Sylvia Lim fights 4 amendments to Laws on Peaceful Assembly
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Law on unlawful assembly
This refers to clauses 29 and 30 of the Bill. By clause 29 of the Bill, we are removing the heading “Offences Against Public Tranquility” and replacing it with “Offences relating to Unlawful Assembly”. By Clause 30, we will be deleting “mischief or trespass or other offence” and replacing it with “to commit any offence”.
S 141 has been amended to bring it in line with a recent Court of Appeal case: PP v Tan Meng Khin [1995] 2 SLR 505. Now, an assembly will be unlawful if people intend to commit an offence punishable with imprisonment of 6 mths or more, even if it is peaceful and does not disturb public tranquility. Under our law, a person who organizes a procession or assembly after the police rejection of a permit can be punished with max 6 months jail under the Miscellaneous Offences Act. Hence 5 or more people who gather to do so will become members of an unlawful assembly.
The decision in Tan Meng KhinÂ’s case overturned another Court of Appeal decision PP v Fo Son Hing one year before that. In the earlier case, the Court of Appeal considered the words of S 141 and determined that it was aimed at gatherings which threatened public tranquility or a breach of the peace, and hence peaceful gatherings would not be punished as unlawful assemblies. In the later case of Tan Meng Khin, the Court of Appeal changed its mind and read S 141 to cover gatherings to commit any offence even if there is no threat to public tranquility.
Connected with this, offences connected to unlawful assembly show drastic increases in maximum jail terms. Being a member of such an assembly will see stakes rise from a max of 6 months jail to 2 years jail, a 4X increase. Joining an unlawful assembly knowing it has been commanded to disperse, will go up from 2 years to 5 years.
Sir, we should bear in mind that there are already many laws in place which can punish people who attempt or collaborate with others to commit any offence. The prosecution has enough to choose from to charge groups of people who collaborate to commit crime e.g. abetment, conspiracy, attempt.
Article 14(1) of the Constitution supposedly enshrines the right of citizens to assemble peaceably and without arms. Although Art 14(2) allows Parliament to set limits to this freedom, it is stated that it should be for the security of Singapore and public order, and no more than that.
Sir, let us distinguish between gatherings which are violent such as rioting, and those which are peaceful.
The constant refrain of fearing law and order problems makes a mockery of licensing law – why have a law saying a permit is needed, when it is seldom granted? Minister for Law mentioned on Fri that Singapore needed controls as we were a densely populated country. But so is Hongkong.
As our society continues to evolve, the time is surely ripe for us to allow peaceful outdoor protests as a form of expression. By all means, we can have rules about how, where and when such processions may be held, but wider law reform is needed. S 141 should be restricted to offences which threaten the public peace, and other laws such as the Miscellaneous Offences Act which require permits for peaceful assemblies should be modified. -
It is obvious that the MIW Government is afraid that Singaporeans become accustomed to voicing their grievances in expressive ways that will result in a few Singaporeans succeeding with their simple logic to influence the larger group around them.
As much as the MIW Government will use the 'group instinct' to their own advantage, they are also fearful that the Group will turn against them when the truth dawn on the Group.
Even if no violence is planned by a disciplined and educated group of Singaporeans, the MIW Government is simply to afraid to face the truth that the ground swell of their unpopularity is growing, and they are afraid that the truth of a tidal wave of genuine grievances will simply sweep the MIW from their present all powerful position.
It is obvious that these proposed amendments are designed to tighten the rules of persecution of anyone who will dare to breech these sets of unreasonable laws that totally bastardise the original intent of the Singapore Constitution to the Freedom of Speech and Assembly of Singaporeans. -
There are no proposed amendments in the above. Sylvia wants amendments to be made.
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I would prefer to see a proposed amendment rather than making an amendment straight away.
Making a change straight away is a short term plan, resulting in more changes in the future. -
noooo!!
they can't do that!!!
coz.. coz... then the idiots in SDP have got nothing else to get themselves arrested over for their publicity stunts!
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Idiots in SDP ?Originally posted by the Bear:noooo!!
they can't do that!!!
coz.. coz... then the idiots in SDP have got nothing else to get themselves arrested over for their publicity stunts!
This is at least some progress from the possibility of CSJ or SDP being arrested on some dubious man-slaughter charge of 'back-stabbing'...
Has CSJ or SDP disappointed your hopes to such deep and personal levels ? -
Sylvia Lim's Parliament speech on Penal Code Amendment Bill on 22 October 2007:
http://www.wp.sg/wordpress/?p=46
Video:
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/parliament/videoarchives.htm -
yes they have.. they have turned the opposition into a joke after the SDP, under the one whose back he stabbed, turned it into a credible force and people started to look at them as a serious contender to the wards they stood in...
yes he has... by his ineffectual and disgraceful antics and publicity stunts, he has squandered the finite pool of public sympathy and attention so that in future, if and when there are important issues brought up by non-MIW people, it will be looked at and dismissed because the SDP and CSJ has cried wolf too many times...
but my disgust for him aside.. what has he done for Singapore lately other than cry to foreigners for sympathy? because he'll get none, or worse, he'll get fake sympathy and foreigners will use him to gain political advantage for themselves... there is no such thing as a free lunch.. whatever it is out there in the political world, they WILL do so only if their actions further their own agenda...
and hey.. if you believe otherwise, you're more naive and ignorant than you look...
CSJ is spoken of like some kind of clown out there... because he is..
as for his 'brilliance'.. if he was so brilliant, he'd be heading a constituency by now..
for all his bleating and claptrap, democracy = the will of the people..
the will of the people says that even a suicide squad kamikaze untested untried and unheard of lot from the WP going against Lau Lee's son, the PM can get better than national average votes in the last GE.... against the SDP who could not do better than to go harrass the election officials (see Colin Goh's blog) and then barely retain their deposits, i would say it's democracy at work.. it is the will of the people.. to reject his antics...
btw... the people of WP, LTK and CST has worked hard, meeting the people, doing what they can for their constituencies, and helping out where they can directly for the people... what has CSJ done? really.. what has he done?
you know a person by his actions and his deeds.. he's more interested in publicity and attention than actually working for the people...
which is why i find it strange that people actually believe him
so... take away the law against peaceful assembly? i wish they would...
Originally posted by Atobe:Idiots in SDP ?
This is at least some progress from the possibility of CSJ or SDP being arrested on some dubious man-slaughter charge of 'back-stabbing'...
Has CSJ or SDP disappointed your hopes to such deep and personal levels ? -
A leading Singaporean Activist but a failed politician...
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so out of proportion. you hammer a MP and it gets you 7 years but you hamtum a peasant and he had to spend $$$ to fight a civil case
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You are wrong they want to amend it, but Sylvia is against it. The amendment for illigal assembly is max jail term increased to 2 years instead of now 6 months. Sylvia is against it. This amendment is to deter CJS from conducting unlawful assembly, is not 3 weeks you come out from Queenstown prison anymore, it is more than that durationOriginally posted by kramnave:There are no proposed amendments in the above. Sylvia wants amendments to be made. -
It's easier to squeeze water out from cold hard concrete than for this to get approved by parliament.
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Sylvia should just leave it alone, why fight for SDP and Chee but not a word of thanks from them and they are stabbing her with things she did not say.Originally posted by t_a_s:You are wrong they want to amend it, but Sylvia is against it. The amendment for illigal assembly is max jail term increased to 2 years instead of now 6 months. Sylvia is against it. This amendment is to deter CJS from conducting unlawful assembly, is not 3 weeks you come out from Queenstown prison anymore, it is more than that duration
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Thats right.Originally posted by t_a_s:You are wrong they want to amend it, but Sylvia is against it. The amendment for illigal assembly is max jail term increased to 2 years instead of now 6 months. Sylvia is against it. This amendment is to deter CJS from conducting unlawful assembly, is not 3 weeks you come out from Queenstown prison anymore, it is more than that duration -
This is the moment of truth. If Sylvia Lim can prove that Singapore alone can can deal with rule of good law issues against one party rule without the support from the international community, then kudos to her.
Otherwise, the opposition should seek to iron out differences privately and come together to form a united front, to speak in public as one voice for the people.
Then any see-saw games has to be from the moles seeking to sabotage the coalition. -
Sylvia Lim in my opinion, is like a good boxer.
A good boxer in a boxing ring will not attempt a knock-out punch too soon, but dances around (& along) till the time is right, to land the knock-out blow... -
Hey Ravenclaw, are you JKR fan? Does MIW remind you of MoM during DH era?
Post at my forum if you have read HP. -
Altho I am a Gazellian super pro supporter, I must say what Sylvia is fighting for the People is one of the things I wish for every July holiday.
I am overwhelmed that she is taking up this challenge in the name of working for the People. I feel that she is no joke and able to show she dares and is really sincerely trying to fight for the People. Kudos.
These are my gazellian perspectives only. -
I sometime sincerely wonder how many man in sg is more man than she.Originally posted by HyperFocal:Sylvia Lim in my opinion, is like a good boxer.
A good boxer in a boxing ring will not attempt a knock-out punch too soon, but dances around (& along) till the time is right, to land the knock-out blow...
kudos!
How many would risk it all to fight for the People ? -
She is doing well so far. She speaks with a lot of common sense too and not legal jargon.Originally posted by reddressman:Altho I am a Gazellian super pro supporter, I must say what Sylvia is fighting for the People is one of the things I wish for every July holiday.
I am overwhelmed that she is taking up this challenge in the name of working for the People. I feel that she is no joke and able to show she dares and is really sincerely trying to fight for the People. Kudos.
These are my gazellian perspectives only.
If the state wants to attribute a offence like unlawful assembly it should not just prohibit assembly per se but should reference it an assembly with a common intent to participate in something illegal or crimes. There ought to be a principal act for which such a assembly is undesirable and to be prohibited.
If the principal act is to call to attention something concerning the government's policies like its involvement with Myanmar military junta or RSAF flying over Myanmar airspace or arm dealings then the principal act is not criminal or illegal or criminal.
Such an offence like unlawful assembly cannot stand alone as it is meaningless and may give rise to punishing assembly which are harmless or even good for the government like supporting its call to bring about peaceful transition or reconciliation in Myanmar. -
Certain things must be freedomised.
example : sex. If prostitution is banned, what happens ? u know and maybe I know.
the fact is prostitution is immoral to an extent especially to married men.
But what if to protect people based on this immorality, and ban all prostitution such that anyone caught prostituting will be death with severely like the worse we can see, then what happens? you know and maybe I know too.
The Moral of my immoral story is this :
Freedomization has to be given for some things.
Its like basic needs.
Sex is a basic need.
DIY can be painful at times.
Too much of it hurts the ego and self-esteem.
do a google search to learn more.
Thus, its clear that while immoral , somethings need to be freedomised.
while scared of riot, somethings need to be freedomised.
while kiasi, somethings need to be freedomised. example, driving car is in itself, be default has inherant risks - its not how good a drive you are. Its how bad a driver the strangers out there can be. right ?
Thus, should car driving be prohibited since by doing so, no car accidents will happen. so good right?
Its clear that with IQ and wisdom in handling and managing, freedomised actions can become as normal as driving a car, a plane or a boat.
Freedomisation - its how good are you in managing it.
To me, sg is too tiny to be difficult to manage when u compare with humongous countries like USA. Even then, USA has not collapsed or become inhospitable and has in fact been the inventors of basically everything you know. Of course, not everything but the key word is 'basically everything'.
May the Freedom be with You!
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Is any one laughing at WP, SDA, or even the NSP ?Originally posted by the Bear:yes they have.. they have turned the opposition into a joke after the SDP, under the one whose back he stabbed, turned it into a credible force and people started to look at them as a serious contender to the wards they stood in...
Is the PKMS a joke as you have expected for WP, SDA and the NSP ?
SDP under CST was just as ineffective as SDA now is - even if CST managed to keep his seat by the good grace of the MIW.
Since CST entered politics by standing in Cairnhill against the late Lim Kim San, he had never strike anyone as impressive.
It took another four more attempts before CST made any headway, then again, his success had always not been through his own unimpressive efforts, but through sympathy votes as a result of LKY's big mouth that derided CST educational qualification compared to his MIW selection.
During the 2002 Election, CST barely managed to keep his seat.
You are simply making a whipping boy out of CSJ due to your own narrow feelings of personal disappointments.
Your reasons seem rather hollow considering that Steve Chia as an NMP had made an impact in Parliament despite CSJ's continuous disappointing antics that ran parallel to Steve Chia's performance in Parliament.
yes he has... by his ineffectual and disgraceful antics and publicity stunts, he has squandered the finite pool of public sympathy and attention so that in future, if and when there are important issues brought up by non-MIW people, it will be looked at and dismissed because the SDP and CSJ has cried wolf too many times...
Even Low Thia Kiang and Sylvia Lim were more impressive then CST - inspite of CSJ's dismal performance at politics.
Are your assessment and views consistent with the actual events, or are you simply building a mole hill from a few scraps of leftover mud ?
If you believe that there is no free lunch, and that in the political world - every politicians will do so only if their actions further their own agenda - you should qualify the differences in the personality involved.
but my disgust for him aside.. what has he done for Singapore lately other than cry to foreigners for sympathy? because he'll get none, or worse, he'll get fake sympathy and foreigners will use him to gain political advantage for themselves... there is no such thing as a free lunch.. whatever it is out there in the political world, they WILL do so only if their actions further their own agenda...
Wrapping every character in the same wrapper will dishonor the more selfless politicians in the like of Sun Yat Sen, Ghandi, Mandela, George Washington, and other freedom fighters of their stature.
Then again, how could you even hope to appreciate such selfless values when none exist in a warp mind that is more interested in fabricating dishonest fantasies despite the factual events that transpired.
If you do not wish to see positive acts from the efforts of anyone, can anyone force you to observe any positive outcome from those CSJ's supposed negative actions ?
LKY's despotic actions have been condemned since the before even CSJ was born, with Singapore being kicked out of the Democrat Socialist International Movement in the mid-1970s.
Throughout the 1970s and into the 1980s, with CSJ still in school, LKY and Singapore has been constantly in the negative spotlight of Amnesty International, the various US and UK publishing houses, and the various Law Societies and Legal Bodies that include the Privy Council - all of which had taken LKY to task for his ruthless use of Law to suppress legitimate alternative political voices from the likes of JBJ, Francis Seow, Tang Liang Hong, as well as the Law Society, and even from the Catholic Church.
Did CSJ contributed to the negative views and criticism directed at Singapore during the 1970s and 1980s ?
How do you even know how I look, or if I am naive or ignorant ?
and hey.. if you believe otherwise, you're more naive and ignorant than you look...
On the contrary, have you seriously look at your own position after you have been consistently exposed - more then twice - for your preferred venomous personal position towards CSJ, that is void of objectivity in opinion, with a purposefully dishonest approach at ignoring actual events that transpired but preferring to fabricate your own version of a back-stabbing theory that is based on sheer fantasy.
Can you be taken seriously ?
Unfortunately, the view is held only by your own narrow personal bias and preferred dishonesty towards yourself and others in handling the facts.
CSJ is spoken of like some kind of clown out there... because he is..
contine below -
continuation
Take away the law against peaceful assembly - the only losers will be Singaporeans - who have genuine grievances but are unable to get any response from the MIW clones.
as for his 'brilliance'.. if he was so brilliant, he'd be heading a constituency by now..
for all his bleating and claptrap, democracy = the will of the people..
the will of the people says that even a suicide squad kamikaze untested untried and unheard of lot from the WP going against Lau Lee's son, the PM can get better than national average votes in the last GE.... against the SDP who could not do better than to go harrass the election officials (see Colin Goh's blog) and then barely retain their deposits, i would say it's democracy at work.. it is the will of the people.. to reject his antics...
btw... the people of WP, LTK and CST has worked hard, meeting the people, doing what they can for their constituencies, and helping out where they can directly for the people... what has CSJ done? really.. what has he done?
you know a person by his actions and his deeds.. he's more interested in publicity and attention than actually working for the people...
which is why i find it strange that people actually believe him
so... take away the law against peaceful assembly? i wish they would...
Even Hongkongers have the avenues to voice their frustrations publicly and get their grievances out into the open.
Is CSJ the only person to benefit from the efforts in his push to get wider political space ?
Is it not for Singaporeans to regain the Basic Rights that the MIW Government is terrified of allowing Singaporeans to exercise ?
The fact that there are people willing to believe in CSJ's philosophy shows that there are people who are cynical to the self-serving policies of the MIW clones that form the Government of the day.
Those who believe in CSJ are not merely the uneducated or the under-class, but persons who are tertiary educated, who probably feel their hollowed out political souls that have been robbed and raped by the MIW Clones.
How would you know if he and his party members have not been tending to the Constituencies that they have stood in the last election ?
With your deep seated bias and dishonest efforts to make repeated fantasies into reality - how much truthful validity exist in your remarks about CSJ and the SDP ?
CSJ's efforts at gaining as much publicity as he can get is part of his declared position that Singaporeans must be broken out of the mould of political slumber, to break Singaporean's deep seated fear of being involved in politics that bring them into direct confrontation with the false legality that the MIW had build up to protect themselves, simply by bastardising the Constitution.
CSJ has not deviated from this path of educating Singaporeans politically and to show Singaporeans the non-violent ways to regain the Political Rights that the MIW had taken away from Singaporeans - by making the ridiculous claims that POLITICS is the preserve of POLITICIANS only.
As a result of the continuous process since the 1957, the MIW clones have restructured the rules and regulations that will hinder the Political Rights of Singaporeans in deciding issues that directly affect Singaporeans.
Compare this pathetic political paralysis of Singapore Citizens that is in total contrast to the SWISS - who has a grip on all issues that affect the Citizens, and with the Swiss Government willingly encouraging the Swiss Citizens to participate with the Government to decide on policy matters for their COLLECTIVE FUTURE.
The fact that a suicide squad could have made such deep impact on the minds of the AMK residents could be attributed to their collective disgust towards the MIW in the manner of persecution and derogatory remarks made in the past towards CSJ, Francis Seow, Tang Liang Hong, JBJ and all other politicians in the Alternative Camp.
History making events cannot always be due to a single stroke of luck, but it is certainly always influenced by a series of events that can span from recent times to a series of events across the years.
The fact that a young WP suicide squad could steal the thunder from LHL and his GRC team clearly show that the people has been emboldened to express their grieviances.
Who do you think has been encouraging PRO-ACTIVE Political Action to regain their Political Rights ?
Obviously, we cannot expect you to be honest enough to give credit to CSJ.
How could you as it will simply contradict your venomous attitude towards CSJ, and simply goes against the grain of your fantasy about his back-stabbing expertise. -
Actually, I am very surprised that Sylvia even brought this up. The WP is known for focusing on bread and butter issues. But nevermind, I am very impressed with Sylvia for bringing this up.
Which is also very ironic that the SDP is now criticising her. Stupid SDP. They don't know how politics should be played in singapore. Now, even attacking their own opposition colleagues.
Dumb Dumb Dumb!
One thing's for sure: Sylvia's speech in Parliament has garnered more coverage and allowed more singaporeans to know what the WP says than the SDP's many illegal protests.
Now, how many of you actually remember the last thing that Chee Soon Juan said?
"More democracy"????
I think the SDP should just close shop. -
There are many ways to skin the dominant party cat.
SDP is not doing these "foolish" things without reason. What you see, may just be there for public consumption.