UN panel votes for death penalty moratorium
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Well, not every country has a top-notch investigative service.
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he murdered more than 50 young girls .....Originally posted by LazerLordz:well, with respect to your personal convictions..there have been cases where the families of the victims have called for a non-capital punishment for the killer (not this case evidently).
How would you view those families? Would you call them crazy?
all of them ? .... unlikely .....
neways, the bar talk of the city where I was working at was decidedly pro-death penalty ....
you have to understand that these people are fed up with the crime levels and the limp-wristed justice system ... the provincial capital was the country's leading murder and crime capital of the country ... because of the limp-wristed justice system, I dare not visit the downtown after midnight, never on foot after dark, my car got broken into on one occasion, my wipers got stolen on another, and EVERY SINGLE ONE of my friends there had been victims of crimes petty to major, from car break ins to home burglaries, to assaults and robberies ....
we can afford to philosophize about the death penalty and harsh punishments here in Singapore, cos this is a luxury ... a precious luxury that is often not available to everyone ... we should be thankful for it ... I think you may be sprouting a different line if you yourself if you go through that yourself ... we don't have ghettos, I can go jogging at 2am here .... this is the difference ... -
true ....Originally posted by LazerLordz:Well, not every country has a top-notch investigative service.
so why should every country abolish the death penalty then ? ....
neways, remember the hague's Yugoslavia proceedings ? .... where mass murderers, killers of hundreds of civilians, were simply put away behind bars ? ....
I think it's a crying shame they were not dispatched with a spray of bullets like they did to their victims .... lucky WWII happened in an earlier, simplier time, where at least some of the butchers of that war met their richly deserved fates ....
I wonder if you'd like to let, say, Osama and the likes live when they are caught ? .... -
Yes.Originally posted by Fatum:true ....
so why should every country abolish the death penalty then ? ....
neways, remember the hague's Yugoslavia proceedings ? .... where mass murderers, killers of hundreds of civilians, were simply put away behind bars ? ....
I think it's a crying shame they were not dispatched with a spray of bullets like they did to their victims .... lucky WWII happened in an earlier, simplier time, where at least some of the butchers of that war met their richly deserved fates ....
I wonder if you'd like to let, say, Osama and the likes live when they are caught ? ....
Why give them the luxury of death? These buggers should be made to face up to their crimes every single remaining day of their lives. To ensure that the pain and misery they have caused is a constant reminder in their heads.
How they want to ensure this, is up to the authorities. But one of my reasons for opposing the death penalty is that it doesn't impose on the criminal any sense of torment that he or she has caused the victim, and we all won't know what happens after death would we..
Punishment is about having to face the pain caused by your misdeeds. Death is but an easy way out. -
if u dun kill them.
Who gonna pay for the following
Food They eat in Jail
Basic Neccesities in Jail
Exercise Eqiupment in Jail
If they were to be injured, Hospital bills
Electicity Bills
Water Biills. -
More TAX ?Originally posted by corebooster:if u dun kill them.
Who gonna pay for the following
Food They eat in Jail
Basic Neccesities in Jail
Exercise Eqiupment in Jail
If they were to be injured, Hospital bills
Electicity Bills
Water Biills.
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Again, an utilitarian argument.Originally posted by corebooster:if u dun kill them.
Who gonna pay for the following
Food They eat in Jail
Basic Neccesities in Jail
Exercise Eqiupment in Jail
If they were to be injured, Hospital bills
Electicity Bills
Water Biills. -
It's normal to have pro-death penalty sentiments in places where crime is high, because it could be something that people feel that is a fast and easy way to solve all crimes.Originally posted by Fatum:he murdered more than 50 young girls .....
all of them ? .... unlikely .....
neways, the bar talk of the city where I was working at was decidedly pro-death penalty ....
you have to understand that these people are fed up with the crime levels and the limp-wristed justice system ... the provincial capital was the country's leading murder and crime capital of the country ... because of the limp-wristed justice system, I dare not visit the downtown after midnight, never on foot after dark, my car got broken into on one occasion, my wipers got stolen on another, and EVERY SINGLE ONE of my friends there had been victims of crimes petty to major, from car break ins to home burglaries, to assaults and robberies ....
we can afford to philosophize about the death penalty and harsh punishments here in Singapore, cos this is a luxury ... a precious luxury that is often not available to everyone ... we should be thankful for it ... I think you may be sprouting a different line if you yourself if you go through that yourself ... we don't have ghettos, I can go jogging at 2am here .... this is the difference ...
You could also assign the blame to a lack of professionalism and dedication to the chaps in law enforcement or the fellas making the legislation to ensure that laws are properly enforced by people adequately funded and backed.
To blame it all on a lack of a death penalty is closer to a knee-jerk argument.. -
you suppose a hardened terrorist or a serial murderer like that pig farmer would feel remorse ? ... unlikely ... perhaps, except when faced with the gallows and the prospect of explaining their deeds to God ...Originally posted by LazerLordz:Yes.
Why give them the luxury of death? These buggers should be made to face up to their crimes every single remaining day of their lives. To ensure that the pain and misery they have caused is a constant reminder in their heads.
How they want to ensure this, is up to the authorities. But one of my reasons for opposing the death penalty is that it doesn't impose on the criminal any sense of torment that he or she has caused the victim, and we all won't know what happens after death would we..
Punishment is about having to face the pain caused by your misdeeds. Death is but an easy way out.
I can assure you, the prospect of having their parasitic existence snuffed out prematurely would cause more feelings of remorse than dying peacefully in a jail bed at a ripe old age .... the scaffold is powerful that way ...
it also gives the families of the victims a closure that a life sentence cannot ... imagine enduring the pain of the live of one of your close and loved one snuffed prematurely by a dirty pig farmer, knowing that she was probably brutally raped before being murdered, and her body parts minced into tiny pieces and fed to the pigs ... and that THAT dirty pig farmer is now living it up in jail ... with 3 square meals a day and daily exercises, TV, magazines galore that it's basically a resort with bars .... medical care ALL paid for by the goverment, that he's enjoying better medical treatment than what you are getting from the public health system, with no queues, ensuring that he'll live to a ripe old age ... despite snuffing out the life of your beloved daughter, wife, sister, mother, whoever .....
trust me ... they'll feel more fear and remorse staring at the scaffold and the prospect of hell than living to a ripe old age while having prison shrinks telling them that they are victims of society, not crims three times a week ! ... -
Who said anything about letting capital criminals stay in the cushy prison wards of Canada.
And I hardly think a callous bastard like the pig farmer had any fear of God in the first place. -
so you concur that it is indeed a luxury to have the option of being able to philosophize about the death penalty, rather than use it as a real tool to deter serious crimes ? ...Originally posted by LazerLordz:It's normal to have pro-death penalty sentiments in places where crime is high, because it could be something that people feel that is a fast and easy way to solve all crimes.
You could also assign the blame to a lack of professionalism and dedication to the chaps in law enforcement or the fellas making the legislation to ensure that laws are properly enforced by people adequately funded and backed.
To blame it all on a lack of a death penalty is closer to a knee-jerk argument..
I was arguing generally for harsh punishments, of which I think the death penalty is an effective and integral component ... and I can assure you, that it's not the incompetence of the police force that was the problem ... let me give you a real life example ... from my canadian years again
My landlord there was a manager at safeway, a large hypermarket chain ... at his workplace, near a crime ridden part of the city, they get an average of 100 to 120 shoplifters caught in a MONTH ! ... go work out the math ... he says it's usually one before lunch, and the rest around the evening peak rush ... some of these shoplifters are so serial that he's on a first name basis with the officers on the beat ... and the police officers are on a FIRST NAME BASIS with these shoplifters, you know why ? ... two reasons
1.) the court system is so backed up, that for a public persecutor to charge a petty shoplifter, it'll take more than 10 months for the case to come to trial ...
2.) the penalty is often nothing more than a slap on the wrist or an admonition ... the judges often being unwilling to administer heavy punishment, whether believing in giving people second, third, fourth, fifth, ad infinitum chances, or simply doesn't want to further choke up the over flowing penitentiary system, I don't know ....
so there you go ... the turn over for floor walkers (store detectives) is also very high ... these petty crims know that the law is on their side, so when cornered they'll often get violent with the floor walkers, and because the floor walkers and the police officers are the law, they cannot get physical in turn with these low lives ... my landlord tells me that floor walkers and police officers regularly get whacked, spat on, clawed, bitten (yes, bitten !) ... by these low lives .... he got it a few times himself as the manager whom cornered shop lifters were brought to ....
this degeneration of society is something I've witnessed first hand, and I'm not going to get into the pot dealers, biker gangsters, those little twats that scratched my car, stole my wipers, and broke into it ... this is real, not some detective novel or drama stuff ...
some of my older friends there spoke fondly over beers of an earlier, simpler time, where it was okay to leave your doors and cars unlocked, okay for the kids to play outside after dark, okay to take a bus and get around on foot downtown, where crimes were low and the police were respected ... I am convinced that hard punishments is an effective measure to preserve the security of a society ... -
all wards are cushy here .... human rights neh ....Originally posted by LazerLordz:Who said anything about letting capital criminals stay in the cushy prison wards of Canada.
And I hardly think a callous bastard like the pig farmer had any fear of God in the first place.
there are no stinky, mildewed, rats infested wards here ! ...
it's so ironic, isn't it, that criminals would enjoy better health care and food and lodgings than the mean streets they terrorized outside .... at the tax payer's expenses no less .....
and it hardly matters if the farker has any fear of God ... it's about justice, deterrence, and closure for the victims of the families as much as anything else ...
if he has no fear of God ... he wouldn't feel any remorse anyways even if you keep him alive to (paraphrase you) " be made to face up to their crimes every single remaining day of their lives. To ensure that the pain and misery they have caused is a constant reminder in their heads." .... he wouldn't feel anything, neh ? ....
so .... is it utilitarian to say why give him the right to breathe the same air, be cared for by the same society that he had so terrorized ? ... what about the pain of the victims, those he killed, and those left behind ? .... -
Even wild animals who kill for their own benefits deserve to live.
What more of humans who behave like animals and kill for their pleasure.
Are these criminals who kill a result of their genetic attributes?
Killing the person who killed your close relative or friend is a part of a vengeful act.
All one needs to do is to separate those homicidal criminals from the rest of the population, to prevent the criminal from killing again.
Two wrongs doesn't make a right. -
really feed the Pig? -
just take a good look at the overcrowded jails in certain countries and you know the law should be tough on criminals.
though i do agree that only a handful offenses require a mandatory death sentence. -
I was thinking more of solitary confinement in gulag style camps.Originally posted by Fatum:all wards are cushy here .... human rights neh ....
there are no stinky, mildewed, rats infested wards here ! ...
it's so ironic, isn't it, that criminals would enjoy better health care and food and lodgings than the mean streets they terrorized outside .... at the tax payer's expenses no less .....
and it hardly matters if the farker has any fear of God ... it's about justice, deterrence, and closure for the victims of the families as much as anything else ...
if he has no fear of God ... he wouldn't feel any remorse anyways even if you keep him alive to (paraphrase you) " be made to face up to their crimes every single remaining day of their lives. To ensure that the pain and misery they have caused is a constant reminder in their heads." .... he wouldn't feel anything, neh ? ....
so .... is it utilitarian to say why give him the right to breathe the same air, be cared for by the same society that he had so terrorized ? ... what about the pain of the victims, those he killed, and those left behind ? .... -
I thought gulag meant forced labour, solitary confinement in a forced labour camp, sounds a bit oxymoronic, no ? ...Originally posted by LazerLordz:I was thinking more of solitary confinement in gulag style camps.
the killing of any heinous criminal by the society is not just about punishment, certainly not rehabilitation; since you also said that hardened criminals like that pig farmer would not feel any repentance anyways ...
like I said above, it's about justice and closure for the victims' families and deterrence .... we must never confuse the punishment with the crime ... the society didn't ask to kill, do not want to kill ... the crims bought it onto themselves ....