What's in 377A?
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On this issue,the govt want to please its 2 bosses -- the conservative majority and the gey minority.Of course,to please the majority is more important than to please the minority.Has the govt abondoned its leadership?
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Yes, those geys who make verbal insults are in the minority.I was just referring to SOME geys of such kind.Originally posted by Clandestine:You may remove the qualities that you state in your signature....you possess none of them.
This is an evidence that some geys lose the debate and resort to such kind of ugly tactics.Is this kind of ppl able to engage in meaningful debates?
Do not make the mistake of generalising when insulting
Don't insult in areas where your ignorance supercedes your intellect.
I'm citing "cause & effect" as my reason behind this particular post-reply
There are many more ppl who signed to keep the rule than those who want to repeal the rule.Yet the verbal abuse the NMP recieved is a more serious one. I got insults from geys in this forum in the past too. -
Ask a lawyer...
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The gay community is estimated at 5% of the population.
Many people condone homosexuality. I believe this to be a fact. Combine them with the heterosexuals who defend gay rights, we have a majority who either stands in the middle or are in support of gay rights.
And if we add the above number to the gay community, we have an overwhelming majority of people that do not discriminate against the homosexuals.
So, those who consider themselves to be conservative and who publicly discriminate against homosexuals actually belongs to a minority group.
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Given sg is welcoming new citizens, I wonder would it be also welcoming more Gays?Originally posted by googoomuck:The gay community is estimated at 5% of the population.
Many people condone homosexuality. I believe this to be a fact. Combine them with the heterosexuals who defend gay rights, we have a majority who either stands in the middle or are in support of gay rights.
And if we add the above number to the gay community, we have an overwhelming majority of people that do not discriminate against the homosexuals.
So, those who consider themselves to be conservative and who publicly discriminate against homosexuals actually belongs to a minority group.
Of course, having said so, I am not against gays nor am I supporting gays. Just a logical question. -
Its very deceiving... this "conservative majority" thingy, who are they? Look a bit deeper and it is clear they are basically a very vocal religious minority.. a minority of the Christians (not all). No less than the PM mentioned that the mails he received were all the standard "model answer" type, that it was a well organised pressure tactic by poeple behind the scenes and playing the media.
The issue is not just about 377A. Its much bigger, the issue is really what right does the churches and their self appointed leaders have to impose their religious ideas on others via singapore's laws? See... its not the gays alone, all of us - even moderate christians - should be worried, our rights to live our lives without church interference is being eroded slowly. Seperation of church and state is being challenged.. like what is happening in the US.
We dont hear the Muslims asking to ban pork, or the Hindus asking to ban beef, together they outnumber the Christians, surely they deserve their "conservative majority" rights too?
Hold on... the "conservative majority" also thinks that anyone who doesnt accept their particular religion is damned to hell... should we also have a new law to address that too? What about other religions who will also want their ideas to be enshrined in law? Its a slippery slope.
Keep 377 or lose it, but keep the religious loonies out of it, they have no business poking their noses into issues of public law. -
Originally posted by PRP:
I wonder which forums have you been visiting to come to such a conclusion?
There have been debates on homo in this forums and other forums.[b]In my opinion,the geys lose the debates.It is not because they are in the minority but because they can't put a convincing case to support their stand.I believe all their arguments are soundly refuted.Of course,the will carry on for reasons they know themselves.
The NMP who spoke strongly against repealing the law recieved verbal abuses.This is an evidence that some geys lose the debate and resort to such kind of ugly tactics.Is this kind of ppl able to engage in meaningful debates?[/b]
The NMP who spoke for repealing S377A also received strong verbal abuses. This is clear evidence that some of the conservative people, who afraid of the law being repealed, are resorting to dirty tactics to get the message across. Are such people qualified to engage in objective debates? -
I think its logical that countries with homophobic laws do not attract gay people.Originally posted by reddressman:Given sg is welcoming new citizens, I wonder would it be also welcoming more Gays?
Of course, having said so, I am not against gays nor am I supporting gays. Just a logical question.
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Originally posted by PRP:
Geeee.....I wonder why.....
Yes, those geys who make verbal insults are in the minority.I was just referring to SOME geys of such kind.
There are many more ppl who signed to keep the rule than those who want to repeal the rule.Yet the verbal abuse the NMP recieved is a more serious one. [b]I got insults from geys in this forum in the past too.[/b] -
but there are many who cope well behind closets and as the immigration is not difficult for those with some basic skills, many can still come in and settle in here for the sake of finding work.Originally posted by shade343:I think its logical that countries with homophobic laws do not attract gay people.
The homophobisity is not an issue. -
PM said there are GOOD REASONS for the conservative majority want to keep the rule.He didn't also say there are good reason for geys wanting to repeal the rule.Originally posted by playtime:Its very deceiving... this "conservative majority" thingy, who are they? Look a bit deeper and it is clear they are basically a very vocal religious minority.. a minority of the Christians (not all). No less than the PM mentioned that the mails he received were all the standard "model answer" type, that it was a well organised pressure tactic by poeple behind the scenes and playing the media.
The issue is not just about 377A. Its much bigger, the issue is really what right does the churches and their self appointed leaders have to impose their religious ideas on others via singapore's laws? See... its not the gays alone, all of us - even moderate christians - should be worried, our rights to live our lives without church interference is being eroded slowly. Seperation of church and state is being challenged.. like what is happening in the US.
We dont hear the Muslims asking to ban pork, or the Hindus asking to ban beef, together they outnumber the Christians, surely they deserve their "conservative majority" rights too?
Hold on... the "conservative majority" also thinks that anyone who doesnt accept their particular religion is damned to hell... should we also have a new law to address that too? What about other religions who will also want their ideas to be enshrined in law? Its a slippery slope.
Keep 377 or lose it, but keep the religious loonies out of it, they have no business poking their noses into issues of public law. -
Originally posted by PRP:
This PM is useless, why go and abolish one and retain one. Just maintain status quo will do. To be fair, oral or anal is an offence, what is he trying to prove? Prove that Singapore is more open now under his leadership? He is no better than GCT, all the same kind.
[b]PM said there are GOOD REASONS for the conservative majority want to keep the rule.He didn't also say there are good reason for geys wanting to repeal the rule.[/b] -
How the immigration dept know a person is gay. It i s not stated in the application form. So it is no issue whether welcoming gay immigrantOriginally posted by reddressman:Given sg is welcoming new citizens, I wonder would it be also welcoming more Gays?
Of course, having said so, I am not against gays nor am I supporting gays. Just a logical question. -
The immigration dept doesn;t has to know if a person is gay or not.. if the country is welcoming gays .. then many gays professionals will come and join the country workforce .. if it doesn;t, these professionals will not come ..Originally posted by t_a_s:How the immigration dept know a person is gay. It i s not stated in the application form. So it is no issue whether welcoming gay immigrant -
The police broke into a house after a tip-off and witnessed two men having sex.
The police did not find any drugs. It was false information. The police was taken for a ride and was furious.
Will the sodmites be arrested? In such a scenario, the police was not proactive in enforcing 377A but the two sodomites were clearly breaking a law.
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NUS don warns of 377A fallout
By K. C. Vijayan, Law Correspondent
IF THE police, on a tip-off, raid a flat for suspected drug offenders and discover no drugs but gay sex instead, would they prosecute?
NUS law don Michael Hor says this scenario could arise from the government's stand that it would not be proactive in enforcing S377A.
'Does the non-enforcement policy cover this, for it might be argued that the police were not 'pro-active'?' he wrote in a new book of essays launched on Tuesday.
He cites a similar example in Texas, the United States, where the US Supreme Court had struck down a sodomy statute.
The book, titled ' Lives in the Law ', honours three luminaries in Singapore's legal academia - Mr Peter Ellinger, Ms Koh Kheng Lian and Mrs Tan Sook Yee -who recently retired from full-time appointments at the National University of Singapore's Law Faculty.
Jointly published by Academy Publishing and the NUS, the trio are described as 'Singapore's foremost experts in their specialised fields of study and teaching,'' by Chief Justice Chan Sek Keong in his foreword to the book.
In his essay on the recent changes to the Penal Code, Professor Hor further argues there is also no indication that the policy of not prosecuting under the 377A will not change overnight and without prior notice.
After heated debate in and out of Parliament over changes to the Penal Code last week, Parliament retained 377A which outlaws homosexuality.
The government also indicated then it will not proactively enforce the section.
But Professor Hor notes that it is 'impossible to tell' if the courts are willing to hold the government from prosecuting against this declared policy.
Separately, another NUS law don has called for the courts to review aspects of entrapment in an essay on the issue of consent as interpreted under the Penal Code.
Professor Stanley Yeo plumbed for a practical approach to the issue of consent in cases involving entrapment, citing Professor Koh Kheng Lian, one of the three honorees of the book.
Prof Koh had said the law should be guided by 'what is fair or unfair conduct on the part of the entrapper in his efforts to entrap the defendant.'
Prof Yeo said it would be unfair to prosecute a homosexual, for example, if he was enticed by a police officer posing as a gay, since it was the latter who freely gave his consent to the former's advances.
'Instead of imposing a blanket rule that consent is irrelevant whenever it is secured by entrapment, fairness to the accused requires the courts' to study the facts of a particular case to see if consent had been freely given, he said. -
In fact,there many other inmoral & wrong acts in our society.But we don't talk about them.Why do we talk about homo?Because the geys bring out the topic and say it is right or "no right and wrong."So there are debates on the issue.
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You are funny ..Originally posted by PRP:In fact,there many other inmoral & wrong acts in our society.But we don't talk about them.Why do we talk about homo?Because the geys bring out the topic and say it is right or "no right and wrong."So there are debates on the issue. -
PM, MM & SM said geys were born.Surely the geys are happy to hear that.But has the govt changed its policy towards homo?No,what does it mean?
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People have gotten tired of this thread and moved on.Originally posted by PRP:PM, MM & SM said geys were born.Surely the geys are happy to hear that.But has the govt changed its policy towards homo?No,what does it mean?
The last post prior to yours dates Nov 02.
6 days after blissfull silence, you post a comment.
Even though everyone else has decided to stop commenting, do you?
No.
what does THIS mean?
My theory....this is a good platform for you to publicly battle your very own inner demons.
Jia you!