Gays : To all Singapore Religious Leaders
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Er... you are misguided. All religions are myths.Originally posted by zexel:Hahaha that is the reason the greek's mythology is a MYTH not a Bloody hell religion.
WE love homosexual but seriously not their ways.
pls it doesnt make u looks more intelligent by going against the tide.
It is defending wat is truly right tat is more impt
What we know as greek mythology today was the religion of their times.
Perhaps I should have said ancient greek religion then.
I am defending what is truly right.
I am happy to engage in open debate and am totally open to changing my viewpoint if valid points are raise. I'm not taking this view just because I like to argue (I do like to argue though hurhur) but because in my view, this is the position that makes the most sense.
I only look more intelligent because I am. :p
And by the way, I'm not gay. Though perhaps it's coz I've not met the right man. -
So does Dr. Paul Cameron, who did a study about homosexual behaviour looks hopelessly stupid?Originally posted by dreameryb:To draw this analogy betrays one's profound ignorance on the subject of human sexuality.
While non-gamblers can become gamblers, heterosexuals can never become homosexuals, or vice versa.
People can be influenced into picking up the habit of gambling, hence the rational for discouraging this practice.
There is no way one's sexuality can be altered by influence from people of different sexuality.
This is a fundamental reason why the homosexuality being bad influence argument cannot stand. Anyone who invokes this argument starts to look hopelessly stupid.
His study points to seven evidence to show that homosexual behavious is learned, meaning its the environment and experimantation that causes someone to be hetro or homo - not biological
http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet1.html -
Originally posted by faroukalhadad:
I don't know if Dr Paul Cameron is hopelessly stupid, but he is bigoted.
So does Dr. Paul Cameron, who did a study about homosexual behaviour looks hopelessly stupid?
His study points to seven evidence to show that homosexual behavious is [b]learned, meaning its the environment and experimantation that causes someone to be hetro or homo - not biological
http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet1.html[/b]
The Family Research Institute is another right wing organisation that is trying to push the anti-gay agenda. His 'research' flies in the face of much more research that shows evidence that homosexual tendencies are biological.
He has also been found to be intellectually dishonest.
"In 1985, the American Sociological Association (ASA) adopted a resolution which asserted that "Dr. Paul Cameron has consistently misinterpreted and misrepresented sociological research on sexuality, homosexuality, and lesbianism" and noted that "Dr. Paul Cameron has repeatedly campaigned for the abrogation of the civil rights of lesbians and gay men, substantiating his call on the basis of his distorted interpretation of this research."7 The resolution formally charged an ASA committee with the task of "critically evaluating and publicly responding to the work of Dr. Paul Cameron.""
And,
"Cameron's credibility was also questioned outside of academia. In his written opinion in Baker v. Wade (1985), Judge Buchmeyer of the U.S. District Court of Dallas referred to "Cameron's sworn statement that 'homosexuals abuse children at a proportionately greater incident than do heterosexuals,'" and concluded that "Dr. Paul Cameron...has himself made misrepresentations to this Court" and that "There has been no fraud or misrepresentations except by Dr. Cameron""
Finally,
""That's only the beginning. In a 1981 debate, Cameron claimed a 4-year-old boy had been sexually mutilated in a Lincoln, Neb., mall rest room as part of a "homosexual act" — but police in Lincoln said no such crime had occurred.
"He told the 1985 Conservative Political Action Committee conference that "extermination of homosexuals" might be needed in the next three to four years. He has advocated tattooing AIDS patients in the face, and banishment to a former leper colony for any patient who resisted. He has called for gay bars to be closed and gays to be registered with the government."
[Note that he claims that the 'extermination' quote was lifted out of context - standard fare. Said that it was only a 'suggestion']"
Wow... he's not just a bigot. He's a dangerous, extremist bigot. -
Farouk, or whatever you wanna be called.
Are you a homophobic? Cos you display very classic signs of a homophobic.
I have my phobia too. Phobia of various religions trying to dictate our way of life. I don't have a name for that yet.
What you are experiencing is a very extreme dislike for homosexual activites. You think about these homosexual individuals, mostly male I can see, going down on each other, and you think about it every now and then, and it overwelms your mind, therefore I can understand your rantings in this forum.
I don't know why your activities seem to bring you to close proximities with these people that you dislike. I have been an avid swimmer myself, I know avid swimmers. They do not talk about these things to me. You're the first.
On the note that life discontinues because of homosexual activities: think about this, the current population explosion is causing serious environmental problems on our tiny planet. I think homosexuality is actually a natural numbers controlling mechanism. Don't worry, I believe you are spared the fate, as long as you don't think about men going down on each other so often. Concentrate on your strokes in the pool please. You do go there to swim, not frolick in the water with your buddies, right?
On your move to rally the various religions to actively discourage homosexual activites: firstly, there are too many problems existing between various religions, problems that get people killed and families torn apart. I think priority should be accorded to resolving these problems, let not the joys of your fellow brothers be a distraction in your quest for world peace. Remember: the enemy of your enemy is your friend as long as the enemy exists.
I've been to California. Have you?
And er.....you really think any serious religious leaders will talk in sgforums? You've got to be kidding.
Lastly, I think the gay community has plenty of creative folk who actively contributes to our country's economy and culture, who spends their time constructively instead of acting like little children banding together to single out a kid that seems different from the rest just so that they can have some fun together.
Disgusting. Absolutely shameful. -
This is the first two paragraphs from Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Cameron] on this particular individual you are talking about. Do you honestly we should take his view seriously, given that he is discredited in the US and Canada?
Paul Drummond Cameron (born November 9, 1939) is an American psychologist and sex researcher. While employed at various institutions including the University of Nebraska he conducted research on passive smoking and several other topics, but he is best known today for his controversial research on homosexuality. After a successful 1982 campaign against a gay rights proposal in Lincoln, Nebraska, he established the Institute for the Scientific Investigation of Sexuality, now known as the Family Research Institute (FRI). As FRI's chairman, Cameron has written papers associating homosexuality with perpetration of child sexual abuse and reduced life expectancy.
In 1983, the American Psychological Association decided to drop Cameron from membership for non-cooperation with an ethics investigation, although by his own account he had resigned from the organization the previous year. His work has been repudiated for alleged misrepresentation of data by the American Sociological Association and Canadian Psychological AssociationOriginally posted by faroukalhadad:
So does Dr. Paul Cameron, who did a study about homosexual behaviour looks hopelessly stupid?
His study points to seven evidence to show that homosexual behavious is [b]learned, meaning its the environment and experimantation that causes someone to be hetro or homo - not biological
http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet1.html[/b] -
Hey, farouk, you might wanna mention Dr Dobson as well. Since you people seem like you are in the same league. You do read his column on TODAY paper, don't you? Family man?
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Christian "scientists" have always been willing to place their religion before science. Furthermore they tend to overreach thinking that their PhD makes the an expert on every subject even though they barely have a grasp of their own. That's the problem when they let ideology and dogma overtake their own.
Just to name a few,
William Dembski
Michael Behe
Guillermo Gonzalez
Kent Hovind (though his PhD is fake but he calls himself Dr.) -
'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'
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While I agree with the sentiment behind the statment, it is still another ridiculous religious saying.Originally posted by dxdx:'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'
Basically means no one can punish anyone. -
Someone pass me some stones.Originally posted by dxdx:'let he who is without sin cast the first stone' -
I think men shouldn't be bigots and discriminate against other people. Furthermore I think we should not use a region or a few black sheeps and stereotype them to be common to every body in the group. Just because california is liberal doesn't mean allowing gays=letting guys see my daughter naked. Furthermore there has been signs tat show gays r nature and inborn.
If we want to be bigots and discriminate against people, then frankly speaking a bigot person who discriminate muslim can say tat Muslim r terrorists and should be outlawed because they r a menace to society (by killing) and he can list out a lot of region tat show tis problem like thailand, indonesia, phillipines, USA, spain, india, parkistan, united kingdom, russia, isreal, iraq, afghanistan, turkey and even nearly singapore.
And I will tell him he is wrong, he is a bigot, discriminate people, stereotype a group of people based on some black sheeps, do nto listen to other side of story, promote hatred and intolerance and should be caught and jailed. So r u tis type of person yourself ? -
I love this forum.
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Right!Originally posted by faroukalhadad:like i said, people always get lullabied into a false sense of "live and let live" until the consequences come up in your face.
live and let live?
thats wat they said too in california. they tolerated the gays.
and now, their teenage daugthers will have to get naked in front of boys, and they cannot stop it.
Live & let live?Who don't let geys to live?Who can control what geys do privately? -
The forvorite argument from geys is there is no right and wrong about homo.
What action has no right & wroing,legal and illegal,good & bad?NONE! -
Unfortunately, Singapore Penal Code has control over what gays do privately. If someone reports loud moanings from 2 males disturbing them, the police has the right to investigate and if there is homosexual activity going, arrest said perpertrators.Originally posted by PRP:Right!
Live & let live?Who don't let geys to live?Who can control what geys do privately? -
Originally posted by faroukalhadad:
Yes, homo ppl need help to kick their habit.If drug addicts can kick their habit,I believe geys can kick their habit too.One problem is whether there are counseling centres for them to go.
The dust over the homosexual drama may have seemed settled.
But believe me when I say that the homosexual lobby is indeed very powerful and they will plan another comeback.
But what is dissapointing is the fact that the people [b]most in position to stop and educate the homosexuals, are not doing anything about it.
I'm talking about our religious leaders. Our pastors, imams, priests.
Why are our mosques, churches, temples not holding any programs when homosexuals is growing to be a big menace? They are in the best position!
Singapore has put importance on religion. It's time this sytem kicks in to salvage our youth and our future in Singapore.
I have joined the Open Entreaty to Singapore's Religious Leaders. It's time our mosques, churches temples start an education program to prevent more from suffering the homosexual mentality.
Sign the entreaty and make your voices heard.
http://muhammad-ridzwan.blogspot.com/2007/10/plague-of-pinks.html[/b] -
And do you have any in mind?Originally posted by PRP:Yes, homo ppl need help to kick their habit.If drug addicts can kick their habit,I believe geys can kick their habit too.One problem is whether there are counseling centres for them to go. -
Your opinion that sexuality is a habit, is unfortunately not empirical enough to be proven as well.Originally posted by PRP:Yes, homo ppl need help to kick their habit.If drug addicts can kick their habit,I believe geys can kick their habit too.One problem is whether there are counseling centres for them to go.
Open your eyes. -
how have their "habit" bothered you? they harassed you or what ? maybe you have have been thinking too much .. maybe there should have some counselling centres for the homophobics ..Originally posted by PRP:Yes, homo ppl need help to kick their habit.If drug addicts can kick their habit,I believe geys can kick their habit too.One problem is whether there are counseling centres for them to go. -
my mother is a buddhist she say buddhism is not a religion, but rather, its more like a teaching.. like confusciusnism [dunno how to spell that.. the teachings of confuscius]Originally posted by Phaze:i didn't identify you guys coz you hadn't posted yet. :p
Actually January also doesn't like Christianity. He just tends to pick on Buddhism more because of the claim that buddhism is not a religion. -
erm i dun see how allowing guys into the female changing room will cause any difference over here in singapore..Originally posted by faroukalhadad:Tell me how am i frightening people? It is already happening?
http://muhammad-ridzwan.blogspot.com/2007/10/plague-of-pinks.html
even without the article, surely you would have heard of it? It's starting really soon in California. This 1st January to be precise
most of the females i noe dun change outside the cubicles in the female changing rooms
and there are many females tt i noe of who change in the presence of the guys, in classrooms.
how frightening is that?
i actually think its a good idea to allow females into the gents..
if only they'd have it here in sg... they can have the cubicles nearer to the entrance n the urinal further in hidden by 1 wall or sth -
doin the act in public whether homo or hetero... still illegalOriginally posted by faroukalhadad:To new creation:
First of all thank you for replying in a polite and appropriate manner. With all the replies asking me to f*ck off and other similar juvenile behaviour, i was losing hope that the people in this forum could carry a civilised discussion. i have ignored the juvenile replies. But your reply shows that we can still discuss engagingly in an adult fashion
I take your point that there are a lot of social ills in our community.
We have teenage pregnancies, school drop outs, illegal immigrants, beggars. etc. Yes we do have these problems.
So? Does this mean that because we are ord bogged down with social ills, we should ignore the emerging ones?
All the social ills mentioned above ARE currently being engaged by our religious entities. All I'm saying is that this is a new social ill tht we should address also.
Yes I would catgorise it as a social ill.
Granted, you refuse to accept my reasons of moral collapse, family values, traditional values as my reason for considering it a social ill.
But what about the tangible ones?
Do you not consider the rise of sexually transmitted diseases tangible? Yes hetrosexual activity does spread AIDS, but do a google on the disease and you will see that homosexuals are of MORE at risk in contracting and spreading it.
Do you not consider the harassment of homosexuals tangible?
Maybe you are not the swimming kind. I swim almost everyday. Those who go down to delta swimming complex will surely know wat i mean. Also the geylang east swimming complex. me and a few apek regulr swimmers there by now would have known of a couple of men who check into the same shower cubicle in the afternoons. we have informed the life guards and police. apparently there is no law in singapore that makes for 2 men bathing together illegal so we have no case.
Yes this harrases me. cos i have to explain to my younger ones why 2 men are bathing in the same cubicle together.
Yes it harasses me when i go to orchard cineleisure level 4 toilet. ord twice i been there and u will see homosexuals misbehaving. they will enter the same cubicle, or take adjacent cubicles and perform their deeds through the empty space underneath the partition
Proof of what i say? very simple. go the the porn version of youtube (i will not type the url here, i think most know wat site im talking about)
and type "singapore" "gay"
wat you will get is various videos of homosexuals performing deeds in very, very public places like swimming pools, public toilets etc. unlike htrosexuals who do under the cover of darkness or emergency staircases, the gays have chosen to do it in full public view most of the time. thats why it harasses me for me and my youngs have witnessed these too many times.
go ahead, do search for the videos and you will know wat i mean.
in conclusion, im fine and dandy if homos want to do it in private and lead their normal lives.
but im not fine if they want to impose their lifestlye on others, by implying onto others that their lifestyle is the normal, by repealing our laws, etc. -
Homosexualy activity in private that is consensual is not a social ill. Going to war over oil using religion as a reason.......that goes BEYOND social ill. Address that when you have the time.
What family values can you talk about when the very people who advocate your so-called "family values" are the very culprits who effectively brought death and destruction upon millions? -
If homosexuals can lobby for government to change the laws in their favour, so can people lobby otherwise. Whats the argument here sia. Its not that I hate homosexuals or what, but wah lau, u lobby for something in your favour then people object, you call them names, call them bigots. Like that not fair leh. You must accept that people will object one mah since you all decide to publicly lobby for your rights. The law was there for a purpose in the first place. How can you expect everyone in this world to accept everything just because of "This is the modern world so dun be so old fashion can" kind of arguments.
But for those who are lobbying against homosexuals, you all also must think lah. Homosexuals have their rights. I am a christian and I am against homosexuality and all my homo frens know it. But I dun think that should stop me from going out with them, chilling out with them, treating them as equals in work and in leisure. So if you are objecting because you think they are a bunch of faggots, more likely you are the maggot here lah. 
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There is a difference between changing a law in one's favour, and taking away an unjust and unnecessary law. THAT, is the argument.Originally posted by gasband:If homosexuals can lobby for government to change the laws in their favour, so can people lobby otherwise. Whats the argument here sia.