malaySia On NS
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hMPpp Now malaysia Comfirm gonna have ns liao , Oops
Danger coming liao , now they have men to fight :>
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Well, it will take down some time for the whole to work. Remember when we first started, we faced a lot of problem but the main reason we gave was that the due to the small population in Singapore, we will need a strong force to defend ourselves. I wonder what reason will the Malaysia govt gives other to foster parioticism in the country. Sure headache.
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Hai forever copyingOriginally posted by silkmagic:Well, it will take down some time for the whole to work. Remember when we first started, we faced a lot of problem but the main reason we gave was that the due to the small population in Singapore, we will need a strong force to defend ourselves. I wonder what reason will the Malaysia govt gives other to foster parioticism in the country. Sure headache.
No sense of originality 
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Before any Malaysian flame you............. It's Singapore who are the original copiers.........we copied israel and taiwan on their NS policy. In fact, finland, sweden and some other countries practice NS too. Malaysia's just a little "late" copying.....Originally posted by Matlaysia:Hai forever copying No sense of originality 
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When will their NS start? Includes females too?
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Malaysian jokers. There is absolutely no compelling need for NS for them. Why copy Singapore? Singapore has NS not because it has a choice, but because its professional army is simply not sufficient in manpower. Isreal and Taiwan case is that they each face a very dire threat. Their reasons of fostering social cohesion and instilling greater responsibility in their boys really tickle me. HUH?!? just because of these reasons you force them to do NS??? Come on, these things can be better done by reviewing their education system. Like the reasons why the chinese DONT WANT to send their children to national schools.
Having a reservist army is not a neglible financial undertaking. Consider their lower defense budget, and their larger number of boys a year. Lots of money will have to be spent yearly to sustain and train their NSFs to be a viable fighting force. Its not the size of the army, but the quality of the army that matters. This is the golden lesson China learnt from the Gulf War, and the reason why they have substantially reduced their force size. What Malaysia is doing will just result in a boys camp with a little gun handling, which will in the end produce *ahem* half-f*** 'soldiers' which are 'for show'.
End result? More resources is diverted from their real fighting force, and the end result is a lower capability armed force. If they can implement it, a BIG if, I believe it won't be implemented for long. Just another case of ill planned policies characteristic of Malaysai. Might as well seat back and laugh at them for wasting their resources. -
cos they feel inferior?
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They first laughed at our stupidity in spending money to buy car park coupons and make the government rich before we actually use the coupons.
Now that they find out that their parking meters are easily pilfered by vandals and also by their own parking wardens, they have decided to copy the format of our Car Park Coupons completely.
They laughed at us for our C.P.F system, then they find out that a system like that can bail out poorly implemented Government policies and the failures of their Government Linked Companies.
So they have the E.P.F. and after using nearly all the EPF monies to rescue the half baked operations of their Government Linked Companies, they want our Singapore Government to release the CPF monies of Malaysian workers who have stopped working in Singapore.
But they never announce the fact that these Malaysian worker - who have left Singapore without taking out their CPF monies - prefer to leave the CPF account in Singapore.
For the simple reason that they will get to see the money in the CPF, and no devaluation at all - they will never get to see their monies if their CPF money is transferred back to Malaysia and into the Malaysian E.P.F.
National Service for Malaysians ?
It will be targetted mostly at the ethnic Chinese and Indian communities, as these two racial groups in MALAYsia is very much under represented in the Civil Service and also the Military.
The MALAYsian Government will feel safer to have the ethnic Chinese and Indian communities in the Civil Service, then to upset the comfortable security of having their MAF with a majority of their strength of trained military personnel being from the BUMI stock - sons FROM the Soil. -
think de chinese in malaysia going for ns will have a hard time , their army cmf all malay one instruters , even de name of de army is call Royal melay regiment
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I think the Malaysians are still not ready for NS. National Service was introduced AFTER the poeple were comfortable with each other, in Malaysia, there's no such environment and people there are still pretty much hostile against each other so you're making it worst by training already hostile ethnic groups with military training, what will stop the chinese and Indians in Malaysia from picking up arms and rebelling?
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not true... Sg was not THAT comfortable with each other in the immediate post independence period... we were pushed into it by the brits leaving us in the lurch cos they want to balance their budgetOriginally posted by Mark Lee:I think the Malaysians are still not ready for NS. National Service was introduced AFTER the poeple were comfortable with each other, in Malaysia, there's no such environment and people there are still pretty much hostile against each other so you're making it worst by training already hostile ethnic groups with military training, what will stop the chinese and Indians in Malaysia from picking up arms and rebelling? kinda lan lan rather than good timing really...
Sg that time could either leave itself naked to aggression or do something about it...
the thing is, Sg was founded (and expelled from the federation) on the priniples of a secular state that advocates equal threatment of all ethnic groups and meritocracy. its a lot easier to justify using NS as a means of nation building and defence.
In M'sia, u have the exact opposite: institutionalised discrimination. special privileges based on skin colour. NS as a means of defence is plain stupid in that context: no visible direct threats other than terrorism and that is not one u can solve with sheer numbers alone.
NS as a means of nation building in that context would only meet limited success because people still see themselves to a great extent based on colour and it is clear that they are NOT equal.
u expect NS to threat them any different? even so, it doesn't change the big picture. u threat them all equal and based on merit in NS and they face the same crap in society. if anything, it will certainly put the malay position under fire either way. will KL change its bumiputra policy after that?
it won't be without social consequences and once u unleash the national emotions of the people through a massive socialization program like NS, u can't control all of its consequences. -
Or it could be just a front for a reeducation camp for people like our brudder Harimau and Innocent Mutlasian to go for their educationOriginally posted by YourFather:Malaysian jokers. There is absolutely no compelling need for NS for them. Why copy Singapore? Singapore has NS not because it has a choice, but because its professional army is simply not sufficient in manpower. Isreal and Taiwan case is that they each face a very dire threat. Their reasons of fostering social cohesion and instilling greater responsibility in their boys really tickle me. HUH?!? just because of these reasons you force them to do NS??? Come on, these things can be better done by reviewing their education system. Like the reasons why the chinese DONT WANT to send their children to national schools.
Having a reservist army is not a neglible financial undertaking. Consider their lower defense budget, and their larger number of boys a year. Lots of money will have to be spent yearly to sustain and train their NSFs to be a viable fighting force. Its not the size of the army, but the quality of the army that matters. This is the golden lesson China learnt from the Gulf War, and the reason why they have substantially reduced their force size. What Malaysia is doing will just result in a boys camp with a little gun handling, which will in the end produce *ahem* half-f*** 'soldiers' which are 'for show'.
End result? More resources is diverted from their real fighting force, and the end result is a lower capability armed force. If they can implement it, a BIG if, I believe it won't be implemented for long. Just another case of ill planned policies characteristic of Malaysai. Might as well seat back and laugh at them for wasting their resources. -
It seems the Madhatter is trying to do a Vietnam to the SAF.
a) the moderately trained MAF NS man will do their usual stuff in daylight, while transforming to a guerilla at night; same as vietcong.
b) they are fighting for thier own homeland , if we attack; just like North and South Vietnam...
c) they can afford to sacrifice many lives ( they have abt 20M++ people vs our 4M ??). also, the Mats can produce more to replace the lost ones... see how many kids the mats have, compared to the Chinese??? This was the same tactics Ho Chi Minh had in their war with the US...
d) they are using low tech solutions( i e people power) vs our high tech approach; just like US firepower vs NVA human tactics like Dien Bien Phu etc.
SAF better study US Army assessments of their failure in Vietnam before embarking on any "adventures"..... -
oh oh..... u guys are right.......
anyway, all the facts are out but they are too straightforward, I am afraid that there are already some [b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b]VERY PATRIOTIC MALAYSIANS[/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b] in this forums which might get angry with u guys and shoot back at u guys with their craps....
why send boys to NS to be patriotic?
Dr MAMA should ask them come this forums just like the fews M'sian patriot here
They are damn patriotic, whatever their country did wrong, they insist they are right and they don't admit their country got more vices than singapore and many serious crimes plus Terrorist, shouldn't they spend more time on these????
Anyway Malaysian denied all the above I had mentioned that happens in their country, this shows that they are all [b][b][b][b][b][b]VERY PATRIOTIC[/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b] liao.... -
Aiy... don't worry about the numbers. Singapore also have Allies, Thailand to the north (not necessarily reliable though), and Vietnam. Btw, sg is damned close with vietnam. If they wanna play vietnamese tactics, they should play with the people who came up with it. With the amount of money Singapore pours into developing vietname, or the "amount that we will pour", one or two million vietnamese soldiers "aiding" singapore will be nothing.
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huh??? get real... a bit far right vietnam... and don't tell me u wanna fly 2 million viets over??? get real.Originally posted by Shotgun:Aiy... don't worry about the numbers. Singapore also have Allies, Thailand to the north (not necessarily reliable though), and Vietnam. Btw, sg is damned close with vietnam. If they wanna play vietnamese tactics, they should play with the people who came up with it. With the amount of money Singapore pours into developing vietname, or the "amount that we will pour", one or two million vietnamese soldiers "aiding" singapore will be nothing.
guerilla warfare is not impossible to win... its just troublesome. the americans lost cos they were focused on the wrong things. everyone learnt from their mistakes.
its simple actually... u try to get 100% control in the limited areas u hold then u work your way up. same tactics the brits used in the emergency.
the americans were trying to hold 100% of the area with only 80% control in all of them! that leaves u wide open and gives the initiative to the enemy.
besides, guerilla forces are not self-sufficient. once the political infrastructure has fallen (aka. nuke K.L and arrest the suits), they're on their own.
so the tactic to deal with such things should be to
(a) break them into smaller units
(b) isolate them
(c) pound them into itty bitty pieces
all it takes is political will. if the violence can be contained within the fringe areas, it is win-able. -
And to add to that Mr George Soros and friends to finish malaysia's economy while we finish it militaryOriginally posted by Shotgun:Aiy... don't worry about the numbers. Singapore also have Allies, Thailand to the north (not necessarily reliable though), and Vietnam. Btw, sg is damned close with vietnam. If they wanna play vietnamese tactics, they should play with the people who came up with it. With the amount of money Singapore pours into developing vietname, or the "amount that we will pour", one or two million vietnamese soldiers "aiding" singapore will be nothing. -
Soros didn't break the economy for charity. he made billions the last time he did it with the baht, the ringgit and much earlier, the sterling.Originally posted by Matlaysia:And to add to that Mr George Soros and friends to finish malaysia's economy while we finish it military
he didn't have quarrels with of the countries his hedge fund targeted. but he knew that these people were not being totally honest in their management of their local economies and there was money to be made on his part while teaching them a thing or too about real-world economics.
you could in a way argue that the whole structure was already rotten... all he did was kick in the door and the whole place collapsed on itself.
its just madman mat that keeps calling soros a jewish racist. everyone else knows that it was strictly business... nothing personal
so don't expect him to do any country any favours by moving in just to help. his modus operandi is simple: no profits, no go. -
Are Vietnam Sg ally meh?Originally posted by Shotgun:Aiy... don't worry about the numbers. Singapore also have Allies, Thailand to the north (not necessarily reliable though), and Vietnam. Btw, sg is damned close with vietnam. If they wanna play vietnamese tactics, they should play with the people who came up with it. With the amount of money Singapore pours into developing vietname, or the "amount that we will pour", one or two million vietnamese soldiers "aiding" singapore will be nothing.
Thais are very close to SG -
Is malaysia consider our ally cos they are one of the five powers defense arrangement with singapore UK aust and NZ.Althrough malaysia is more of an enemy then friendOriginally posted by Shotgun:Aiy... don't worry about the numbers. Singapore also have Allies, Thailand to the north (not necessarily reliable though), and Vietnam. Btw, sg is damned close with vietnam. If they wanna play vietnamese tactics, they should play with the people who came up with it. With the amount of money Singapore pours into developing vietname, or the "amount that we will pour", one or two million vietnamese soldiers "aiding" singapore will be nothing.
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Even when MALAYsia was in the FPDA, they withheld permission for our RSAF Rescue Helicopters to take a direct route through Johor, and to the South China Sea on a air-sea rescue mission.Originally posted by Mech^O^GATor:Is malaysia consider our ally cos they are one of the five powers defense arrangement with singapore UK aust and NZ.Althrough malaysia is more of an enemy then friend
A RAF Helicopter had an accident during a FPDA exercise, and there was an urgent need for an air-sea rescue helicopter to help in the search for a missing pilot.
By the time Kuala Lumpur MINDEF Ops Room finally gave the "OKAY" for our aircraft to fly into MALAYsia air space, it was already 20 hours later.
The RSAF Helicopter took the longer route that detoured the south Johor tip, and had already arrived into the theatre of operation in the South China Sea.
The hope of ever finding the pilot of the crashed helicopter was getting dimmer by each passing minute; and it took our RSAF Helicopter a longer detour time of an additional 3 hours.
They not only screwed us with their deliberate unfriendly attitude, but had also screwed UK, Australia and New Zealand Armed Forces.
At the end of it all, they screwed themselves most of all. -
Vietnam not really that far.... Can transport their troops by land an by sea. We have a lot of Land-Ship Equipment you know. By land, they go thru cambodia, and Thailand.
Vietnam is not exactly an Ally, but a friend. We help them, and they would help us. According to a buddy of mine, the vietnamese feel rather indebted to us.
A Quote from a site...
http://app.internet.gov.sg/scripts/mfa/generator/asppages/hanoi/ForeignPolicy.asp
SINGAPORE-VIETNAM RELATIONS
Singapore and Vietnam have developed excellent and wide-ranging relations, built-up up over the years through exchanges of visits at the highest level. President Tran Duc Luong visited Singapore in March 1998, and in turn, President S R Nathan became the first Head of State from Singapore to visit Vietnam when he made a State Visit in February 2001. The expansion of trade and business contacts between Singapore and Vietnam over the years has also been a significant factor in forging strong bilateral ties. As an indication of the strength of this commercial relationship, Singapore remains the largest investor in Vietnam, having made cumulative investment of US$7.26 billion by end 2001. Singapore also ranks consistently as one of Vietnam's most important trading partners. The Vietnam-Singapore Industrial Park and the Vietnam-Singapore Technical Training Centre in Binh Duong province are concrete symbols of the close cooperation between the two countries. Other than working closely together in ASEAN, Vietnam and Singapore also cooperate closely in other fora such as ASEM, APEC and FEALAC.
Singapore is also honoured to play a role in Vietnam's human resource development. Since 1992, more than 2500 Vietnamese have received training in Singapore under the Singapore Cooperation Programme in areas such as healthcare, environment, finance and trade, productivity, public administration and English language training. In February 2002, Singapore formally established the Vietnam-Singapore Training Centre in Hanoi, with a focus on capacity building for Vietnamese officials. Singapore has also been providing scholarships to Vietnamese students to pursue academic courses including, among others, the ASEAN Secondary Three Scholarships, the Singapore Scholarship (undergraduate studies) and the NUS' Master in Public Management and Master in Public Policy Programmes (post-graduate studies -
While Vietnam may value the many economic and educational support that we have given to them, it is unlikely that they will provide any military support in the event of any outbreak of war between Malaysia and Singapore.
Vietnam is a poor and war weary country, having been in various fights for almost all of their history - first against the 1000 years rule from Beijing, then against the Japanese during WW2, and against the returning French Colonial Rulers, and against USA for the reunification of North and South Vietnam (from the early 1960's till 1974), and their continued internal struggle to bring psychological unification and acceptance of the South Vietnamese - the battle is ongoing and remain uncompleted.
It will also be unlikely that the other member countries of ASEAN will come to the rescue of Singapore.
However, as members of ASEAN, they will put tremendous amount of pressure onto Malaysia to stop them from putting any agressive pressure against Singapore.
In fact, with the military success of the SAF in fighting any agressive move by the MALAYsians Government aka Militant UMNO aka Bumi (Sons FROM the Pile of Soil), the member countries of ASEAN may make strong appeals to Singapore to hold back the SAF, and stop any further military moves that may see our forces sweep into Putra Jaya - (the new town created for the MALAYsian Seat of Government) - and force the MALAYsian Government to operate from Batu Caves. -
Is Vietnam a Singapore ally? Even if that is the case, they can't be a great help. They won the vietnam war because the Americans do not how to fight in the jungle. On the top of that, the Americans are out numbered. Look at the1979 China-Vietnam war, China won. The reason is simple enough.
Besides that, I think no country in South East Asia has the ability to launch a war against another without bearing the full consequences of the UN. Look at Iraq now. In this realistic world, only that Big 5 (US, UK, China, Russian and France) can talk about wars. If any country has the audacity to launch a war today, I can guarantee one of the Big 5 or even all the Big 5 will get involved, and the country that launch the war will definitely lost, if the country that launch the war is one of the Big 5, than it will become world war again. Small or medium countries don't even stand a chance to win. Even with a combined forces of all ASEAN members, the answer is, .........not a high chance to win.
So I think everybody can seat back and no need to worry about Malaysia NS, because it is their business, they can't do anything with their army anyway. Besides that, whether the people there will support it or not is also the problem the government there facing. -
Wont' be much help? Heheh. Sorry babe, Raw numbers help. Nobody likes to know that 2million vietnamese infantry are out there in their backyard SOMEWHERE.
We are not exactly allies. But think about it this way. If Singapore goes, there goes their largest investor. And thats just the investments, not to mention the help we render them with rebuilding their economy and infrastructure.
With help from the Thais, we can move the Vietnamese friends down, to northern M'sia easily.
Currently, Vietnam has 482,000 regulars, and over 4 million in reserve. Its a lot of help.