i much rather stay here in SG. just take a look around at the infrastructure. -
Wikipedia is hardly anything even proxy to neutral. Given wikipedia's popularity the world over, the govt would surely monitor its contents. Would it then be surprising that a lot of the information inside is presented the way that they would like it seen?Originally posted by RatFink:Don't want to do your research for you. Go read history of our region. Don't read Malaysia side don't read Singapore side. Read neutral report.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Singapore - "resulted in Singapore's expulsion from Malaysia"
"I consider it a misfortune to make this announcement. This concerns the separation of Singapore from Malaysia"
"For me it is a moment of anguish. All my life, my whole adult life, I have believed in merger and the unity of the two territories; It broke everything we stood for"
"My dream is shattered and so we come now to the parting of the ways"
Know who say that before crying on TV?
Go find out.
On August 9, 1965, Tunku Abdul Rahman issued a proclamation that Singapore would cease to be part of Malaysia and become independent and separate.
Tunku Abdul Rahman from PAP yah? He Singaporean yah?
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that the video transcript that you posted above is inaccurate, just that politics is a dark world.
While I'm not disputing that LKY has genuinely taken a painstaking decision on seperation, neither do I disregard that he also wanted it to happen. One cannot take everything a politician says at face value, both sides of the story should be consulted.
Back in the 1960s, would a person of LKY's shrewdness not have foreseen the effects of the Bumiputera policy on Singaporean Chinese? I wouldn't bet on that.
If you have a better neutral opinion on this issue, keep me in the loop. I'm all eyes. -
Interesting. Not taking any sides here and I genuinely want to know.
Every history book I've read and just about all magazines - asiaweek, newsweek, etc - news websites - china times, australian time even - states that Singapore was, to put it gently, asked to leave.
The only references I can find anywhere to Singapore chosing to leave are blogs and forums. Posters who speculate that "LKY was shrewed" and can't possibly have been kicked out... he must have planned it. Just speculations.
Where can I find posts for reliable (as reliable as can be after so many years have passed anyway) reports supporting the arguement that LKY orchestrated the seperation?