Question for Malaysians
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Those are the ones who wish to hog the limelight and score points. But there are others who do stuff in a more diplomatic manner.Originally posted by CX:have u considered the emotional effect of some reckless politicians or loud mouthed activist who clamour to cut the water supply to Sg every time there is a bilateral spat?
I believe that the legalistic aspect of Singapore is not wholely due to the Malaysian politicians only. For example, reclaimation, legally there is nothing wrong with your actions. But morally have you all considered the livelihood of the people living on the coastal areas? It shows a part of Singapore that refuses to compromise as well.
it is a constant irritation to us. next time u wonder why Sg is so arrogant, insensitive and legalistic, tell your politicians to look in the mirror. they are the cause of it. -
Those are the ones who wish to hog the limelight and score points. But there are others who do stuff in a more diplomatic manner.
but their voices are the loudest and received with the most applause. i frankly find it very hard to believe that indulging in rabid xenophobia is not a very good way to advance one's political career in M'sia.
wanna score points? leave us out of it. don't start something u can't possibly finish.I believe that the legalistic aspect of Singapore is not wholely due to the Malaysian politicians only. For example, reclaimation, legally there is nothing wrong with your actions. But morally have you all considered the livelihood of the people living on the coastal areas? It shows a part of Singapore that refuses to compromise as well.
of course we don't care about the fishing villages on your side of the border! they're strictly your problems.
how would u like it if we played another Philipines style fiasco and accused M'sian customs of raping a Philipina (who turned out to be M'sian... Oops
)
again, we see your concern for your people as inteference in our domestic developments.
are we to blame you for not caring about our livelihood after Maersk and Evergreen moved to PTP?
think about it: fishing in the johor straits is NOT M'sia's main industry. But our ports contributes rather significantly to our economy.
M'sia has all the land it needs to grow for the next several decades. Sg has reached its natural limits.
things we do stem from our raison d'etre. if M'sia fails to respect or appreciate that, such problems will continue for eternity. -
Wah... got new malaysian to play with liao...
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wake up.....can't you see it's the malaysians that play wif us more? Go read the papers.....Originally posted by Typhoon:Wah... got new malaysian to play with liao... 
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u mean their 6 months long boys/girls scouts camp?Originally posted by Silenthunter:wake up.....can't you see it's the malaysians that play wif us more? Go read the papers.....
or their politician's claim that we profited from their water (again...) and that we're stealing business opportunities away from them (again)?
well... SPH only re-prints and reports selective news from M'sia so i really wouldn't over-react to that.
i find it more interesting that they often articulate arguments from a victim's perspective.
i'm a social darwinist... and this is especially so in this new era of globalisation and intense competition. u're either quick, or u're DEAD!
but these people prefer to complain that others are faster than them and stealing from them... self pity gets u nowhere... -
For your info I am not new here
Just that my work commitments does not allow me to come to the web as often as I wish to.
I believe Viper52, Shotgun or even CX will remember me as the one who debated with them on the issue of IDF in Jenin.
It is a pity that most discussion nowadays degrade to flaming and namecalling on both sides.
Yes Tyhoon, if you wish to play, I don't mind a constructive discussion on any issue. But if you wish to play as in name calling, I am sorry, I do not entertain in this manner...watching a sitcom would do you better.
As for nation service on my side, I believe it is more of a social cohesion thingy rather than to be perceived as a military build up. I believe most of you guys here who have done your nation service know that it is impossible to properly train a soldier in any time less than 2 years. But whether you all wish to be on guard against such a build up is up to your government.
However, it is interesting to note that females in Singapore need not do national service. I believe, even a 6 month national service trainning them as medical personal should do them no harm. Why is it that AWARE on your side is so against it? {Sorrry, was quite busy these few months and had little time to properly update myself. please correct me if I made any errors factually} -
no surprise there... yes, your gov't and media has made it clear that the NS policy in no way serves to bolster the strength of the MAF.Originally posted by Sudaimiki:However, it is interesting to note that females in Singapore need not do national service. I believe, even a 6 month national service trainning them as medical personal should do them no harm. Why is it that AWARE on your side is so against it? {Sorrry, was quite busy these few months and had little time to properly update myself. please correct me if I made any errors factually}
i believe that it is primarily intended as a tool for nation building as no one should delude themselves that ethnic integration is not as comprehensive in M'sia as it is in Sg (and even Sg is consistently on its toes cos ethnicity is a very sensitive issue).
but NS can serve as a very powerful recruitment platform for the MAF as well lets not be blind to that as well. but it ultimately depends if the military is willing to reform itself and build itself up as a viable choice of career for its personnel.
and its expensive. defence is a black hole. no amount of money spent on it is ever enough. promoting and operating it as a choice career would not be cheap.
as for women, my opinion is, what for? Sg is short of men due to declining birth rate, but we do not need to double the pool of human resource by conscripting women. thats overkill.
as mentioned, Sg's NS performs a very different purpose. its primarily for defence.
also, i think its shallow to think that numbers are everything. its not. its a common myth in military ops. in WW2, less than 1/2 of American servicemen were front line troops. the rest of them were in the equally crucial area of providing logistical services.
of course, numbers can overwhelm, but its ultimately a question of striking a balance. having a strong front line force with little logistical support will grind even the most determined advance to a halt. -
Won't it be better that Malaysian take a good look in the mirrorOriginally posted by Typhoon:Why is it your country is hated by all the others in the region (Thailand, Phillipines and Indonesia) while ours isn't?
before judging others with hate in their minds ?
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Looking at the mirror will only make them look uglierOriginally posted by Gun:Won't it be better that Malaysian take a good look in the mirror
before judging others with hate in their minds ? -
WW2 is a logistic war. It is of no suprise that 1/2 the Americian servicemen are front line troops. The Axis powers have themselves to blame for pitting themselves against the industrial might of USA then. {Of course by fighting 2 front at the same time with Night Bombing by the Allies condemned the Germans to eventual failure.Originally posted by CX:and its expensive. defence is a black hole. no amount of money spent on it is ever enough. promoting and operating it as a choice career would not be cheap.
as for women, my opinion is, what for? Sg is short of men due to declining birth rate, but we do not need to double the pool of human resource by conscripting women. thats overkill.
as mentioned, Sg's NS performs a very different purpose. its primarily for defence.
also, i think its shallow to think that numbers are everything. its not. its a common myth in military ops. in WW2, less than 1/2 of American servicemen were front line troops. the rest of them were in the equally crucial area of providing logistical services.
A good example of this would be the Korean war where China troops wiped out the X Corps {not too sure abt this one please check} at Yalu River.Originally posted by CX:of course, numbers can overwhelm, but its ultimately a question of striking a balance. having a strong front line force with little logistical support will grind even the most determined advance to a halt. -
thats also true. the chinese could always spare more in terms of manpower than the UN forces and they required significantly less logistical support than the UN forces.Originally posted by Sudaimiki:A good example of this would be the Korean war where China troops wiped out the X Corps {not too sure abt this one please check} at Yalu River.
the UN forces often found themselves outnumbered and overwhelmed.
but that would be distorting the image. u can't fight a war like that in today's context!
china then was a closed society and fresh out of WW2... they had trained and armed veterans to spare (and china never joined the korean war... the soldiers were not PLA troops but peoples' "volunteers"
).
they could take the losses and face no domestic response. and it should be noted that they faced casualty rates far higher than the UN forces.
pray how is any country in this region able to spare that type of trained soldiers in such great numbers and armed properly in such a short time so that they'll stand a ghost of a chance in today's battlefields and actually be able to die in great numbers without domestic politics pressuring for an end to the body bags???
in modern warfare, manpower potential isn't really as pressing. what matters is the overwhelming knockout blow that can be delivered at that immediate moment.
nobody's gonna drag on and wait until the enemy conscripts all their young men, train and equip them properly and transport them where they're most needed.
israel has proved that it can be done in the 6 days' war.
and modern warfare is expensive. even if u had men to spare, what matters most is their equipment. not everybody is USA who can sustain a Pearl Harbour type disaster and still recover, win and get out of the war richer than it started out with. -
What for? To cope with a dire shortage of manpower in services such as nursing, the logistical/service arm of the SAF and other areas. Neither Sudaimiki, nor many guys in Singapore, are calling for women commandoes in the SAF or anything like that. Wouldn't conscripting Singaporean women into non-combat vocations in the army, or into the civilian sectors such as nursing serve the purpose of freeing up more men into combat vocations as well making up manpower shortfall? And if NS is so good for fostering national identity like its proponents always claim it does(very subjective IMO), why foster national identity in Singaporean men and not women?Originally posted by CX:as for women, my opinion is, what for? Sg is short of men due to declining birth rate, but we do not need to double the pool of human resource by conscripting women. thats overkill.
I've said it before and wil say it again. IMO AWARE, as an organisation fighting for equal rights for women in Singapore, has lost all credibility in my eyes when they consistently speak up against NS for women in Singapore. In fact, a while back, their webite even had articles condemning the award of points for entry requirements into university for men who have served NS. The cheek! Its when they say things like that when they prove themselves to be nothing but a group of sexist, militant, men-hating feminists whose sole agenda is to fight for special treatment (as opposed to equality) for women.
Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against equal rights for women, and I'm not a MCP whose idea for women is to stay at home to peel prawns and make babies for their men, but the bottom line is, inequality towards men is just as bad as inequality towarrds women. -
cos AWARE is a bitches bitchy bitch club...... wat else can you expect from bitches....Originally posted by Sudaimiki:For your info I am not new here
Just that my work commitments does not allow me to come to the web as often as I wish to.
I believe Viper52, Shotgun or even CX will remember me as the one who debated with them on the issue of IDF in Jenin.
It is a pity that most discussion nowadays degrade to flaming and namecalling on both sides.
Yes Tyhoon, if you wish to play, I don't mind a constructive discussion on any issue. But if you wish to play as in name calling, I am sorry, I do not entertain in this manner...watching a sitcom would do you better.
As for nation service on my side, I believe it is more of a social cohesion thingy rather than to be perceived as a military build up. I believe most of you guys here who have done your nation service know that it is impossible to properly train a soldier in any time less than 2 years. But whether you all wish to be on guard against such a build up is up to your government.
However, it is interesting to note that females in Singapore need not do national service. I believe, even a 6 month national service trainning them as medical personal should do them no harm. Why is it that AWARE on your side is so against it? {Sorrry, was quite busy these few months and had little time to properly update myself. please correct me if I made any errors factually}
bitch at your ear lor... -
From the NS for women forum:
From AWARE's website:
5.National Service
Women are not required to serve National Service, which is compulsory for men. Because they have given 2-3 years of their lives to the nation, men enjoy salary and tax benefits. Many also develop a network of friends that can be advantageous in their work life.
GovernmentÂ’s Rationale
Asian parents do not want their daughters to go through national service.
AWAREÂ’s Comment
The principle of equal treatment should apply in all areas. If young men are asked to give 2-3 years of their life to the nation, so should women. The concept of National Service should be broadened. In keeping with the principle of Total Defence, women drafted for NS – and men unsuitable for military service – can serve the nation in many other ways.
Proposal
Women and men should be called up equally for compulsory national service. They should have the choice of military or non-military service and there should be no hierarchical distinctions for either arm of NS. Measures should also be taken to eliminate sexual stereotyping and any possibility of sexual harassment while young Singaporeans serve their National Service. -
Double post
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Don't listen to that shit... I remember in a Straits Times editorial sometime last year about Women in NS in which the head of AWARE commented that unless equal oppurtunities were provided to women, they should not be burdened with NS" or something in that vein.
From the NS for women forum:
From AWARE's website:
5.National Service
Women are not required to serve National Service, which is compulsory for men. Because they have given 2-3 years of their lives to the nation, men enjoy salary and tax benefits. Many also develop a network of friends that can be advantageous in their work life.
GovernmentÂ’s Rationale
Asian parents do not want their daughters to go through national service.
AWAREÂ’s Comment
The principle of equal treatment should apply in all areas. If young men are asked to give 2-3 years of their life to the nation, so should women. The concept of National Service should be broadened. In keeping with the principle of Total Defence, women drafted for NS – and men unsuitable for military service – can serve the nation in many other ways.
Proposal
Women and men should be called up equally for compulsory national service. They should have the choice of military or non-military service and there should be no hierarchical distinctions for either arm of NS. Measures should also be taken to eliminate sexual stereotyping and any possibility of sexual harassment while young Singaporeans serve their National Service.
A bit self-contradictory, don't you agree? -
China has already admitted to being involve in the Korean war. The reason why the army is called PVA not PLA.Originally posted by CX:china never joined the korean war... the soldiers were not PLA troops but peoples' "volunteers" ).
Why did PRC send troops under the name of volunteer army?
Although the western forces in Korea were in fact commanded by US generals and ultimately the US president in a crusade to "rollback communism", they were technically a UN "police" force. To avoid officially declaring war on US, Britain, France and other UN members, China sent forces in the name of People's Volunteer Army (PVA) instead of PLA (People's Liberation Army).
Link: http://centurychina.com/history/faq1.shtml#1
What do you think? -
Oh yah, Sudaimiki...
About your country's NS. While I agree that it is intended for nation building purposes, it still poses a danger to Sg, reason being that My is providing training for your people (even women) and indoctrinating them to give their lives for Malaysia. Thus, although My is not exactly training them to be line troops, what they are doing is to create large numbers of trained, motivated guerilla fighters. Since our country relies on conscripts and reservists, a long guerilla war with My will eventually lead to heavy casualties for Sg. So I believe you can understand our concerns.
On the other hand, there may be some problems for you, too. There will be the traditional resistance to soldiering, especiallyfrom the chinese. Also, have you ever considered the possibility of NS benefiting islamic extremists by providing trained, impressionable recruits?
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Originally posted by want to know:China has already admitted to being involve in the Korean war. The reason why the army is called PVA not PLA.
Why did PRC send troops under the name of volunteer army?
Although the western forces in Korea were in fact commanded by US generals and ultimately the US president in a crusade to "rollback communism", they were technically a UN "police" force. To avoid officially declaring war on US, Britain, France and other UN members, China sent forces in the name of People's Volunteer Army (PVA) instead of PLA (People's Liberation Army).
Link: http://centurychina.com/history/faq1.shtml#1
What do you think? potayto, potahto... which part of my post did u NOT understand 
u are simply taking what i said out of context here
To avoid officially declaring war ...... China sent forces in the name of People's Volunteer Army (PVA) instead of PLA (People's Liberation Army).
so DID the Chinese State declare war against the UN police force or NOT? well, NO! the PRC was NOT officially at war and the "volunteers" in effect, had nothing to do with the state. OF COURSE WE KNOW THAT'S BULL-CRAP!
we also know that Mao was involved up to his elbows and zhou enlai didn't like the idea at all... but lan lan... and kim actually didn't want them at first... he preferred direct aid from Moscow, Stalin refused to give him a carte blanche then he got desperate
and if u ask me, i think they're fully justified. they told macarthur, they warned him through india's representative to the UN (cos china had no representation... the seat was still held by taiwan then.) they were quite overt in their intentions, but macarthur didn't listen.
he was too much of a megalomaniac and it serves him right that he got fired. u know he even wanted to nuke china
don't just poke holes. its not that people dunno. its cos we don't want to elaborate and write essays in a forum -
You will be surprise what China can do. China people are damn patriotic and are wiling to die for their country. China has an almost unlimited supply of manpower. Their army are the largest and most powerful in the world. Second to none. Technology can only go so far. Unless of course if nuclear bomb are use.Originally posted by CX:thats also true. the chinese could always spare more in terms of manpower than the UN forces and they required significantly less logistical support than the UN forces.
the UN forces often found themselves outnumbered and overwhelmed.
they could take the losses and face no domestic response. and it should be noted that they faced casualty rates far higher than the UN forces.
pray how is any country in this region able to spare that type of trained soldiers in such great numbers and armed properly in such a short time so that they'll stand a ghost of a chance in today's battlefields and actually be able to die in great numbers without domestic politics pressuring for an end to the body bags??? -
I think Singapore has the cash to spare but don't have the men to spare.Originally posted by CX:and modern warfare is expensive. even if u had men to spare -
YOU ALL REALLY KIAM GAN HAR?!
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i REFUSE to comment to idiots who quote me out of context.Originally posted by want to know:You will be surprise what China can do. China people are damn patriotic and are wiling to die for their country. China has an almost unlimited supply of manpower. Their army are the largest and most powerful in the world. Second to none. Technology can only go so far. Unless of course if nuclear bomb are use.
u wanna post, post constructively. u wanna quote, QUOTE CORRECTLY!
what's your FCUKIN' point here
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The reason why most of the CIVILIZED (I cannot stress the word enough!) world dislike and distrust Malaysia and most other Muslim nations is because of their extremism of their religion.
In regards to Malaysia, it is run and led by corrupt politicians who are Muslim and they are all as crooked as the letter "Z". Noticed how megawati got to power? she is just a puppet, just for show. to show the world that in a muslim country there is a woman in power- give me a break! why then are women treated like crap, looked down apon, shrowded and covered up and have to take commands from men? these women will stand up and defend this, justifying this one sided ,male domination, but sadly they don't know any better.
this is one issue the world has with muslim nations. people, open your eyes, look and understand. you are on the internet, the "super highway of information" find out what is really happenning out there dont be so blind and just go with the info in the local paper, it's not enough!
Secondly, there is a serious flaw in the islamic religion, which religion would allow people to kill other innocent victims for their religion??? its insane! you don't see the bhuddists, chistians, taoists strapping bombs to themselves because their god says to do so?? I grew up in singapore and love how all races and cultures live together without indifference. it only takes one individual who is brainwashed into becomming extreme and taking the words of a holy book and misconstrew it.
thats the problem! the so called Taliban weren't even educated enough to understand their own holy book to see that the message of a holy war was completely taken into the wrong and literal context making it something it shouldnt have become!
education!!! not religious education is needed!! the muslim religion is really a dictatorship over peoples freedom to be civilized human beings.!!!! -
Originally posted by Arcane77:
Err. . . .I have to disaggree with you here.Islam is generally a peaceful religion.It is those extremist who have been painting it in blood.Jihad, according to the Koran , is only used when your country is under attack.All human beings are to be respected regardless of their race or religion.Under no situation, are muslims allowed to kill their fellow human beings for no rhyme or reason.
The reason why most of the [b]CIVILIZED (I cannot stress the word enough!) world dislike and distrust Malaysia and most other Muslim nations is because of their extremism of their religion.
In regards to Malaysia, it is run and led by corrupt politicians who are Muslim and they are all as crooked as the letter "Z". Noticed how megawati got to power? she is just a puppet, just for show. to show the world that in a muslim country there is a woman in power- give me a break! why then are women treated like crap, looked down apon, shrowded and covered up and have to take commands from men? these women will stand up and defend this, justifying this one sided ,male domination, but sadly they don't know any better.
this is one issue the world has with muslim nations. people, open your eyes, look and understand. you are on the internet, the "super highway of information" find out what is really happenning out there dont be so blind and just go with the info in the local paper, it's not enough!
Secondly, there is a serious flaw in the islamic religion, which religion would allow people to kill other innocent victims for their religion??? its insane! you don't see the bhuddists, chistians, taoists strapping bombs to themselves because their god says to do so?? I grew up in singapore and love how all races and cultures live together without indifference. it only takes one individual who is brainwashed into becomming extreme and taking the words of a holy book and misconstrew it.
thats the problem! the so called Taliban weren't even educated enough to understand their own holy book to see that the message of a holy war was completely taken into the wrong and literal context making it something it shouldnt have become!
education!!! not religious education is needed!! the muslim religion is really a dictatorship over peoples freedom to be civilized human beings.!!!!
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