MM Lee keeps boasting of his success causing more offences.
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The words, humility, humble, modest and so on are missing from his dictionary.
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You make me laugh like mad. Where are the facts and figures?Originally posted by robertteh:Both the government leaders attitude and their abilities to implement economic restructuring are at issue.
Let the records and facts speak for themselves. Even Dr. Lee Wai Ling could see the shallow thinking behind the biomedical researches going on for years without targeting at the right and workable strategies to produce results.
So if leaders are good and talented they must be able to do better. There is no need whatsoever in refusing to be held accountable to challenge the people with retorts that people must prove what they said.
For example people have been told by HDB many times that the government has subsidised (much like NKF) but it has refused to this day to prove that it is subsidising public low cost housing despite the public queries with facts and figures to show HDB had merely given a discount and not a cost subsidy.
To this day both Minister Mah and HDB still refused to provide accurate information on who pay the lands and who sold the lands to SLA and where the profits go to in the first place.
MOM has given some lame figure to show job creations but how many such jobs were created for the citizens as opposed to foreigners and PRs. How does he defined unemployed? Were the long unemployed included in this definition?
The above are just one or two examples to show the people are not at fault but it is the government which refuses to work with accountability and transparency.
If the government continues to refuse to provide accurate and accountable information on job creations and unemployments and this has resulted the NUS professors giving different opinions about unemployment situation or job creation who is at fault?
For your information, Minister Mah and HDB have already provided the relevant information to the public. Not only that, independent surveys from the UK and US have proven that our public records are well kept and reliable. Especially our economic records. Also, our policies are in line with the latest research in the world. But because we don't need to prove what we said, I'll just leave it at that -
WHY IS TT DUREX STILL NOT IN JAIL ?? !!! (SCREAMING !!) -
Why is TT Durex still not in jail ? How did he happily walked through Singapore's courts and then equally easily got a high paying job elsewhere ??Originally posted by robertteh:MM Lee was speaking tonight at the International Conference on Arbitration with repeated emphasis on Singapore government's upholding principle of rule of law.
Is everyone really equal in Singapore's courts? -
Did Minister Mah publish the billions made from the land and HDB flat sales before arriving at the so-called low cost housing subsidy?Originally posted by outofcontrol225:You make me laugh like mad. Where are the facts and figures?
For your information, Minister Mah and HDB have already provided the relevant information to the public. Not only that, independent surveys from the UK and US have proven that our public records are well kept and reliable. Especially our economic records. Also, our policies are in line with the latest research in the world. But because we don't need to prove what we said, I'll just leave it at that
For example, if lands were acquired with people's tax monies say at S$3.0 billions for the period 1970 - 2007 and were sold for S$23.0 billions up to 2007, the profits would have been S$20.0 billions.
If each flat (say averaged) costs S$200,000.00 and construction costs and development costs add up to S$100,000.00 profits on each flat would be S$100,000.00. Total profits from sale of say 900,000 HDB flats would be another staggering S$90 billions.
The government in effect was taxing the citizens more than S$110 billions over the period and that is where the citizens were hurt most. Many could not pay up and have had their mortgages foreclosed.
Surely Ministers Mah could not go on saying the government has subsidised low cost housing to the extent of some S$900 millions per year as disclosed by PM Lee over the recent national day rally.
Even if we accept the S$900 millions subsidy with a pinch of salt, the fact remains that out of a profit of S$110 billions the government has merely spent S$0.9 billion x 37 years over the entire 37 years of low cost housing.
It is really a pittance considering it has only paid out S$33 billions to construction and development costs more than offset by the handsome S$110 billions profits made from land and flat sales in toto.
In the first place if government is honest and accountable and serving the people well as its paid servants will it end up being challenged and found to be lying about the subsidy.
May be the government should invite international bodies to audit such records to be more open and accountable as now claimed. -
i do not believe that our press, especially straits times, is 100% impartial, because i've never heard or read anything bad about the gahmen since the day i was borned, and i know that no country is fully flawless, and thus it is strange why nothing bad at all is mentioned about the other side of our gahmen.
i do not believe that our courts are 100% un-biased, because in the entire history, no one has ever won a court case against the SG gahmen.
i do not believe the God of Singapore can live past 100 years old. -
Chiam did, albeit out of court settlement. Our papers are not impartial though.Originally posted by Nikar2:i do not believe that our press, especially straits times, is 100% impartial, because i've never heard or read anything bad about the gahmen since the day i was borned, and i know that no country is fully flawless, and thus it is strange why nothing bad at all is mentioned about the other side of our gahmen.
i do not believe that our courts are 100% un-biased, because in the entire history, no one has ever won a court case against the SG gahmen.
i do not believe the God of Singapore can live past 100 years old. -
i do not believe that our press, especially straits times, is 100% impartial, because i've never heard or read anything bad about the gahmen since the day i was borned, and i know that no country is fully flawless, and thus it is strange why nothing bad at all is mentioned about the other side of our gahmen.
You are very wise nikar2.
i do not believe that our courts are 100% un-biased, because in the entire history, no one has ever won a court case against the SG gahmen.
i do not believe the God of Singapore can live past 100 years old.
You are not easily fooled by PAP propaganda. -
Praise me too as i'm not easily fooled by SDP'sOriginally posted by Poh Ah Pak:You are very wise nikar2.
You are not easily fooled by PAP propaganda.
and i must add Gopalan Nair's as well... -
You are very wise kramnave ... SDP is also very subjective in their comments about SG govt ... They have never once compliment the SG govtOriginally posted by kramnave:Praise me too as i'm not easily fooled by SDP's -
Originally posted by Trump_Card:You are very wise kramnave ... SDP is also very subjective in their comments about SG govt ... They have never once compliment the SG govt
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when a country is small is easy to mantain
wat if u ask minister to take charge of country bigger by 10 times of wat singapore. it take years more then wat he do for 35 years for singapore
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P4P government is like one of our radio commercials, "hear only the good stuff", censor out the criticism.Originally posted by johntoil:Are we really deprived of our political rights? We can still speak in this forum. Although, I am banned from Ypap forum. The point is we can still vote and say our piece against the government. Are we muzzled that tight? Are we banned from voting for the opposition?
Yep, I agree that they can make mistakes in their policies and we can end up paying the price. What's important is that we be given the channel to object to their proposals. I have raised issues with them.
HDB's policy to open the housing loan to the commercial banks was an example that they listened. I know the policy sucks for Singaporeans. Well, at least they think my suggestion is workable.
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he said that the Military dictators are dumb... I wonder if he still dares to step near Myanmar...
but then, even in Singapore, he dares not walk around Orchard Road without armed guards...
what kind of life is that, really
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And TS keeps attacking MM Lee like a sworn enemy since time immemorial.....
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When Sg Restructuring Shares were given 2-3 years ago, S$200 for working adults, $800 for senior citizens, poster were placed in HDB void deck saying "Up to $1000 Sg Restructuring Shares given."
How to trust a voice when it starts to speak like salesman, marketing executive, and advertising person ? And all the figures given by the ministries...Sigh -
maybe TS is our beloved CSJ in disguise?
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*sigh*Originally posted by posttoday:When Sg Restructuring Shares were given 2-3 years ago, S$200 for working adults, $800 for senior citizens, poster were placed in HDB void deck saying "Up to $1000 Sg Restructuring Shares given."
How to trust a voice when it starts to speak like salesman, marketing executive, and advertising person ? And all the figures given by the ministries...Sigh -
waiting for GE
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I am not interested in attacking MM Lee or government. I have actually acknowledged his leadership and good works in the initial years up to the 1970s. Please read my threads at this and other sites.Originally posted by :And TS keeps attacking MM Lee like a sworn enemy since time immemorial.....
I am only interested in getting the leaders to change their past anti-competitive tax-and-recover-all costs policies which are hurting our competitiveness and killing our own domestic sector of the economy.
Such policies like double charging on lands and assets or profiteering schemes of many GLCs are not producing the greatest benefits for the greatest number and are only benefiting the governing elites and the rich. They are causing high coss of living and also killing the competitiveness of our economy.
I have given quite a number of suggestions lto the feedback unit since time immemorial like the need to change narrow elite-centred meritocracy, mass participation in practical knowledge, broad-based education and greater accountability and transparency in governance.
Such change will benefit you as well if you think carefully and not be brainwashed into believing everything the leaders said. -
I see alot of clone in this threads
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No relationship to CSJ, that you could be assured. Why should citizens just accept that our oppositions politicians are just playing their part of governing Singapore too even though they are only the oppositions.Originally posted by Nikar2:maybe TS is our beloved CSJ in disguise?
Why must the government be so sensitive and kiasu that they cannot accept criticisms and must drive fears daily into the minds of citizens as if oppositions and freedoms of speech or questioning of government policies or actions will destabilize the country or cause chaos as often painted,
Citizens need to grow up and actively take part in checking and questioning wrong policies of government and not be used by the powerful government machinery into hating of CSJ or oppositions.
The government must grow up and drop its own falsehoods and hypocrisy. If government is to lose power and one day, and MM Lee or PM Lee became the opposition leader, we can be certain that the first thing MM Lee would do will be to demand the same freedom they themselves prohibited with all kinds of draconian laws.
What if oppositions become the government and start using civil defamation suits to sue for past defamatory remarks made by MM Lee or PM Lee.
Where is the end to this kind of gutter politics MM Lee has himself started.
There is a need to educate our citizens on this issue in the long-term political development. Freedoms will not necessarily create instability as often claimed by MM Lee.
Hence it is all craps for MM Lee or PM Lee to claim that freedoms will lead to chaos. He is being too narrow-minded, kiasu and immature as a leader and he himself will have to grow up on his own understanding of political development of the country.
Why must so much fear be put into the citizens' mind that oppositions or peaceful protests would lead to chaos or instability.
As a matter of fact the lack of oppositions due to his frequent oppressive actions against the oppositions has already caused lack of considerations for the people's interests like the constant raising of fees and the rising costs of living due to all kinds of direct and indirect taxes and profiteering by GLCs and government.
There is a lack of objective and accountable government resulting in NKF, Shin Corp and lately the commandeering of citizens' own retirement CPF monies to help solve the very problems created by government's wrong policies. -
what shallow vision.Originally posted by Nikar2:maybe TS is our beloved CSJ in disguise? -
Next GE campaign: Less with hypocripsy, More Stability. Simplicity, Integrity.Originally posted by robertteh:The government must grow up and drop its own falsehoods and hypocrisy. If government is to lose power and one day, and MM Lee or PM Lee became the opposition leader, we can be certain that the first thing MM Lee would do will be to demand the same freedom they themselves prohibited with all kinds of draconian laws.
As from history, all oppositions are charged with Corruption and ended in Jail. Marcos in Philippines, Thaksin in Thailand, and the General in Myammar. And recently the mayors in China/Shanghai.
Our oppositions are charged with defamations. Not so bad already, considering the ruling party more humane than others. -
In MM Lee's replies to questions raised at the recent international panel of lawyers held in Singapore it is clear that he could easily deny he or his government is curbing freedoms of speech or criticisms of government with half truths and fallacies without objective measurements apple-to-apple comparison or basis.
This kind of answering to criticisms can be endless and unconclusive and no one could ever get to the truth. It will be contentions ad nausem which no one being wiser at the end.
If this case the international reports he was trying to reply to ranked Singapore's freedom of press or accountability as 146th - among the worse fascist regimes.
Yet he simply replied to such reports by coming up with other reports ranking of Singapore as among the best or the top like regarding the rather limited aspects of rule of law relating to banking etc but refused to acknowledge other independent international reports which ranked Singapore's press freedoms at 146th which bear no relationship to banking law.
He is using fallacy as well by comparing his ministers' salaries to some benchmarking done of private sector CEOs. Many of the CEOs who were earning millions being benchmarked to are actually non-comparable entrepreneurs and investors who derived higher salaries from their own business success but no MM Lee still insisted on such fallacious comparison for his own purpose probably relying on his political power to overrule all within and without right or wrong.
This has been his comparisons of Singapore's performance in all areas as well by comparing selectively to those who support his argumentations.
He could not counter objectively the 146th ranking of Singapore in term of press freedom and all he could add it to say that Singaporeans can read anything or almost anything namely quite a number of magazines without mentioning magazines banned or curtailed by his actions.
In this way he will endlessly contend and contend by fallacious argumentations of his own without apple-to-apple comparisons or basis.