escape from paradise

• Atobe

  17 Jun 03, 22:38

  It is not just the GST that affect the cost of land that is released for Property Developers to snatch up.
  
  The entire exercise starts with the minimum price that URA expects for the parcel of land that it is releasing for biddings by the Property Developers.
  
  Then when the piece of land is purchased and paid for by the Developer, he will have to pay URA a Development Charge for the type of building that is allowed; with additional costs being imposed if certain design criteria do not comply with the standard guidelines with regards to plot ratio; or additional fees to be paid as penalty to get waiver from the plot ratio guidelines.
  
  Then there is the Stamp Duty to be paid for the various contracts that are being formalised to legalise the entire transaction process; and also the legal fees incurred at the various stages of transactions.
  
  Finallly, there is the cost of funds that will be incurred in the entire process from the purchase of the raw piece of earth, to the building stages, and to holding period before sale, and during the sale period.
  
  The entire COST is kept artificially high, so as to support the past high costs that have been fixed.
  
  To do otherwise, will simply deflate the property prices, and put into jeopardy the entire credit worthiness of the loans that have been extended for the purchase of high price properties in the past thirty years.
  
  Any attempts to force the ridiculously high property prices downwards at this stage, can only cause a panic in the entire financial and property sector.
  
  Are we prepared to take this step ?
  
  This is the devil's trap in the greed towards an artificial dream of a Swiss Standard of Living - which was announced by the PM during his first term of office, without telling the Citizens the implication of the costs that are involved.
  
  
• Viper52

  17 Jun 03, 23:27

  Originally posted by Atobe:

  It is not just the GST that affect the cost of land that is released for Property Developers to snatch up.
  
  The entire exercise starts with the minimum price that URA expects for the parcel of land that it is releasing for biddings by the Property Developers.
  
  Then when the piece of land is purchased and paid for by the Developer, he will have to pay URA a Development Charge for the type of building that is allowed; with additional costs being imposed if certain design criteria do not comply with the standard guidelines with regards to plot ratio; or additional fees to be paid as penalty to get waiver from the plot ratio guidelines.
  
  Then there is the Stamp Duty to be paid for the various contracts that are being formalised to legalise the entire transaction process; and also the legal fees incurred at the various stages of transactions.
  
  Finallly, there is the cost of funds that will be incurred in the entire process from the purchase of the raw piece of earth, to the building stages, and to holding period before sale, and during the sale period.
  
  The entire COST is kept artificially high, so as to support the past high costs that have been fixed.
  
  To do otherwise, will simply deflate the property prices, and put into jeopardy the entire credit worthiness of the loans that have been extended for the purchase of high price properties in the past thirty years.
  
  Any attempts to force the ridiculously high property prices downwards at this stage, can only cause a panic in the entire financial and property sector.
  
  Are we prepared to take this step ?
  
  This is the devil's trap in the greed towards an artificial dream of a Swiss Standard of Living - which was announced by the PM during his first term of office, without telling the Citizens the implication of the costs that are involved.
  
  

  Good post Atobe on the quandary facing Singapore and Singaporeans at the moment. We're always told "Times are bad, we have to swallow the bitter pill" But is the government prepared to swallow this very bitter pill?
  
  Letting property prices settle from their ludicrous levels to a more realistic level determined by current market forces would be the ultimate sacred cow, but are we prepared to slaughter it?
  
  It will hurt the government's pockets a lot, but it will hurt the majority of asset-rich, cash poor Singaporeans who've all too often invested their lives into their overpriced "pigeon holes in the sky" much much more.
  
  So whats the real reason we refuse to come down from the ivory tower which is property prices? The former or the latter?
  
  We set about with a lofty aim, but never stopped to consider the consequences when we took the road towards a "Swiss standard of living". Now we're not there yet, and it already looks like we'll soon have to pay the price for trying it.
• leilan84

  18 Jun 03, 02:40

  Originally posted by Atobe:

  It is not just the GST that affect the cost of land that is released for Property Developers to snatch up.
  
  The entire exercise starts with the minimum price that URA expects for the parcel of land that it is releasing for biddings by the Property Developers.
  
  Then when the piece of land is purchased and paid for by the Developer, he will have to pay URA a Development Charge for the type of building that is allowed; with additional costs being imposed if certain design criteria do not comply with the standard guidelines with regards to plot ratio; or additional fees to be paid as penalty to get waiver from the plot ratio guidelines.
  
  Then there is the Stamp Duty to be paid for the various contracts that are being formalised to legalise the entire transaction process; and also the legal fees incurred at the various stages of transactions.
  
  Finallly, there is the cost of funds that will be incurred in the entire process from the purchase of the raw piece of earth, to the building stages, and to holding period before sale, and during the sale period.
  
  The entire COST is kept artificially high, so as to support the past high costs that have been fixed.
  
  To do otherwise, will simply deflate the property prices, and put into jeopardy the entire credit worthiness of the loans that have been extended for the purchase of high price properties in the past thirty years.
  
  Any attempts to force the ridiculously high property prices downwards at this stage, can only cause a panic in the entire financial and property sector.
  
  Are we prepared to take this step ?
  
  This is the devil's trap in the greed towards an artificial dream of a Swiss Standard of Living - which was announced by the PM during his first term of office, without telling the Citizens the implication of the costs that are involved.
  
  

  pls pardon my english, it's not very good
  
  the GST is the first step to reduce the cost of living
  lowering the land price is to reduce the rental and building of
  land in sg to attract foreign investment.
  the lowering of land cost will also mean that owning a house will
  now be cheaper. however, the current hse owner, will suffer a
  heavy loss... this step should be taken over a period of time, not with immediate effect. maybe in a course of about 5-10 years
  
  
• nismoS132

  18 Jun 03, 04:57

  the GST is not much, forget about it.
  
  and you can't just reduce land prices as and when you like, 1st of all it would cause the country to lose all the trust built up over the years. who the hell would wanna put money into a place where the govt will just say ok the land price today will be $10 as and when they like?
  
  2ndly, you don't seem to understand economics very much. property is an asset that companies use to replace cold hard cash. it is with these properties that is used as a bargaining chip to get banks to loan them money, so that should they ever fail to repay the loans, the bank would take the land, sell it, and return them the remainder.
  
  by reducing prices all of a sudden would turn the entire economy upside down. what would happen to those people who bought homes over a 1-20yrs loan period? and home owners are just the small fry, what about MNCs with loads of freehold land? what about all those buildings in the CBD? instantly reduced to a supermarket sale?
  
  in the invisible long run, it might be helpful, but the devastation brought about in the visible and all too tangible short term would cripple us beyond any hope of salvation.
• leilan84

  18 Jun 03, 16:00

  you don't drop the price of land immediately... but over a period of time.
  the land price now is ridiculous... for the same amount of money,
  you can get a bigger and better place elsewhere....
  surely, you don't want to be on load always do you?
  
  GST will be up to 20% gradually... it wouldn't make a different then?
  
• AzRaeL

  29 Jun 03, 14:30

  i lost my innoccence..i feel so violated!
  seriously, i'm a Canadian PR, and i'm taking my GF away with me.
• the Bear

  29 Jun 03, 14:41

  let's see... 17 car parks in a private condo is worth $1
  
  also, part the carpark of a church is also worth.. $1.
  
  wtf?
  
  i agree with Azrael.. i think i'll start making preparations to go somewhere else..
  
  

  Originally posted by Viper52:

  Letting property prices settle from their ludicrous levels to a more realistic level determined by current market forces would be the ultimate sacred cow, but are we prepared to slaughter it?
  
  It will hurt the government's pockets a lot, but it will hurt the majority of asset-rich, cash poor Singaporeans who've all too often invested their lives into their overpriced "pigeon holes in the sky" much much more.
  
  So whats the real reason we refuse to come down from the ivory tower which is property prices? The former or the latter?
  
  We set about with a lofty aim, but never stopped to consider the consequences when we took the road towards a "Swiss standard of living". Now we're not there yet, and it already looks like we'll soon have to pay the price for trying it.

• Viper52

  30 Jun 03, 01:53

  Originally posted by the Bear:

  let's see... 17 car parks in a private condo is worth $1
  
  also, part the carpark of a church is also worth.. $1.
  
  wtf?
  
  i agree with Azrael.. i think i'll start making preparations to go somewhere else..
  
  

  Land is worth a lot when it enriches the government's pockets. Its worth $1 when the government has to buy it back. All that talk about benefiting when the MRT runs through it, bollocks! What about
  
  - the inconvenience due to MRT works?
  - if the people forced to leave the place to stay elsewhere due to other reasons before the MRT starts operations?
  
  FWIW I'm disenchanted with the authorities here already, it has come to a point that I feel that it's interest (particularly its coffers) is in No.1 place with that of the people in a distant 2nd. Worse, it hides behind the argument that its doing what it's doing for the peoples and countrys sake and it just so happens that its coffers benefit at the same time.
  
  Join the club Azrael and the Bear, my wife and me have decided on moving to Melbourne eventually, it has its pros and cons like everywere else but I guess to us its pros are more important to us than Singapore's. Oh, and the minute my parents decide that they want to join me, I'll put an application for them faster than they can say "Australia"
  
  Sure, we'll get response calling us "traitors", "get lost" and "good riddance" etc but all I can say is those in charge of my country have quit on me (not the other way round) and declared me a 2nd class citizen and that has been a bigger "push" factor than the "pull" factors of Singapore being the country I was born, I grew up in, having most of my friends and family here, better food etc.
  
  
• Atobe

  1 Jul 03, 01:41

  
  A young Lawyer - returning to Singapore, after graduating from Cambridge with super distinctions - first envisaged this “Paradise” to be a land with its free people able to gather without fear or restriction of assembly, a land with a Classless Society, everyone regardless of race, language or religion, will be equal in sharing the benefits of a shared nation.
  
  That was an ambitious cry in the early years after World War 2, when the Colonial Masters were exposed as Human Beings with similar weaknesses as the Asian subjects; and no longer believed to be Superior Beings, and can be beaten in the game of politics.
  
  Forty years on, this “Paradise” remained as in the days of the Colonials - with the Rulers and the Ruled; the Privileged Class formed by Members of the Ruling Political Party, and the Under Privileged Ruled that belong to no Political Parties; the Ruling Management and the Working Under Class.
  
  The “Paradise” promised equality regardless of race, language or religion – yet some race is more trusted in sensitive posts then others, advancement in career is dependent on selected language skills – and discussion about religion is restricted and best left unsaid.
  
  Where is this promised “Paradise” for a Free People – able to gather WITHOUT “Fear or Restrictions” to assemble ?
  
  Can this “Paradise” be in Singapore - with its paranoid Police Force that is even afraid of dolls being able to speak, when the Think Center was denied the right to a “Freedom of Expression” by displaying a gathering of silent dolls at Speaker’s Corner; or with the Internal Security Act that was first crafted by the Colonial Rulers, and finely tuned and is used more frequently by the Singaporean Government against the supposed free Singaporean Citizens over the last 40 years, then exercised by the British Colonial Government during its over 130 years ?
  
  
• SingaporeTyrannosaur

  1 Jul 03, 01:48

  Basically this book does not tell us anything new that any smart and prehaps streetwise singaporean has already figured out.
• Stevenson101

  1 Jul 03, 11:01

  The “Paradise” promised equality regardless of race, language or religion – yet some race is more trusted in sensitive posts then others, advancement in career is dependent on selected language skills – and discussion about religion is restricted and best left unsaid.
  

  You're suggesting that racism does exist in Singapore?
  
  If you're suggesting that english is dependant on career advancement i see nothing wrong, considering the majority of the world is relying on english to communicate. Surely you can't promote someone who is poor in english over one that is good at it ?
  
  Discussions about religion has always been a sensitive issue. Most of the priests spent their lives studying the holy texts of their respective religions and you think they'd take it well when people start raising questions about the fact or fiction of it? Even in America they probably wouldn't discuss religion in front of a religious person.
  
  It's called being sensitive to one's religion, not lack of freedom.
  
  
• Atobe

  1 Jul 03, 11:57

  
  Will you believe that racial bias and prejudices do not exist in the Government Service and in the economic life of Singapore ?
  
  English is certainly the most essential language for communication in all spheres of human activities; and it allows a level playing field for all Citizens.
  
  However, it is not the English language alone that is used as a form of discrimination – be it career advancement or otherwise.
  
  The skill and mastery of language alone, should not be the pre-determining factor to judge anyone into finality; it should mere be a factor to be considered, as there maybe other skills that an individual may have.
  
  Some of the prominent pioneers in Singapore have hardly any working knowledge of the English Language, yet nothing has hindered them from being successful in the path that they have chosen.
  
  There are “late starters” in Life, and if the principle of equal opportunity is to be exercised, then one should put into practice what one has espoused as the guiding principle of the country’s statutes.
  
  While I can understand the sensitivities involved in the discussion of Religions – as had been seen in the various posts in this sgForum that touched on Religion – my statement made was only to state the obvious that it is best left unsaid (nothing political).
  
  
• Atobe

  1 Jul 03, 11:59

  Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:

  Basically this book does not tell us anything new that any smart and prehaps streetwise singaporean has already figured out.

  Are you implying that you knew about the events surrounding the supposed transfer of the properties at Holland Road ?
  
  Or are you implying that the "politics of connections" is just as pervasive in Singapore Life, as the system of "guan xi" in China ?