First thing to do in restoring democracy - free the press?
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MOM has only its look-good statistics concealing the real problem like the number of unemployed for 3 months, 6 months, 12 months, 1-2 years, 3-4 years.
It looks like Minister Ng Eng Hen is not willing to be accountable or truthful by giving direct figures showing unemployment situation in Singapore. He is more interested in showing number of jobs created but not that interested in showing out of the jobs created how many go to citizens as opposed to foreigners or PRs.
In addition, when the professors at NUS interpreted the MOM figures as showing a stark picture of unemployment Minister Ng was quick to blame them for giving false or wrong information which actually was not caused by the professors.
The talents in our government should in the first place not try to conceal truths in statistics. For example, Minister Ng could instead of combining job creations in a merged category of Singapore Residents (meaning no distinction between Citizens and PR who are now regarded as residents on par with citizens) provide separate figures showing citizens who have become unemployed against periods of unemployment over the longer time frame as many are still willing to stay employed but were unable to find jobs after 1999 widespread retrenchments. So those who are still willing to be employ but are unable to find jobs they should be included as unemployed and not excluded due to MOM's own definition of no longer seeking jobs after a shorter period.
To govern a country efficiently with care for welfare and wellbeing of citizens we must not encourage this kind of practice to use statistics to conceal unpleasant truths.
The press should be permitted free reporting of news including their own professional interpretations of data and news so as not to conceal ugly problems like NKF or Shin Corp or MOM's tweaking of the unemployment figures.
The statistics on ZAEMites should be fully transparent and accountable and not be tweaked by any ministers to lessen impact of unpleasant truths.
There may not be just one case or several cases of suicides or destitutes. But the press is not giving due coverage of such actual problems. If government is to change its mindset the first mindset is to let facts be reported freely as they stand.
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again, i ask.. what's 66.6%??
chopped liver? -
First thing to do in restoring democracy is to have elections where they have a consistent electoral map and not change it every time. Let Hougang be Hougang and not some Hougang some Aljunied. Same goes for Bt Panjang SMC and Holland-Bt Timah GRC.
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yeah.. i agree too..
but.. here's the thing...
the opposition should stop blaming the MIW for standing in the constituencies where they are unable to come up with representatives...
i can't blame the ref for giving the guy who turned up the title if the opponent doesn't show up..Originally posted by kramnave:First thing to do in restoring democracy is to have elections where they have a consistent electoral map and not change it every time. Let Hougang be Hougang and not some Hougang some Aljunied. Same goes for Bt Panjang SMC and Holland-Bt Timah GRC. -
Yeah only with fair elections would most things be clear. Perhaps the opposition can fight for a "free" press, welfare for all, more jobs to Singaporeans rather than FT etc etc things that the PAP doesn't really deem to provide and then let the voters decide what government they want...if people vote for the hybrid PAP rather than the "democrats" then so be it.Originally posted by the Bear:yeah.. i agree too..
but.. here's the thing...
the opposition should stop blaming the MIW for standing in the constituencies where they are unable to come up with representatives...
i can't blame the ref for giving the guy who turned up the title if the opponent doesn't show up.. -
What is 66.6 under the cloak of false GRC election? What is 66.6 when there is no election in so many constituencies. Are you not ashame as a Singaporean if your GRC MP tells you he is elected by coattail vote.Originally posted by the Bear:again, i ask.. what's 66.6%??
chopped liver?
Think again if citizens do not speak up for you and your children will you and your children be able to stand serene to enjoy all the good lives one day with more of the NKFs and Shin Corp and other wrong doings and malpractices forcing people to rebel.
Can you be bought by petty material gains and be a golden calf worshiper.
What will happen to your children and your children's children then if like Li Ao said there is no good citizens to bring about good government. -
It would be nice,
... if the first thing we con do to reinstate TRUE democracy,
.... is to kick out PAP...!
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there you go again..
okay... let me ask you something...
democracy... whose? yours?
just because someone else's definition of democracy doesn't agree with yours it is not?
you want to jam your version of "democracy" down the throats of others?
what does that make you?
nothing but a tinpot fascist... and you KNOW you are just a fascist...
now.. go stand for elections.. change the thing..
otherwise, you need some cheese to go with your whine...Originally posted by robertteh:What is 66.6 under the cloak of false GRC election? What is 66.6 when there is no election in so many constituencies. Are you not ashame as a Singaporean if your GRC MP tells you he is elected by coattail vote.
Think again if citizens do not speak up for you and your children will you and your children be able to stand serene to enjoy all the good lives one day with more of the NKFs and Shin Corp and other wrong doings and malpractices forcing people to rebel.
Can you be bought by petty material gains and be a golden calf worshiper.
What will happen to your children and your children's children then if like Li Ao said there is no good citizens to bring about good government. -
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!Originally posted by robertteh:What is 66.6 under the cloak of false GRC election? What is 66.6 when there is no election in so many constituencies. Are you not ashame as a Singaporean if your GRC MP tells you he is elected by coattail vote.
Think again if citizens do not speak up for you and your children will you and your children be able to stand serene to enjoy all the good lives one day with more of the NKFs and Shin Corp and other wrong doings and malpractices forcing people to rebel.
Can you be bought by petty material gains and be a golden calf worshiper.
What will happen to your children and your children's children then if like Li Ao said there is no good citizens to bring about good government.
And there are Tenths of Thousands of people in Jurong, who will not bat an eye to vote them out if ever they were allowed to vote! -
you're going to blame the one who turned up for the fight for winning when the opponent didn't turn up?
as much as i don't like walkovers, you MUST blame the opposition for it..Originally posted by HyperFocal:ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!
And there are Tenths of Thousands of people in Jurong, who will not bat an eye to vote them out if ever they were allowed to vote! -
Whose fault is it that the opposition chooses not to contest in certain wards ? Whose fault is it that opposition contests and loses in certain wards ?Originally posted by robertteh:What is 66.6 under the cloak of false GRC election? What is 66.6 when there is no election in so many constituencies. Are you not ashame as a Singaporean if your GRC MP tells you he is elected by coattail vote.
Think again if citizens do not speak up for you and your children will you and your children be able to stand serene to enjoy all the good lives one day with more of the NKFs and Shin Corp and other wrong doings and malpractices forcing people to rebel.
Can you be bought by petty material gains and be a golden calf worshiper.
What will happen to your children and your children's children then if like Li Ao said there is no good citizens to bring about good government.
You can say that changing the electoral maps is unfair but that is about it. -
what is a true democracy?Originally posted by HyperFocal:It would be nice,
... if the first thing we con do to reinstate TRUE democracy,
.... is to kick out PAP...! -
Power to the people, in fact people rule the nation....there is no true democracy in this world.Originally posted by av98m:what is a true democracy? -
Whose fault is it if people are being sued until every one is deterred from standing for election.Originally posted by kramnave:Whose fault is it that the opposition chooses not to contest in certain wards ? Whose fault is it that opposition contests and loses in certain wards ?
You can say that changing the electoral maps is unfair but that is about it.
Who started suing the opposition for honest opinions or views or remarks deemed libellous or defamatory even if they are uttered with justifications in the heat of election campaigning.
In fact the use of political power to sue oppositions became so overbearing and belligerent that the ruling party was not too afraid to be guilty of any name calling themselves by calling Gomez a liar without proof by openly too defying him to sue if he was not a liar.
Just think about it - Will Gomez be able to sue him if he is aggrieved and get justice after what have happened to Jeyaratnam and Tang Liang Hong where innuendos themselves like making of a police report were deemed libellous.
If you are at the receiving end like Tang Liang Hong being called Chinese Chauvinist how would you have felt.
Will you have the luxury of standing serene at street corner singing songs of praise when malpractices and more abuses happened forcing citizens to rebel like in Myanmar.
Do you stand for such open vindictiveness in our political process. Will we have a future to talk about with such vindictiveness going on for years. -
TS is suggesting that the Singapore press are not "free". On what basis do you come to this view?
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There is a very good reason for that, methinksOriginally posted by kramnave:Power to the people, in fact people rule the nation....there is no true democracy in this world. -
Is LTK sued ? CST sued ? Was Chee justified in saying that GCT and LKY loaned $18 Billion of Singaporeans money to Suharto ?Originally posted by robertteh:Whose fault is it if people are being sued until every one is deterred from standing for election.
Who started suing the opposition for honest opinions or views or remarks deemed libellous or defamatory even if they are uttered with justifications in the heat of election campaigning.
In fact the use of political power to sue oppositions became so overbearing and belligerent that the ruling party was not too afraid to be guilty of any name calling themselves by calling Gomez a liar without proof by openly too defying him to sue if he was not a liar.
Just think about it - Will Gomez be able to sue him if he is aggrieved and get justice after what have happened to Jeyaratnam and Tang Liang Hong where innuendos themselves like making of a police report were deemed libellous.
If you are at the receiving end like Tang Liang Hong being called Chinese Chauvinist how would you have felt.
Will you have the luxury of standing serene at street corner singing songs of praise when malpractices and more abuses happened forcing citizens to rebel like in Myanmar.
Do you stand for such open vindictiveness in our political process. Will we have a future to talk about with such vindictiveness going on for years.
The earlier you remove such misconceptions in your head, the earlier more Singaporeans will come out and join the opposition without fear. -
Read foreign papers and you'll understand what TS is talking about lah. Sometimes some things they say are good lah but most of the time it's rubbish because journalists write to sell and most of their views conform to those of citizens feelings rather than true facts. Most are rushed reports...but can't blame them lah.Originally posted by :TS is suggesting that the Singapore press are not "free". On what basis do you come to this view? -
Read my old posts - at least three - where I have written to the Straits Times well articulated letters suggesting solutions to our current problems from rising costs of living to need to revise the constitution. These letters were rejected outright due to their hitting the nails on their heads regarding our problems.Originally posted by :TS is suggesting that the Singapore press are not "free". On what basis do you come to this view?
On those occasions as some forumers who came across my forum letters might still remembers many forum letters published were merely those of minor local issues or quarrels among neighbours over the cats or some other mundane issues.
I wrote one letter to Today but it was rejected so I replied why was Today not giving space to letter on major issues and why letters concerning cat nuisance were published instead. To my surprise the next day Today deliberately published yet another letter concerning cat nuisance.
There was once one letter of mine to the Straits Times was accepted for publication with a prior acknowledgement but on the same day an Editorial Assistant emailed me back to inform me sorry my letter had been overruled by a power editor.
In contrast, one of my earlier letter written to congratulate ex-PM Goh Chok Tong for his liberalization and topping up of citizens' CPF was instantly accepted and published without difficulty. -
[quote]Originally posted by robertteh:
[b]
Whose fault is it if people are being sued until every one is deterred from standing for election.
Who started suing the opposition for honest opinions or views or remarks deemed libellous or defamatory even if they are uttered with justifications in the heat of election campaigning.
Sorry hor, you obviously don't know the law......!
Justification is a defence to defamation only if you are speaking the truth!
When it is plain that TS doesn't even know these concepts on which his argument stands, it accordingly follows that his stand has no grounds whatsoever and is only utter rubbish!
It is the fault of the opposition members for stepping out of bounds. If they had kept to stating plain facts without attempting to cast imputations on the reputation of others, they should have nothing to fear. But as it is, the opposition parties cannot even get their facts right and go on to slime others! Serve them right for getting sued! -
For all your detailed explanations, it is very obvious after so many decades, to briefly state that we are fundamentally being FARMED for money by the current ruling party....Originally posted by robertteh:Read my old posts - at least three - where I have written to the Straits Times well articulated letters suggesting solutions to our current problems from rising costs of living to need to revise the constitution. These letters were rejected outright due to their hitting the nails on their heads regarding our problems.
On those occasions as some forumers who came across my forum letters might still remembers many forum letters published were merely those of minor local issues or quarrels among neighbours over the cats or some other mundane issues.
I wrote one letter to Today but it was rejected so I replied why was Today not giving space to letter on major issues and why letters concerning cat nuisance were published instead. To my surprise the next day Today deliberately published yet another letter concerning cat nuisance.
There was once one letter of mine to the Straits Times was accepted for publication with a prior acknowledgement but on the same day an Editorial Assistant emailed me back to inform me sorry my letter had been overruled by a power editor.
In contrast, one of my earlier letter written to congratulate ex-PM Goh Chok Tong for his liberalization and topping up of citizens' CPF was instantly accepted and published without difficulty.
... while we are made to live by & with, so many margins the drew... -
TS, the fact that you may have had lettrers refused for publication does not necessarily mean that the press is not free wor..... That is no way to arrive at your conclusion! If I were the editor, I will also choose to pass over your your letter as you sprout a lot of utter rubbish without backing up your assertions with solid facts/evidence..... You will have failed your GP too!
BTW, you still have not answered my query as to the basis you suggest that the press is not "free"......... -
If you want to play semantics go ahead and have your play. The post is concerned with the topic : First thing to do in restoring democracy - free the press.Originally posted by :[quote]Originally posted by robertteh:
[b]
Whose fault is it if people are being sued until every one is deterred from standing for election.
Who started suing the opposition for honest opinions or views or remarks deemed libellous or defamatory even if they are uttered with justifications in the heat of election campaigning.
Sorry hor, you obviously don't know the law......!
Justification is a defence to defamation only if you are speaking the truth! When it is plain that TS doesn't even know these concepts on which his argument stands, it accordingly follows that his stand has no grounds whatsoever and is only utter rubbish!
It is the fault of the opposition members for stepping out of bounds. If they had kept to stating plain facts without attempting to cast imputations on the reputation of others, they should have nothing to fear. But as it is, the opposition parties cannot even get their facts right and go on to slime others! Serve them right for getting sued!
After you asked for proof I have given you proof based on my own personal experiences of having objectively written critical letters rejected but you have conveniently refused to accept that as proof without telling me yourself why was the press free. Remember the international survey of press freedom has not ranked Singapore Press as 145th in term of freedom without a reason.
For more information, please read the relevant website provided in this forum many times on our press freedom.
Why was our press not free. Ask PM Lee what he meant when he told the press that "Journalists are not permitted to practise Crusading Journalism"
Will the above-stated evidence be sufficient to show that PM Lee has restricted press freedom by resorting to OB to prevent journalists from publishing articles carrying their own in-depth views or opinions which can be easily deemed crusading any particular stand or issue. -
there is no true free press !!!
All new company are own by people !!! they are use by people with their own objective and views !!! - thus no true free press !!! -
So typical of TS' pattern that when his argument has been rubbished, he turns around to say that I play "semantics"........
Opposition parties lose liao, oso say PAP this and PAP that......
They should really be taking a long hard look at themselves.......... Birds of a feather! 
At the end of the day, TS and the opposition parties had better face it that they CMI one la. While on the outside, they try to portray themselves as intellectuals, examine them more thoroughly and they have no substance and are just empty vessels making the most noise!