Addressing the political fear
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Is James Gomez still being monitored/ surveillanced secretlyOriginally posted by hloc:Is James Gomez dead
In prison Exile Under house arrest What
Nothing happen to James Gomez after the election..... not even a lawsuit, which is MIW's fave weapon of mass destruction.
It is such unfound fear that is the problem...... cellular house phone Internet recording What other ppl?
Nothing happen to James Gomez's privacy after the election??? No one knows for sure..... not even an official statement
It is the lack of checks and balances that is the problem. -
Exactly...you don't know and you are speculating..thats why its called spreading fear.Originally posted by wheelcamp:Is James Gomez still being monitored/ surveillanced secretly cellular house phone Internet recording What other ppl?
Nothing happen to James Gomez's privacy after the election??? No one knows for sure..... not even an official statement
It is the lack of checks and balances that is the problem. -
Spreading fear?Originally posted by kramnave:Exactly...you don't know and you are speculating..thats why its called spreading fear.
More of concern due to lack of checks and balances. -
Well.... short, simple, to the point.Originally posted by kramnave:Exactly...you don't know and you are speculating..thats why its called spreading fear.
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then what you want ? the govt to film a documentary on gomez work and social life abroad and show it on tv to show that he is safe and happy ? That would mean that they are tracking him also wat....tskOriginally posted by wheelcamp:Spreading fear?
More of concern due to lack of checks and balances. -
Mmm.....Originally posted by wheelcamp:Spreading fear?
More of concern due to lack of checks and balances.
If govt setup some board for "checks and balances"..... confirm you won't believe any finding.
If govt have someone outside to do the "checks and balances"..... U also won't believe unless they condanmn MIW.
Seems to me a no win situation. -
Btw.....
Wheelcamp..... if you did vote for the opps, may I know what you think that the govt could 'do' to you ?? Could you give some example please.... best if the example happened to you instand of hearing from here & there.
I personal have heard that -
1) you won't be able to buy season parking near your home if you vote for the opps.....
2) you children can't go to 'good' elite school.....
3) can't get promoted if working for govt.....
4) wouldn't get good medical treatment at Govt Hospital.....
5) wouldn't get employ by GLC......
too much 'stories' to tell..... most are just funny -
Originally posted by Melvin Tan:
it will continue to be difficult to encourage people to come into the opposition fray as long as anyone who enters it cannot lead a normal life.
I thought I will start a new thread to discuss some comments on WP's quid pro quo, rather than hedge on topics that are discussing other parties or topics.
As someone within WP, I would say the party generally feels that it will continue to be difficult to encourage people to come into the opposition fray as long as anyone who enters it cannot lead a normal life.
And as long as this remains, the opposition cannot strengthen in numbers.
Naturally, this does not mean there has to be compromises, or much compromises.
This, as much as I understand and try within my means to convey, is what I see as the WP's approach. Admittedly, this opinion may not be shared by all.
Regards[/b]
Agree... Who knows if you become the next Gomez.... -
Originally posted by Melvin Tan:Thanks for sharing. I think eradicating fear is also very much an individual effort, as much as the ruling or opposition parties are expected to or accused of not doing anything about it.
The key is to be observant and logical of the surroundings.
Firstly, a quarter to a third of Singaporeans vote for the opposition in every election, but I do not see a quarter to a third of Singapore children being denied entry into PAP kindergartens.
Secondly, I do not see a quarter to a third of Singaporeans become homeless because HDB refused to grant them a flat for voting opposition. I had a friend who had to wait 7 years to get a flat because he voted SDP in Braddell Heights in 1991. He attributed this to the way he voted. But at that time, HDB was less inefficient in granting new flats. My parents who were PAP voters had to wait 6 years before a new flat finally came in 1990.
Thirdly, you can't get into any soup buying an opposition publication on the street because every one of them has a registration number from MICA (Ministry of Info, Comm and the Arts). Oppositionists would have been first to get arrested for selling an illegal publication before any buyer gets any repercussions.
Regards -
Originally posted by Melvin Tan:
With all due respect, dear Melvin, I would just like to know does what you post here represent WP's views?
I thought I will start a new thread to discuss some comments on WP's quid pro quo, rather than hedge on topics that are discussing other parties or topics.
As someone within WP, I would say the party generally feels that [b]it will continue to be difficult to encourage people to come into the opposition fray as long as anyone who enters it cannot lead a normal life.
And as long as this remains, the opposition cannot strengthen in numbers.
Naturally, this does not mean there has to be compromises, or much compromises.
This, as much as I understand and try within my means to convey, is what I see as the WP's approach. Admittedly, this opinion may not be shared by all.
Regards[/b]
A logical question, you may agree ? -
James Gomez is back in Sweden, working at International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance (IDEA) in Stockholm, Sweden as Programme Officer in the Political Parties Programme.
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Yes, a logical question, fair enoughOriginally posted by reddressman:With all due respect, dear Melvin, I would just like to know does what you post here represent WP's views?
A logical question, you may agree ?
But I will need more specifics. In usual chit chat, no. For this case, I am expressing what I know of WP, and in such cases when I do, I will state so.
I think political fear does harm to an opposition party's prospects, in terms of winning seats and recruiting members. That, I strongly believe all opposition parties in Singapore agree.
I know, among other things, that those presently in-charge of running WP have the view that opposition party members have to lead normal rather than disturbed lives, not withstanding the loss of some privacy. This in turn will attract people who want to do something for the country.
This is not written in stone though and is based on the present political condition as Kramwave has put forth quite well.
Others have others way of addressing the fear. That, I will not dispute.
Regards -
He is watching the Singapore government, and not the other way round.Originally posted by LazerLordz:James Gomez is back in Sweden, working at International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance (IDEA) in Stockholm, Sweden as Programme Officer in the Political Parties Programme.
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If an opposition member is no threat and perceived to be lacking the charisma or intellect to topple the government being mild, moderate or speaking the obvious then perhaps such a member will be left to survive and may even be praised and quietly supported as puppet opposition which will be serving the interest of the ruling party.
If an opposition member is fiery and able to rouse the people and lock horn with the ruling party, life will not be so simple and he will be definitely under the microscope of ISD.
That explained perhaps why opposition like Tang Liang Hong, Francis Seow or Jeyaratnam were not left alone but were put down fairly or unfairly with defamation suits if need be to nip them in the buds and allow the ruling power to stay in power.
Ideally it will be good for Singapore to vote in about 30-40% opposition MPs of quality and ability and not put up with only proxy oppositions which actually serve only the ruling party interest.
That is why the ruling party has been praising such moderate proxy opposition for their own good.
So the people ought to grow up in political maturity and not be brainwashed into thinking that the ruling party will serve their interests.
Without a strong opposition with such powerful presence in parliaments and ability to cause change everything else will be just wayang kulit. That is why so many of the harsh policies like recent commandeering of people's own CPF savings into annuities to be paid to them at 80 are being forced down the throat of the people by all the look-good pretentious speeches which were hardly tackled by any of our NMPs or MPs.
The present growth of economy is artificial and largely due to our luck of a world recovery and is not real or attributable to any fundamental economic restructuring to a value-adding economy yet. Our leaders are presently enjoying a ride on a upturn in the world economy boosted by the hope generated by IR.
Just look for the true picture at the number of business closures among the shops and factories in the neighbourhoods of JTC or HDB. It is a system of government which is full of protectionism, self-interests and hypocrisy. -
duplicate deleted.
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Hi,Originally posted by robertteh:If an opposition member is no threat and perceived to be lacking the charisma or intellect to topple the government being mild, moderate or speaking the obvious then perhaps such a member will be left to survive and may even be praised and quietly supported as puppet opposition which will be serving the interest of the ruling party.
If an opposition member is fiery and able to rouse the people and lock horn with the ruling party, life will not be so simple and he will be definitely under the microscope of ISD.
That explained perhaps why opposition like Tang Liang Hong, Francis Seow or Jeyaratnam were not left alone but were put down fairly or unfairly with defamation suits if need be to nip them in the buds and allow the ruling power to stay in power.
Ideally it will be good for Singapore to vote in about 30-40% opposition MPs of quality and ability and not put up with only proxy oppositions which actually serve only the ruling party interest.
That is why the ruling party has been praising such moderate proxy opposition for their own good.
So the people ought to grow up in political maturity and not be brainwashed into thinking that the ruling party will serve their interests.
Without a strong opposition with such powerful presence in parliaments and ability to cause change everything else will be just wayang kulit. That is why so many of the harsh policies like recent commandeering of people's own CPF savings into annuities to be paid to them at 80 are being forced down the throat of the people by all the look-good pretentious speeches which were hardly tackled by any of our NMPs or MPs.
The present growth of economy is artificial and largely due to our luck of a world recovery and is not real or attributable to any fundamental economic restructuring to a value-adding economy yet. Our leaders are presently enjoying a ride on a upturn in the world economy boosted by the hope generated by IR.
Just look for the true picture at the number of business closures among the shops and factories in the neighbourhoods of JTC or HDB. It is a system of government which is full of protectionism, self-interests and hypocrisy.
Your post is well-written but pardon me if I am unable to put my finger on it, unless I have read the meaning wrongly.
If opposition candidates that are good are the ones that the PAP will persecute, how is the opposition ever going to arrive at the 30% - 40% in Parliament?
If opposition candidates who make it into the 30% - 40% and deemed "left alone" by PAP and hence opposition voters should not support, how is the opposition ever going to arrive at the 30% - 40% in Parliament?
I seek your advice and guidance.
Regards
(3rd para edited for more clarity) -
Do not expect the ruling party to do the citizens a favor. It has its own hidden agendas to serve. So even if it knows that a 30-40% opposition members will be genuine oppositions who could then put pressure on entrenched ministers to get out of their comfort zone and self-interests and protectionism and work hard to serve the people with better decisions and better performance do you think it will try to create the right conditions to make this happen.
My short answer is a big no because the ruling party is too self-serving and self-centred judging from its past performances to change.
The only way is for opposition parties to unite by one common objective - to hunt for talents with true ability and not shut out people who may be vocal with leadership and charisma and try to make it their utmost common goal to support the rise of stars and use their collective resources to use such stars to lead them to form coalition or merge parties so as to offer the real alternatives to the ruling party.
Hu Jin Tao and Wen Jia Bao of China have just nominated some new blood with potential to succeed them by the next election following what Deng Xiao Peng has done to sacrifice for the political evolution of the whole country.
This should be what politics at the end is all about - sacrifice of self for the good of the country. Opposition members too should do the same - renewal. -
Hi,
If the above post was a reply to me, thanks for the pointers. I beg more questions for enlightenment.
If the PAP will not create the right conditions for opposition to harvest and on top of it, create conditions to ensure this does not happen, can the opposition grow with unity, hunt for talents, sacrifice of self and renewal?
If the answer is yes and the opposition can grow with unity, hunt for talents, sacrifice of self and renewal, would it be that the PAP has, through being unable to convince the people of the opposition's inept, created the right conditions for them to harvest?
Regards -
Let me relate a contrasting story today. It might make no sense but here it goes.
I met my Norwegian contacts for many rounds of beers. They appreciate what we have here even when we have erm "no democracy". Whats happening there is, they have social welfare for all and they have the same population as us. However they have many homeless people despite the welfare. These homeless people choose to lead their lives that way as they would have more money for drugs. In their society, criminal offences like drugs trafficking, murder, rape etc warrants a less penalty like corruption or general corporate crimes. Don't ask me why but thats what i was told. They have different "precedences" there and my contacts wish that there was less "democracy" as in what we have in Singapore. Such thing perpetuate there as their politics is 50-50 and no political parties want to offend if you would like. I was convinced that the ruling party(PAP) is doing a very great job.
I had to take a cab and had a cabbie who was very much into politics. Somehow i kinda instigated him into talking about politics. I remembered that many years ago, cab rental rates were about $90 per day. Today, i sat in a Skoda and his rental is about $110 per day and diesel rates are of course much more than it was when he first started out. He started to KPKB about the government not caring. However i realised that he is worse off than before. Somehow i felt that competition is bearing fruit as the benificiaries are consumers. However, who gives a damn about the taxi driver ? Every form of price increase is a bad word to consumers. What hit me was that the government managed to make the taxi driver worse off and make the consumer feel worse off. Something is wrong is it not ? I leave you people to decide whats happening today. I'll come back and hope that there is a fruitfull discussion.
Is everybody worse off ? Is it due to the government ? Will we better off as a "true democracy" ? We need to answer these questions. If we feel that we are getting a rough deal, how do we need to make it better ? -
It is an interesting point that the SDP is perpetuating the fear. I agree. When Singaporeans see them protesting in public, singaporeans say "siao lang!". When singaporeans see them being arrested, singaporeans say "They deserve it!". But singaporeans, in their hearts, when they see this, also become fearful.
WP is going about it the right way. I agree with Melvin that opposition needs to show the public that being in opposition you can still lead a normal, successful life. Only when people see this will more people be willing and unafraid to join the opposition.
And only then can we have a true alternative presence in parliament.
The SDP don't think this way. Their way is: "We are right! We cheong! Bleed nevermind. Cheong even more!"
In doing this, they frighten more singaporeans away from opposition.
The results show this: WP is growing. SDP is dying.
Need I say more? -
We should read the WP and SDP websites to draw our own conclusions than to passively read the forum members' post.
It's not as bad as some posters would want us to believe - that WP and SDP are always at loggerheads. -
Classical divide and conquer.
So far, despite the brickbats thrown at SDP, they are still the only ones who have managed to make ministers look blanched and utterly lost in the international media. -
I believe sg'rean sense of democracy is not as mature as the those countries who really celebrate and are proud of their democracy. So much so, they fight for their rights and put in great effort to preserve their freedom and democracy.Originally posted by GPSg:It is an interesting point that the SDP is perpetuating the fear. I agree. When Singaporeans see them protesting in public, singaporeans say "siao lang!". When singaporeans see them being arrested, singaporeans say "They deserve it!". But singaporeans, in their hearts, when they see this, also become fearful.
WP is going about it the right way. I agree with Melvin that opposition needs to show the public that being in opposition you can still lead a normal, successful life. Only when people see this will more people be willing and unafraid to join the opposition.
And only then can we have a true alternative presence in parliament.
The SDP don't think this way. Their way is: "We are right! We cheong! Bleed nevermind. Cheong even more!"
In doing this, they frighten more singaporeans away from opposition.
The results show this: WP is growing. SDP is dying.
Need I say more? -
Ha ha!Originally posted by reddressman:I believe sg'rean sense of democracy is not as mature as the those countries who really celebrate and are proud of their democracy. So much so, they fight for their rights and put in great effort to preserve their freedom and democracy.
We see them and think theirs is very good.
They see us and wish if only theirs is like ours.
Get your info from all levels of society, as well as from foreigners.
There are foreigners who appreciate our system, as there are those who condemn it. You have the choice as to where you want to slant your opinions. -
When people start taking public money for their own pocket....
