Chee going to stage one-man protest @12pm
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Originally posted by freedom4ever:
Most of us would have been through NS and we all have our grievances to share, especially when SAF is a huge and diverse, with all sorts of people inside. However this is one incredulous story, a teacher being sacked moments after he voted for the opposition.
i'm not the person that told you the teacher and reporters got sacked. but by having gone through NS, all these things i have seen enough and i won't be surprise if what Daily had said is true. Therefore, i [b]believe him. you are living in a so call "democratic" country yet you still dun know how this country works?
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That would mean that the government monitors every single vote. That would also mean that the rest of the civil servants voted for the ruling party if they had kept their job thereafter. What is the probability ?
Why would the ruling party want to do such a thing like this ? Telling the civil servants that if they do not vote for them, they get the sack. Would they be so stupid to risk their position by incurring the wrath of the whole nation ?
If it is really true, then this would have emerged a long time ago and to most of us, even in coffeeshops and in taxis, this is something new.
Why would you believe that ? -
1) Have you gone through NS?Originally posted by Rock^Star:"Having gone through NS, all these things I have seen enough...."
1) What exactly have you gone through in NS that made you see enough?
A very good friend of mine is a scholar/teacher and he voted for the opposition. Job is still sound and intact.
2) How often do we hear rumours, only to see half the time that it is untrue?
2) i said i believe him does that mean i have to prove to u why i believe him?
If you told me that god exist and i ask you to show me, are you able to?
If you are a reporter, do you dare to publish some articles that against the govt?
If you got sack somehow from doing that and try to write to the media, do you think that the article will ever get to publish out? -
what i'm trying to say here is not about the voting. it is about all the cover up and paul lampard that you see in NS. If things can be cover up here and there, what makes you think it is not the same in the govt? i do have some doubt in the teacher case but i believe that reporter been sack has a very high possibility.Originally posted by kramnave:Most of us would have been through NS and we all have our grievances to share, especially when SAF is a huge and diverse, with all sorts of people inside. However this is one incredulous story, a teacher being sacked moments after he voted for the opposition.
That would mean that the government monitors every single vote. That would also mean that the rest of the civil servants voted for the ruling party if they had kept their job thereafter. What is the probability ?
Why would the ruling party want to do such a thing like this ? Telling the civil servants that if they do not vote for them, they get the sack. Would they be so stupid to risk their position by incurring the wrath of the whole nation ?
If it is really true, then this would have emerged a long time ago and to most of us, even in coffeeshops and in taxis, this is something new.
Why would you believe that ? -
1) Yes, so what exactly have you gone through in NS that made you see enough?Originally posted by freedom4ever:1) Have you gone through NS?
2) i said i believe him does that mean i have to prove to u why i believe him?
If you told me that god exist and i ask you to show me, are you able to?
If you are a reporter, do you dare to publish some articles that against the govt?
If you got sack somehow from doing that and try to write to the media, do you think that the article will ever get to publish out?
2) Reporters who have stepped out of line and sacked on the quiet is still believable but teachers? Teachers? I am able to show you that God exists because I have experienced him myself and have friends who have given me first hand accounts about their other religions. Here, merely based on a fellow forumites words and you believe it wholeheartedly.
To believe the words of a stranger or experience it first hand, which bears more responsibility towards self? -
In Singapore's blogosphere today, there is nothing that cannot be written.
When Alfian Sa'at was sacked from his teaching position because he was gay, he made his plight known and news spread like wild fire. What more a reporter who was sacked because he did not toe the line?? -
i still didn't see god here.Originally posted by Rock^Star:1) Yes, so what exactly have you gone through in NS that made you see enough?
2) Reporters who have stepped out of line and sacked on the quiet is still believable but teachers? Teachers? I am able to show you that God exists because I have experienced him myself and have friends who have given me first hand accounts about their other religions. Here, merely based on a fellow forumites words and you believe it wholeheartedly.
To believe the words of a stranger or experience it first hand, which bears more responsibility towards self? -
I would say that the covering up and the "paul lampard" that happens are due to alot of factors. I would say that it happens in alot of major corporations as well. It is probably more obvious in your NS days as the major proportion of SAF are "Part-time". You see a diverse group of people. you have the hardworking ones and you have the seriously lazy ones. You can say the same about regulars as well. Then you have inexperienced junior officers around. Hiccups are bound to occur and no one wants to get punished and it is not easy to juggle both operational and administrative duties. The problem starts from here.Originally posted by freedom4ever:what i'm trying to say here is not about the voting. it is about all the cover up and paul lampard that you see in NS. If things can be cover up here and there, what makes you think it is not the same in the govt? i do have some doubt in the teacher case but i believe that reporter been sack has a very high possibility.
I don't know if the senior officers resort to "covering up" or not but if there is a blemish, their bonded career will stagnate. Yes, i would believe that there are cover ups in the SAF, especially when there are audits and inspections conducted . To what degree i do not know.
But this is very different from what we are discussing so far. -
Just look at religious books and testimonials the world over and you will see God. You may choose not to believe him though.Originally posted by freedom4ever:i still didn't see god here.
Yet based on the mere words of a fellow forumite and a stranger no less, you chose to believe him wholeheartedly.
1) So what exactly have you gone through in NS that made you see enough?
2) When Alfian Sa'at was sacked from his teaching position because he was gay, he made his plight known and news spread like wild fire. What more a reporter who was sacked because he did not toe the line?? -
Just look at religious books and testimonials the world over and you will see God. You may choose not to believe him though.Originally posted by freedom4ever:i still didn't see god here.
Yet based on the mere words of a fellow forumite and a stranger no less, you chose to believe him wholeheartedly.
1) So what exactly have you gone through in NS that made you see enough?
2) When Alfian Sa'at was sacked from his teaching position because he was gay, he made his plight known and news spread like wild fire. What more a reporter who was sacked because he did not toe the line?? -
1) the cover up system that i hate about.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Just look at religious books and testimonials the world over and you will see God. You may choose not to believe him though.
Yet based on the mere words of a fellow forumite and a stranger no less, you chose to believe him wholeheartedly.
1) So what exactly have you gone through in NS that made you see enough?
2) When Alfian Sa'at was sacked from his teaching position because he was gay, he made his plight known and news spread like wild fire. What more a reporter who was sacked because he did not toe the line??
2) he did not write against the govt. -
1) Cover ups in SAF are common as in every other armed forces in the world. Still, that does little to cement your argument that "reporters and teachers are sacked when they vote opposition" as more believable.Originally posted by freedom4ever:1) the cover up system that i hate about.
2) he did not write against the govt.
2) Then you obviously don't know much about Alfian Sa'at huh. Read his dissentious poems and you may figure better.
However, that is not the point at all. If any reporter had been sacked for voting the opposition, then he or she would have made it known in their blogs. And given this small fraternity of our blogosphere, such news would have made its rounds within hours.
Or do you still choose to believe in that undefendable conspiracy theory of yours? -
1) the reporter publish something that is against the govt not vote.Originally posted by Rock^Star:1) Cover ups in SAF are common as in every other armed forces in the world. Still, that does little to cement your argument that "reporters and teachers are sacked when they vote opposition" as more believable.
2) Then you obviously don't know much about Alfian Sa'at huh. Read his dissentious poems and you may figure better.
However, that is not the point at all. If any reporter had been sacked for voting the opposition, then he or she would have made it known in their blogs. And given this small fraternity of our blogosphere, such news would have made its rounds within hours.
Or do you still choose to believe in that undefendable conspiracy theory of yours?
2) not everyone read blog. you still haven answer my question that if you write something you don't like against the govt, do you think it will be publish in the papers and the news? -
Yes, not vote. If reporters write something not to PAP's liking, they would be sacked and many have been, as claimed by dailyfreegames. If such things have really happened, why has it not made the rounds in our local blogosphere?Originally posted by freedom4ever:1) the reporter publish something that is against the govt not vote.
2) not everyone read blog. you still haven answer my question that if you write something you don't like against the govt, do you think it will be publish in the papers and the news?
With regard to your question: yes, SPH would never publish anything highly contradictory to the govt's stand. -
Posting in public forums must be accompanied by a reasonable degree of responsibility.
It would be inappropriate to shoot off some rumours and pass it off as the truth.
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. "
Joesph Goebbels
Propaganda Minister, Third Reich -
you never know if the reporter are made to sign anything not to reveal why he/she was been fired.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Yes, not vote. If reporters write something not to PAP's liking, they would be sacked and many have been, as claimed by dailyfreegames. If such things have really happened, why has it not made the rounds in our local blogosphere?
With regard to your question: yes, SPH would never publish anything highly contradictory to the govt's stand.
since you know that the SPH will never publish anything highly contradictory to the govt's stand is enough. -
Originally posted by Rock^Star:
you might want to think about the god you say is true?
Posting in public forums must be accompanied by a reasonable degree of responsibility.
It would be inappropriate to shoot off some rumours and pass it off as the truth.
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. "
[b]Joesph Goebbels
Propaganda Minister, Third Reich[/b] -
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That's an assumption which is highly impossible.Originally posted by freedom4ever:you never know if the reporter are made to sign anything not to reveal why he/she was been fired.
since you know that the SPH will never publish anything highly contradictory to the govt's stand is enough. -
X 2Originally posted by Honeybunz:That's an assumption which is highly impossible.
you only need to sign something when you need a job, you simply walk away when you are sacked. Unless of course when a gun is pointed at your head and your family is under 24hrs surveillance. -
Back to Chee Soon Juan and his protest. Across this forum we see so much topic, most of which anti-pap. How many of us are actually interested in our reported deals with the Junta and wish that businesses get out of Myanmar ? Further if we are genuinely interested, how is it that the issue erm is not really much of an issue in the forums now ?
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If the domain of political news is only limited to SPH publications, then how much you must have missed out.Originally posted by freedom4ever:you never know if the reporter are made to sign anything not to reveal why he/she was been fired.
since you know that the SPH will never publish anything highly contradictory to the govt's stand is enough.
Once fired, the reporter's contractual obligations are over. Sign something? You must be jesting. -
I think I have mentioned to you before, just take a look at religious books and testimonials the world over and it will not be difficult to know the existence of a God. Whether you choose to believe in him or not is up to you.Originally posted by freedom4ever:you might want to think about the god you say is true?
If you wish to infer that a God is just a repeated lie, then just how noob can you get. Obviously, you have no idea what a bible is and you know not its origins.
You believe that:
1) teachers can be sacked due to voting for opposition
debunked but yet to see your admission of error. My scholar teacher friend is one good example on a civil servant who voted for opposition.
2) reporters can be sacked for reporting negative Gahmen news
debunked because the politcal news domain is not just limited to SPH publications. Give the local blog scene some credit where it's due.
3) using your "vast" NS experience to show that "you have seen everything" (as in your own words) about cover ups
4) Alfian Sa'at has not written anything negative towards the Gahmen
Just what do you know really. -
Singaporeans would be more concerned with bread and butter issues, really. All that junta arms deals and blood money talk is all too surreal for the average Singapore joe.Originally posted by kramnave:Back to Chee Soon Juan and his protest. Across this forum we see so much topic, most of which anti-pap. How many of us are actually interested in our reported deals with the Junta and wish that businesses get out of Myanmar ? Further if we are genuinely interested, how is it that the issue erm is not really much of an issue in the forums now ?
A pull out of investments would only heap more pressure and limelight onto the govt to withdraw more. A total of S$2 billion in investments, too much for Singapore to lose. In my opinion, that would never happen.
Furthermore, the issue of Singapore being related to drug lord Lo Hsing Han and Steven Law looks more like an allegation than truth to me. -
Agreed.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Singaporeans would be more concerned with bread and butter issues, really. All that junta arms deals and blood money talk is all too surreal for the average Singapore joe.
A pull out of investments would only heap more pressure and limelight onto the govt to withdraw more. A total of S$2 billion in investments, too much for Singapore to lose. In my opinion, that would never happen.
Furthermore, the issue of Singapore being related to drug lord Lo Hsing Han and Steven Law looks more like an allegation than truth to me.
So Singaporeans are more interested in bread and butter issues but he is not protesting against those. He chooses instead to engage mainly on allegations that can hardly be backed up.
If his intent is to fight for Singaporean rights to dissent, why can't he do so by protesting about some of our government domestic policies and suggest alternatives ? That will be killing 2 birds with 1 stone. Besides, Singaporeans would be more interested in that than whatever he has been espousing.
Perhaps he is doing this to gain more attention on Singapore. Protesting about controversial issues when there are international conventions is a sure way to gain attention. Has he been successful though ? Sure he has won awards and SDP is affiliated to a number of organisations worldwide. However nothing is being done by these organisations. Demonstrations are not held by them against us, sanctions are not imposed on us etc.
So is he wasting his time ? If he is, does he know it ? If he knows it, why doesn't he change ? -
I admire his guts and I do feel sorry for his wife and kids whenever he goes to jail.Originally posted by kramnave:Agreed.
So Singaporeans are more interested in bread and butter issues but he is not protesting against those. He chooses instead to engage mainly on allegations that can hardly be backed up.
If his intent is to fight for Singaporean rights to dissent, why can't he do so by protesting about some of our government domestic policies and suggest alternatives ? That will be killing 2 birds with 1 stone. Besides, Singaporeans would be more interested in that than whatever he has been espousing.
Perhaps he is doing this to gain more attention on Singapore. Protesting about controversial issues when there are international conventions is a sure way to gain attention. Has he been successful though ? Sure he has won awards and SDP is affiliated to a number of organisations worldwide. However nothing is being done by these organisations. Demonstrations are not held by them against us, sanctions are not imposed on us etc.
So is he wasting his time ? If he is, does he know it ? If he knows it, why doesn't he change ?
However, there's a fine line between self-righteousness and .....say stupidity?.
If he cannot gauge the sentiments of average Singaporeans who haggle daily and nightly over bread and butter issues, then I rather he remain the activist that he is.
It has been almost 15 years since he exploded onto the political scene but little support has been achieved since then. Even my dad says he's a siao lang, how many more say so.
And I ever listened to a podcast of his saying: "I will continue to speak up for all Singaporeans, as and when you want me to continue. " In my heart, I thought..... is he just pure delusional?
His cuurent strategy will only get him the same amount of votes the next election.
