capital punishment -- for or against?
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If the judges in Singapore can't even have proper judgement to deliver justice or being dictated by the PAP, why do people want to give them another option to cause more injustice?
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sometimes to live is worse than death.Originally posted by dumbdumb!:so you're alright if someone kills another guy but not pay with his life? while the victim's family have to live with the knowledge that their loved one's life is lost and the killer remains live? not mentioning that the victim's family members are paying tax dollars to feed the killer?
the only drawback i feel about the death penalty is if the accused is framed. then it would be a really sad waste of life.
I am more against the death sentence than for.
Against is that I feel our island is abusing the death sentence, by overusing it.
For is that some people deserve it, such as serial murderers or rapists.
But if given a choice, I would rather be against the death sentence. It is never right to take one's life. We are not God, we cannot act like God. -
Originally posted by Fatum:
the murderers committed an offence -- that's something that we all agree with. however, will killing them benefit society? sure, they can't murder any longer, but there will always be other murderers to take their place. people are always going to kill, regardless of whether or not the death penalty exists.
who are we ? ...
WE are the collective ! ... the society ! ...
by that statement, are you not denying the rights to justice for the victims of crime ? ....
Every society has clearly defined boundaries of behavior, law and order is the corner stone of every civilization ... by denying justice, you will not create an utopia ... you will just create anarchy, chaos, a Darwinian place ...
[b]your sympathies are mis-placed my dear ... say then, who are the murderers then, to deny their victims' right as human beings ? .... their right to live ? ....
[/b]
do you really believe that they'd kill if they KNEW they were going to get caught and sentenced to a lifetime in jail? has it never occured to you that maybe these people don't BELIEVE that they'll get caught, or that they simply don't care?
do you really believe that murderers even THINK about their deeds before they are carried out? in many cases, murders have been committed in a spur of anger.
everyone deserves a second chance -- or a third chance, fourth chance, etc.
it takes time for people to realize that they were wrong. I know that you'd say that if it was MY relative killed, I'd want the murderer dead. That's true -- but then again, does it not merely strengthen the point that, in many cases, the death sentence is just an act of vengeance?
no one can revive the dead. killing the murderer will not bring the victim back to life. we're not bringing back any lives through capital punishment -- we're merely taking away more. -
against.
Punish by death = nothing wrong?
How about i kill some rapists/murderers in the name of justice -
I'm support Capital Punishment......
Serial Rapist should be included into the list........ -
Yes ... Justice IS vengeance .... it is not just the vengence of the victims, but the vengeance of a society.Originally posted by da-cheese-freakk:the murderers committed an offence -- that's something that we all agree with. however, will killing them benefit society? sure, they can't murder any longer, but there will always be other murderers to take their place. people are always going to kill, regardless of whether or not the death penalty exists.
do you really believe that they'd kill if they KNEW they were going to get caught and sentenced to a lifetime in jail? has it never occured to you that maybe these people don't BELIEVE that they'll get caught, or that they simply don't care?
do you really believe that murderers even THINK about their deeds before they are carried out? in many cases, murders have been committed in a spur of anger.
everyone deserves a second chance -- or a third chance, fourth chance, etc.
it takes time for people to realize that they were wrong. I know that you'd say that if it was MY relative killed, I'd want the murderer dead. That's true -- but then again, does it not merely strengthen the point that, in many cases, the death sentence is just an act of vengeance?
no one can revive the dead. killing the murderer will not bring the victim back to life. we're not bringing back any lives through capital punishment -- we're merely taking away more.
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe these people would kill again, if we just catch them and slap them on the wrists ? ...
and so how will locking people away for the rest of their lives benefit society ? ... other than imposing a heavy economic burden on the rest of society ?
in any case ... you agree that if it's YOUR relatives, YOUR loved ones that gets killed (I touched my wooden desk for you) ... you'd want vengeance ? ... right ?
Justice IS vengeance my dear .... people so often forget that .... and it is this very fear of vengeance, that will deter people from committing crimes, from killing or trafficking drugs .... people will not be afraid of getting caught, if getting caught meant nothing to them ... it is this fear of punishment, that'll make people think twice ...
the big case in Canada right now is the Vancouver pig farm serial murder case, this pig farmer raped and murdered and cut up the bodies of more than 50 young women (and that's just the bodies they've found) at his pig farm in rural BC ... the case was so shocking that I've heard news of hardened forensic technicians vomiting at the crime scene on the morning radio ... while at the trial the chap was smug and happy .... why ? ... cos Canada no longer has the death penalty .... he knows he'll live a long long life ... on the tax-payers expenses .... meanwhile .... more than 50 families are having to deal with the pain of loosing their loved ones ... while the one that took their lives live and breathe on ....
Now you tell me, if you'd like to give that fellow a second chance ? ... you try explaining to the families who have lost their daughters that the one who raped and murdered and cut up their daughters and feed the pieces through a meat grinder was perhaps a victim of a broken single family etc etc ? ... that he deserves sympathies as a victim of his fate too ? ....
We can have an abstract and academic discussion like this cos major crimes are still pretty rare in Singapore ... not so in certain parts of where I live now ... -
As I said, in my opinion, the Death sentence is a SACRED tool and should never be used excessively.Originally posted by Fatum:Yes ... Justice IS vengeance .... it is not just the vengence of the victims, but the vengeance of a society.
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe these people would kill again, if we just catch them and slap them on the wrists ? ...
and so how will locking people away for the rest of their lives benefit society ? ... other than imposing a heavy economic burden on the rest of society ?
in any case ... you agree that if it's YOUR relatives, YOUR loved ones that gets killed (I touched my wooden desk for you) ... you'd want vengeance ? ... right ?
Justice IS vengeance my dear .... people so often forget that .... and it is this very fear of vengeance, that will deter people from committing crimes, from killing or trafficking drugs .... people will not be afraid of getting caught, if getting caught meant nothing to them ... it is this fear of punishment, that'll make people think twice ...
the big case in Canada right now is the Vancouver pig farm serial murder case, this pig farmer raped and murdered and cut up the bodies of more than 50 young women (and that's just the bodies they've found) at his pig farm in rural BC ... the case was so shocking that I've heard news of hardened forensic technicians vomiting at the crime scene on the morning radio ... while at the trial the chap was smug and happy .... why ? ... cos Canada no longer has the death penalty .... he knows he'll live a long long life ... on the tax-payers expenses .... meanwhile .... more than 50 families are having to deal with the pain of loosing their loved ones ... while the one that took their lives live and breathe on ....
Now you tell me, if you'd like to give that fellow a second chance ? ... you try explaining to the families who have lost their daughters that the one who raped and murdered and cut up their daughters and feed the pieces through a meat grinder was perhaps a victim of a broken single family etc etc ? ... that he deserves sympathies as a victim of his fate too ? ....
We can have an abstract and academic discussion like this cos major crimes are still pretty rare in Singapore ... not so in certain parts of where I live now ...
In your case above, I would say we should take away a hardcore murderer's life. -
but if God did give the command to take the life of a murderer etc, its not playing God anymore. you're just carrying out his instructions.Originally posted by soul_rage:sometimes to live is worse than death.
I am more against the death sentence than for.
Against is that I feel our island is abusing the death sentence, by overusing it.
For is that some people deserve it, such as serial murderers or rapists.
But if given a choice, I would rather be against the death sentence. It is never right to take one's life. We are not God, we cannot act like God. -
'If a man strikes someone with an iron object so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death. 17 Or if anyone has a stone in his hand that could kill, and he strikes someone so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death.
Or if anyone has a stone in his hand that could kill, and he strikes someone so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death.
Or if anyone has a wooden object in his hand that could kill, and he hits someone so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death.
The avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death; when he meets him, he shall put him to death
If anyone with malice aforethought shoves another or throws something at him intentionally so that he dies or if in hostility he hits him with his fist so that he dies, that person shall be put to death; he is a murderer. The avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death when he meets him
Anyone who kills a person is to be put to death as a murderer only on the testimony of witnesses. But no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness.
Do not accept a ransom for the life of a murderer, who deserves to die. He must surely be put to death.
These are from the bible, God's words. So its not playing God to put a murderer to death. -
Wrong forum dude. Your last sentence should be at EH forum.Originally posted by soul_rage:sometimes to live is worse than death.
I am more against the death sentence than for.
Against is that I feel our island is abusing the death sentence, by overusing it.
For is that some people deserve it, such as serial murderers or rapists.
But if given a choice, I would rather be against the death sentence. It is never right to take one's life. We are not God, we cannot act like God. -
i was quoting someone who said we shouldn't play God. i'm just saying that if this was what God said, then it's not playing God any longer.Originally posted by Darkness_hacker99:Wrong forum dude. Your last sentence should be at EH forum.
its nothing explicitly religious
eh, not me ah ok.
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If want to say about religious thing, please go to other forum ok? Here is about politics.
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just a side thought ....
this is not someone's JC GP homework topic is it ? ...
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justice is NOT vengeance. the line between the two is a fine one, but that does not mean that it ceases to exist.Originally posted by Fatum:Yes ... Justice IS vengeance .... it is not just the vengence of the victims, but the vengeance of a society.
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe these people would kill again, if we just catch them and slap them on the wrists ? ...
and so how will locking people away for the rest of their lives benefit society ? ... other than imposing a heavy economic burden on the rest of society ?
in any case ... you agree that if it's YOUR relatives, YOUR loved ones that gets killed (I touched my wooden desk for you) ... you'd want vengeance ? ... right ?
Justice IS vengeance my dear .... people so often forget that .... and it is this very fear of vengeance, that will deter people from committing crimes, from killing or trafficking drugs .... people will not be afraid of getting caught, if getting caught meant nothing to them ... it is this fear of punishment, that'll make people think twice ...
the big case in Canada right now is the Vancouver pig farm serial murder case, this pig farmer raped and murdered and cut up the bodies of more than 50 young women (and that's just the bodies they've found) at his pig farm in rural BC ... the case was so shocking that I've heard news of hardened forensic technicians vomiting at the crime scene on the morning radio ... while at the trial the chap was smug and happy .... why ? ... cos Canada no longer has the death penalty .... he knows he'll live a long long life ... on the tax-payers expenses .... meanwhile .... more than 50 families are having to deal with the pain of loosing their loved ones ... while the one that took their lives live and breathe on ....
Now you tell me, if you'd like to give that fellow a second chance ? ... you try explaining to the families who have lost their daughters that the one who raped and murdered and cut up their daughters and feed the pieces through a meat grinder was perhaps a victim of a broken single family etc etc ? ... that he deserves sympathies as a victim of his fate too ? ....
We can have an abstract and academic discussion like this cos major crimes are still pretty rare in Singapore ... not so in certain parts of where I live now ...
justice is when the law/smt that is morally acceptable is set into place or carried out.
vengeance is when someone, something or a place is harmed due to things that have happened in the past.
note the words "morally acceptable" and "in the past".
I find capital punishment rather ironic and hypocritical.
People are being killed for killing people.
Innocent men can be sentenced to death for things that they were never even aware of.
How can we be sure that we sentenced the right person? Wouldn't the financial conditions of particular people increase their chances of being sentenced to death? (Eg. they don't have enough money to hire a good lawyer.)
I agree with you that the canadian guy should die. (According to what you said,) He admitted to the crime, he was overly violent, and (I'm assuming) he never even understood or knew the people that he killed.
But the world isn't black and white.
Judges might not always be right or fair.
And circumstances aren't always like the one stated above.
Emotions cloud our judgement.
In Qatar, murderers are executed in public, and moments before they die, the victim's family is asked if they would like to show mercy.
That's one of the reasons why I dislike capital punishment. After learning about Qatar, I couldn't quite bring myself to think that ANYONE has the right to take ANYONE'S life away, no matter how many crimes he/she has committed. -
but how would we know?Originally posted by dumbdumb!:but if God did give the command to take the life of a murderer etc, its not playing God anymore. you're just carrying out his instructions.
Law is human-driven
Law is laid out by Man, not by God -
its pertaining to this topic.Originally posted by Darkness_hacker99:Wrong forum dude. Your last sentence should be at EH forum.
Some people for religious reasons, are against the capital punishment.
I am not about religion, but I mean our law is vulnerable to human errors and are determined by Man.
A well known old man in this island is famed for putting in new laws to ensure the population behaves according to what he wants. -
i mentioned above alreadyOriginally posted by soul_rage:but how would we know?
Law is human-driven
Law is laid out by Man, not by God -
of course the world isn't black and white ... but we're talking about black and white here ... for, or against, capital punishment, no ?Originally posted by da-cheese-freakk:justice is NOT vengeance. the line between the two is a fine one, but that does not mean that it ceases to exist.
justice is when the law/smt that is morally acceptable is set into place or carried out.
vengeance is when someone, something or a place is harmed due to things that have happened in the past.
note the words "morally acceptable" and "in the past".
I find capital punishment rather ironic and hypocritical.
People are being killed for killing people.
Innocent men can be sentenced to death for things that they were never even aware of.
How can we be sure that we sentenced the right person? Wouldn't the financial conditions of particular people increase their chances of being sentenced to death? (Eg. they don't have enough money to hire a good lawyer.)
I agree with you that the canadian guy should die. (According to what you said,) He admitted to the crime, he was overly violent, and (I'm assuming) he never even understood or knew the people that he killed.
But the world isn't black and white.
Judges might not always be right or fair.
And circumstances aren't always like the one stated above.
Emotions cloud our judgement.
In Qatar, murderers are executed in public, and moments before they die, the victim's family is asked if they would like to show mercy.
That's one of the reasons why I dislike capital punishment. After learning about Qatar, I couldn't quite bring myself to think that ANYONE has the right to take ANYONE'S life away, no matter how many crimes he/she has committed.
of course, the wrong man can be sentenced to death, but that is the failings of the judiciary, and not the failings of the punishment per se ... the distinction is a fine one too ...
the judiciary can be imperfect, as with all things, but what other alternatives do we have but to believe in it, and refine it ? ... airliners do crash every now and then .... do you stop taking them because of a crash ? ... of course ... if having a good or bad lawyer can be a determinant of guilt ... it can swing both ways too, no ? ... maybe a good enough lawyer can get the hell bait I mentioned above off 50 murders too, no ? ... remember, miscarriages of justice can swing both ways too ...
no system of justice is perfect of course ... but who are the people that defines what is "morally acceptable" ? ... the society of course .... we are back to the same place again ... just like the last discussion about brokebackers ...
as for your last bit ... I think you got your order of sympathies wrong ... think of it this way as an example ... victims of crime does not have the choice of whether to live or die ... the criminals simply took their lives away ... murderers have a choice whether to live or die, by deciding whether to kill someone or not ....
In enacting laws for capital punishment, the society does not decide to kill a murderer or a drug trafficker after he or she has committed a crime ... the laws are clear, he or she knows where the boundaries are, what the penalties are ... and that is the difference ... he or she commits a crime knowing full well what the consequences were ... the society does not ask for blood on it's hands ... the criminals decided their own fate .... -
okayokay, you've convinced meOriginally posted by Fatum:of course the world isn't black and white ... but we're talking about black and white here ... for, or against, capital punishment, no ?
of course, the wrong man can be sentenced to death, but that is the failings of the judiciary, and not the failings of the punishment per se ... the distinction is a fine one too ...
the judiciary can be imperfect, as with all things, but what other alternatives do we have but to believe in it, and refine it ? ... airliners do crash every now and then .... do you stop taking them because of a crash ? ... of course ... if having a good or bad lawyer can be a determinant of guilt ... it can swing both ways too, no ? ... maybe a good enough lawyer can get the hell bait I mentioned above off 50 murders too, no ? ... remember, miscarriages of justice can swing both ways too ...
no system of justice is perfect of course ... but who are the people that defines what is "morally acceptable" ? ... the society of course .... we are back to the same place again ... just like the last discussion about brokebackers ...
as for your last bit ... I think you got your order of sympathies wrong ... think of it this way as an example ... victims of crime does not have the choice of whether to live or die ... the criminals simply took their lives away ... murderers have a choice whether to live or die, by deciding whether to kill someone or not ....
In enacting laws for capital punishment, the society does not decide to kill a murderer or a drug trafficker after he or she has committed a crime ... the laws are clear, he or she knows where the boundaries are, what the penalties are ... and that is the difference ... he or she commits a crime knowing full well what the consequences were ... the society does not ask for blood on it's hands ... the criminals decided their own fate .... -
I say they should throw in tons of corporal punishments for that farmer in Canada before eventually they put him before the gallows.
Club his manhood; clobber his jewels. Shave his head and skin his torso. Then pierce a thousand needles into his eyes; instill the dread and fear of the world into his very soul.
Finally, put him before the rope. Utter the harshest of words, say whatever that would send shivers into his very soul. When he is most frightened and without peace in heart, hang him.
For a man like him, deserve not to be at peace with himself and with God before death. For death is too cheap a price to pay for so many lives he had robbed and so many families he grieved.
May I suggest that his corpse shall be whipped before his family after he died. -
For..............
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Hatred does not remedy crimes.Originally posted by Detached:I say they should throw in tons of corporal punishments for that farmer in Canada before eventually they put him before the gallows.
Club his manhood; clobber his jewels. Shave his head and skin his torso. Then pierce a thousand needles into his eyes; instill the dread and fear of the world into his very soul.
Finally, put him before the rope. Utter the harshest of words, say whatever that would send shivers into his very soul. When he is most frightened and without peace in heart, hang him.
For a man like him, deserve not to be at peace with himself and with God before death. For death is too cheap a price to pay for so many lives he had robbed and so many families he grieved.
May I suggest that his corpse shall be whipped before his family after he died.