An Open Letter of Catherine Lim to PM Lee Hsien Loong
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You think dishonorable people will reply?Originally posted by robertteh:Hierarchy of democracy :-
(One-man-one-vote representation, three realms of government legislature, judiciary and executive with executive subjected to checks and balances as fundamentals to prevent abuse, so that the people will truly enjoy a system which will be judged by the people which will keep allowing them to change and elect the governments without rogues or hypocrisy to establish better lives)
[People]
|| (Master of government)
[Government] = by election
|| (Servants of people)
[Duties, Responsibilities]
|| (Not decided by a few leaders but by people)
[Results]
Western democracy (not perfect) has given the above-stated framework which will ensure over the longer term the best government by the best people to offer hope of better life, materially, socially, spiritually where citizens and only citizens are free from bondage or slavery or tyranny to be their own masters who collectively served by information and news which are free to decide the kind of fate, and government they want through such a framework of democracy.
Think about it - is there a better and proven system of government (whether called democracy or whatnot) to challenge the above-stated system
What autocracy does so far is to tweak the components of government and give themselves power over the various parts and components and processes which are not fully and effectively proven to be successful.
People in the are not happy but they cannot vote because of tweaking of laws and hypocrisy. Such autocracy will fail over the longer term and it now only serves the rich and the governing elites. Catherine Lim is right in exposing the hypocrisy and the authoritarians have yet been able to reply to her criticisms.
see: The onus is on public officials to explain, and come up with the evidence, not sue. -
You seem to have the perfected the art of chasing your own tail in your manner of argument.Originally posted by Daddy!!:28 October 2007 - 08.34 AM
when a country or empire gets prosperous, its people grow to be weaker and complacent. (consider what happened to the roman empire). to ensure people are always on their toes and struggle in life is one way to bring up good leaders for the country. the only way to ensure people struggle and yet able to succeed is by taxing them to slightly above their break-even cost of living. to be able to tax them so much requires a perpetual government which does not worry of losing its power at elections.
Can a country where produce good leaders by keeping them on ''their toes and struggle in life'' perpetually by ''taxing them to slightly above their break-even cost of living'' ?
What do you mean by ''taxing them to slightly above their break-even cost of living'' ?
Are you suggesting that this continuous cycle of struggle through taxes will produce good leaders ?
Surely this government ''do not worry of losing its power at elections'' as it has literally sewn up as many possibilities as it can that exist for the Alternative Parties to survive and grow - either by legislative acts, or by sheer slyness in continuously keeping the Alternative Parties off-balance by redrawing the electoral boundaries, and changing the rules of the elections.
Can such a government that abuse the Citizens have any legitimacy in claiming the mandate when it has only 66.6% of only 30% of the population that actually was able to participate in the Election ?Orignal post by Daddy!! - 28 October 2007 - 08.43 AM
Can Singaporeans get softer and softer over time when you claimed in your earlier post that they are kept on their toes in a continuous struggle to pay the heavy taxes that are imposed just above the break-even cost of living ?
the real risk is not ONLY having a wrong leader up there as prime minister. the real risk is ALSO Singaporeans get softer and softer over time, without motivations because they grow up without much sufferings
if you ask for more from the government, you are making the country weaker from this perspective because when the population gets more, it gets to worry lesser and lesser hence softer and softer, in the end weaker and weaker.
Can there be no sufferings when they are kept in a continuous struggle to pay such taxes imposed above the break-even cost of living ?
Can there be no motivation to respond to a Government that abuse the citizens by legislative acts of terror on the Citizens ?
Can the country get weaker by asking the Government for more ?
Are you suggesting that while the Government has taken so much by way of taxes on the people above the break-even cost of living, and have asked the people to accept their demand for MILLION DOLLAR Ministerial Wages - it will bankrupt the country if the Citizens also make demands on the Government ?
Whose fault is it if a Country will go down the drain in such a political development - the Citizens, or the ruling political that formed the Government ? -
Singaporeans of the next generation will definitely be weaker and softer. First and foremost, they are borned with golden or silver spoons in their mouths. They don't know how to wipe their own backsides with all the foreign maids at their becks and calls. They have not faced any depravations or hardships nor experience the ravages of Japanese occupations or threats from neighbouring countries. They have everything their stoopid mummys and daddys would rush to buy, give or pamper. They can't even walk two kilometres to school! And the NS boys now lived in luxurious camps or country clubs.Originally posted by Daddy!!:the real risk is not ONLY having a wrong leader up there as prime minister. the real risk is ALSO Singaporeans get softer and softer over time, without motivations because they grow up without much sufferings
if you ask for more from the government, you are making the country weaker from this perspective because when the population gets more, it gets to worry lesser and lesser hence softer and softer, in the end weaker and weaker.
By the time they grow up, they will be facing emerging countries like Cambodia, Vietnam, Burma, Indonesia not to mention India and China - where the people there are hungrier and hardier.
What's the use if the leadership is strong but the population is weak. We see more gays, effeminated males and sissies in the streets, army and malls! -
Originally posted by Daddy!!:
How many forms of Democracy is there ?
has Catherine Lim asked the rest of Singaporeans what type of democracy they want?
which type of democracy do robert teh, adobe, andrew yap really want? talk so much, still make everyone who read this forum a sotong by being so unclear as to which type of democracy they want. what is it exactly that they are fighting for?
With your brilliance in thinking perhaps you could venture some idea as to the meaning of Democracy ? -
just out of topic abit..Originally posted by Atobe:How many forms of Democracy is there ?
With your brilliance in thinking perhaps you could venture some idea as to the meaning of Democracy ?
i classify singapore as a commu proxy democratic nation....ruled by 1 party.... -
Originally posted by Daddy!!:
Has the USA managed to escape deep recession by simply ''diverting american's attention to the iraq's war'' ?
the reason why USA managed to escape deep recession was because its government diverted the american's attention to the iraq's war. before bin laden, american sent spy plane to china as a provocative act. why? because they understand that to continue to maintain its global superpower status, USA must always have an enemy, otherwise its population gets complacent and the country goes into decline. the objective is to keep its population on its toes all the time.
i assure you that even if Iraq's war is finished and iraq becomes peaceful, another global threat will surface and it will concern the americans.
Do you think that this escape has helped the US in its economy ?
Are you certain that the ''american sent spy plane to china as a provocative act'' - simply to '' continue to maintain its global superpower status'' ?
Is Singapore's act of sending an electronic spy plane regularly up the Straits of Malacca to Myanmar and back - an act of provocation to our neighbors simply to divert Singaporeans' own continuous struggle with the high taxes that this government imposed ''just slightly above the break-even cost of living'' as was suggested previously by you ?
The USA has sent spy planes all across the globe as part of their military efforts to monitor threats that can suddenly evolve from all countries that have the potential of turning hostile to the national interest of the USA.
China, Russia, Japan, Israel, and Australia have all similarly their own intelligence assets that monitor their own potential adversaries - to gauge their level of military activities and any of their hidden programmes that can be picked up through electronic surveillance of the communication airwaves.
Singapore is similarly no different to protect our own national interests around this region.
Are you aware that even as the USA - under Bill Clinton's 10 year guardianship as the US President - was positively in the BLUE in their balance sheet, and had the best national reserves accumulated since the previous 20 years ?
Are you aware that during the Bill Clinton Presidency - despite there being no economic recession - the US Military had also continuously allowed its electronic surveillance planes to monitor the hidden and open communications in the airwaves by flying close the recognised international borders of the targetted countries ?
Which political or military school have you been influenced with this line of thinking ? -
Bush came up with his famous "axis of evil" in his first year, when most of the world was in recession, even before sep 11. which school are you from?
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Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:
So the ''Pile of Crap'' is back just when the ''Crap Sniffer'' is gone - is this a co-incidence ? Surely, you will morph to get him back after this remark.
Singaporeans of the next generation will definitely be weaker and softer. First and foremost, they are borned with golden or silver spoons in their mouths. They don't know how to wipe their own backsides with all the foreign maids at their becks and calls. They have not faced any depravations or hardships nor experience the ravages of Japanese occupations or threats from neighbouring countries. They have everything their stoopid mummys and daddys would rush to buy, give or pamper. They can't even walk two kilometres to school! And the NS boys now lived in luxurious camps or country clubs.
By the time they grow up, they will be facing emerging countries like Cambodia, Vietnam, Burma, Indonesia not to mention India and China - where the people there are hungrier and hardier.
What's the use if the leadership is strong but the population is weak. We see more gays, effeminated males and sissies in the streets, army and malls!
I suppose that when you are a kid - before knowing even how to crawl, and only can wail to have crap plonked into your mouth - you can wipe your own backsides, fetch the pampers, and plonked crap into your own mouth - and all through your own babyish effort ?
Can we deduce that your own ''stoopid mummys and daddys'' are not so stupid but have given up on their own kid who is no better then a ''Pile of Crap'' and simply walked away from you, and got you to perform all the herculean tasks of growing yourself up as a baby before the crawling stage ?
Do you seriously think that the DNA of most Singaporeans will allow the challenges from the emerging countries to grow into a real threat and overwhelm Singaporeans ?
Should we doubt the quality of your own DNA, when most Singaporean's DNA spring from forefathers who were living under Colonial Rule and had thrived before the arrival or even birth of LKY and his MIW clones and clowns ?
Yes, about the only statement that you have made with some degree of accuracy is that - ''What's the use if the leadership is strong but the population is weak''.
Is the fault that of Singaporeans from becoming weak, or is it the purposeful political abuse of Singaporeans - depriving Singaporeans of the Political Rights, and making Singaporeans Politically Numb through legislative terrorisim - that has made Singaporeans weak ?
Surely, LKY has achieve his political goals in controlling Singaporean by ''Filling the Stomach, and Dull the Minds''. -
democracy is an ideal. every country in the world does not practice democracy 100%.Originally posted by Atobe:How many forms of Democracy is there ?
With your brilliance in thinking perhaps you could venture some idea as to the meaning of Democracy ? -
Come on don't get so easily piqued, and think deeper or go back to school to be a real Daddy!!Originally posted by Daddy!!:Bush came up with his famous "axis of evil" in his first year, when most of the world was in recession, even before sep 11. which school are you from?
Was the ''axis of evil'' an original idea from this Country Boy President, or was this not a twist of Ronald Reagan's remark ''Empire of Evil'' ? -
Democracy is more then a simple idea - unless you prefer not to put it into actual implemenation.Originally posted by Daddy!!:democracy is an ideal. every country in the world does not practice democracy 100%.
Tell that to the parlimentarians in the various full Demcracy of the EU Countries that include UK.
Tell that to the parlimentarians in Australia, India, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, South Africa, Israel, Sweden, Finland - any more that I may have missed out ?
Yes, also Malaysia - which is on the road to a right track after being detoured by a wilfull Mahathir behaving and believing himself to be equal to MM LKY. -
double post -
no matter how you acclaim, Bush came up with his "axis of evil" literally very provocative and he did this during a global recession. I assure you, we will live to see another big recession, and i assure you that USA will be ten times more provocative and aggressive than now.Originally posted by Atobe:Come on don't get so easily piqued, and think deeper or go back to school to be a real Daddy!!
Was the ''axis of evil'' an original idea from this Country Boy President, or was this not a twist of Ronald Reagan's remark ''Empire of Evil'' ?
it sounds like you are still a immature chap, fresh from school -
the ideals of democracy failed miserably in United Nations' security council. Can I say that the security council, particularly the US, acts for their own interests and boo chap the rest? -
hahhaha, you are and will always be covered in this pile of crap, except that it gets higher and deeper. Your political vibes and colour hasn't changed and I think the fault lies in your DNA.Originally posted by Atobe:So the ''Pile of Crap'' is back just when the ''Crap Sniffer'' is gone - is this a co-incidence ? Surely, you will morph to get him back after this remark.
I suppose that when you are a kid - before knowing even how to crawl, and only can wail to have crap plonked into your mouth - you can wipe your own backsides, fetch the pampers, and plonked crap into your own mouth - and all through your own babyish effort ?
Can we deduce that your own ''stoopid mummys and daddys'' are not so stupid but have given up on their own kid who is no better then a ''Pile of Crap'' and simply walked away from you, and got you to perform all the herculean tasks of growing yourself up as a baby before the crawling stage ?
Do you seriously think that the DNA of most Singaporeans will allow the challenges from the emerging countries to grow into a real threat and overwhelm Singaporeans ?
Should we doubt the quality of your own DNA, when most Singaporean's DNA spring from forefathers who were living under Colonial Rule and had thrived before the arrival or even birth of LKY and his MIW clones and clowns ?
Yes, about the only statement that you have made with some degree of accuracy is that - ''What's the use if the leadership is strong but the population is weak''.
Is the fault that of Singaporeans from becoming weak, or is it the purposeful political abuse of Singaporeans - depriving Singaporeans of the Political Rights, and making Singaporeans Politically Numb through legislative terrorisim - that has made Singaporeans weak ?
Surely, LKY has achieve his political goals in controlling Singaporean by ''Filling the Stomach, and Dull the Minds''. -
How odd your attempt at shifting the position of the alphabet 'h' in your effort to weak effort to laugh off the pique ?Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:hahhaha, you are and will always be covered in this pile of crap, except that it gets higher and deeper. Your political vibes and colour hasn't changed and I think the fault lies in your DNA.
So now you are having a 'hahhaha' instead of your previous 'hahaha' and 'hahahah' ?
Having you not always been laughing it off too early, as the one who laugh last will always have the best laugh ?
It seems that you still remain hung up with the vibes that only your 'pile of crab' is most sensitive to.
The problem with the low DNA quality from a 'pile of crap' hoping to resemble some kind of 'TheGoodEarth' is that you can try as hard as you like, but it will never reach the high hopes that simply spring out from your own vanity.
My political vibes and color has remain consistent and true as the magnetic poles, and you can try as hard as you like, but the magnetic fields remains as strong and constant.
Can you hope to match it, even as your expressions reflect some resentful envy ? -
Is the United Nation a Democratic Institution elected by the various citizens of the World ?Originally posted by Daddy!!: - 28 October 2007 - 01.07 PM
no matter how you acclaim, Bush came up with his "axis of evil" literally very provocative and he did this during a global recession. I assure you, we will live to see another big recession, and i assure you that USA will be ten times more provocative and aggressive than now.
it sounds like you are still a immature chap, fresh from school[/quote]
Make up your mind if he went to war with Saddam Hussein as a result of a Global Recession, or if it is simply a US domestic recession ?
Keep you assurance to yourself, and do something about it - can you do anything about it even if the USA will be ten time more provocative and aggressive ?
What is the basis of such pure speculation ?
Are you deflecting your attention to responding to my response to your two earlier posts concerning Singaporeans being weak and soft; which seems to be an effort from you to justify the MIW Clowns and Clones to cause perpetual sufferings - according to your theory in ''taxing to the break-even point of the cost of living - so as to maintain their own power'' ?[quote]Originally posted by Daddy!!: - 28 October 2007 - 01.09 PM
the ideals of democracy failed miserably in United Nations' security council. Can I say that the security council, particularly the US, acts for their own interests and boo chap the rest?
Surely you are stretching your efforts a little too thin ? -
so you mean that the americans democratically elected their president and their president can behave like an authoritarian in the security council? what is your zeal about democracy? isn't it a hypocrisy too?Originally posted by Atobe:[b]
Is the United Nation a Democratic Institution elected by the various citizens of the World ?
Surely you are stretching your efforts a little too thin ? -
ideals belong to the saints. human beings are afterall human beings: mostly sinful.
I can assure you that even democracy will screw Singapore up. dont be so simple minded, tunnel vision.
singapore has already one formidable government and you want to change it even before the cracks appear? you think democracy is a super-glue? democracy will bring in politicians who are like actors, only look good on the surface. -
And what's your consistency? to question the view of others with rhetorical questions to contradict and deride others?Originally posted by Atobe:
My political vibes and color has remain consistent and true as the magnetic poles, and you can try as hard as you like, but the magnetic fields remains as strong and constant.
Can you hope to match it, even as your expressions reflect some resentful envy ?
To start a flame war?
Something's wrong with us today... Not just with the government, but going by the gist of this thread too... We're trying to be more open and inclusive to diverse views but intellectual arrogance or pure and simple "NATO" gets in the way...
I don't believe in complaining just for the sake of complaining (which many singaporeans seems to be very good at...)
I also don't believe in arguing for its own sake.
The question of freedom of speech, or a more open, inclusive Singapore, is largely sterile.
Even in the best of places, pple cannot eat democracy. If freedom of speech and political openness can achieve the greater good of better jobs, better economic opportunities and ensure the nations survival as a cohesive and viable entity, then its simply horses for courses.
There are valid arguments that suggests this to be so... the Knowledge Based economy is not about drones assembling cheap products in a production line. Its about intellectual capital being able to work in an attractive place that provides the environment that best taps their know-how and fosters innovation.
It is still about bread and butter issues.
Singapore is not yet such a place because of its relative restrictiveness.
In proceeding with this civil discussion, may we have counter-arguments or alternative views instead of just rhetorical questions? -
I remember Indonesian want democracy during the Suharto period n he was called the dictator during the 32 years of his presidency which he fell fromOriginally posted by Daddy!!:ideals belong to the saints. human beings are afterall human beings: mostly sinful.
I can assure you that even democracy will screw Singapore up. dont be so simple minded, tunnel vision.
singapore has already one formidable government and you want to change it even before the cracks appear? you think democracy is a super-glue? democracy will bring in politicians who are like actors, only look good on the surface.
grace in May 1998. Following Suharto's fall from the presidency, the idea of reformasi or reform to change Indonesia into a democracy has achived little success. Todat people in Indonesia is hoping another strong man like Suharto will come back to rule Indonesia. -
A strong leader with proper checks and balances is what Indonesia needs. Not just a strong leader without any channels to ensure he exercises his power, authority and non-official influence responsibly.Originally posted by will4:I remember Indonesian want democracy during the Suharto period n he was called the dictator during the 32 years of his presidency which he fell from
grace in May 1998. Following Suharto's fall from the presidency, the idea of reformasi or reform to change Indonesia into a democracy has achived little success. Todat people in Indonesia is hoping another strong man like Suharto will come back to rule Indonesia. -
The real issue here behind Catherine Lim's open letter to PM is not that people like her are anti-government.
We have a government which keeps boasting of its talents and leadership and yet it has been unable to solve the most fundamental and crucial problems facing our country like Catherine has written - government has stubbornly believed that it and only it alone has the talents and abilities without being willing to listen to alternative views and solutions.
If the government is like the Myanmar military junta probably people will not criticise them as much because such a government does not go around the world boasting to everybody how good it is.
But once a government boasts about its having so much leadership and world-class ministers they must be prepared to be criticized heavily for any policy failures or mistakes like the Shin Corp blunder, NKF or any other incompetency like failing to stop the blatant fire risks in Hougang or create jobs to overcome the frequent deep recessions.
Its people will be entitled to debunk such a government for any lies and hypocrisy and nail down where the true cause of all the problems.
This is a state of denial which is the duty of every citizen to correct and if they have to go to the street to do so they are justified to do so.
People only want to have a more caring government which is considerate to the people and stop all the unnecessary and unjustified over-taxing taxing and profiteering when government every year has been making surpluses.
Has it listened despite many feedbacks for the past umpteen years ? Has the government cared to present proper budgets to show not only regular incomes and expenditures but to show all the hidden windfall profits it has been quietly making in presenting the annual budgets or asking to increase GST or hospital fees and all kinds of charges.
Like the NKF's Durai trying to deny problems by misrepresenting its patient subsidy the government sadly is doing worse in claiming its needs to build more surpluses without showing all the profits and surpluses it has been accumulating.
People have shown their displeasure with Durai paying higher and higher salaries to himself and his staff with this kind of wrong doings and wrong policies supported by government ministers and patrons and their spouses.
Some NKF staff has even got super increments beyond all imagination within a space of two to three years and even extra months of bonuses when she has already resigned.
When this kind of mentality to tax and accumulating taxes as surplues the government is not a caring government. That is why people have been experiencing much problems.
Now when we are experiencing world recovery and Singapore has won a respite of some kind it is real time for government to listen to the people who has the courage and intellect to understand the real problems and speak up.
We should not condemn critics like Catherine Lim and call them anti-government or negative as some government cyber-agents like Friedquest is doing.
Instead Catherine Lim and many critics like her are good people who are doing all a favor. They are asking government to stop its past autocratic decision makings and stop all the excessive over-taxing, creaming of surpluses which should have been used wisely to create jobs or lower costs of medical treatments etc for citizens.
Has the government listened? It seems it is still denying problems and claiming credits for such taxing and cost recovering at the expense of growth of the economy and trying to tell the world they have done such a wonderful job which on closer examination is self-praise and hypocrisy.
So to all the ministers, just do your jobs professionally and do not be hypocrites. Try to consider all the persistent problems like the rising costs of living and our losses in competitiveness due to autocratic uncaring and unmotivational governance of the past era.
It is time for our ministers to grow up from only caring for their own career path due to fear of autocracy and delay in solving real problems.
Government has over-taxed the people and people are getting poorer with no or little saving to fend for their retirements as already been found out and admitted due to wrong policies of the past.
So make changes and stop making unnecessary profits and make use of existing surpluses for creating jobs or lower costs of living or increasing our economic competitiveness.
It does not make sense to pay ministers millions just to make them more afraid to speak up to MM or PM to correct the real cause of all the problems.
Like Metaphorical said, it is as simple as that - ministers are too afraid to tackle real problems caused by autocracy and are only caring for their own career and goodwill of MM and PM who therefore withdraw to their own comfort zone and refuse to change to be more caring for the people.
Catherine Lim is right. People are being taken for granted because of autocracy which has already reared its ugly head in many hidden problems like exposed in NKF.
We the people hope PM could see the validity of Catherine Lim's open letter and not regard her writing as defiance or challenge. For all we know by listening to her there is nothing to do but everything to gain depending who is looking at the problems facing the nation. -
Like I said before, you never failed to solicit a good laugh from me - hahaahh. You will and always be covered in the pile of crap. That's in your DNA but you forget about that. That's why your colour don't change. I have no envy of your political vibes and have no wish to be in pole position like you. Try shifting again, maybe the pile will move.Originally posted by Atobe:How odd your attempt at shifting the position of the alphabet 'h' in your effort to weak effort to laugh off the pique ?
So now you are having a 'hahhaha' instead of your previous 'hahaha' and 'hahahah' ?
Having you not always been laughing it off too early, as the one who laugh last will always have the best laugh ?
It seems that you still remain hung up with the vibes that only your 'pile of crab' is most sensitive to.
The problem with the low DNA quality from a 'pile of crap' hoping to resemble some kind of 'TheGoodEarth' is that you can try as hard as you like, but it will never reach the high hopes that simply spring out from your own vanity.
My political vibes and color has remain consistent and true as the magnetic poles, and you can try as hard as you like, but the magnetic fields remains as strong and constant.
Can you hope to match it, even as your expressions reflect some resentful envy ? -
Originally posted by Daddy!!:
Can the US President behave like an authoritarian in the Security Council ?
so you mean that the americans democratically elected their president and their president can behave like an authoritarian in the security council? what is your zeal about democracy? isn't it a hypocrisy too?
The USA is as helpless as a kid when Russia and China excercise its Veto.
Your understanding of the Democracy is a pot of confused concepts and assumed ideas.
Can any sensible discussion take place, when you move in such a wide tangent across a wide space ?
Is the UN a democratic institution ?