Ang Moh can stage protest in Singapore, Singaporeans cannot?
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Protests don't solve problems in modern society. Especially in Singapore.
Protests = Instability = Less Investors = Less people to tax = Less spending power = Less reserves = More instability = even less investors = decreasing people to tax = less $$$ to give out days before a major election -
I agree.Originally posted by fai:Protests don't solve problems in modern society. Especially in Singapore.
Protests = Instability = Less Investors = Less people to tax = Less spending power = Less reserves = More instability = even less investors = decreasing people to tax = less $$$ to give out days before a major election
But protests typically happen only if the level of discontent of the population reaches disturbing levels.
The very fact that the level of discontent can reach such levels is telling of the effectiveness of the government in dealing with issues close to the heart of the people. -
There is no such thing as politicians working for the public interest. You cannot see that anywhere in the world.Originally posted by Othello_Red:I agree.
But protests typically happen only if the level of discontent of the population reaches disturbing levels.
The very fact that the level of discontent can reach such levels is telling of the effectiveness of the government in dealing with issues close to the heart of the people. -
Reading your post, I know you don't know exactly what you are ranting about. Your mind is simple. To you protest marches means you have rights. How simple can you get.Originally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:Well you try staging a protest to stand up for your rights and we'll see what happens. Try to publish an article in a local newspaper which criticises the government. God too does not have freedom of speech? No idea what you're talking about there. Want to deliver a speech to exercise your rights? No can do, gotta get a permit and good luck trying to get a permit to deliver a speech to the public about the shortcomings of the government. The Lee family has never lost a case in the supreme court, what does that tell you?
You Singaporeans are denied even basic human rights which are taken away by the use of corporal punishment. The condition of your prison cells violate UN regulations. Many people are locked away as 'political prisoners'. Their crime? Speaking out against the government for which they were imprisoned without trial. Still think you have your rights?
What you want to see is PROTEST, you want ACTION, ROITS, and your grouse is you are not getting any of that here.
"You Singaporeans are denied even basic human rights....." this shows you don't even know what human rights is. You are speaking through feelings rather than knowledge.
BTW, that line about God, I just threw it in to show how irony it is that humans want to be able to say just about any and anything, something that God cannot do. -
Hahahah you have no idea how ironic your post is. You are so naive it's pathetic. If you have rights why don't you exercise them? Why don't you speak out against the government? Oh so what you're saying is you can't do that? That's not freedom of speech my friend.Originally posted by mancha:Reading your post, I know you don't know exactly what you are ranting about. Your mind is simple. To you protest marches means you have rights. How simple can you get.
What you want to see is PROTEST, you want ACTION, ROITS, and your grouse is you are not getting any of that here.
"You Singaporeans are denied even basic human rights....." this shows you don't even know what human rights is. You are speaking through feelings rather than knowledge.
BTW, that line about God, I just threw it in to show how irony it is that humans want to be able to say just about any and anything, something that God cannot do.
You obviously don't know what basic human rights are. The justice system here negates basic human rights it's just that your head is obviously way too far up your own ass to know that. If your knowledge is so great like you make it out to be you'd know about the UN human rights regulations but you obviously don't. So stop acting like you're so omnipotent and put aside your blind patriotism for a moment to get a good hard look at the situation for what it really is.
You say you have all these rights yet you say you can't exercise them. That's not having rights. -
That's true. It's too simplistic and idealistic a view. It's just not going to happen. Still, in holding the office, public interests must be served, else someone new will come in. Or that's how its supposed to work.Originally posted by fai:There is no such thing as politicians working for the public interest. You cannot see that anywhere in the world. -
Ever realize that when a pet kitten or a pup grow older, it resists going back to the cage when playtime is over?
Animals naturally know their rights. Eventually, they must be given the freedom to roam. -
(kramnave)
I quite don't agree. Suppose i go up to Lee Hsien Loong and berate him for compelling us to purchase an annuity that many do not believe in. Further if i go on to say that he does not respect what we think even though his salary comes from the taxes and he should step down because he does not deserve to be the PM etc will i get sued ?
But I can assure you, that no sane Singaporean, including you, would dare to try that, because you know very well that while you may not get sued, your life in SG after you berated PM Lee won't be easy-going either.
There's a lot of work behind the scenes to make sure you pay for it.
And because of that, most SGreans don't dare to speak up.
recently, at this MM Lee forum where students were supposed to field questions, no SGreans dare to ask him question. only foreigners.
a couple of SGreans started to ask questions only after MM Lee says "Are there no Singaporean who have questions?"
if MM Lee didn't say that, do u seriously think locals would dare to speak up?
last year in the PAP / opposition election, got this show where reporters ask MM Lee questions also, and this guy ask MM Lee some questions, but in the end....something happened and he quietened down. dunno if you guys still remember that, but it was in the news.
what i wanna say is: u offend SG gahmen, u die.
your words, no matter how factual, will get twisted and turned back at YOU until in the end, you're the one who makes a wrong move and unwittingly slanders them, afterwhich they'll use their trademarked bloodless killing technique on you.
(Othello Red)I look up to our late President Ong for that. He got himself into the Presidency with PAP backing, then went on to do his job. He kept the PAP on their toes, and I believe if not for his wife and his illness, he would have stood for re-election. He commented that once, the govt approved the sale of POSB to DBS without his approval, and he openly voiced his displeasure. Under the Consitution, you have to inform the President. Needless to say, everyone ended up quite unhappy and if I'm not mistaken, the President now has lesser powers. Not that it matters.
which is why i say, we're under a regime....or.....should i say....a dynasty?
Lee Dynasty (1965 - ?).
recently, some big shot at F&N corporation quit his job and there's speculation it's cos' of Lee Hsien Yang (also known as The 3rd God, after PM Lee and MM Lee).
(Herzog Zwei)Nope, Because Dr Chee tends to challenge without solving the problems and SDP just supports him. I compare WP to SDP and feel WP is somewhat better opposition party.
even so, look at the WP's ace, Low Thia Khiang.
did he made a difference? in that CPF debate, he can't do anything.
it's more impossible than trying to level Mount Everest with a toy spade.
as for CSJ, he's a total clown.
as they said, he's more about fighting for the overall idea of democracy rather than the local issues.
(jondizzle)Nope, I'm Australian but I've been living in Singapore for a long time
look at the fair meadows in Australia!
look at the happy kangaroos abouncing!
look at the swaying trees as they flirt with the wind!
look at the farmers as they work under the cheerful sun!
look at the golden grasses hey there and beyond!
look at the cottages, all beaming with freedom!
look at the fool, who gave up his Aussie visa,
look at the fool, who gave up all his glorious freedom,
look at the fool, who chose to stay in a city,
ruled for decades in authoratative oligarchy style,
right behind the mask of democracy!
men mock this fool, women laugh at him,
his antics cute, his mind naive,
what can we do, what can we say?
The Fool, poor little thing,
leaving a country of the free,
joining a country repressed!
(fai)There is no such thing as politicians working for the public interest. You cannot see that anywhere in the world.
i totally agree.
recently, regarding the myanmar issue, George Yeo told the UN that Asean must do something or we will lose all "credibility".
this is the statement that made me cringe.......people are suffering and we should help them because it is only right and morale, not to "maintain credibility in front of others" or to "save face".
i seriously declare politicians need to go back to time so that their parents can teach them morale values.
this is not only about the SG gahmen, but also other governments in the world.
i have never known of any politician who does good for the spirit of goodness.
when politician do good things, they usually have a hidden agenda behind.
(jondizzle)The Lee family has never lost a case in the supreme court, what does that tell you?
i agree - have never heard of the rulers of the current SG dynasty losing any court case whatsoever.
this is why i have never respected the judges here.
in the news, they always speak highly of the Chief Justices and how impartial they are blah blah blah....it's true: they're impartial.
however, when the court case involves their masters, which are the current rulers of the SG dynasty, do u think they'll help you or their masters?
hint: all dogs are loyal and will side with their masters.
(googoomuck)Ever realize that when a pet kitten or a pup grow older, it resists going back to the cage when playtime is over?
as i see, no empire or country in the history of mankind can last forever no matter how legendary or great at planning it's rulers are.
Animals naturally know their rights. Eventually, they must be given the freedom to roam.
look at china's dynasties. look at hitler. look at the medieval age.
look at even the dinosaurs. they roamed the world for hundreds of millions of years but in the end?
i've always foresee that SG in the far future will have some kind of revolt, but it definetly won't happen anytime now.
when it happens, i very likely will already be lying on my death-bed, half-drifting to hell / heaven already.
a breaking point will come. -
Is it not weird or perverse that if humans disagree with some issues express in a manner that shows they are against something , i.e. protest (aka agree to disagree) ?
Shouldn't humans just keep it all inside? keep mum about all issues they disapprove or want more consensus? they should NEVER complain right? Just bottle all disagreements and like this is not perverse and healthy?
Why protest? That is so evil , is it not? huh??? -
PAP need more people like you.Originally posted by reddressman:Is it not weird or perverse that if humans disagree with some issues express in a manner that shows they are against something , i.e. protest (aka agree to disagree) ?
Shouldn't humans just keep it all inside? keep mum about all issues they disapprove or want more consensus? they should NEVER complain right? Just bottle all disagreements and like this is not perverse and healthy?
Why protest? That is so evil , is it not? huh???
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hahaha i didn't choose to leave australia, i had to becoz of my dad's job.Originally posted by Nikar2:(kramnave)
as i see, no empire or country in the history of mankind can last forever no matter how legendary or great at planning it's rulers are.
look at china's dynasties. look at hitler. look at the medieval age.
look at even the dinosaurs. they roamed the world for hundreds of millions of years but in the end?
i've always foresee that SG in the far future will have some kind of revolt, but it definetly won't happen anytime now.
when it happens, i very likely will already be lying on my death-bed, half-drifting to hell / heaven already.
a breaking point will come. -
No, it is a natural instinct. We are not designed to keep it all in. Humans are social creatures, they can't bottle it all in. I mean look at history. All the oppressive governments have been overthrown at one point. It just doesn't last.Originally posted by reddressman:Is it not weird or perverse that if humans disagree with some issues express in a manner that shows they are against something , i.e. protest (aka agree to disagree) ?
Shouldn't humans just keep it all inside? keep mum about all issues they disapprove or want more consensus? they should NEVER complain right? Just bottle all disagreements and like this is not perverse and healthy?
Why protest? That is so evil , is it not? huh???
Put it this way. Voicing discontent by way of protest is just showing the depth of discontent. -
I have no issues with public protests if they do not inconvenience others or damage the economy and provided the protesters pay for the cost of organizing the event.
The location must not interfere with traffic or pedestrian movement. Loudspeakers must be banned so that they do not cause annoyance to residents and office workers. The number of protesters must be limited to what the security staff can handle and most importanly, the protesters must engage CISCO or some other approved commercial security companies to ensure orderliness and prevent it from getting out of hand. The organizers will be responsible for any damage to the environment or property caused by the protesters and an adequate deposit or bond must be lodged, returnable after the event.
Of course, the usual laws covering defamation would apply. -
LOL what's the point of having a protest that way?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:I have no issues with public protests if they do not inconvenience others or damage the economy and provided the protesters pay for the cost of organizing the event.
The location must not interfere with traffic or pedestrian movement. Loudspeakers must be banned so that they do not cause annoyance to residents and office workers. The number of protesters must be limited to what the security staff can handle and most importanly, the protesters must engage CISCO or some other approved commercial security companies to ensure orderliness and prevent it from getting out of hand. The organizers will be responsible for any damage to the environment or property caused by the protesters and an adequate deposit or bond must be lodged, returnable after the event.
Of course, the usual laws covering defamation would apply.
Protests are supposed to interfere with traffic, cause a certain degree of trouble and maybe even damage some property. That way the protest can't go ignored. -
Yah lor .. so what's the point of having a protest in the first place if we know it will inconvenience other people?Originally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:LOL what's the point of having a protest that way?
Protests are supposed to interfere with traffic, cause a certain degree of trouble and maybe even damage some property. That way the protest can't go ignored.
If the aim is to capture attention (so the protest can't go ignored), where do you draw the line?
You know ah .. our roads already so jammed liao .. you still want futher interference with traffic? -
The more inconvenienves caused, the better as long as it doesn't get too destructive or violent. That way the people in power will have to do something.Originally posted by Icemoon:Yah lor .. so what's the point of having a protest in the first place if we know it will inconvenience other people?
If the aim is to capture attention (so the protest can't go ignored), where do you draw the line?
You know ah .. our roads already so jammed liao .. you still want futher interference with traffic? -
I think the people in power won't care if your bus gets delayed, or if your car gets smashed.Originally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:The more inconvenienves caused, the better as long as it doesn't get too destructive or violent. That way the people in power will have to do something.
Also you people very funny. If the people in power do something, say arrest the troublemakers, you people will complain about stupid assembly laws?
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I Think the Gahment is so effective that they can hire majority of the Singapokreans as Civil servants or government bodied / related companies.
(66.6%) ??
This is attributable to the policies they have to the common folk who submits themselves to CPF laws , contribution to Road tax, COE, and many other Taxes.
So who else can attract investors to build IR for the next generation of Sinka-pokreans? -
Don't be hypocrites lah. Say what protest is good, but when it comes to volunteering your car to be smashed, so that collectively all the smashed cars will make it to front page news, who will do it?
Also stinkaporeans so impatient. Stuck in CTE already buay tahan liao .. you imagine when finally clear the jam but only to meet with another "human jam" .. who will say "thank you .. one up for democracy"? -
Perhaps nobody in the jam will. But those in power will go "Goddam people causing even more civil unrest with their protesting and blocking traffic and being just a general annoyance...we gotta do something about this..."Originally posted by Icemoon:Don't be hypocrites lah. Say what protest is good, but when it comes to volunteering your car to be smashed, so that collectively all the smashed cars will make it to front page news, who will do it?
Also stinkaporeans so impatient. Stuck in CTE already buay tahan liao .. you imagine when finally clear the jam but only to meet with another "human jam" .. who will say "thank you .. one up for democracy"?
Protesting has achieved so much. Think Ghandi, African-American and Aboriginal rights. -
Originally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:
Protest marches are not the only way to voice discontentment.
[b]
Perhaps nobody in the jam will. But those in power will go "Goddam people causing even more civil unrest with their protesting and blocking traffic and being just a general annoyance...we gotta do something about this..."
[b]
There was already a more subtle form of protest in last year's election, when PAP received only 66.6% of the vote. It should have served as a wake-up call or warning sign to those in power.
Unfortunately, they decided continually ignore the problem, choosing instead to put a positive spin on it. I believe there and then, they would have gotten a lot more credibility if they came out and admitted that they weren't doing some things right, and that it was time to change. Better still, they have decided to further test the limits of the people this year with this fabulous new scheme to cozen, i mean protect our money for our retirement.
Seriously, if they continue to believe that ignorance is bliss, I believe they will have to look for new jobs in the near future. -
Originally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:
So you got muscles, you must flex them, or else you don't have them.
Hahahah you have no idea how ironic your post is. You are so naive it's pathetic. If you have rights why don't you exercise them? Why don't you speak out against the government? Oh so what you're saying is you [b]can't do that? That's not freedom of speech my friend.
You obviously don't know what basic human rights are. The justice system here negates basic human rights it's just that your head is obviously way too far up your own ass to know that. If your knowledge is so great like you make it out to be you'd know about the UN human rights regulations but you obviously don't. So stop acting like you're so omnipotent and put aside your blind patriotism for a moment to get a good hard look at the situation for what it really is.
You say you have all these rights yet you say you can't exercise them. That's not having rights.[/b]
Its you who did not see drunks puking on our streets and you come to the conclusion like Singaporeans don't party or something.
Thats you and your immaturity, mate.
The right to worship, whatever God you believe in. You don't find that in Singapore?
The right to security. Singapore streets are relatively save, even at the dead of the night. You know that.
The right to movement. Have you been deprived of that?
The right to medical care. Any babies here born in a hospital toilet?
The right to proper livelyhood. Is anyone marginalised in our economy?
Blah blah blah, the rest look it up yourself
You keep harping on the lack of rights here when you are enjoying most of it.
Thats because you are blind, oh you have sight and can see, but you are blind as "there is none so blind as he will not see"
You must have met up with some deeply disgruntled Singaporean to hold such absurd view of Singapore.
I ask you to check up on human rights earlier on, because it is a vast subject by its self, and the term "rights' by it self can be discussed till the cows come home and still would not be settled.
Think where your rights begin and where another's right end.
Take the 2 cases of women in Australia giving birth to their babies in the hospital toilet. Where is their right to proper medical attention? Does the rights of the medical workers supersede the rights of the patients? The right of those in the queue sacrosanct?
But wait, you are narrow, you are only concerned about freedom of speech, or expression. Same thing applies, where your rights begin and where someone else's end.
Give it a thought.
Oh when you return to Australia, there will be times you wish things there were like in Singapore.! -
Ok in response to the first part of your post, I didn't see a single drunk person on the midnight of New Year's Eve which is something I'm not used to and I guess people here don't drink as much or aren't as wild as the people back in Aus. Which is a fair assumption.Originally posted by mancha:So you got muscles, you must flex them, or else you don't have them.
Its you who did not see drunks puking on our streets and you come to the conclusion like Singaporeans don't party or something.
Thats you and your immaturity, mate.
Oh when you return to Australia, there will be times you wish things there were like in Singapore.!
As for the last part I've lived in Australia for a year or so after having lived here and no I certainly did not wish things were like it here and was really sad when I had to return here.
And when I say basic human rights I'm talking about the UN regulations on basic human rights I'm sure there's a copy of some document on the website so it's hard to be much more specific than that. I'm not implying Singaporeans have no rights whatsoever which is what you seem to think I'm implying. I'm just saying there are certain important rights which you lack.
Oh yes and the poor are marginalised as you have no proper welfare system. The right of movement? You get withheld in the country if you try to leave before doing NS. -
Those in power will just put the troublemakers in jail. And those in power will enact more stringent laws to combat further mischief.Originally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:Perhaps nobody in the jam will. But those in power will go "Goddam people causing even more civil unrest with their protesting and blocking traffic and being just a general annoyance...we gotta do something about this..."
Protesting has achieved so much. Think Ghandi, African-American and Aboriginal rights.
I think protests won't work here, simply because we have not reached that stage .. yet. -
well said! you made the effort to list out many valid and agreeable points!Originally posted by Nikar2:..
...
.
....
................................hell / heaven already.
a breaking point will come.