No more laughing, and decidely giving more thought ?Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:hmmm .... you are indeed into my pile of crap - yet ever higher and deeper. Your narration confirms my part of history - that Britain granted independence to its former colonies only when a NEW nation called the Federation of Malaysia is formed. Had SG remained in the Federation, would you say that Britain granted independence to Singapore? I think you are good in research but poor in deduction!
You have plenty of time to go round the bush and quote irrelevant parts here and there to suit yourself. But serioulsy, answer the question in red.
Originally posted by TheGoodEarth: 28 October 2007 - 10.37 PMhahaha, you got into this pile of crap again. Wah, your history are poles apart from mine. But thank you for copying part of it - the Federation of Malaysia. No, when SG joined the Federation, it is not independence for Singapore because there is no nation/country by the name Singapore but a state within Federation!
Britain gave independence to the Federation, not Singapore. The Federation was the British idea, and it was the basis and condition for Bristish colonies in Far East! Go read up history instead of magnetism.
hahaahha, you made me laugh again. Why are you repeating exactly what I said? You did not answer my question in red and still in the pile?Originally posted by Atobe:
It is obvious by now that the deteriorating condition in your 'pile of crap' has made you only able to attempt at weak laughter to regain composure but not any effort to read and think carefully.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:hahaahha, you made me laugh again. Why are you repeating exactly what I said? You did not answer my question in red and still in the pile?
Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:Had SG remained in the Federation, would you say that Britain granted independence to Singapore?
Originally posted by TheGoodEarth: 28 October 2007 - 10.37 PMhahaha, you got into this pile of crap again. Wah, your history are poles apart from mine. But thank you for copying part of it - the Federation of Malaysia. No, when SG joined the Federation, it is not independence for Singapore because there is no nation/country by the name Singapore but a state within Federation!
Britain gave independence to the Federation, not Singapore. The Federation was the British idea, and it was the basis and condition for Bristish colonies in Far East! Go read up history instead of magnetism.
Why are you shifting the pile? You still have not answer my question in red Had SG remained in the Federation, would you say that Britain granted independence to Singapore?Originally posted by Atobe:
So you do recognised your 'pile of crap' ?Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:Why are you shifting the pile? You still have not answer my question in red Had SG remained in the Federation, would you say that Britain granted independence to Singapore?
Be honest with yourself if you have made a U-Turn.... or did you simply made an honest error in typo-print TWO TIMES in one paragraph in your reply posted on 28 October 2007 - 10.37 PM ?Originally posted by TheGoodEarth: 28 October 2007 - 10.37 PMhahaha, you got into this pile of crap again. Wah, your history are poles apart from mine. But thank you for copying part of it - the Federation of Malaysia. No, when SG joined the Federation, it is not independence for Singapore because there is no nation/country by the name Singapore but a state within Federation!
Britain gave independence to the Federation, not Singapore. The Federation was the British idea, and it was the basis and condition for Bristish colonies in Far East! Go read up history instead of magnetism.
Originally posted by Atobe: - 28 October 2007 - 11.27 AM
With more time in hand, and poring through the contents in a reference given in my last post - LKY writing a memorandum in which he had put forward a case for INDEPENDENCE THROUGH MERGER - there are some very interesting information that one can harvest looking back at the historical records in this reference piece.
From this memo prepared by LKY to Tunku, note that LKY had consulted UK Commissioner General (1953-69), Sir Robert Scott, Earl of Selkirk on the independence of Singapore through merger with Malaya, and subsequently including the British Borneo Territories.
This LKY ''meeting with Selkirk'' led to further meetings with Tunku Abdul Rahman and members of his Cabinet - notably Tun Razak and Tun Ismail - to obtain their acceptance; and it led to the Tunku asking LKY to prepare a proposal that will detail the creation of a Federation of Malaysia - combining the territories of Federation of Malaya, Singapore, Brunei, Sabah and Sarawak.
Before LKY's memo was submitted to Tunku Abdul Rahman, LKY ''consulted with Selkirk again'' and had him agree not to inform Tunku about the knowledge of this memo. While Tunku was reviewing LKY's memo, the UK Government was also similarly informed by Selkirk to the details of LKY's memo outlining the merger of the Federation of Malaya, Singapore, and the British Borneo Territories.
From this piece of information, it will seem that Malaysia was the brain child of LKY - and was not the creation of Tunku Abdul Rahman reputed publicly as the Father of Malaysia.
Now we know the deep personal disappointment felt in LKY to the failed merger, and for the tears that flowed during the public announcement.
It was a personal creation that was hijacked by the shrewdness of others who are more wily and adapt at politics - constantly moving behind the scenes and honed in the art of back-stabbing.
Could this be the lingering ache that lead to a continuous hang-up of LKY with the idea of any future merger with Malaysia ?
Is LKY planning a second come-back to take back the brain child that rightfully belong to him ?
Perhaps this time around LKY will listen to more experienced voices that understand the Malay minds, or does he continue to believe that his experience is more then sufficient to cope with the new situation as he had believed in himself being capable in the early 1960s prior to merger and ignored all other opposing voices ?
Now I wonder where did 'TheGoodEarth' developed the idea that merger leading to the creation of Federation of Malaysia was a British idea - must have picked up the whiff of a gossip from some familiar 'pile of crap' ?
Originally posted by Atobe:It has previously looked as if our independence was fought first by David Marshall and subsequently the credit went to MM Lee.
Good piece by Ghandi Ambalam except for that part concerning the timing between Tunku's announcement and the claimed idea that LKY capitalised on Tunku's announcement.
Many had believed that Malaysia was Tunku's idea, and this view has been affected by new evidence released from the Public Records Office in London, which has thrown new light on the development of that period of history in this region.
The reference site in my earlier post has shown the step-by-step events that transpired, which will reveal the events prior to the concept of a Federation of Malaysia being announced - and all was recorded in a piece that was entitled - [b]LKY writing a memorandum in which he had put forward a case for INDEPENDENCE THROUGH MERGER.
This reference site will require patient reading, and scrolling to several relevant sections that will provide even more interesting details from that period of our history.
[/b]
Originally posted by robertteh:Unfortunately, Tunku was never keen in having Singapore join the Federation, even when the seed of a greater Federation was planted into his brain by LKY - the Tunku only saw Sabah and Sarawak to be included but never Singapore.
It has previously looked as if our independence was fought first by David Marshall and subsequently the credit went to MM Lee.
Historical evidence probably showed otherwise i.e. Tungku had fought for independence of the whole territories of Malaya, Sarawak, Sabah and Singapore as a block known as Malaysia.
Our leader LKY simply went along with the plan out of convenience and had preferred to make it look like he had fought and won the independence for Singapore but actually it was Tengku who had obtained the independence for Singapore as a block of territories.
History then should be re-written to reflect a more accurate fact.
The First Battle for Independence
David Marshall led the first Merdaka Mission to open negotiations with the British for Independence of Singapore. Constitutional discussions began in London in April 1956. On board, representing the PAP, were Lim Chin Siong and Lee Kuan Yew.
The mission returned in failure and their demands for independence were refused. The British felt that the Labour Front government was too weak and the Communist elements in Singapore too powerful. If there was to be independence, the British fears needed to be calmed. David Marshall resigned and Lim Yew Hock took over as Chief Minister. He had two objectives. Firstly, he had to prove to the British that Singapore was able to resist Communism. Secondly, he wanted to purge the trade unions, schools and political parties of pro-Communist and Left Wing Leaders who were beginning to threaten the rule of the moderate politicians such as himself and LKY. Thus began a series of arrests under the Public Security Ordinance. Lim Chin Siong, Devan Nair and Fong Swee Suan were some of the prominent politicians being detained. (This issue will be dealt with in further details under Lim Chin Siong and Devan Nair at Part III)
It was Lim Yew Hock who took both blame and credit for the waves of Internal Security arrest. But the PAP was undoubtedly the main beneficiary of his tough regime. Lim Yew Hock arrested five Left Wing PAP members, newly elected onto the party’s Central Executive Committee (CEC) in August 1957, delivering the PAP from what was effectively a Left Wing Coup. Shortly after, PAP introduced the “cadres system” (to be elaborated under Dr Toh Chin Chye section at Part II), which prevented any further Left Wing infiltration into the party’s inner core.
Independence from the British
The next Constitutional Mission to London in April 1958 was a success. Under the State of Singapore Act in August 1958, the colony became a self-governing state. Elections for the new 51 member Legislative Assembly were scheduled for May 1959. Lim Yew Hock was given a heroÂ’s welcome on his return and a noisy motorcade from Kallang Airport.