Gays : To all Singapore Religious Leaders
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oh fark off la..
getting irritating u know....
why the hell do u keep quoting from california state rules!!???
WE WANT HOMELAND NEWS!!!!! -
Well it also depends on how you define natural.Originally posted by faroukalhadad:like i said, im not imposing my specific religion. ALL religions have specified that homosexuality is not natural.
I would agree that most religions recognize the importance of procreation. But there are religions that do not explicitly condemn homosexuality.
In Greek mythology, Zeus, Poseidon, Apollo, Orpheus, Hercules, Dionysus, Hermes, and Pan all experienced homosexual love.
Neo-pagan religions also tend to view homosexual relationships equally to heterosexual ones. -
peace please
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Capitol Resource Institute and American Free Press are both conservative right wing organisations. They are hardly impartial sources of information.Originally posted by MRidzwan:when i say it ppl dun believe me
here are the changes that will happen once the law, proposed by a lesbian and passed by governor arnold, takes effect in California on 1/1/08
Under these bills, which will go into effect on Jan. 1, 2008, the following will be eliminated from California public schools because they are deemed to have a “discriminatory
bias”:
• Textbooks and other instruction that portray marriage as only between a man and a woman;
• Textbooks and other instruction that say people are born male or female (and not in between);
• Textbooks that leave out transsexual, bisexual, and homosexual historical figures;
• Sex education and school assemblies that omit the option of hormone injections, or sex changes;
• Homecoming king and queen contests that allow only boys to run for king and girls to run for queen;
• Separate bathrooms for boys and girls.
“Mom and Dad” as well as “husband and wife” effectively have been banned from California schools. “SB 777 will result in reverse discrimination against students with religious and traditional family values,” said Meredith Tourney, legislative liaison for Capitol Resource Institute. “These students have lost their voice as the direct result of Gov. Schwarzenegger’s unbelievable decision. The terms ‘mom’ and ‘dad’ or ‘husband’ and ‘wife’ could promote discrimination against homosexuals if a same-sex couple is not also featured.
“Parents want the assurance that when their children go to school they will learn the fundamentals of reading, writing and arithmetic —not social indoctrination regarding alternative sexual lifestyles. Now that SB777 is law, schools will in fact become indoctrination centers for sexual experimentation,” she said.
“We are shocked and appalled that the governor has blatantly attacked traditional family values in California,” said Karen England, executive director of Capitol Resource Institute.
Source: http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...rzenegger.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Free_Press
The above is what they CLAIM are the implications of SB 777. Go read the text of the law. It says nothing about ending separate bathrooms. It does require non-discriminatory instructional materials but this is just one more item in addition to a long list of things they are not supposed to discriminate against. -
Sad. Reminds me of an extension of the gay condition. It is fine to tolerate, even disturb our bapoks as long as they remain in that queerly funny way. But God-forbid they try approach you as a friend, as any other normal person.
Babush. Premise gone.Originally posted by Phaze:The above is what they CLAIM are the implications of SB 777. Go read the text of the law. It says nothing about ending separate bathrooms. It does require non-discriminatory instructional materials but this is just one more item in addition to a long list of things they are not supposed to discriminate against.
"Mom" and "Dad" NOT Banned in California Schools -
Good info. Thanks.Originally posted by Gauze:Sad. Reminds me of an extension of the gay condition. It is fine to tolerate, even disturb our bapoks as long as they remain in that queerly funny way. But God-forbid they try approach you as a friend, as any other normal person.
Babush. Premise gone.
"Mom" and "Dad" NOT Banned in California Schools -
frankly speaking, the first time I read the article saying they r banning the word mom, dad etc, I already think it is bu!! sh!t. Who in the right frame of mind will ban these words ? Then how do I call my father ? The one tat cannot be named ?
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Haha.... but to be fair, the claim is not that the word "mom" or "dad" is banned. It's that "mum and dad" should not be used in the context of referring to parents. Saying "mum and dad" implies that one's parents involve one female and one male.Originally posted by stupidissmart:frankly speaking, the first time I read the article saying they r banning the word mom, dad etc, I already think it is bu!! sh!t. Who in the right frame of mind will ban these words ? Then how do I call my father ? The one tat cannot be named ?
The right wingers oppose this law so of course they will try to come up with the most ridiculous example possible so they can try to repeal it. So they claim that since the law requires language that is neutral to sexual orientation in instructional material, schools have to ensure all mention of "mum and dad" are removed. -
Originally posted by faroukalhadad:
Well, firstly, you have not justified the reasons for religious leaders to step in to reign on the "Pink Plague" as you so offensively put it. Do not merely scrape off by saying "oh ... it violates morality grounds, it disrupts family unit structure etc etc". Tell me more tangible reasons such that their actions have affected you in public. For e.g. , Perhaps did a Gay hit on you such that it scarred u? Or perhaps did u see a couple of gays behaving overtly intimate in public which you feel offended? For the record, if they merely hold hands together or give each other a momentarily kiss, that is acceptable for me;for its how even heterosexual couples behave. ( in any case, the Gays in SG are really a mature bunch, and they have more sense to keep their more intimate and raunchy gestures in the bedroom and not in public.)
The dust over the homosexual drama may have seemed settled.
But believe me when I say that the homosexual lobby is indeed very powerful and they will plan another comeback.
But what is dissapointing is the fact that the people [b]most in position to stop and educate the homosexuals, are not doing anything about it.
I'm talking about our religious leaders. Our pastors, imams, priests.
Why are our mosques, churches, temples not holding any programs when homosexuals is growing to be a big menace? They are in the best position!
Singapore has put importance on religion. It's time this sytem kicks in to salvage our youth and our future in Singapore.
I have joined the Open Entreaty to Singapore's Religious Leaders. It's time our mosques, churches temples start an education program to prevent more from suffering the homosexual mentality.
Sign the entreaty and make your voices heard.
http://muhammad-ridzwan.blogspot.com/2007/10/plague-of-pinks.html[/b]
In addition, i do not understand why you are on a witchhunt for Gays? Common, there are also other serious social problems in SG that needs attention; like for e.g. the Unusually High teenage pregnancy rates in the Muslim community.. the unusually High % of really young muslim parents (~16-18 y.o.s); the issue of pre-martial sex in the Muslim community; the issue of sexual grooming where our school girls are preys in the online virtual world; or the issue of cases where Muslim dads rape their own daughters. Or for instance, the constant abuse of maids in SG by employers; the problem of illegal workers enroaching into the HDB heartland estates in Yio Chu Kang etc; the constant plague of old aunties and uncles in rag tags scavenging the trash bins for cans to sell; or the great intellectual Gifted divide where all the talents in every cohort are only sent to RGS or RI? or the Fear of our civil service going on an auto-pilot drive (as expressed by our Senior Retired Civil servant Ngiam Tong Dow in his latest memoir), where civil servants depend merely on old and tested protocols and methods; which may lead to the Demise of SG (sharing a fate with the sparta)?
The way i see it, the Gay community has behaved appropriately and quite civilized in their verbal engagement with the Anti gay camps. In fact, their arguments are so much more intellectual, witty and backed with facts.(for e.g. Yawning Bread's blogs) Well , but i got to admit the Intrusive email sent by Mr. Al-fian to Professor Thio kind of derailed this impression. But nonetheless, even so, you got to appreciate his honesty in owning up to this issue and Mr Al-fian's subsequent intellectual responses to Dr. Thio.
You seem to forget about the middle ground of Singaporeans that exist i.e. straight folks ( like me) who simply are not affected by their presence; or in their best notion, " this is none of my business".
The religious leaders certainly have a lot more serious issues to deal with. For your argument to be balanced, well .. you got to rephrase it as "To All religious leaders, Please address all the social Ills in Singapore". BUt even this title may not be good; because I do not view the Homosexual community as a social Ill. They are still normal citizens like you or me, they pay taxes, abide almost every the law (except abide 377a i guess); and they contribute to the economy. In fact, most likely, (if you are working in the creative consultancy or media business), they are most likely your bosses. ;-) -
To new creation:
First of all thank you for replying in a polite and appropriate manner. With all the replies asking me to f*ck off and other similar juvenile behaviour, i was losing hope that the people in this forum could carry a civilised discussion. i have ignored the juvenile replies. But your reply shows that we can still discuss engagingly in an adult fashion
I take your point that there are a lot of social ills in our community.
We have teenage pregnancies, school drop outs, illegal immigrants, beggars. etc. Yes we do have these problems.
So? Does this mean that because we are ord bogged down with social ills, we should ignore the emerging ones?
All the social ills mentioned above ARE currently being engaged by our religious entities. All I'm saying is that this is a new social ill tht we should address also.
Yes I would catgorise it as a social ill.
Granted, you refuse to accept my reasons of moral collapse, family values, traditional values as my reason for considering it a social ill.
But what about the tangible ones?
Do you not consider the rise of sexually transmitted diseases tangible? Yes hetrosexual activity does spread AIDS, but do a google on the disease and you will see that homosexuals are of MORE at risk in contracting and spreading it.
Do you not consider the harassment of homosexuals tangible?
Maybe you are not the swimming kind. I swim almost everyday. Those who go down to delta swimming complex will surely know wat i mean. Also the geylang east swimming complex. me and a few apek regulr swimmers there by now would have known of a couple of men who check into the same shower cubicle in the afternoons. we have informed the life guards and police. apparently there is no law in singapore that makes for 2 men bathing together illegal so we have no case.
Yes this harrases me. cos i have to explain to my younger ones why 2 men are bathing in the same cubicle together.
Yes it harasses me when i go to orchard cineleisure level 4 toilet. ord twice i been there and u will see homosexuals misbehaving. they will enter the same cubicle, or take adjacent cubicles and perform their deeds through the empty space underneath the partition
Proof of what i say? very simple. go the the porn version of youtube (i will not type the url here, i think most know wat site im talking about)
and type "singapore" "gay"
wat you will get is various videos of homosexuals performing deeds in very, very public places like swimming pools, public toilets etc. unlike htrosexuals who do under the cover of darkness or emergency staircases, the gays have chosen to do it in full public view most of the time. thats why it harasses me for me and my youngs have witnessed these too many times.
go ahead, do search for the videos and you will know wat i mean.
in conclusion, im fine and dandy if homos want to do it in private and lead their normal lives.
but im not fine if they want to impose their lifestlye on others, by implying onto others that their lifestyle is the normal, by repealing our laws, etc. -
Agree.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Religions shouldn't be used for this purpose. However you may choose to interpret your own religion's teachings is at your own discretion. You shouldn't use your own interpretation to impose the same thinking on others, irregardless of whether they have or don't have the same religion as you. -
religious zealots can't smell their own hypocrisy if it shot out of their arses straight into their faces -
For heaven's sake, gay sex is still illegal in Singapore (remember, section 377A is still NOT repealed yet).
And I believe the lack of backlash is because it is still within the tolerance of the majority of the populace.
If a step has been taken too far, for example your California case, do you expect Singaporeans to not make any noise?
Trust us to have more common sense than the Americans.
Besides, our Constitution does not allow for universal free speech and freedom, unlike America's.
And yes, religious leaders have already stated their stance on the issue of homosexuality. There's no need to make them more busy by asking them to repeat what they have said a thousand times before.
They have better things to worry about. -
Originally posted by faroukalhadad:
dude the real menace are the ones blowing up pople and thier homes in the name of thier religion... is s'pore gahmen laws benchmarking against that of california's?? like i said you are just blowing everything out of proportion..
i am speaking not on behalf of my religion but as a singaporean who feels that ALL religions, regardless have the best position to stop this menace.
fellow singaporean, [b]read the story i gave you, and decide who will impose on who.
It's California today - tomorrow it will be your turn[/b] -
Not a menace to our society?Originally posted by mhcampboy:A child should live in a world where he/she is able to make his/her own choices!!
You keep mentioning about toilet rooms from just now.
you have yet to explain how are they a menace to out society! From the looks of it.. they have not done anything wrong....
So... EXPLAIN... u r becoming a menace urself here..
Things r not as simple as "oo we approve Gay's right, we let them haf freedom blabla.."
When "gay's" and their watever funny doctrine get approved in singapore, OUR children in the future is gotta STUDY about homosexuality in school.
THey gotta learn how homoSexual being lead their live and it is totally right !?
ITS now OKAY to "poke" someone in the @ss whereby, our society is trying sooo hard to instill correct mindset into our young generation. (eg. educate youngster on the issue of pre marritual sex and suchh)
Its is proved in lots of other more "liberal" state tat homosexual rights personal will PUSH more and more into the law, to get approval of wat they want,, their un-st8 mindset is wat they want us to forcefully Digest.
MHcampboy in the coming future when u happen to haf kids,
when ur cute lil boy or girl is gotta came home one day
" hey DAd ! i got a BF and he is just cool like me ! " said peter.
i really want to see ur "happy" face as freedom Truly comes as wat u really hope.
as u try so sacastic ly and hard to defend them now -
Hahaha that is the reason the greek's mythology is a MYTH not a Bloody hell religion.Originally posted by Phaze:Well it also depends on how you define natural.
I would agree that most religions recognize the importance of procreation. But there are religions that do not explicitly condemn homosexuality.
In Greek mythology, Zeus, Poseidon, Apollo, Orpheus, Hercules, Dionysus, Hermes, and Pan all experienced homosexual love.
Neo-pagan religions also tend to view homosexual relationships equally to heterosexual ones.
WE love homosexual but seriously not their ways.
pls it doesnt make u looks more intelligent by going against the tide.
It is defending wat is truly right tat is more impt -
looking at how u seem to think of homosexuality as poking someone in the ass, yeah, maybe education might just be a great thing
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surprised isnt it? im surprised tooOriginally posted by stupidissmart:frankly speaking, the first time I read the article saying they r banning the word mom, dad etc, I already think it is bu!! sh!t. Who in the right frame of mind will ban these words ? Then how do I call my father ? The one tat cannot be named ?
scary huh?
tat is the aftermath of letting the Wolves into the pack.
take it hard and dun aimlessly flame the poor thread starter.
it dun makes u looks any cooler. -
[quote]Originally posted by New Creation:
(In addition, i do not understand why you are on a witchhunt for Gays?)
we gotta extinguish the spark before it evloves into raging forest fire.
simple as tat...
u said there is lots of issue to cover now yess i agree.
but R u gotta let tis become a issue before u "rank" tis homosexuality issue
as an Issue u tink is an issue? -
I support u !Originally posted by faroukalhadad:To new creation:
First of all thank you for replying in a polite and appropriate manner. With all the replies asking me to f*ck off and other similar juvenile behaviour, i was losing hope that the people in this forum could carry a civilised discussion. i have ignored the juvenile replies. But your reply shows that we can still discuss engagingly in an adult fashion
I take your point that there are a lot of social ills in our community.
We have teenage pregnancies, school drop outs, illegal immigrants, beggars. etc. Yes we do have these problems.
So? Does this mean that because we are ord bogged down with social ills, we should ignore the emerging ones?
All the social ills mentioned above ARE currently being engaged by our religious entities. All I'm saying is that this is a new social ill tht we should address also.
Yes I would catgorise it as a social ill.
Granted, you refuse to accept my reasons of moral collapse, family values, traditional values as my reason for considering it a social ill.
But what about the tangible ones?
Do you not consider the rise of sexually transmitted diseases tangible? Yes hetrosexual activity does spread AIDS, but do a google on the disease and you will see that homosexuals are of MORE at risk in contracting and spreading it.
Do you not consider the harassment of homosexuals tangible?
Maybe you are not the swimming kind. I swim almost everyday. Those who go down to delta swimming complex will surely know wat i mean. Also the geylang east swimming complex. me and a few apek regulr swimmers there by now would have known of a couple of men who check into the same shower cubicle in the afternoons. we have informed the life guards and police. apparently there is no law in singapore that makes for 2 men bathing together illegal so we have no case.
Yes this harrases me. cos i have to explain to my younger ones why 2 men are bathing in the same cubicle together.
Yes it harasses me when i go to orchard cineleisure level 4 toilet. ord twice i been there and u will see homosexuals misbehaving. they will enter the same cubicle, or take adjacent cubicles and perform their deeds through the empty space underneath the partition
Proof of what i say? very simple. go the the porn version of youtube (i will not type the url here, i think most know wat site im talking about)
and type "singapore" "gay"
wat you will get is various videos of homosexuals performing deeds in very, very public places like swimming pools, public toilets etc. unlike htrosexuals who do under the cover of darkness or emergency staircases, the gays have chosen to do it in full public view most of the time. thats why it harasses me for me and my youngs have witnessed these too many times.
go ahead, do search for the videos and you will know wat i mean.
in conclusion, im fine and dandy if homos want to do it in private and lead their normal lives.
but im not fine if they want to impose their lifestlye on others, by implying onto others that their lifestyle is the normal, by repealing our laws, etc. -
Originally posted by zexel:I support u !
but hmm why u go find such things leh
disgusting eh -
Icic, i get your point now. I am totally unaware of such public intrusions of homosexual sex. I thought they have better sense to do it in their own private space. This is indeed disturbing especially in the swimming complex's changing room. Yah; i guess there are indeed renegade gays couples who like hetero-couples also like outdoor sex (e.g. in cinema, public toilets, staircase landing, swimming pool etc etc) just to spice up their sex life. Then your topic should focus on addressing the emerging threat & social Ills of such Renegade Homosexuals then. It can't be an All out assault on all gays then; since there are gays who respect public space; and they are just trying to breathe and survive in SG society.Originally posted by faroukalhadad:To new creation:
Do you not consider the harassment of homosexuals tangible?
Maybe you are not the swimming kind. I swim almost everyday. Those who go down to delta swimming complex will surely know wat i mean. Also the geylang east swimming complex. me and a few apek regulr swimmers there by now would have known of a couple of men who check into the same shower cubicle in the afternoons. we have informed the life guards and police. apparently there is no law in singapore that makes for 2 men bathing together illegal so we have no case.
Yes this harrases me. cos i have to explain to my younger ones why 2 men are bathing in the same cubicle together.
Yes it harasses me when i go to orchard cineleisure level 4 toilet. ord twice i been there and u will see homosexuals misbehaving. they will enter the same cubicle, or take adjacent cubicles and perform their deeds through the empty space underneath the partition
Proof of what i say? very simple. go the the porn version of youtube (i will not type the url here, i think most know wat site im talking about)
and type "singapore" "gay"
wat you will get is various videos of homosexuals performing deeds in very, very public places like swimming pools, public toilets etc. unlike htrosexuals who do under the cover of darkness or emergency staircases, the gays have chosen to do it in full public view most of the time. thats why it harasses me for me and my youngs have witnessed these too many times.
but im not fine if they want to impose their lifestlye on others, by implying onto others that their lifestyle is the normal, by repealing our laws, etc.
With respect to the gay videos, frankly, if the persons in the video can be identified (i mean the faces are not covered), you could lodge a police report, and investigations will step in. Because, usually, the police will not act until someone makes an official police report about such videos. I guess, it would be right to reign in on these renagade homosexuals bah; in order not to jeopardize the achievements made so far by the pro-gay camp.
Yes, it is indeed an nice intellectual exchange of thoughts with you. Are you a parent? If so, i can understand the fears you have especially if you worry that your little boys in the swimming pool complex's changing room may be potentially sexual preys of these renagade homosexuals. -
To draw this analogy betrays one's profound ignorance on the subject of human sexuality.
While non-gamblers can become gamblers, heterosexuals can never become homosexuals, or vice versa.
People can be influenced into picking up the habit of gambling, hence the rational for discouraging this practice.
There is no way one's sexuality can be altered by influence from people of different sexuality.
This is a fundamental reason why the homosexuality being bad influence argument cannot stand. Anyone who invokes this argument starts to look hopelessly stupid.Originally posted by Chin Eng:on the same note.... what has gamblers done to you???
your parents were gamblers? you were a gambler?
and ...... where to buy your book hah? -
Repealing S377a only removes the unfair discrimination against homosexuals. Since you are find and dandy with what homosexuals do in private, you should support repealing such a discriminatory law. Your sensibilities are still protected against existing laws against public indecency.Originally posted by faroukalhadad:To new creation:
But what about the tangible ones?
Do you not consider the rise of sexually transmitted diseases tangible? Yes hetrosexual activity does spread AIDS, but do a google on the disease and you will see that homosexuals are of MORE at risk in contracting and spreading it.
[/quote]
Outside of the western world, AIDS is a heterosexual disease. But anyway, let's see why gay men are at higher risk of contracting and spreading AIDS.
Firstly men tend to be more promiscuous. So there's a higher chance of a promiscuous man finding another promiscuous man.
Secondly, anal sex is more likely to result in transmission of HIV. Heterosexual couples who engage in anal sex are also at higher risk.
There are ways of reducing the risk. Eg. Use of condoms, going for regular HIV screening, staying with a single partner, etc.
But anyway, if the argument here is you are opposed to homosexuality because of AIDS, I suppose you are okay with lesbians? Lesbians tend to be less promiscuous and they have a lower chance of spreading HIV.
Come to think of it, maybe we should ban going out in the sun. People who go out in the sun have a higher chance of getting skin cancer. Or perhaps we should ban swimming as well. Not only do swimmings get greater exposure to the sun, they have a higher chance of drowning as well! Horrors!
*sarcasm on*
Yes this harrases me. cos i have to explain to my younger ones why 2 men are bathing in the same cubicle together.
I feel harassed as well when I see fat women wear tube tops. I mean, I have nothing against fat people, I'm kinda overweight myself, but I find it very hard to explain to my niece why the lady over there looks like the Michelin Man.
I also feel harassed when I see people wearing a burka. How can I tell if it's not a terrorist disguise? There has been many documented cases of people attempting to use the burka as a disguise.
*sarcasm off*
But let me give you some hints on how to explain to your younger ones.
You could say something like, "they are just very good friends" or "maybe they find it easier to share soap and shampoo."
I mean if your younger ones ask where did they come from, you're not going to tell them "daddy took out his penis and put it in your mommy's vagina and stroked it in and out until he ejaculated semen" right?
You visit the porn version of youtube? I commend you for sacrificing yourself by exposing yourself to such filth so you can warn us of the dangers of homosexuality.
Yes it harasses me when i go to orchard cineleisure level 4 toilet. ord twice i been there and u will see homosexuals misbehaving. they will enter the same cubicle, or take adjacent cubicles and perform their deeds through the empty space underneath the partition
Proof of what i say? very simple. go the the porn version of youtube (i will not type the url here, i think most know wat site im talking about)
and type "singapore" "gay"
wat you will get is various videos of homosexuals performing deeds in very, very public places like swimming pools, public toilets etc. unlike htrosexuals who do under the cover of darkness or emergency staircases, the gays have chosen to do it in full public view most of the time. thats why it harasses me for me and my youngs have witnessed these too many times.
You know what? Public indecency is already illegal. If people (homosexual or heterosexual) perform 'deeds' in very public places, by all means, make a police report. The issue here is discrimination. The laws should apply equally to all regardless of sexual orientation.
But of course, I wouldn't make a police report. I would whip out my phone and record a video and upload it to that porn version of youtube once I find it.
I'm glad we agree on this!
in conclusion, im fine and dandy if homos want to do it in private and lead their normal lives.
[quote]
but im not fine if they want to impose their lifestlye on others, by implying onto others that their lifestyle is the normal, by repealing our laws, etc.
Remember, S377a is nothing more than a declaration that homosexual acts are illegal. But it should not be any more illegal than heterosexual acts and that was the crux of the debate. We have repealed the laws against oral and anal sex which were equally unenforceable . We just need to take it one step further. -
Religion is, let me quote Richard Dawkins, a "mind-shrinking falsehood". Religious fanatics are narrow-minded (literally) and irrational and they encourage hatred towards other human beings who are perfectly innocuous. They are the real danger to society and they must be stopped.