Gays : To all Singapore Religious Leaders
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Smokers
Smoking is a bad habit.Smokers are discriminated against in many public places. They pay a lot of cigarette taxes.They don't say they want human rights.They never say their smoking is possibly due to their genes.They also never say smoking is neither good nor bad.
Gey sex is wrong.Geys claim homo is born.They say homo is neither right nor wrong.They want human rights.
Geys should learn from the smokers. -
According to u, ugly men are normally not geys.U are prejudiced against ppl who are ugly.U are trying to glorify geys.Originally posted by happieman:To repeat..
Maybe the law change .. hehe .. quite possible .. (a matter of time ..)
Maybe they become gays ... not quite possible.. ugly men are normally not gays ..
Maybe their sons.. daughters .. oops .. u never know .. -
If u beleive what u said,u shouldn't read my future msg.Originally posted by crosshairs:This is a repeat call for all sane people of logical minds to stop babysitting these poor people with intellectual disabilities. Please let them off. Please forgive their poor educational backgrounds, and please, don't give them a wall to bang their heads on, cos they are very hollow and very loud.
I think u have selfish interest on this issue. -
Originally posted by PRP:
SIS said homo was about orientation and not about action.If a gey just like other men but never engage in homo sex act,can he still be considered a gey?If there is no homo sex,there is no homo issue.
A person can have sex or abstain from sex.He can have protected sex or unprotected sex.He can have different kind of sex with man or woman.All sexual acts are conscious one.Unless he is addicted to certain form of sex,then he can't control himself.[b]How can homo sex be born?[/b]
How can a person only like ppl of the same sex only but don't like any person of opposite sex at all?Impossible! -
Smoking is a bad habit.Smokers are discriminated against in many public places. They pay a lot of cigarette taxes.They don't say they want human rights.They never say their smoking is possibly due to their genes.They also never say smoking is neither good nor bad.
Smoking is bad because it harms health. Now does homosexual harms health ?Gey sex is wrong.Geys claim homo is born.They say homo is neither right nor wrong.They want human rights.
Why is gay sex wrong
u never justified your standSIS said homo was about orientation and not about action.If a gey just like other men but never engage in homo sex act,can he still be considered a gey?If there is no homo sex,there is no homo issue.
Read at your previous reply. U r saying homosexual cannot be inborn because sex is controlled and not born. I am telling u we r talking about their sexual orientation, which is they like people of their same sex, and tat is inborn.How can a person only like ppl of the same sex only but don't like any person of opposite sex at all?Impossible!
Why impossible ? U don't use your own thinking as a universal yardstick against the whole world.
Homosexuality can refer to both attraction or sexual behavior between organisms of the same sex, or to a sexual orientation. When describing the latter, it refers to enduring sexual and romantic attraction towards those of the same sex, but not necessarily to sexual behavior.[1] Homosexuality is contrasted with heterosexuality (attraction, behavior, or orientation between opposite sexes), bisexuality (both sexes), and asexuality (neither sex).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual
U should read up more on homosexual before commenting -
Higher percentage of local homosexuals get AIDS.Is that related to homo or homo sex?
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Higher percentage of local homosexuals get AIDS.Is that related to homo or homo sex?
I have already stated many times tat homosexual doesn't mean they will be promiscuous and have casual sex and get AIDs. Lumping all of them together is unfair
And going by your theory, which is ignoring the fact tat homosexual is not equal to promiscuous sex. Then just purely looking at numbers, the highest percentage of AIDs carrier r africans. Using wiki, I approximate 65% of the world population who had AIDs r in africa. And they r straight. So we ban africans ? Heterosexual intercourse is the primary mode of HIV infection worldwide as well, and they can pass their virus to the children too which make it more deadly than homosexual. Ban heterosexual intercourse too ?
U only look at figures. U don't see the details and the difference.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aids -
Revisit again.Originally posted by stupidissmart:1.
SO lets say there is a homosexual named A. According to PRP, the problem why he is homosexual is because their parent teach him to like people of the same sex. He felt tat tis teaching is wrong. So my conclusion is tat PRP think homosexual have parents tat teach them the wrong thing, and tat equate to poor upbringing. Wat is wrong with my conclusion ?
2.
So u agree with me tat for scientific issue, we look at studies and evidence and not wat u think or I thought isn't it ?
3.
Tat is right. I never say tat the studies r conclusive. However there r studies, reason and ground to say tat gays r inborn. U cannot prove it wrong as well. And there r more studies showing homosexual is not a illness. Since we cannot say for certain, then why condemn them ? Shouldn't we give them the benefit of the doubt and let them live as normal people because it can very well mean they r inborn to be homosexual.
4.
Please explain the word in bold below.
377A: Any male person who, in public or private, commits, or abets the commission of, or procures or attempts to procure the commission by any male person of, any act of gross indecency with another male person, shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 2 years.
5.
Something u think wrongly again ?
6.
First, u cannot prove homosexual as a perversion. U only think, and your thinking is proven to be wrong sometimes.
Second, how they marry is really none of your business. Some marry in the sea, some drink all day, some go for traditional churches and some even have mass orgy. It has nothing to do with u.
Third, normal people have wedding dress in gowns and suits. They dress in gowns and suit. Wat do u expect them to wear then ? Clown suits with red polka dot underwear outside ?
Lastly, the thread is not about allowing gay marriages. It is about acknowledging there is such a thing as homosexual.
But I will avoid that.
1.
Read carefully what PRP actually said.
2.
I agree with you?
Read what I wrote.
3.
There are many studies, and these studies are by people who are through. They think its the brain size, they think it is genetics, they think it is upbringing, they think it is the number of elder male siblings, they think it is population density, they think it is normal ( because some animals to exhibit such traits) What ever they think of it cannot be conclusively proven. And it stand because it cannot be conclusively disproven. Most biological avenues have been probed, cells, DNA, dexterity, blood samples, penis size, armpit smell and what else. These are not conclusive, because in the early stages of the study they reveal a common thread, but further studies with a larger pool of subjects, the theory does not hold.
So you have to decide yourself. That is what I am asking you. What you think. Present it here. Tell us.
Paedophile what are they? Would you have any problem with them being perverts, a deviation?
Homosexuality is a perversion, and it does not need medical or psychological treatment as long as it is between consenting adults and does not cause harm to any of the parties.
4.
I have explained earlier the workings of 377A.
It is not against gays, but against lewd acts between men, any men. It is also against pimping.
Again where there is no complaint, there is no action. This refers to the in private part.
I really hope you can understand the in public part.
5.
You certainly do have a trump card against me.
6.
I believe in male and female marriages. And all the presumptions that go with it. That is my belief, and I am not afraid to be wrong.
How things are done is the concern of the community. Peoples customs is not to be made a mockery of by others. I will be appalled, as will be many others, if a person of one faith marries according to the rites of another faith just to demonstrate some rights or personal freedom. Gays should not have attempted same sex marriages. They should have done something else. I suggested a personal contract. They can very well invent something .
The Americans are very creative, they came up with terms like gay for homosexuals. And 'Ho' for prostitutes. Now we can't use the word gay for happy, and Santa Claus is wondering whether to use the traditionsl 'Ho Ho Ho' greeting this Christmas season.
How they marry is everybodys' concern.
The point on weddings is not dress code.
This thread is about homosexual propagating their cause, and not enough is being done to oppose this trend. Gay marriages is a battle in the war. -
Ha, so late u still don't sleep and debate with me.Me tooOriginally posted by stupidissmart:I have already stated many times tat homosexual doesn't mean they will be promiscuous and have casual sex and get AIDs. Lumping all of them together is unfair
And going by your theory, which is ignoring the fact tat homosexual is not equal to promiscuous sex. Then just purely looking at numbers, the highest percentage of AIDs carrier r africans. Using wiki, I approximate 65% of the world population who had AIDs r in africa. And they r straight. So we ban africans ? Heterosexual intercourse is the primary mode of HIV infection worldwide as well, and they can pass their virus to the children too which make it more deadly than homosexual. Ban heterosexual intercourse too ?
U only look at figures. U don't see the details and the difference.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aids
Why can't u answer my last question i.e. "Is high percentage of geys getting AIDS related to homo or homo sex?" directly?My answer to that question is "yes".After answering "yes',u may still fruther probe into other questions.
Pls don't make the issue more complicated by including Africa.I believe just disucssing about local situation should be enuf. -
Read carefully what PRP actually said
Just tell me which part of my conclusion is wrongThere are many studies, and these studies are by people who are through. They think its the brain size, they think it is genetics, they think it is upbringing, they think it is the number of elder male siblings, they think it is population density, they think it is normal ( because some animals to exhibit such traits) What ever they think of it cannot be conclusively proven. And it stand because it cannot be conclusively disproven. Most biological avenues have been probed, cells, DNA, dexterity, blood samples, penis size, armpit smell and what else. These are not conclusive, because in the early stages of the study they reveal a common thread, but further studies with a larger pool of subjects, the theory does not hold.
I already told u. The result is inconclusive. And tat is why we should give them the benefit of the doubt. I have stated tis point many times and u simply ignore them.
So you have to decide yourself. That is what I am asking you. What you think. Present it here. Tell us.Paedophile what are they? Would you have any problem with them being perverts, a deviation?
I have problem with paedophile because they harm children. Now wat is your problem with homosexual ?Homosexuality is a perversion, and it does not need medical or psychological treatment as long as it is between consenting adults and does not cause harm to any of the parties.
I have stated many times. Prove it. Otherwise on wat grounds do u have to say it is a perversion and not a natural thing ?It is not against gays, but against lewd acts between men, any men. It is also against pimping.
Did u read the words carefully ? Let me explain in simple english for u
Again where there is no complaint, there is no action. This refers to the in private part.
I really hope you can understand the in public part.
Any male person who,
= A male person (lesbian is not included)
in public or private,
= it is an offense whether u do it privately or publicly
commits, or abets the commission of, or procures or attempts to procure the commission
= know or willingly and acts or attempt to commit
by any male person of, any act of gross indecency with another male person,
= any sexual act such as oral or anal
shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 2 years.
= can be caught and jailed.
So It literally means any man who have sex with another man, whether he do it openly or in his bedroom, is a jailable offence. Now u interprete the law for me in plain english and tell me where do u get the idea of pimping ?
Now u say tat if no one complaint, then there is no action. Isn't tat the same for all offences ? If u murder/rape/rob/cheat/beat/molest someone, and no one complains, authorities do not know, then no actions r done to u too. Isn't tat the classic SAF law ? U can do anything u want, but don't get caught.I believe in male and female marriages. And all the presumptions that go with it. That is my belief, and I am not afraid to be wrong.
U have your right to your belief but take note u shouldn't force your belief down other people throat.How things are done is the concern of the community. Peoples customs is not to be made a mockery of by others. I will be appalled, as will be many others, if a person of one faith marries according to the rites of another faith just to demonstrate some rights or personal freedom. Gays should not have attempted same sex marriages. They should have done something else. I suggested a personal contract. They can very well invent something .
Well in singapore same sex marriage is still not allowed, and it is not about a law tat is against homosexual marriage but homosexual itself. If u want to ban a law prohibiting them to marry, then I will have lesser things to say. But u r forcing them to live a life of calibracy. Tat is ridiculousThe Americans are very creative, they came up with terms like gay for homosexuals. And 'Ho' for prostitutes. Now we can't use the word gay for happy, and Santa Claus is wondering whether to use the traditionsl 'Ho Ho Ho' greeting this Christmas season.
Com'on... if u want to be fussy, "come" is also wrong and 69 is a funny number. But u have digress isn't it ?
How they marry is everybodys' concern.This thread is about homosexual propagating their cause, and not enough is being done to oppose this trend. Gay marriages is a battle in the war.
From the other side of the fence, I see the opposite. I see many religious people battling and propagating their cause and not enough is done to oppose tis trend. -
Why can't u answer my last question i.e. "Is high percentage of geys getting AIDS related to homo or homo sex?" directly?My answer to that question is "yes".After answering "yes',u may still fruther probe into other questions.
U have not answer my question at all. Is homosexual=having a lot of casual sex ? The answer is "no" and then why do u link the 2 together ? AIDs is caused by casual sex, whether u r straight or homosexual. I am sure u agree not all homosexual have AIDs. Why r they not getting AIDs despite "homo" and commiting "homo sex" ?
Pls don't make the issue more complicated by including Africa.I believe just disucssing about local situation should be enuf. -
SIS,
I find your style of debate is very tedious.Why don't u just debate the main points only? -
Many of the local geys are promiscuios,so there is high percentage of them getting AIDS?Is promiscuity related to homo?My answer is "yes".
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Sex is enjoyable.Of course, geys don't like ppl say homo sex is wrong.If it is really wrong,it would be better to recognise the truth.They can change or seek help.
I believe homo is wrong.Majority of the ppl surveyed don't accept it.The reasons why i think it is wrong,please read my past msg.
Sex is for building a family.Deviating from this norm,it is wrong and has problems.Pre-marital sex,homo sex,visting prostitute & adultery all bring problems.
If u agree with my opinion,good.If u don't,fine.Freedom of speech! -
I find your style of debate is very tedious.Why don't u just debate the main points only?
and i find your way of debate insincere because u never answer any of the questions posedMany of the local geys are promiscuios,so there is high percentage of them getting AIDS?Is promiscuity related to homo?My answer is "yes".
There is a fraction of them being promiscuous, but the majority is like any straight couple u know. Is promiscuity related to homo ? My answer is no. Promiscuity is related to men.Sex is enjoyable.Of course, geys don't like ppl say homo sex is wrong.If it is really wrong,it would be better to recognise the truth.They can change or seek help.
Wat is the truth ? How do u define truth ?I believe homo is wrong.Majority of the ppl surveyed don't accept it.The reasons why i think it is wrong,please read my past msg
I have challenged u to write down the points why u think it is wrong. U never did.Sex is for building a family.Deviating from this norm,it is wrong and has problems.Pre-marital sex,homo sex,visting prostitute & adultery all bring problems.
I believe I have answer tis before. Refer to page 11, 28th nov 1104pm
Different people have different goals and perception. U see sex is only meant after marriage but a lot of people don't see it tis way. A lot of people r married and do not have kids too. More people aren't even married and have blatant sex anywhere and anytime. Some refused to get married too. If u wanna ban, then they r all equally guilty.
Your idea of sex is not my idea. Different peope have different ideas. Don't force your ideas on others.
Why the discrimination ? why don't u lobby a law banning all premarital sex, or banning all prostitute, or making adultery jailable as well since they all caused problem ? -
Or perhaps a law banning prayer. It's dangerous for gawd believers to talk to imaginary beings.
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SIS,
U said most of the local geys are not prosmicuous.How do u know?How do u explain much higher percentage of the local homosexuals infected with AIDS?
I'm very sincere.Don't answer your questions is because sometimes it is difficult to answer questions and sometimes I think it is not very necessary to answer. -
Wrong analogy
Pro-homo ppl say choosing between hetero and homo sex is like choosing between apple & durian.Why do they choose good fruits and not bad fruit?Any action is either good or bad.So when they compare homo sex to good fruit.They are saying homo sex is good or morally right.Yet they never say homo sex is morally right.Terribly wrong in using the analogy to explain homo sex is neither good nor bad.Why don't they just say homo sex is morally right?[/b] -
If u really believe in what u say,why don't u put up a topic to argue for it?Then u can appreciate what i do for this topic.Originally posted by Phaze:Or perhaps a law banning prayer. It's dangerous for gawd believers to talk to imaginary beings. -
PRP, Remove your signature. You possess NONE and the irony of it is making crap my pants.
During bygone era, women were treated as inferior while men being superior. But as we progress, we abolish such thinking which result in women of our time.
Although there are still the minority who might do so, but these practices are frown upon on by most society.
What I am trying to say is even if you wish to keep deceiving yourself and allow that selfish thinking of yours to persist, our society will gradually progress and one day see all mankind as equal. -
Fairness,
U think homo is good,i have the right to think it is bad.U should change your name.
Ha,geys don't have equal right.Any homo person get persecuted in S'pore?That u can speak so fiercely show that geys have equal right. -
Most of the ppl think homo is wrong.But few memebers of the majority are interested in this topic.Mostly pro-homo members are interested and speak up.So the lopisded views in this topic.
-
Er... once again you miss the point.Originally posted by PRP:Most of the ppl think homo is wrong.But few memebers of the majority are interested in this topic.Mostly pro-homo members are interested and speak up.So the lopisded views in this topic.
Sure. Most people think that homosexuality is wrong but does that mean that homosexuality should be illegal?
In the US, most people think that Islam is wrong. Should that be made illegal?
Most people (if you look at web traffic stats) would say that you should be able to download copyrighted materials freely and without fear of prosecution.
Anyway, we've gone over these arguments many times already. I understand your arguments but I cannot agree with them or respect them and you would probably say the same about my arguments.
By the way, I am thinking of starting a campaign to make prayer illegal on the basis that it's delusional behavior. I'm kinda busy now though. Maybe next year. Not that I think a law like this would pass. I just want to hear what the arguments are. -
U said most of the local geys are not prosmicuous.How do u know?How do u explain much higher percentage of the local homosexuals infected with AIDS?
Because there r much more higher people who claim they r homosexual and they do not have AIDs. U want me to prove ? Okie here goes
Estimates of the incidence of homosexuality range from >1% to 10% of the population, usually finding there are slightly more gay men than lesbians
From wiki. Lets say 5% is homosexual. There r 5 billion people in tis world, tat makes it 5000,000,000. 5% is 250 million. Lets look at AIDs now.
Globally, between 33.4 and 46 million people currently live with HIV
Average it to become 39.7million
Sub-Saharan Africa remains by far the worst-affected region, with an estimated 21.6 to 27.4 million people currently living with HIV
These african r straight heterosexual people. Minus these off from the global HIV left 15.2 million.
Now how many of these 15.2 million r homosexual ? I do not know. But lets put it as half of them being homosexual which is a very unfair and high figure. Tat makes it 7.6 million
Now compare with 250 million homosexual, tat makes it less than 3% of homosexual population having AIDs.
sources r from wikipedia
I say a fraction of them r promiscuous. But u r banning all of them including the non promiscuous one. R u fair ?Pro-homo ppl say choosing between hetero and homo sex is like choosing between apple & durian.Why do they choose good fruits and not bad fruit?Any action is either good or bad.So when they compare homo sex to good fruit.They are saying homo sex is good or morally right.Yet they never say homo sex is morally right.Terribly wrong in using the analogy to explain homo sex is neither good nor bad.Why don't they just say homo sex is morally right?
U have missed the whole point. I have answered your queries but u seemed to be ignoring and running from them. Why don't u try answering them before u repeat your old points ?
03 December 2007 · 11:58 PM
Furthermore if they wanna drink some exotic drink which u think is spoilt, wat has it got to do with u ? Smelly toufu is really spoilt tofu but people like to eat it. Who r u to stop them ?
07 December 2007 · 12:13 AM
And why should homo be labelled as spoilt drink ? Wat physical justification did u use ? Then wat about monk and catholic father ? Given your analogy, they r spoilt drink too isn't it ?
07 December 2007 · 09:46 PM
Why must u try to split everything into good or bad Wat is good or not is subjective. Is drinking beer good ? Is eating oily and fatty food good ? Is taking more plastic bags during shopping good ? Is fasting to lose weight good ? Com'on... there r many things tat depend on the individual and r subjective. It is not good or bad or right or wrong, it all depend on who u rand the circumstances. In the above questions, it can be good or bad depending on the person who is doing it.
07 December 2007 · 10:20 PM
U say it is "objective" standard. Then tell me based on wat grounds u say it is wrong ? If this homosexual become happy with his partner, then it is consider good. Why force them to lead lonely and unfulfilling life ?
08 December 2007 · 09:14 PM
U know wat is the problem with your argument, u say gay sex is bad. Then u fail to say why is homosexual bad, u fail to say why heterosexual is good, u fail to explain anything. The only thing u did is simply repeat "homosexual is bad" "homosexual is wrong" and then did not do any elaboration at all. On my side, I explain my points many times and answer all the questions u asked. But wat about u ? If u want to play tis game, then I can play like u too.
Gay discrimination is bad. Gay discrimination is wrong. -
This has gone on long enough.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I have stated many times. Prove it. Otherwise on wat grounds do u have to say it is a perversion and not a natural thing ?
So no revisits of previous post.
But briefly, regarding 377A, the person who procures sexual services for clients is a _________?
I have already said it is easy to say PROVE IT, to anything that is said, and add nothing.
I have also said I do not have my own studies, or experiments, or reports.
I presume it is links you want. Or others peoples findings. These are accepted as inconclusive.
Why is homosexuality not a perversion?
Sexual intercourse is a liason between male and female. That is the basis for sexuality. This developed into courtship, intimacies, romance, foreplay. And the basis is male/female relationship . Any deviation is a perversion, even when it is harmless.
Homosexuality, the second syllably denotes sex, and it deviates from the basic male/female liason to a same gender liason. Is is a hybrid? No conclusive proof.
IMO, homosexuality is buddy or sistership that went too far. A man can have a bossum buddy, and live with him, nothing wrong with that. But to screw his arse, kiss him, and the like, and marry him! that's the perversion.
Being buddies is not. Same with sistership. Just don't cross the line.
Homosexuality is a perversion, whether you accept it or not.
The question should really be whether it should be an excepted perversion or not.
In my boyhood kampong, there were two men living together, whom I thought were brothers at that time. We did'nt think anything about them, were friends with them. Its only on hindsight that I realise they were gays. Now I don't know where they are, but if I meet them, I would greet them like any of my old kampong elderly.
At present, I personaly know of two women, who are like inseparable sisters, I and everyone else suspect they are lesbians. But we don't know, and don't care.
I say again, what they do in the privacy of their bedrooms is their own business.
And the law holds the same, unless there is a complaint.