Ang Moh can stage protest in Singapore, Singaporeans cannot?
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I can't stand Dr Chee or his SDP. Given a chance, I might prefer a WP government then a SDP lead one....Originally posted by macabresg:Sometimes I pity Dr Chee for being a punchbag of PAP. He's got the courage to challenge them but I think Singaporeans already formed a permanent bad impression of him already. -
Different story.Originally posted by drawer:It doesnt mean that if you are root for Singaporeans,u must have watched Jack Neo's movies.The Americans produce hundred of movies each year,if they were to watch every movies that they produce so as to prove they are "root for Americans",then i think they will be damn busy!!!
The American Hollywood is THE name internationally. Hollywood produces unrealistic movies and is bent on media hegemony and imperialism. Even Americans criticise Hollywood for the sex and violence rampant in their movies.
Whereas local productions are realistic (to the point the characters speak not mandarin but dialects) and represent the voice of citizens. Sex and violence are minimal.
It is funny to have people complaining the government does not support this, does not support that and yet, citizens are not supporting their own works? -
hmm... by saying this, i can be sure that you still dont understand how the singapore system works. have you serve NS before? if not then nvm. you never understand.Originally posted by Icemoon:If mainstream propaganda pro-PAP, how come they fight with ex-NKF, another pro-PAP organization?
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what is it about NS?Originally posted by freedom4ever:hmm... by saying this, i can be sure that you still dont understand how the singapore system works. have you serve NS before? if not then nvm. you never understand. -
what i cannot digest is why the local burmese, whose families are affected in the myanmar crisis, are denied the protest permit when, as the TS said, caucasians are allowed???!!!
it's like a wolf eating a baby chicken and the hen is suppose to go after the fox, but the farmer ask the goose to go after the wolf instead.
better not comment too much about this, or else who knows?
our government may shut down the entire internet here, cut off fax, cut off phone lines, SAF with riot shields charging into HDB flats dragging web users in the middle of the night into detention barracks, 5-tonners on the streets shouting "We have evidence! We are going to make arrests!" -
if they do this, they are proving to the whole world that they are communist.Originally posted by Nikar2:better not comment too much about this, or else who knows?
our government may shut down the entire internet here, cut off fax, cut off phone lines, SAF with riot shields charging into HDB flats dragging web users in the middle of the night into detention barracks, 5-tonners on the streets shouting "We have evidence! We are going to make arrests!"
erm... no. i forgot that the govt is not monitor by the media unlike other countries. things like this will be cover up to save their so call democratic society. -
On the contrary, I criticise Hollywood for the amount of censorship implemented in their movies. That's why a lot of movies are released on two different DVD versions - US and international - the international version being the uncensored one.Originally posted by Icemoon:Different story.
The American Hollywood is THE name internationally. Hollywood produces unrealistic movies and is bent on media hegemony and imperialism. Even Americans criticise Hollywood for the sex and violence rampant in their movies.
Whereas local productions are realistic (to the point the characters speak not mandarin but dialects) and represent the voice of citizens. Sex and violence are minimal.
It is funny to have people complaining the government does not support this, does not support that and yet, citizens are not supporting their own works?
Likewise, isn't violence part of realism? When someone gets shot in the head for example, wouldn't his brains splatter all over the place in real life? Censoring it by toning down the gore just makes it unrealistic. In the same way that removing nudity from films takes away realism. -
Cos they are invited foreign talents mah...
SG'reans are treated like ^&*( in SG... That's why so many left... -
I think there is a reason here. CSJ's protest earlier had some criticism of our Government as he compares Myanmar's Junta to our govt. However, the Ang Moh's are merely criticising the Myanmar Junta without bringing our govt is. So, that explains a lot.
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What does free speech mean to you?Originally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:More rights? Please, you don't even have the right of free speech. You don't have the right to even stand up for your rights.
What is there in Singapore that you cannot talk about.
You cannot critize the government?
Think!!!!
You can say NS is crap.
You can say the annuity scheme is a ploy to hold back money.
You can say whatever the government does is crap.
But say a minister is a crook, thats a no no.
And when you want to bs a minister's speech, have a sound argument, its only fair.
Remember God too do not have freedom of speech.
And as some one posted here, just what are we doing here?
Saying "you don't even have the right of free speech" is a sweeping statement that is parrotted mindlessly by you.
"You don't have the right to even stand up for your rights" another ignoramous statement.
Just what did Jonathan Loke did? He stood up for his rights. Are you aware of that?
A doctor was beaten up, the police was forced to act, and not treat it as a civil case. What is that?
Please, know what you are saying, and stop parroting the sad muckers.
I guess you believe we are not allowed to chew gum too.
Anyone who believe that, do not know enough. -
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Copy and post in wrong thread. -
i always feel that in terms of the basic concept behind myanmar and singapore's government, we are very similar in lots of aspects.
the main difference is that when burmese offen the junta, the latter uses bloody, physical violence.
when SGreans offen the gahmen, the latter adopts a civilized way to kill you without shedding blood (we all know what it is).
chee soon juan and others before him are all good examples. -
Nope,i still respect Dr Chee for having the courage to challenge the PAP no matter how bad the media criticize him.Becoz i also know that the media is controlled by no LP PAP,so Dr Chee was not so bad as what media say he was.Originally posted by macabresg:Sometimes I pity Dr Chee for being a punchbag of PAP. He's got the courage to challenge them but I think Singaporeans already formed a permanent bad impression of him already. -
I quite don't agree. Suppose i go up to Lee Hsien Loong and berate him for compelling us to purchase an annuity that many do not believe in. Further if i go on to say that he does not respect what we think even though his salary comes from the taxes and he should step down because he does not deserve to be the PM etc will i get sued ?Originally posted by Nikar2:i always feel that in terms of the basic concept behind myanmar and singapore's government, we are very similar in lots of aspects.
the main difference is that when burmese offen the junta, the latter uses bloody, physical violence.
when SGreans offen the gahmen, the latter adopts a civilized way to kill you without shedding blood (we all know what it is).
chee soon juan and others before him are all good examples.
What did Chee and Jeyaretnam do to get themselves sued ?
On a personal level, suppose i go up to Mr A who is having dinner with his family and his employees. I go up to his wife and tell her how pleased i was with her services the previous night. I go on and ask her if she is working tonight. Further, i get another 10 men and do the same thing. Do they have a legal recourse against me ? I'm sure they do.
Criticizing is one thing, slandering is another. Chee and Jeya got sued because of slander, not criticizing. I think we would do well to differentiate that less we live in fear of criticizing or posing questions to LKY during a forum. -
AgreeOriginally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:Likewise, isn't violence part of realism? When someone gets shot in the head for example, wouldn't his brains splatter all over the place in real life? Censoring it by toning down the gore just makes it unrealistic. In the same way that removing nudity from films takes away realism. -
You dont understand,sex and violence are essential factor for some movies.And they reflect in real life,why should they be minimal?Originally posted by Icemoon:Whereas local productions are realistic (to the point the characters speak not mandarin but dialects) and represent the voice of citizens. Sex and violence are minimal.
It is funny to have people complaining the government does not support this, does not support that and yet, citizens are not supporting their own works?
Another thing is not all local movies can attract ppl to watch them,different ppl got different taste,you cannot force Singaporeans to watch the movies just becoz they are local products. -
Well you try staging a protest to stand up for your rights and we'll see what happens. Try to publish an article in a local newspaper which criticises the government. God too does not have freedom of speech? No idea what you're talking about there. Want to deliver a speech to exercise your rights? No can do, gotta get a permit and good luck trying to get a permit to deliver a speech to the public about the shortcomings of the government. The Lee family has never lost a case in the supreme court, what does that tell you?Originally posted by mancha:What does free speech mean to you?
What is there in Singapore that you cannot talk about.
You cannot critize the government?
Think!!!!
You can say NS is crap.
You can say the annuity scheme is a ploy to hold back money.
You can say whatever the government does is crap.
But say a minister is a crook, thats a no no.
And when you want to bs a minister's speech, have a sound argument, its only fair.
Remember God too do not have freedom of speech.
And as some one posted here, just what are we doing here?
Saying "you don't even have the right of free speech" is a sweeping statement that is parrotted mindlessly by you.
"You don't have the right to even stand up for your rights" another ignoramous statement.
Just what did Jonathan Loke did? He stood up for his rights. Are you aware of that?
A doctor was beaten up, the police was forced to act, and not treat it as a civil case. What is that?
Please, know what you are saying, and stop parroting the sad muckers.
I guess you believe we are not allowed to chew gum too.
Anyone who believe that, do not know enough.
You Singaporeans are denied even basic human rights which are taken away by the use of corporal punishment. The condition of your prison cells violate UN regulations. Many people are locked away as 'political prisoners'. Their crime? Speaking out against the government for which they were imprisoned without trial. Still think you have your rights? -
this is very true. my teacher used to tell us this too. btw, you not singaporean?Originally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:Well you try staging a protest to stand up for your rights and we'll see what happens. Try to publish an article in a local newspaper which criticises the government. God too does not have freedom of speech? No idea what you're talking about there. Want to deliver a speech to exercise your rights? No can do, gotta get a permit and good luck trying to get a permit to deliver a speech to the public about the shortcomings of the government. The Lee family has never lost a case in the supreme court, what does that tell you?
You Singaporeans are denied even basic human rights which are taken away by the use of corporal punishment. The condition of your prison cells violate UN regulations. Many people are locked away as 'political prisoners'. Their crime? Speaking out against the government for which they were imprisoned without trial. Still think you have your rights? -
Protests and strikes do solve problems if used effectively. Ghandi did stage protests and look what he acheived in the end? And if memory serves me right, our late President Ong once sanctioned a strike in Singapore. Obviously then PM LKY wasn't too pleased, considering he was one of the chosen 4 to replace LKY as PM.Originally posted by Icemoon:Protests don't solve problems. Look, if you have so much energy protesting, why don't you stand vigil like the Burmese that night? You can pray to your god to help solve the problem.
The thing is, you have to understand that the law was created for a reason. I believe the legislators had the racial riots and the communist rallies in mind when drafting such laws. Hence, it seems rather oppressive now but served a purpose then. Granted, I believe (or hope to) that Singaporeans as a whole has matured. This particular piece of legislation should come under review, and possibly be reformed. Speaking to MPs, sending letters to the govt and writing in to the press aren't the only ways to provide constructive feedback.
I believe that Singaporeans have matured to a stage where they can voice their opinions through peaceful protestation, and our police can handle the situation adequately. -
why u cant stand what is the reason, u want opposition to be obedient to PAP gahmenOriginally posted by Herzog_Zwei:I can't stand Dr Chee or his SDP. Given a chance, I might prefer a WP government then a SDP lead one.... -
I don't think you will get sued. I think you will just be locked up for the rest of your life at the President's pleasure. They've got plenty of such laws to use, and they have the ability to hold people indefinitely without trial. Granted, due to the nature of the legislation, they use it sparingly. But the fact that they still do says something.Originally posted by kramnave:Suppose i go up to Lee Hsien Loong and berate him for compelling us to purchase an annuity that many do not believe in. Further if i go on to say that he does not respect what we think even though his salary comes from the taxes and he should step down because he does not deserve to be the PM etc will i get sued ?
Also, put it this way. It takes smart, brave and passionate people to actually be able to effect change against the govt. I look up to our late President Ong for that. He got himself into the Presidency with PAP backing, then went on to do his job. He kept the PAP on their toes, and I believe if not for his wife and his illness, he would have stood for re-election. He commented that once, the govt approved the sale of POSB to DBS without his approval, and he openly voiced his displeasure. Under the Consitution, you have to inform the President. Needless to say, everyone ended up quite unhappy and if I'm not mistaken, the President now has lesser powers. Not that it matters. -
For me, I just feel that CSJ is getting it wrong. His policies don't quite seem to hit the right notes with the public.Originally posted by t_a_s:why u cant stand what is the reason, u want opposition to be obedient to PAP gahmen
I'd prefer an opposition politician who will go into the Parliament and ask the right questions. The govt can throw up all sorts of numbers that they want about GDP, investment returns projections, policies for continued economic growth and fancy things like that, but simple questions can be overlooked. If you wateched Jack Neo's Just Follow Law, you'll see this scene where Gurmit Singh and his buddies go something like "govt always say economy is good, but where is the money? GST keep increasing, but my salary never increase leh."
It takes a brave and passionate person to actually ask simple questions like that. Rather than asking what your stand is when dealing with foreign policies, simple questions like "Mr Tan Ah Kow here has been a taxi driver for 20 years and his salary is still only barely $2000 a month after working 16 hour days almost daily. What are you doing to help people like him?" These questions make the govt sweat and are close to the hearts of Singaporeans.
Fact is, I believe you don't need eloquence nor complex forward planning leaders all the time. You need leaders who are in-tune with the ground. What's the point of charging forward if no-one follows? That's where I feel that CSJ and our current govt are getting it wrong. Still, I commend him for his bravery to stand up and sacrifice his life for his beliefs. -
Nope, Because Dr Chee tends to challenge without solving the problems and SDP just supports him. I compare WP to SDP and feel WP is somewhat better opposition party.Originally posted by t_a_s:why u cant stand what is the reason, u want opposition to be obedient to PAP gahmen -
Dr CSJ can go be stand-up comedian. I admire your straight to the face view about what a politician should be like.Originally posted by Othello_Red:For me, I just feel that CSJ is getting it wrong. His policies don't quite seem to hit the right notes with the public.
I'd prefer an opposition politician who will go into the Parliament and ask the right questions. The govt can throw up all sorts of numbers that they want about GDP, investment returns projections, policies for continued economic growth and fancy things like that, but simple questions can be overlooked. If you wateched Jack Neo's Just Follow Law, you'll see this scene where Gurmit Singh and his buddies go something like "govt always say economy is good, but where is the money? GST keep increasing, but my salary never increase leh."
It takes a brave and passionate person to actually ask simple questions like that. Rather than asking what your stand is when dealing with foreign policies, simple questions like "Mr Tan Ah Kow here has been a taxi driver for 20 years and his salary is still only barely $2000 a month after working 16 hour days almost daily. What are you doing to help people like him?" These questions make the govt sweat and are close to the hearts of Singaporeans.
Fact is, I believe you don't need eloquence nor complex forward planning leaders all the time. You need leaders who are in-tune with the ground. What's the point of charging forward if no-one follows? That's where I feel that CSJ and our current govt are getting it wrong. Still, I commend him for his bravery to stand up and sacrifice his life for his beliefs. -
Nope, I'm Australian but I've been living in Singapore for a long timeOriginally posted by freedom4ever:this is very true. my teacher used to tell us this too. btw, you not singaporean?