China advocating more democracy and accountability than SGP
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Originally posted by reddressman:is that foto true of Gazelle?
I am a great fan of his. Gazelle, I am with you even if only mushroom and tge are you or on your side ok ?
you look so yendao.
back to the main story...
how democracy is advocated is no use unless the PEOPLE accept and enforce it.
one can talk until the moo moo comes home and pee, as long as the PEOPLE is illiterate, uneducated, naive about Democracy, it will always remain as a MYTH.
Time to call in the MYTH Busters! Many people here know that we are deprived of democracy but this don't bother them so long they have the roof over their heads and regular income. This leads to PAP becoming bad to worse and worse to worst. Many simply bochup ah! Hope one day something happen to wake these people up.
Gazelle, I bluff u. -
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=274332&page=0Originally posted by qlqq9:Oh dear, I thought that Gazelle has repented, to my disappointment he has not. Perhaps, he could write a book on panty sniffing. -
china have been telling people it will relaxed its currency control for donkey years but it is still the same. Believe it only when they have done it. If talking is good enough, then LHL also say he will want to open up the politics of singapore for some years as well
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Complements are returned .... you are more cynical than anyone can possibly be...Originally posted by the Bear:you are more naive than i thought possible
Wilson Mizner {1876 - 1933} once said - ''I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education''.
Will you educate yourself as much as you would doubt the events as it unfold ?
It is quite obvious from the events that unfold in your postings during these recent days - your brain never stop working from the moment you are awake until you attempt to open up your thoughts in public.
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Unfortunately, as a politician he is already barred.Originally posted by kramnave:One mistake is enough to kill politically. Thereafter he will be judged along the same lines. It doesn't help that all of his high profile actions and accusations are questionable.
It can be said that his bravery and sacrifices are admirable. He fights for democracy and human rights and it doesn't matter what happens or who is harmed along that process. He has some success as an activist with the award he won but he has failed as a politician.
Admirable activist, deplorable politician and we vote for politicians, not activists.
He can only be an activist till he is absolved by the Official Assignee, and only when it is in the interest of the Powers that be - to allow him to be absolved.
Is he seeking for your vote ?
Can he ? -
Only a crap sniffer knows what a wanker does ?Originally posted by Gazelle:Atobe, are you a political science student trying to reinvent you own China? Or are you wanking because you are too lonely?
If China push for democracy I can assure you that in times of recession, China will disintegrate into pieces and Taiwan will gain independence.
Have you been lonely to understand that it will lead to wanking ?
Not enough crap from your friend's sisters that you have to seek out fairies - who still cannot produce enough crap for you to sniff at ?
You must be lonely and bored to appear in every thread to be a wh.ore as well as an asswipe - in the words of your brilliant friend from the animal world ?
What is the worth of the political thoughts of a crap sniffer ?
How much can a crap sniffer think when his brain is only enthralled by the whiff of the crap from a friend's sister ?
Your politics begin at the Bar, and will end up in your friend's toilet - searching for the facts of his sister's crap.
We will not be surprise if your friendship with your friend become disintegrated as a result of your indulgent crap sniffing ways. -
Currency policies and politics are two different issues.Originally posted by stupidissmart:china have been telling people it will relaxed its currency control for donkey years but it is still the same. Believe it only when they have done it. If talking is good enough, then LHL also say he will want to open up the politics of singapore for some years as well
Deng Xiao Ping's analogy of the ''black and white cat'' was a political analogy that open the door for China to become more pragmatic.
With Karl Marx Communist ideology already flogged to death, and China's experimentation with Capitalism producing the success that they have always sought for themselves - do you seriously believe that they will want to return to the Communistic Ways ?
It is unfortunate that the Ruling Party in China has included the word 'Communist' as part of its name, with the word itself no longer of any significant ideological value.
In time to come, it may morphed into another name, as it succeed in reforming the political structure, organisation and system to practice politics that includes everyone in China.
It is early days yet, and we will see how they make their first moves to take up this challenge to reform themselves for posterity sake.
This exercise is not only about maintaining the strength of the Ruling Party, but about reforming the political system that will allow the best to serve the country irregardless of political thinking and ideology.
It is truly inclusive in its principle.
Compared to the stones that have been turned for review by LHL and his hand picked committee - when the opportunities were given after two recessions - LHL did not have the courage to move on his own, and preferred to replace those stones, and continue with the worn out policies of the past.
Singapore will always remained handicapped by the few elitist in Cabinet, who believe themselves to have all the sum total intelligence of a population of 4.6 million, and will decide Who, What, Why, When and HOW - our lives should be.
Are we more superior than the Swiss model, which has a larger population that Singapore, and whose Government will consult the Swiss Citizens on every political decisions that affect the Swiss ?
China's current state of economic achievements took them 30 years from the time when Deng Xiao Ping released his ''black and white cat'' analogy - and it has proven those 1978 cautious cynics wrong.
With its current economic strength and political stability, it has new found confidence to develop a more open and inclusive political system - perhaps with the final objective of winning over Taiwan without losing a drop of 'ethnic Han' blood on both sides of the Taiwan Straits. -
Yes by means of remaining the sec-gen of sdp he can seek votes on behalf of his party. He is synonymous with SDP. Present day SDP won't be what it is without his efforts and presence. Good or bad i leave for others to judge. Sometimes i wonder what would happen in Sembawang had he not stepped in.Originally posted by Atobe:Unfortunately, as a politician he is already barred.
He can only be an activist till he is absolved by the Official Assignee, and only when it is in the interest of the Powers that be - to allow him to be absolved.
Is he seeking for your vote ?
Can he ?
We recall that WP was about to contest Sembawang with Poh Lee Guan doing some ground work. Chee decided to go in and capitalise on the NKF issue with him priorly accusing the government of covering up the issue. We also recall that 5 years prior to that he had made the accusation that LKY and GCT had misleaded parliament into making a loan to Suharto. Same modus operandi...SDP suffered a resounding defeat.
Now he has started soliciting for funds as we can see from many threads here, including this one. He has openly criticised WP and we have never seen Singaporeans that split about opposition parties. Good or bad i leave for others to judge. As long as he remains in politics, he can sway votes. However, is he diminishing support for PAP or is he fighting for a larger share of the pie that the opposition holds. -
I really admire you all (except Gazelle, the pantry sniffer) for your constructive comment on Singapore political arena.
For I simply arent able to so. Points from pro and against government are both constructive yet contrasting.
Atobe, Bear, karmeave, M13, wow are you all political science students? -
For those interested in understanding the proposed changes to ''China's Political Party System'' - as declared in the current session of the National Congress - here is the full text that spread across 9 short pages.
The following are abstracts taken from this article:
A-1
''The political party system China has adopted is multi-party cooperation and political consultation under the leadership of the Communist Party of China (CPC) (hereinafter "multi-party cooperation system" ), which is different from both the two-party or multi-party competition systems of Western countries and the one-party system practiced in some other countries.''
A-2
''Both the CPC and the democratic parties must take the Constitution as the basic norm of their conduct, and uphold the dignity of the Constitution and ensure its implementation.
{At least, someone has declared respect to her Constitution - will the Singapore Ruling Party do the same - instead of bastardising the Singapore Constitution into a worthless piece of nonsense ?}
Under China's multi-party cooperation system, there are the CPC and eight other political parties. The eight democratic parties are: Revolutionary Committee of the Chinese Kuomintang, China Democratic League, China National Democratic Construction Association, China Association for Promoting Democracy, Chinese Peasants and Workers Democratic Party, China Zhi Gong Dang, Jiu San Society and Taiwan Democratic Self-Government League.''
A-3
''Based on the principle of "long-term coexistence, mutual supervision, treating each other with sincerity and sharing each other's weal and woe," the CPC and the eight democratic parties work hand in hand in developing socialism with Chinese characteristics, thus giving rise to the basic feature of "multi-party cooperation system under the leadership of the CPC, with the CPC holding power and the other eight parties participating fully in state affairs."
A-4
''The multi-party cooperation system shows unique political advantage and strong vitality, and plays an irreplaceable role in China's political and social life.''
{A-1 to A-4: will contrast the attitude that of the Singapore's Ruling Party, who simply has no respect towards the Alternative Parties}
A-5
''The political history and practice of modern and contemporary China prove that the construction of democratic politics in China must proceed from the country's basic conditions, and blind emulation of the political or party systems of any other country will never succeed; and that dictatorship will also end in failure, as it is against the law of historical development and the people's will.''
A-6
''In a liberal, stable and harmonious political atmosphere, the CPC maintains wide political cooperation with the democratic parties, attends to their political and material interests, and unites with them in the march forward.''
A-7
''The CPC and the other eight democratic parties supervise each other. Such supervision is political supervision exercised through exchanging views and airing criticisms and suggestions. Since the CPC is the leading and ruling party, it needs particularly supervision from the democratic parties more than the other way round.'' {This must surely make the tinpot supporters red in the eye.}
A-8
''The multi-party cooperation system has created a new form of political party system in the world, a unique system by itself. Under this system, the CPC and the democratic parties work closely together and supervise each other, instead of opposing each other.'' {This is the courage and self-confidence of a New China, to formulate a system that is answerable to the People, and not to a cult of self-annointed Elites}
A-9
'' This system accords with the system of people's congresses to ensure that the people are the masters of the state, rather than a democracy for a minority of people.''
{It looks as if China studied and rejected the Singapore Political Model. Is China referring to the 66.6% majority in a democracy for only 1,000,000PLUS Singaporeans out of an electorate of of 3,000,000 PLUS ? China ought to be congratulated for its astute ability to discern flawed democracy.}
A-10
''Without democracy there can be no socialism, let alone socialist modernization.''
A-11
''The CPC aims to serve the people wholeheartedly, and represents the fundamental interests of the overwhelming majority of the Chinese people.''
A-12
''One major feature of China's socialist democracy is the combination of democratic election and democratic consultation. In China, the people's congress system and the multi-party cooperation system under the leadership of the CPC supplement each other. That the people exercise their democratic rights through election and voting and that consultation is conducted among people of all walks of life to achieve consensus as much as possible before any significant decisions are made are two important ways to realize socialist democracy.''
A-13
''Full political consultation both takes into account the opinions of the majority and shows respect to the reasonable requirements of the minority, thus guaranteeing democracy of the widest scope and promoting the harmonious development of society.''
{Paragraphs A9-A13 must be the understatement of the year - if seen from the Singapore context}
A-14
''In the new historical circumstances, one of the key jobs for developing socialist democracy is adhering to and improving the multi-party cooperation system under CPC leadership, which entails expanding the orderly political participation of citizens, broadening the channels for the expression of social interest and fostering harmonious social development.''
A-15
''It is a key part of the multi-party cooperation system under the leadership of the CPC that democratic party members take leadership positions in government and judicial organs.''
{Surely, Singapore's Government aka Ruling Party has alot more to learn from China now ?} -
So when are the people going to vote for their government?
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This has been a strange week.
China held up as an example of democracy and political openess.(based on nothing more than the un-veiling of some manifesto that for now is not even worth the paper it is printed on. gee, I guess we can all forget about the track record of the communist ruling party now eh? all water under the bridge!!!)
Malaysia's judicial system held up as an example of one with integrity. (so far off base as to hardly warrant any argument)
*pinches arm*
Am I in some weird twilight zone? -
i want to know that tooOriginally posted by Gazelle:So when are the people going to vote for their government? -
Patience..... patience...... and more patience.....
God took six days to create earth, and had to rest on the seventh day.
Rome was not built in a day, neither was the Great Wall of China.
It has taken a group of sincere nationalist to take control of China's top post, consolidate itself by removing all political threats, and surprisingly instead of entrenching themselves, their cronies, and their scions - they did something that will hopefully create a new, modern political system that will make their motherland even stronger, hopefully removing any opportunities for any personaility cult from pushing China back to the old ways.
It took almost 50 years for LKY to change from an enthusiastic socialist democrat into an ''machiavellian autocrat'' - who will even dare to suggest calling on the SAF to execute a coup de'tat in the event an Alternative Party is elected to form the next Government and begin to use funds from the National Reserves.
He will even dream of changing the election system if the Third World Methods fail to prevent such an outcome, by giving 2 votes to the older voters - hoping that it will prevent the Alternative Party from ever succeeding in Politics.
This is the difference between mature leadership thinking for the Nation, and a self-serving leadership that only serve its own interest. -
paiseh folks,
like to ask,
is China a COMMUNIST country now or is it a DEMOCRATIC Nation?
Anyone has the answer ? -
China is still a communist country but the govt takes care of the people by giving them pension and allowing people who are 70 and above travel free on public transport. Shame on PAP who refuses to take care of us when we grow old but take money away from us.Originally posted by reddressman:paiseh folks,
like to ask,
is China a COMMUNIST country now or is it a DEMOCRATIC Nation?
Anyone has the answer ? -
The idea of communism is justice to the people...no buts...Originally posted by qlqq9:China is still a communist country but the govt takes care of the people by giving them pension and allowing people who are 70 and above travel free on public transport. Shame on PAP who refuses to take care of us when we grow old but take money away from us.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm -
Originally posted by kramnave:The idea of communism is justice to the people --> justice to the people is what we lack in Singapore. Initially when I got to know that the china govt really care to give pension to the people, I am surprised.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm -
Embrace communism then, since the birth of communism came with the downfall of the Qing Dynasty which many here compare equivalent to the "Lee Dynasty".
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Add to that, Singapore has been calling for Gambari to report on Myanmar despite Myanmar's objections.Originally posted by av98m:This has been a strange week.
China held up as an example of democracy and political openess.(based on nothing more than the un-veiling of some manifesto that for now is not even worth the paper it is printed on. gee, I guess we can all forget about the track record of the communist ruling party now eh? all water under the bridge!!!)
Malaysia's judicial system held up as an example of one with integrity. (so far off base as to hardly warrant any argument)
*pinches arm*
Am I in some weird twilight zone?
Then again, Singapore's banning of a video game and leading the pro-death penalty campaign in the UN has brought some sense of normalcy back. -
Embrace communism?Originally posted by kramnave:Embrace communism then, since the birth of communism came with the downfall of the Qing Dynasty which many here compare equivalent to the "Lee Dynasty". -
What is wrong with communism ?Originally posted by qlqq9:Embrace communism? -
You misinterpreted my question. I meant to ask how to embrace, we have PAP here in Singapore who is neither here nor there.Originally posted by kramnave:What is wrong with communism ? -
Well we are a capitalistic democracy/aristocracy which significantly differs from communism.Originally posted by qlqq9:You misinterpreted my question. I meant to ask how to embrace, we have PAP here in Singapore who is neither here nor there. -
aristocracy, you mean the lee monarchy? ha ha. Democracy, no not democracy. Capitalistic - yes.Originally posted by kramnave:Well we are a capitalistic democracy/aristocracy which significantly differs from communism.