What's in 377A?
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Hi,
I noticed several discussions on Section 377A of the Penal Code but I have not seen the actual extract anywhere (unless I missed it). Here it goes.Unnatural offences.
Personally, I think the principle of enacting the law is understood as protecting health and hygiene but the sentence, I must say, is pretty harsh.
377. Whoever voluntarily has carnal intercourse against the order of nature with any man, woman or animals, shall be punished with imprisonment for life, or with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 10 years, and shall also be liable to fine.
Explanation.
Penetration is sufficient to constitute the carnal intercourse necessary to the offence described in this section.
The other area that makes it hard to take a stand is whether the sexual preference of gays are inborn or "bred". It is ironically the same debate as whether intellect is nature or nurture. I think no one really has the answer.
Regards -
377A. Any male person who, in public or private, commits, or abets the commission of, or procures or attempts to procure the commission by any male person of, any act of gross indecency with another male person, shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 2 years.
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I want to complain.
377A is letting lesbians off too lightly? -
I was thinking that too but apparently whomever that drafted that law had that "gays = AIDS" thinking.
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A380 can have oral and canal sex is repealed but 377A targets the gay and lesbian, that is not fare
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ORal sex and ANal sex... I am not gonna be so tactless as to say i dun like these activities lah.... up.but.then this also does not mean I do them. I only do windows (whatever that means).
now, my only question is :
Is REPEALING, in any nano way, have anything related to the act of PROTESTing?
any takers on this question folks? -
The degree of severity on this proposed comparison differs...i know....
But just humour me....simplify.
Law : Left handed people are hereby ordered to write with their right hand from here on end. Those who fail to do so will be jailed for a maximum penalty of two years.
Why? Research conducted in the 1920's shows that left handers are more prone to influenza and the majority are opposed to the common flu, citing it as inconvenient. -
They are "protesting" the law and through protesting they are hoping for a "repeal" of said law.Originally posted by reddressman:ORal sex and ANal sex... I am not gonna be so tactless as to say i dun like these activities lah.... up.but.then this also does not mean I do them. I only do windows (whatever that means).
now, my only question is :
Is REPEALING, in any nano way, have anything related to the act of PROTESTing?
any takers on this question folks? -
Was it true that in singapore until lately there was a law that can imprison a person for LIFE for having ORAL, not even ANAL, SEX with a CONSENTING ADULT even if DONE IN PRIVATE?Originally posted by nonameguy:I was thinking that too but apparently whomever that drafted that law had that "gays = AIDS" thinking.
Correcto me if I wrong o. -
849 is under oral and anal sex, but they already repealed so you ppl are there can practice oral and anal sex peacefully, police wont catch you, except 377A, where it is an offence to have sex, man with man, girl with girl, so this group want to protestOriginally posted by reddressman:Was it true that in singapore until lately there was a law that can imprison a person for LIFE for having ORAL, not even ANAL, SEX with a CONSENTING ADULT even if DONE IN PRIVATE?
Correcto me if I wrong o. -
specifically, it refers to male individuals.Originally posted by t_a_s:849 is under oral and anal sex, but they already repealed so you ppl are there can practice oral and anal sex peacefully, police wont catch you, except 377A, where it is an offence to have sex, man with man, girl with girl, so this group want to protest -
Government wont be pressure by this group to repeal 377A, I think there are pros and cons.
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NMP Siew was very persuasive in his argument to argue repealing 377A in the parliament.One of the reasons is the govt's argument is rather weak.PM doesn't say homo is wrong and he suggests homo is due to gene.The govt put the responsiblity of not repealing the law to the majority of the ppl who are conservative.So Mr Siew argued that it was the tyrany of the majority.So the majority of the ppl who oppose homo become tyrants in the eyes of gays!!!
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This law came into being long before AIDS crossed the simian barrier into humans.Originally posted by nonameguy:I was thinking that too but apparently whomever that drafted that law had that "gays = AIDS" thinking. -
I only know that when a non-homo man walk into a toilet he is protected by 377A, if any homo man wants to poke him he need to think twice. Hence without 377A the poor non homo man is not protected.
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I am an average 15 year old student. People would probably think that this has got nothing to do with a teenager such as myself. But I cannot help it but voice my comments as a singaporean when I saw what views others had on homosexuals.
Even though I believe in libertarianism, I am flabbergasted by some negative and insensitive comments made by my fellow singaporeans. I find them all very slanderous and untrue towards the minority.
What are laws exactly? They are rules created by mankind to ensure that justice,freedom and equality are uphold within a society. Section 377A itself creates a paradox and contradicts the meaning of the word law and the word equality. Why is being different from the majority wrong? Would you discrimate a race or religion just because they are different?
We singaporeans are able to accomplish what most country are not able to in the context of living harmoniously with different races, under the identity of singaporeans. Since we are able to overcome such vast differences and accept each other, why cant we do the same now? Women were used to be regarded as inferior when compared to men. But such obsolete thinking belong to the decadent past and has no place in a society such as ours.
If we stand aside and view this entire situation without prejudice, lets question ourselves why exactly do you reject them? Is it because of their sexual orientation? Is it because we are too selfish to accept them as one of us and its easier to just neglect them?
I think its an insult to categorize homosexuality as a crime labeled under the term "sodomy". We are able question our integrity before we commit a crime and all. What of 377A? Does being homosexual deny you the rights of love? Even in private? I thought this entire situation as absurd and preposterous.
Lastly, who are we to even label them as abnormal? They are more like victims of our conservative society. Fault lies in their sexual orientation in which they have absolutely no control of. Is this really what a human being should think of a fellow human being? Such insensitive thinking belong to the past and singaporeans should learn to start accepting diversity insteading discriminating it. Eventually, we know that sooner or later, homosexual will eventually become part of this world. Why? Because it is part of our human nature to love and be loved even if you are different. So why not try to make an effort and learn to accept them as part of us instead of spreading animosity? Will we really view them like how it is if we knew them way before we know of their sexual orientation?
After all this I have said, I would like to make my stand by expressing the fact that I agree fully with abolishing a law of the past. This will ensure fairness in lieu of a society based on justice and equality. The least our government should do is to grant them the most basic rights to them by abolishing the law so as to allow them the freedom equivalent to all mankind and not treat them as rejects of our society.
Since our PM as already mentioned that this law is sort of like a dummy, we already know that sooner or later it will be gone. So why keep it there in false pretence and why not just abolish it once and for all? -
Well ask your parents and grandparents what they think. Go outside PAP kindergartens and ask the aunties waiting outside for their kids what they think. Go outside churches, temples, mosque, synagogue and ask them what they think. That is society, give it time to evolve.Originally posted by Fairness:I am an average 15 year old student. People would probably think that this has got nothing to do with a teenager such as myself. But I cannot help it but voice my comments as a singaporean when I saw what views others had on homosexuals.
Even though I believe in libertarianism, I am flabbergasted by some negative and insensitive comments made by my fellow singaporeans. I find them all very slanderous and untrue towards the minority.
What are laws exactly? They are rules created by mankind to ensure that justice,freedom and equality are uphold within a society. Section 377A itself creates a paradox and contradicts the meaning of the word law and the word equality. Why is being different from the majority wrong? Would you discrimate a race or religion just because they are different?
We singaporeans are able to accomplish what most country are not able to in the context of living harmoniously with different races, under the identity of singaporeans. Since we are able to overcome such vast differences and accept each other, why cant we do the same now? Women were used to be regarded as inferior when compared to men. But such obsolete thinking belong to the decadent past and has no place in a society such as ours.
If we stand aside and view this entire situation without prejudice, lets question ourselves why exactly do you reject them? Is it because of their sexual orientation? Is it because we are too selfish to accept them as one of us and its easier to just neglect them?
I think its an insult to categorize homosexuality as a crime labeled under the term "sodomy". We are able question our integrity before we commit a crime and all. What of 377A? Does being homosexual deny you the rights of love? Even in private? I thought this entire situation as absurd and preposterous.
Lastly, who are we to even label them as abnormal? They are more like victims of our conservative society. Fault lies in their sexual orientation in which they have absolutely no control of. Is this really what a human being should think of a fellow human being? Such insensitive thinking belong to the past and singaporeans should learn to start accepting diversity insteading discriminating it. Eventually, we know that sooner or later, homosexual will eventually become part of this world. Why? Because it is part of our human nature to love and be loved even if you are different. So why not try to make an effort and learn to accept them as part of us instead of spreading animosity? Will we really view them like how it is if we knew them way before we know of their sexual orientation?
After all this I have said, I would like to make my stand by expressing the fact that I agree fully with abolishing a law of the past. This will ensure fairness in lieu of a society based on justice and equality. The least our government should do is to grant them the most basic rights to them by abolishing the law so as to allow them the freedom equivalent to all mankind and not treat them as rejects of our society.
Since our PM as already mentioned that this law is sort of like a dummy, we already know that sooner or later it will be gone. So why keep it there in false pretence and why not just abolish it once and for all? -
These people whom you mentioned are older adults who were taught traditionally moral values whom unlike us, has a wider and different view compared to them. I accepted that this society needs time and its changing rapidly.
But what I hate to see is people who condemn and crucify other just because of their sexual orientation. I hope to convince these people otherwise. -
Yes.... it will for you, when you are older and your Gen to decide to keep or remove this law.Originally posted by Fairness:These people whom you mentioned are older adults who were taught traditionally moral values whom unlike us, has a wider and different view compared to them. I accepted that this society needs time and its changing rapidly.
But what I hate to see is people who condemn and crucify other just because of their sexual orientation. I hope to convince these people otherwise.
But for now.... most 'older adults', aka "those in charge"...... wants this part of the Law kept. So, when your Gen is in charge of the S'pore 10-15 yrs from now.... you could then change this law. Goodluck. -
Generation is irrelevant here. Why should it be retain as part of the Penal Code? By saying thus, I am speaking for the minority in YOUR GENERATION too. Shouldnt you learn to accept and respect others? Isnt this what you what is taught to you and me? We are already treating them as rejects of society. I admit that by abolishing that law will have its reprecussions.
Therefore, the main aim should be to help the public understand and respect these people more and allow them the right and freedom that is due to them. Even though I may not be a homosexual, yet I wish to argue for their rights cause I hate to stand by and merely observe a voracious violation of rights. Why cant they be accepted into our society? Like I mentioned, are we being too selfish or is there another moral issue that I am not aware of? -
These so called 'rights' and 'equality' are gonna be its own undoing in the future.
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I guess thats the reprecussions...But if singaporean could learn to "live and let live" and accept the fact that they are around us, It will be like how we live together with so many races. Compromise and a little graciousness will be beneficial for our society. Why do people have weird views of homosexual?? Why do people view homosexual in a very negative light, then let me remind them that they are around you even if you are unaware. They are just ordinary people whose orientation is being shun by society. We should sympathise rather than criticise. Is it so selfish to accept others into our society? Should we neglect them and shun them? I thought this issue to be similar as those of the past, such as religion,races,freedom and all. I think just because it involves a person sexual life therefore this topic is rarely broach. If it is not for this, I believe it might have been resolved decades ago...I think.
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its defnitely not to protect health and hygiene. which part of it is hygiene or health anywayOriginally posted by Melvin Tan:Hi,
I noticed several discussions on Section 377A of the Penal Code but I have not seen the actual extract anywhere (unless I missed it). Here it goes.
Personally, I think the principle of enacting the law is understood as protecting health and hygiene but the sentence, I must say, is pretty harsh.
The other area that makes it hard to take a stand is whether the sexual preference of gays are inborn or "bred". It is ironically the same debate as whether intellect is nature or nurture. I think no one really has the answer.
Regards
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Generation is everything.....Originally posted by Fairness:Generation is irrelevant here. Why should it be retain as part of the Penal Code? By saying thus, I am speaking for the minority in YOUR GENERATION too. Shouldnt you learn to accept and respect others? Isnt this what you what is taught to you and me? We are already treating them as rejects of society. I admit that by abolishing that law will have its reprecussions.
Therefore, the main aim should be to help the public understand and respect these people more and allow them the right and freedom that is due to them. Even though I may not be a homosexual, yet I wish to argue for their rights cause I hate to stand by and merely observe a voracious violation of rights. Why cant they be accepted into our society? Like I mentioned, are we being too selfish or is there another moral issue that I am not aware of?
My generation has more tolerate for gays/lesbian. While my parent's generation have less. And my grandparent would must properly just want to in prison them on some deserted island.
There was a time when being holding a girl's hand while walking in public is consider sinful and morally wrong, yet times change and idea and views change.
So it is the same here..... when it is your Generation that is leading S'pore, your generation could then remove this law.
For the record..... I'm not anti or pro gay/lesbian. But I'm glad that Section 377A is kept. Hate me if you want, condamn me if you want...... I don't care.
