I feel that Mr Lim will make it, i remember when i was still in sec skool when i was still staying at Ghim Moh, every Mon (except PH) he will be there to meet the people, not like some other district, you will only see shadows of the mp of that district.Originally posted by robertteh:People will be waiting for Mr. Lim Boon Heng or Dr. Lee Boon Yang to make splash in the private sector to prove their perceived talents as advertised by MM Lee. They have been waiting for quite a while now to see if Mr. Yeo too will turn around private companies like Aztech or FHTK to prove his talents.
no lah, just a slip of mind. let's move onOriginally posted by sunnytv:Some MPs who quit involved in embezzlement when working in private companies. I think money not enough, they still missed the fat salary from being an MP, can take unlimited without restriction.![]()
As politicians whose main job is to serve the nation, earning millions and millions of money should be secondary. A passion and love to serve the nation should be the motivating factor for politicians to become gahmen serving the public not MONEY. Understand? Time for supper, please feel free to eat your meat pao.Originally posted by Meat Pao:Sir, I see that this is your favourite topic to write.
It is also my favourite to comment as well.
Once and for all, let's settle a very basic question first.
Do you believe money attracts talented people?
Yes or No..?
Do you believe a higher paying rewards would attract more interested people, and more talent?
If you ask this question to people around you, say to conduct a simple survey, what do you think the answers would be?
If you ask this question to HR practioners, pshychologists, organizational experts, or any experts you like, what do you think their answers would be?
In real world practice, day-to-day practice, what do you think about this question yourself?
Well.....
It is fine if you suggest possible improvements, such as getting candidates with more diverse capabilities, improving the political environment, etc, all these are positive ideas. What I dont understand is...why you keep saying that a high pay is bad..???? Where is your logic..??? Have you really immersed yourself so much into deep thought that you forgotten a very simple basic logic? A very basic economic theory? I'm very sure if I dig out my economics textbook, there is an explanation about this. This is a very simple truth. There's no need to contort this truth, it doesn't hold water.
Meat Pao.
For ministers who pay themselves world class salary, we deserve nothing less than a world class standard from them. I know you are very pro PAP. Do you pay your maid million of dollars and accept substandard service from her? Most of the time pro PAP forumers don't make much sense in the messages they post.Originally posted by Meat Pao:It's all very nice and good, if we live in an ideal world. Maybe not an ideal world even, but an ideal dream.
The idea that politicians should be noble, and willing to sacrifice their own material ambitions to serve the people, yes, of course that is what it should be.
Does it happen? Are human beings like that? Are we ideal creatures?
There are such people, of course, but are their numbers great?
Why dont we stop being too romantic, and come down to earth for a while?
Look at all other countries in the world....look at the history......we humans are not so noble, not in great numbers....we need something that can work. Something that work for our imperfections.....individual incentives, money.
Maybe I ask this question.....as an example.....
Suppose a 'noble' profession, let's say, a teacher.
Noble right?
If tomorrow all teachers salaries are cut by half...and maintained like that for long term....
What do you think about the quality of teachers in Singapore's education system in 10, 20 years will be?
What do you think about young university graduates' interest in applying for a job as a teacher will be? Do you think the amount of interest will be the same like now..?
Do you think the prestige, interest, amount of job application, for a career as a teacher......will be the same like now..?
And as a consequence, do you think the average quality of teachers....will go up...or will go down instead..? And as a result the education quality in the society.....will it benefit or suffer?
Come on....
I dont understand why people keep missing this point. The point that high pay for politicians is absolutely a benefit to Singapore...! It is Singapore's secret weapon. Only in Singapore this can happen, a visionary and a 'right' approach that works. Unfortunately...this 'plus' just keeps getting attacked..! Why...?
Meat Pao.
No.....it is one thing to be dissatisfied with them....but to ask for a lower pay for them, you will end up with even lower quality, and you will have even more dissatisfaction.Originally posted by qlqq9:For ministers who pay themselves world class salary, we deserve nothing less than a world class standard from them. I know you are very pro PAP. Do you pay your maid million of dollars and accept substandard service from her? Most of the time pro PAP forumers don't make much sense in the messages they post.
or you can use Rawls principles of justice...Originally posted by Meat Pao:No.....it is one thing to be dissatisfied with them....but to ask for a lower pay for them, you will end up with even lower quality, and you will have even more dissatisfaction.
That is why I said to the Robertteh, it's good he has suggestions on how to improve the quality, like getting candidates with more diverse capabilities.....improving political climate to create more condusive environment for them the grow, etc, all these are good, but NOT by cutting salary.
Lets use the example of maid then.....
If your household pay maids 1000 per month, alot right.....? but you are dissatisfied, then next year you recruit maids with only 500 per month.......what do you think the quality will be like? You will be even more dissatisfied.
For 1000 per month u can get maids with several years of work experience, know how to cook, and can speak English. But you are dissatisfied because maybe they are lazy, always miss your schedules. So instead of training them to be more punctual, next year you recruit maids with $500, people who have no work experience, cannot cook, cannot speak English.
You will be even more dissatisfied with this lower quality.
I hope you get what I mean.
Instead of cutting the salary to $500, solution should be on punctuality training.
Dissatisfaction with the quality of ministers, politicians, it is one thing. But how can the solution be by cutting salary..? It's not logical. You will end up with worse quality.
Meat Pao.
who?Originally posted by sunnytv:Some MPs who quit involved in embezzlement when working in private companies. I think money not enough, they still missed the fat salary from being an MP, can take unlimited without restriction.![]()
Lest one forgets, MM Lee was not that great a talent when he started. He acquired certain talents from the ground up - ground zero.Originally posted by Meat Pao:Sir, I see that this is your favourite topic to write.
It is also my favourite to comment as well.
Once and for all, let's settle a very basic question first.
Do you believe money attracts talented people?
Yes or No..?
Do you believe a higher paying rewards would attract more interested people, and more talent?
If you ask this question to people around you, say to conduct a simple survey, what do you think the answers would be?
If you ask this question to HR practioners, pshychologists, organizational experts, or any experts you like, what do you think their answers would be?
In real world practice, day-to-day practice, what do you think about this question yourself?
Well.....
It is fine if you suggest possible improvements, such as getting candidates with more diverse capabilities, improving the political environment, etc, all these are positive ideas. What I dont understand is...why you keep saying that a high pay is bad..???? Where is your logic..??? Have you really immersed yourself so much into deep thought that you forgotten a very simple basic logic? A very basic economic theory? I'm very sure if I dig out my economics textbook, there is an explanation about this. This is a very simple truth. There's no need to contort this truth, it doesn't hold water.
Meat Pao.
The jinx gang is paid world class salary now but they are giving substandard performance. Meat pao, just admit it lah you are so damn pro PAP to the extent that you can turn a blind eye to their faults. So I don't see any good to discuss with you for you have such one track mind.Originally posted by Meat Pao:No.....it is one thing to be dissatisfied with them....but to ask for a lower pay for them, you will end up with even lower quality, and you will have even more dissatisfaction.
That is why I said to the Robertteh, it's good he has suggestions on how to improve the quality, like getting candidates with more diverse capabilities.....improving political climate to create more condusive environment for them the grow, etc, all these are good, but NOT by cutting salary.
Lets use the example of maid then.....
If your household pay maids 1000 per month, alot right.....? but you are dissatisfied, then next year you recruit maids with only 500 per month.......what do you think the quality will be like? You will be even more dissatisfied.
For 1000 per month u can get maids with several years of work experience, know how to cook, and can speak English. But you are dissatisfied because maybe they are lazy, always miss your schedules. So instead of training them to be more punctual, next year you recruit maids with $500, people who have no work experience, cannot cook, cannot speak English.
You will be even more dissatisfied with this lower quality.
I hope you get what I mean.
Instead of cutting the salary to 500, solution should be on punctuality training.
Dissatisfaction with the quality of ministers, politicians, it is one thing. But how can the solution be by cutting salary..? It's not logical. You will end up with worse quality.
I'm not saying these because I'm pro-PAP or anti-PAP. I am pro-logic. We must think about whats good for society.
Meat Pao.
When that day comes, Kim Jong Il will be next in line for the Nobel Peace Prize.Originally posted by robertteh:According to MM Lee his ministers were talents and million-dollar salaries have to be paid to them to retain such talents.
Based on such assumptions, people have been watching and waiting for years for him to prove that his ministers who have left the governmnet service and re-employed by the private sector have gone on to make waves in the private sector with making of the same million-dollar salaries justified by the making of great profits for such companies.
Ex-PM Goh Chok Tong himself was confident to predict that his ex-minister like Dr. Wong would make it big in the private sector. So today we are waiting to see if ex-government ministers like Dr. Wong, Dr. Tan, Mr. Lim, Mr. Yong etc had gone on to make million dollar salaries and successfully manage private sector companies after they left the service or were there merely special posts reserved for them in the GLCs to prove their talents were still wanted.
People will be waiting for Mr. Lim Boon Heng or Dr. Lee Boon Yang to make splash in the private sector to prove their perceived talents as advertised by MM Lee. They have been waiting for quite a while now to see if Mr. Yeo too will turn around private companies like Aztech or FHTK to prove his talents.