Did China learn from mistakes made by S'pore Temasek ?
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In establishing China Investment Corporation {CIC} - which is an equivalent to Singapore Government owned investment company - Temasek Holdings, has China learnt the horribly expensive lessons that Temasek has paid in buying into the sovereign assets of other countries ?
CIC says it won't invest in sensitive industries
Investment - 9 November 2007
China Investment Corp (CIC) will not buy into foreign oil, airline or telephone companies, AP reported. Vice finance minister Li Yong made the remarks yesterday at a conference in Beijing. A third of CIC's funds will be invested abroad, and another third will be used to buy Central Huijin, which controls state-owned banks. The rest of the funds would be spent on Agricultural Bank of China and China Development Bank. The bank acquisitions are likely to be profitable for CIC. These are the first public comments by Beijing on the investment strategy of CIC, China's US$200 billion sovereign wealth fund. However, Li's remarks were not confirmed by either the Finance Ministry or CIC.
Was Temasek's overseas investments - to own sensitive telecomunnication entities that possess satelite assets - a strategic move based on commercial principles, without any political assessments or guidance from the political leadership from the Government that owns Temasek ?
There were so many warning signs after receiving negative responses even from countries that practise supposed ''open'' economies - especially when there were howls of negative nationalistic reactions to Temasek's offers to takeover telcos from Australia to Europe, as well as strategic defense related industries in the USA.
Can the Singapore Government divorce its responsibilities from Temasek's mistakes ?
We are currently seeing the fallout of Temasek's grab in sovereign assets of Indonesia and Thailand, while at the same time its gung-ho forays to outbid others to gain majority stakes in foreign banks are causing dent that will amount to at least '30 to 50 percent' of the original values paid.
With China picking up the lessons paid for by Temasek, will our own self-acclaimed elites even bother to learn, or will they resort to selling other assets, so as to fill up the big hole in the accounts and show positive results ?
Similar detailed report of the news item can be seen in the following site:
Taiwan News Online, with the same copyright report being published in the Singapore Straits Times, Friday, 9 November 2007. -
It is more like China and Dubai copying the success of Singapore GIC and Temasek, by establishing their own CIC and Dubai Istithmar respectively.
Mistake? every investment companies will sure encounter failed investment thats why they never put all their money into one basket.
Btw, did Singtel, Keppelcorp, ComfortDelgro, Capitaland, Kepland failed in their overseas investment? -
ComfortDelGro is not inside Temasek's portfolio.. It's SMRT, and yes SMRT has 0% income from overseasOriginally posted by Gazelle:It is more like China and Dubai copying the success of Singapore GIC and Temasek, by establishing their own CIC and Dubai Istithmar respectively.
Mistake? every investment companies will sure encounter failed investment thats why they never put all their money into one basket.
Btw, did Singtel, Keppelcorp, ComfortDelgro, Capitaland, Kepland failed in their overseas investment?
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Think Atobe is trying to say that China is avoiding investments that raped temasek (i.e. Telcos) and they are assuring U.S that they are not going to buy up their companies and instead focus a large part on domestic businesses.
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Sad to say, majority of Temasek's overseas investments made losses.Originally posted by Gazelle:It is more like China and Dubai copying the success of Singapore GIC and Temasek, by establishing their own CIC and Dubai Istithmar respectively.
Mistake? every investment companies will sure encounter failed investment thats why they never put all their money into one basket.
Btw, did Singtel, Keppelcorp, ComfortDelgro, Capitaland, Kepland failed in their overseas investment? -
So far...Originally posted by maurizio13:Sad to say, majority of Temasek's overseas investments made losses.
Shin Corp making loss,
Barclays as well...
What else ? -
Flaw explanation. Pls try harder.....Originally posted by Gazelle:It is more like China and Dubai copying the success of Singapore GIC and Temasek, by establishing their own CIC and Dubai Istithmar respectively.
Mistake? every investment companies will sure encounter failed investment thats why they never put all their money into one basket.
Btw, did Singtel, Keppelcorp, ComfortDelgro, Capitaland, Kepland failed in their overseas investment? -
Most of Temasex's investments overseas are overpaid for, obviously someone doesn't know finance and economics.Originally posted by Atobe:In establishing China Investment Corporation {CIC} - which is an equivalent to Singapore Government owned investment company - Temasek Holdings, has China learnt the horribly expensive lessons that Temasek has paid in buying into the sovereign assets of other countries ?
Was Temasek's overseas investments - to own sensitive telecomunnication entities that possess satelite assets - a strategic move based on commercial principles, without any political assessments or guidance from the political leadership from the Government that owns Temasek ?
There were so many warning signs after receiving negative responses even from countries that practise supposed ''open'' economies - especially when there were howls of negative nationalistic reactions to Temasek's offers to takeover telcos from Australia to Europe, as well as strategic defense related industries in the USA.
Can the Singapore Government divorce its responsibilities from Temasek's mistakes ?
We are currently seeing the fallout of Temasek's grab in sovereign assets of Indonesia and Thailand, while at the same time its gung-ho forays to outbid others to gain majority stakes in foreign banks are causing dent that will amount to at least '30 to 50 percent' of the original values paid.
With China picking up the lessons paid for by Temasek, will our own self-acclaimed elites even bother to learn, or will they resort to selling other assets, so as to fill up the big hole in the accounts and show positive results ?
Similar detailed report of the news item can be seen in the following site:
Taiwan News Online, with the same copyright report being published in the Singapore Straits Times, Friday, 9 November 2007. -
Global Crossing. This overseas acquisition has never made any profits since it was taken over. Every 6 months you just see losses and losses. I think they took over this company for at least 500 million (guessing, can't remember the exact figures, could be more) some 4 years back. They thought they could turn around a chapter 11 company (bankrupt) within 1-2 years, but they failed miserably. They can't even maintain overseas companies with healthy profits to sustain the share price they paid for.Originally posted by kramnave:So far...
Shin Corp making loss,
Barclays as well...
What else ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Crossing -
In the long run you wouldn't know if its profitable or not right ? Are they buying and hoping to sell it in the short run just for capital gains...anyway this argument seems familiar..Originally posted by maurizio13:Most of Temasex's investments overseas are overpaid for, obviously someone doesn't know finance and economics. -
A famous saying in economics, "in the long run, we will all be dead".Originally posted by kramnave:In the long run you wouldn't know if its profitable or not right ? Are they buying and hoping to sell it in the short run just for capital gains...anyway this argument seems familiar.. -
Check out who is the main shareholders in Comfortdelgro.Originally posted by sbst275:ComfortDelGro is not inside Temasek's portfolio.. It's SMRT, and yes SMRT has 0% income from overseas
http://www.comfortdelgro.com.sg/files/fin/areports/attachment/131.pdf -
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Here are a list of companies which Temasek has directly interests. Maybe TS or his kah kia M13, would like to run through them and tell us which investment is not making money.
PT Bank Danamon Indonesia
ICICI Bank
PT Bank Internasional Indonesia
China Construction Bank
DBS Group Holdings
E.Sun Financial Holding Company
Standard Chartered
Bank of China
Hana Financial Group
MediaCorp
Singapore Telecommunications
Singapore Technologies Telemedia
Shin Corporation
PSA International
Singapore Airlines
Neptune Orient Lines
SMRT Corporation
Mapletree Investments
CapitaLand
Singapore Technologies Engineering
Keppel Corporation
SembCorp Industries
PowerSeraya
Singapore Power
Senoko Power
Tuas Power
Chartered Semiconductor Manufacturing
STATS ChipPAC
Wildlife Reserves Singapore
Fraser and Neave
Singapore Food Industries -
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Hehehe.....Originally posted by Gazelle:Here are a list of companies which Temasek has directly interests. Maybe TS or his kah kia M13, would like to run through them and tell us which investment is not making money.
PT Bank Danamon Indonesia
ICICI Bank
PT Bank Internasional Indonesia
China Construction Bank
DBS Group Holdings
E.Sun Financial Holding Company
Standard Chartered
Bank of China
Hana Financial Group
MediaCorp
Singapore Telecommunications
Singapore Technologies Telemedia
Shin Corporation
PSA International
Singapore Airlines
Neptune Orient Lines
SMRT Corporation
Mapletree Investments
CapitaLand
Singapore Technologies Engineering
Keppel Corporation
SembCorp Industries
PowerSeraya
Singapore Power
Senoko Power
Tuas Power
Chartered Semiconductor Manufacturing
STATS ChipPAC
Wildlife Reserves Singapore
Fraser and Neave
Singapore Food Industries
Maybe you can show us which of those companies you listed made exceptional profits?
Majority of the companies making good profits are those charging Singaporeans high prices, that's why they can make exceptional profits to cover up the losses from their overseas investments.
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You have been doing that each time you open your mouth, from your very first postOriginally posted by maurizio13: -
A typical cop out when you cannot deal with the factsOriginally posted by maurizio13:Hehehe.....
Maybe you can show us which of those companies you listed made exceptional profits?
Majority of the companies making good profits are those charging Singaporeans high prices, that's why they can make exceptional profits to cover up the losses from their overseas investments. -
Temasek had a stake in Barclays. They invited China to participate in July. Recently there was a report in the Guardian that said a British bank made an emergency loan from the Bank of England.Originally posted by Atobe:
With China picking up the lessons paid for by Temasek, will our own self-acclaimed elites even bother to learn, or will they resort to selling other assets, so as to fill up the big hole in the accounts and show positive results ?
Similar detailed report of the news item can be seen in the following site:
Taiwan News Online, with the same copyright report being published in the Singapore Straits Times, Friday, 9 November 2007.
If you say that China learnt the lesson, I think they have a few more lessons to learn. The first must be "Not to trust Temasek and the PM's husband in ventures outside of Singapore."
The way Singapore handled the CAO fiasco probably gave the Chinese confidence enough to join them in their Barclays fiasco.
What China did not know was that, with their political connections and the culture of fear in Singapore, the Temasek cowboys and cowgirl could do wonders... outside of Singapore, they are only good enough to tend to cows.
see: Open your books, Temasek Holdings -
oh... "British bank made an emergency loan from the Bank of England", that bank, the British press widely considers to be Barclays.
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Is this going to be another of your name calling and insult session?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:You have been doing that each time you open your mouth, from your very first post
In the past you have not been able to substantiate your arguments and lost to me. So you bear a grudge against me. Are you here to explain all your previous threads where you lost to me, or, are you here to contribute to discussions in this thread? -
M13, in order for you to make the following statement, I am sure you must have some clue about what you are talking isnt it? hence why are you asking me to clean up your shi.t?Originally posted by maurizio13:Hehehe.....
Maybe you can show us which of those companies you listed made exceptional profits?
Majority of the companies making good profits are those charging Singaporeans high prices, that's why they can make exceptional profits to cover up the losses from their overseas investments.
Or are you just firing blanks and making lots of noise?
""M13 : Sad to say, majority of Temasek's overseas investments made losses"" -
Gazelle, you long time associate showed us facts?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:A typical cop out when you cannot deal with the facts
He just posted lots of companies, with no information about profit and losses for the companies.
Maybe he can substantiate his post by posting these companies and the main country where the profits are derived.
