ERP helps more S'poreans to own cars: Minister
-
Yeah and regulate traffic condition? How to when the population is expected to hit 6mil!!!
Full of shit.. -
Oil companies have little social responsibility towards Singaporeans, unlike the govt.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:Whether everyday rob people or every road pay - petrol will cost as much a liquor. Who says you can't drive and drink?
Oil companies are making record profits - why no postings here ?????
That is irrelevant to the nature of this thread anyway. Kindly keep to topic. -
These are the responses in the asiaone forum. There seems to be an overwhelming consensus that the minister has made a grossly inaccurate boast, one that smacks of reality disconnect.
http://forums.asiaone.com/showthread.php?t=7430 -
nope, just found you are (often) treading on the the issues that are brought by the pap. had to clarify. cuz the forums have too much in-mature postersOriginally posted by Rock^Star:PAP supporter a not, what relevance does it bring to this discussion? A non issue, really.
Yes, how true. ERP is meant to curb congestion, not add to its problems.
(by ur reply, looks like u r not )
actually, how many ppl here actually think those replies they gave are what they felt?
i smhow believe all these are sponsered "model" answer/action they are given.
good or bad, they are just a facade that implements the answer/action given to them. to them, it's just work, and their work is to carry out the order given by the background superior. like in the army, a higher rank say do wad, they do.
anyway, back to the topic, instead of questioning on raymond lim's speech, wad we need to query is the aim for ERP in the first place.
have they mentioned the erp existance is to help more sg ppl buy cars? -
The thing is, he hasn't showed convincingly how ERP has actually helped Singaporeans to own cars. If he can show hard facts and data that strongly indicates a correlation between ERP rates and car ownership, I'll be able to believe him.Originally posted by Rock^Star:These are the responses in the asiaone forum. There seems to be an overwhelming consensus that the minister has made a grossly inaccurate boast, one that smacks of reality disconnect.
http://forums.asiaone.com/showthread.php?t=7430
Otherwise, I say that I can take his logic further and claim that ERP is to be blamed for an increase in the price of char kway teow.
After all, if ERP has helped more Singaporeans to own cars, then they can drive to more hawker centers and eat out more often=> demand for char kway teow goes up => ceteris paribus, price of char kway teow goes up.
Tio boh?
-
If one can say that "I often tread on the issues brought about by the pap", that surely is a superficial truth. I have always endeavoured to make my posts as objective as possible, even if the focus is solely on the governance of this country.Originally posted by extrinsic:nope, just found you are (often) treading on the the issues that are brought by the pap. had to clarify. cuz the forums have too much in-mature posters (by ur reply, looks like u r not )
actually, how many ppl here actually think those replies they gave are what they felt?
i smhow believe all these are sponsered "model" answer/action they are given.
good or bad, they are just a facade that implements the answer/action given to them. to them, it's just work, and their work is to carry out the order given by the background superior. like in the army, a higher rank say do wad, they do.
anyway, back to the topic, instead of questioning on raymond lim's speech, wad we need to query is the aim for ERP in the first place.
have they mentioned the erp existance is to help more sg ppl buy cars?
It is also somewhat a callous presumption to say that many answers by forumites here are "sponsored model answers". Sweeping statements are almost always inaccurate.
Anyway, back to the topic as per your call, it seems now that Raymond Lim's statement was a convenient ride on the benefits of ERP. Delusional....I say. -
Yes, spot on. Tio. Precisely.Originally posted by fudgester:The thing is, he hasn't showed convincingly how ERP has actually helped Singaporeans to own cars. If he can show hard facts and data that strongly indicates a correlation between ERP rates and car ownership, I'll be able to believe him.
Otherwise, I say that I can take his logic further and claim that ERP is to be blamed for an increase in the price of char kway teow.
After all, if ERP has helped more Singaporeans to own cars, then they can drive to more hawker centers and eat out more often=> demand for char kway teow goes up => ceteris paribus, price of char kway teow goes up.
Tio boh?
Don't just patronise hundreds of thousands of Singaporean motorists. Prove it. -
can't they just close down the whole erp shit? its not working. just admit it is a wrong policy. I'm certain many of us won't blame the government. Stop using more lousy policies to cover lousy policies.
-
*chokes on tea* Is he high on coke?
-
who say they are no linked..Originally posted by Rock^Star:Oil companies have little social responsibility towards Singaporeans, unlike the govt.
That is irrelevant to the nature of this thread anyway. Kindly keep to topic. -
Originally posted by Rock^Star:
I do agree with him actually, it is always the same recycled shi.t. the only difference is that the shi.t is coming out from different arsehole and in different colors, shapes and sizes.
If one can say that "I often [b]tread on the issues brought about by the pap", that surely is a superficial truth. I have always endeavoured to make my posts as objective as possible, even if the focus is solely on the governance of this country.
It is also somewhat a callous presumption to say that many answers by forumites here are "sponsored model answers". Sweeping statements are almost always inaccurate.
Anyway, back to the topic as per your call, it seems now that Raymond Lim's statement was a convenient ride on the benefits of ERP. Delusional....I say.[/b] -
Originally posted by Rock^Star:
i apologised then, for presuming you are always treading on pap
If one can say that "I often [b]tread on the issues brought about by the pap", that surely is a superficial truth. I have always endeavoured to make my posts as objective as possible, even if the focus is solely on the governance of this country.
It is also somewhat a callous presumption to say that many answers by forumites here are "sponsored model answers". Sweeping statements are almost always inaccurate.
Anyway, back to the topic as per your call, it seems now that Raymond Lim's statement was a convenient ride on the benefits of ERP. Delusional....I say.[/b]
i just find too many ppl hating pap w/o knowing the reasons why.
to me, they(pap) are not completely w/o merits, however, i do not feel wad they done deserve the million dollar paycheck.
and sorry, i'm referring to ministers, not forumites here for have the "sponsored model answers"..
and ya, back to the topic, it dosen't matters anymore, from the way i see things, you can complain till u go mute, but nutting wld be changes.
u see, words dun change anything, but action does. -
Last time when road tax, COE and import taxes were high, it was meant to discourage people to buy car... then they say our road can afford to take in more car and they reduce a little bit of taxess ( though still high ) .. so more people buy car .. how can they say they collected less when more are buying ... then say congestion so raise ERP ... this is to prevent more cars on certain stcrecth of the road ... so the car owner don't want to pay the charges go to other road ... then there congested. start ERP there ... and the cycle go on ... so I am confused ... if want to control traffic, shouldn't they had not allow so many cars on the road ... if allow so many car, they shouldn't tell people to give up and take public transport right ... ? so this is why we pay them millions to make our live difficult ??? Hmm...
-
funny...
-
Apologies accepted.Originally posted by extrinsic:i apologised then, for presuming you are always treading on pap
i just find too many ppl hating pap w/o knowing the reasons why.
to me, they(pap) are not completely w/o merits, however, i do not feel wad they done deserve the million dollar paycheck.
and sorry, i'm referring to ministers, not forumites here for have the "sponsored model answers"..
and ya, back to the topic, it dosen't matters anymore, from the way i see things, you can complain till u go mute, but nutting wld be changes.
u see, words dun change anything, but action does.
We are all here to seek the truth.......and it is true that the respective ministries have their own library of reply templates. I have personally witnessed the work of one ministry myself. Cut and paste, coupled with editing to smoothen the wording flow and then checking the dossier to see if any similar emails have been sent to the person before.
Hence, the huge sincerity factor missing in the problem solving process.
In my opinion, words come before action. The importance of spreading the message in forums is of utmost importance. Come elections, the effect shall then manifest itself in action. -
[/b]Originally posted by Rock^Star:Apologies accepted.
We are all here to seek the truth.......and it is true that the respective ministries have their own library of reply templates. I have personally witnessed the work of one ministry myself. Cut and paste, coupled with editing to smoothen the wording flow and then checking the dossier to see if any similar emails have been sent to the person before.
Hence, the huge sincerity factor missing in the problem solving process.
In my opinion, words come before action. The importance of spreading the message in forums is of utmost importance. [b]Come elections, the effect shall then manifest itself in action.
...Tot you say stick to the topic and no political. -
Originally posted by citymax:
Of course but since it was brought up by another forumite, I cannot be so rude as to not answer.
...Tot you say stick to the topic and no political.[/b] -
okie, thanks for explaining Rock^star.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Of course but since it was brought up by another forumite, I cannot be so rude as to not answer.
lets get back to the topic again.
the seriousness of the traffic and the policies(erp) that made so many millionaires and still dont solve the problem. why cant LTA accept that ERP doesnt solve any problem. -
Singaporeans have been given a very bad deal. For so many years now ministers have been making empty promises that if people pay higher excise duty it will reduce road congestion.
So for many years ministers have been piling on all kinds of taxes direct, indirect justified and unjustified in the name of solving the road congestion problems.
So the middle class is a dying breed now. In name people who earn $3,000.00 pm are middle class but in fact after being milked dry by such double and triple quizzical taxes not intended or aimed at solving real problems they have mostly become paupers.
By paying more monies i.e. increasing vehicle excise duty, imposing COE and now ERP, the road congestions today are still left unsolved. No wonder the residents in the Sin Min estate who met the minister Raymond Lim in talk shop were so upset with road congestions saying that they do not mind to pay for ERP but for goodness sake after paying more and more ERP at least they expect the problems will be solved or relieved.
Now it looks like the minister could just issue a press statement and say that there is no solution but only some holistic solutions the original promises to solve the problems with COE and ERP could just be pushed away. It is equal to denial of the current big congestions found on our roads despite all the taxes and payments.
So as all can see for themselves, the worse problem as always is not problems. It is the mentality of our entrenched ministers who seem to be able only to come up with nice excuses and get away from earnest promises made in parliament without solving problems by explaining them away.
There is a common saying - if someone wants to deny a problem any reason is good enough.
How nice is it to collect millions and yet the problems remain unsolved. Civil servants in LTA and Transport ministry have just announced that they are going to get higher bonuses and 17% pay rise on 1.1.2008 for solving road congestion problems by way of explaining the problems away.
It can only happen in the little red dot. -
I have yet to see your reply to this post of mine 24 Oct 6:10 pm.Originally posted by Gazelle:I do agree with him actually, it is always the same recycled shi.t. the only difference is that the shi.t is coming out from different arsehole and in different colors, shapes and sizes.
To Gazelle:
while what Raymond Lim say might have some truth to it, he should at least back it up with statistics.
For example:
1) What was the ERP collected since implementation in 1996?
2) How much has COE shrunk for the past 5 years?
3) How much of ERP revenue goes towards offsetting the reduction in COE?
Or has it been that all along, ERP was meant as an easy source of revenue for the govt?
Surely some explanation here would help, rather than patronising Singaporeans with a mere "We have helped you" statement? -
This ranks up there with the "GST increase is to help the poor"
-
agreed...remember to archive it 2gether wif the peanuts..Originally posted by charlize:This ranks up there with the "GST increase is to help the poor" -
Is Raymond Lim on drugs?
ERP only makes the overall cost of owning a car much higher. Might as well use the revenue from that source to subsidise public transport fares.
And yet Park & ride culture isn't being actively promoted. Geylang Fringe bus station is set to go in 2 more years. -
Originally posted by Rock^Star:
he is a good stand up comedian.
[b]Oct 22, 2007
ERP helps more S'poreans to own cars: Minister
Responding to a question for written reply in Parliament on Monday, Transport Minister Raymond Lim said this is reflected in the growth of Singapore's car population from 680,000 in 1997 to 800,000 in 2006.
THE use of Electronic Road Pricing (ERP) has made it possible for more Singaporeans to own cars.
Responding to a question for written reply in Parliament on Monday, Transport Minister Raymond Lim said this is reflected in the growth of Singapore's car population from 680,000 in 1997 to 800,000 in 2006.
Dr Fatimah Lateef, MP for Marine Parade GRC, had asked the Minister if the ERP scheme has met the objectives that it was meant to achieve and if it has improved the traffic flow on expressways especially during peak hours.
In his reply, Mr Lim said since its implementation in 1998, ERP has been effective in maintaining average travel speeds on priced roads within the optimal speed range through regular reviews and rate adjustments. For example, average speeds on the expressways have remained at above 45km/h during peak hours.
"The use of ERP to manage traffic has made it possible for more Singaporeans to own cars than we otherwise could, and our vehicle population has grown from 680,000 in 1997 to 800,000 in 2006," he added.
"It has also allowed the Government to rely more on car usage charges and less on car ownership taxes to manage traffic demand, and as a result, vehicle ownership taxes have been reduced. "
The Ministers said the government will continue with a holistic and integrated approach using all the tools available to keep the roads smooth-flowing. These include building more roads, regulating vehicle growth, implementing traffic engineering solutions, managing traffic demand through ERP and promoting the use of public transport.
Source: ST
[/b]