Is it really necessary to hire citizens at all?
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Hello!!
I heard someone rumored that,
as long as hire a PR,
is the same as hiring a citizen,
since both are sg RESIDENTS,
whereby the law and statistics uses the entity
RESIDENTS rather than CITIZENS ?
How true is this?
There is a company whereby all its employees I see are from somewhere near the Indian ocean. The employer is a new immigrant who migrated from there. His employees are all of his kind with some exceptions also from overseas within asean.
But some of his employees are PRs having occupied positions here for several years liao.
My question for the day is thus, TECHNICALLY, LEGALLY, can a person run a business employing purely PRs and FTs only?
Please advise, if u are able. -
if cannot, there's such a "secret" practice in sg that the employer submit that this sgrean is being employed by his company and is paying the sgrean full salary, when in fact, the employer only pays the CPF, and the supposedly sgrean isn't working at all... => paying for the use of the sgrean's name as being employed.
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Originally posted by reddressman:
Correct, a company can hire only PR bu for foreign proeffesional, depedning whether it is EP or WP, there is a quota.
Hello!!
I heard someone rumored that,
as long as hire a PR,
is the same as hiring a citizen,
since both are sg RESIDENTS,
whereby the law and statistics uses the entity
RESIDENTS rather than CITIZENS ?
How true is this?
There is a company whereby all its employees I see are from somewhere near the Indian ocean. The employer is a new immigrant who migrated from there. His employees are all of his kind with some exceptions also from overseas within asean.
But some of his employees are PRs having occupied positions here for several years liao.
[b]My question for the day is thus, TECHNICALLY, LEGALLY, can a person run a business employing purely PRs and FTs only?
Please advise, if u are able. [/b] -
WahOriginally posted by eagle:if cannot, there's such a "secret" practice in sg that the employer submit that this sgrean is being employed by his company and is paying the sgrean full salary, when in fact, the employer only pays the CPF, and the supposedly sgrean isn't working at all... => paying for the use of the sgrean's name as being employed.
Got such things?
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Like that... can Singaporean downgrade to become PR (so no need to go for reservist).
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win-win situation for both employer and "worker" mahOriginally posted by maggot:Wah
Got such things? -
Hi formmers (this includes PRs and citizens ),
for purpose of discussion,
hypothetically, lets say population is 500.
assume unemployment rate is actually, oh...such a sensitive word...hmm...lets use a nice round number say 5% AND!!!!!!!!!!!! this STATISTICS is purely based on unEMPLOYED CITIZENS / TOTAL ADULT CITIZENS less disabled and sick and students. This means 25 unemployed citizens. (where 25/500 * 100 = 5%)
That is a clear 5% who is unemployed right?
Now, Assuming I tweak this equation using my sub-O-Lever mathematics to:
unEmployed RESIDENTS / TOTAL Adult RESIDENTS ...
....where RESIDENT = PR + citizen.
What will be the new unemployment rate ? <<------ !!
Assuming , now we add 500 PRs into the Population,
the equation becomes :
25 / (500+500) * 100 = ???
The answer is 2.5% unEmployment rate.
The mudder of all question today for you intellectuals is :
1. How is the unEmployment rate actually measured?
2. Will unemployment rate drop when citizen unemployment rate increase but at the same time PRs increase even more?
Can you pass my sub O-Lever mathematics quiz???
Answer me , if you are able.
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PRs = citizens - reservists => Citizens = PRs + reservists
understand??? don't tell me you don't know???
PRs are citizens whom do not need to do any stupid reservists and enjoy their life here...
Citizens are PRs here whom stay at a longer time compared to PRs.. so they need to do stupid reservists and waste their time protecting the PRs instead of working and climbing the corporate ladder...
so PRs/(Citizens - reservists) = Population in a company
So if citizens got so many reservists, it adds burden to the company and waste other people time and resources, so as reservists --> infinity, poplulation of a company will make up of 99.99% PRs and 0.01% citizens... My current and previous company, and my friends' companies are make up of more than 75% PRs and FTs, less than 25% citizens...
so good luck to the next generation aka your kids... i think it's better to downgrade to PRs here... no need reservists and can go back to hometown when earn enough good luck to poor citizens -
Nope. Can't see any legislation that mandates hiring of citizens.
But then, who in their right mind will? CPF needs to be paid, and getting employment passes is ridiculously easy. Also for males, there is a need for them to disappear for up to 2 weeks a year into some godforsaken dontknowwhere camp. -
fully agree... hr will employ people who benefit the company... like no cpf contribution, no ICT, no burden, easy to control...Originally posted by rooki:Nope. Can't see any legislation that mandates hiring of citizens.
But then, who in their right mind will? CPF needs to be paid, and getting employment passes is ridiculously easy. Also for males, there is a need for them to disappear for up to 2 weeks a year into some godforsaken dontknowwhere camp.
nowadays so easy to get PRs, to get FTs... easy like sh1tting -
Where I have gone to, they treat PRs and citizens the same except PRs cannot hold political office and vote and I think that's perfectly reasonable....Originally posted by royston_ang:Like that... can Singaporean downgrade to become PR (so no need to go for reservist).
Sillypore has a long way to go to being 1st world....like what someone said before, Sillypore is only 1st world in terms of facilities but 3rd world in terms of their attitude towards foreigners and all the apathy, kiasuism...how pathetic....but its going to be like that for a long time to come, thanks to the MIW -
PRs need to put money into CPF also, don't forget.Originally posted by rooki:Nope. Can't see any legislation that mandates hiring of citizens.
But then, who in their right mind will? CPF needs to be paid, and getting employment passes is ridiculously easy. Also for males, there is a need for them to disappear for up to 2 weeks a year into some godforsaken dontknowwhere camp.
So, don't worry. Not just citizens put money into CPF every single month.
So nice right?
So, why no one needs to worry that more PRs less CPF.
I think more PRs, more money goes into CPF.
Some more, PRs require to hold a job.
Thus by PR, implicitly , virtually means employed - their employers pre-arrange everything.
Thus, looking at my assumed equation for a hypothetical scenario,
you can tell what is the effect of increased PR on unemployment rate. -
Does USA mandates it?Originally posted by rooki:Nope. Can't see any legislation that mandates hiring of citizens.
.
Does Australia mandates it?
Does EUROPE mandates it?
All above are 1st Worlds, don't forget.
Does Japan and S.Korea mandates it?
You mean there is no compulsory hiring of citizens in your country?
Is there a difference between PRs and citizens?
I wonder... -
Maybe this situation is EXACTLY what the PEOPLE want?
I usually very careful what I wish for.
but the People had indeed made the decision. -
Seriously, if a country really sucks that badly, would foreigners even bother to be PRs to work here? They are not forced to be a PR and work here you know?Originally posted by Seven_Dragon:fully agree... hr will employ people who benefit the company... like no cpf contribution, no ICT, no burden, easy to control...
nowadays so easy to get PRs, to get FTs... easy like sh1tting -
are you aware that many PRs have used here as stepping stone to work in europe and usa?Originally posted by eagle:Seriously, if a country really sucks that badly, would foreigners even bother to be PRs to work here? They are not forced to be a PR and work here you know?
are you aware that many come here primarily because they were looking for job or some already out of job floating around and happen that there are agents here looking for resource and can apply their PR for them?
PR is based on employers and a job.
Many PRs have told me, they don't like the working style and quality of life here. Even those from the indian ocean.
They are here for things like work primarily and you need to ask of the number of PRs here, how many converted to citizen?
Many but so too is the number of PRs -- into the hundreds of thousands.
you should ask the percentage of conversion.
are you more clear now? -
s'pore not the best, but also not the worst for FTs...Originally posted by eagle:Seriously, if a country really sucks that badly, would foreigners even bother to be PRs to work here? They are not forced to be a PR and work here you know?
just like one night stand... shoot and forget... earn $$$ enough then move on -
How can we know is it really true that
a company need not hire any citizen so long as they hire PR residents, asking from a technical and legal point of view.
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Who qualifies to apply for PR?
MCQ:
1. As long as a foreigner can get a job earning at least 2000 or 2500 here. His employer will help him apply for PR in the way of proving that he is employed. Sample jobs : technician, factory worker, Sales, accounts assistants, IT personnel, Engineering assistants, .
2. Only the rare talents of the world.
3. Only PhDs and Doctors and lawyers and accountants and financial managers.
4. Fund managers with excellent track record, olympic level athletes, solution architects, inventors, Chief X Officers, Biomedical scientists, Surgeons, Experts.
Your answer is : ? -
Can or not? I might consider, especially if I am intending to live in a country overseas for business or work for mid to long term.Originally posted by royston_ang:Like that... can Singaporean downgrade to become PR (so no need to go for reservist).
Its always good idea to learn from our FTs and new immigrants. They can teach us alot.
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I don't think its possible to do that. But if you found a way, don't forget to share with us.Originally posted by royston_ang:Like that... can Singaporean downgrade to become PR (so no need to go for reservist). -
My Malaysian PR who has studied, worked and married sg'lian girl here and have children here have stayed here for at least 15 years says this :Originally posted by eagle:Seriously, if a country really sucks that badly, would foreigners even bother to be PRs to work here? They are not forced to be a PR and work here you know?
THERE IS NO INCENTIVE TO CONVERT TO PR.
Meaning : Being a PR is very much like being a citizen in many ways.
So, he does not find a reason to convert.
I also think he is waiting for something to be dangled in front of him 1st then he will consider. -
Originally posted by reddressman:
Correct in a sense PR is like similar to a citizen but the only thing is second generation PR need to serve NS. Some of the PR parents chose to let
My Malaysian PR who has studied, worked and married sg'lian girl here and have children here have stayed here for at least 15 years says this :
[b]THERE IS NO INCENTIVE TO CONVERT TO PR.
Meaning : Being a PR is very much like being a citizen in many ways.
So, he does not find a reason to convert.
I also think he is waiting for something to be dangled in front of him 1st then he will consider.
[/b]
their children gave up their PR before reaching eighteen. -
Just this statement alone you won't be able to prove right now. Why? Cuz reminds me of MM Lee directing this question to that reporter: How many is many? Did you do a survey? What is your survey size? etc etcOriginally posted by reddressman:Many PRs have told me, they don't like the working style and quality of life here. Even those from the indian ocean. (lol not at you, but at MM Lee)
But seriously, you can't just put this claim forward without a proof.
Well, my language teachers (german and jap, and if you want, I can get an email survey for you anytime) in NUS are from overseas, and the main reason they come to work and teach in Singapore is because they like it here. Exceptions, or is it the norm? I won't say it because it is only a few of these people that I know.
Of course not all PRs like it here... Many are forced to work here. PRCs that come on MOE scholarships have a 6 year bond. So do many other scholarships that get students from India, China, and etc. But some of these scholars that I know do like it here and planned on staying here to start a family. Some, as you have said, are using here as a stepping stone to hope to work in the US in the future.Originally posted by reddressman:
No incentive to convert to PR? Or you mean no incentive to convert to citizen?
My Malaysian PR who has studied, worked and married sg'lian girl here and have children here have stayed here for at least 15 years says this :
[b]THERE IS NO INCENTIVE TO CONVERT TO PR.
Meaning : Being a PR is very much like being a citizen in many ways.
So, he does not find a reason to convert.
I also think he is waiting for something to be dangled in front of him 1st then he will consider.[/b] -
yes that is correct understanding of my colleague situation.Originally posted by will4:Correct in a sense PR is like similar to a citizen but the only thing is second generation PR need to serve NS. Some of the PR parents chose to let
their children gave up their PR before reaching eighteen.
He is 34, and has 2 kids and a HDB condo in sg near a good property value estate. He die die does not want to buy a car. He says its insane to pay so much for a car when he can get for cheap for the same. Much like he can get a BWM for a normal saloon car here. He finds it ridiculus to own a car here.
But he also always try to remind people that he can afford a car but does chose not to.
He keeps telling colleagues who are also FTs that there is no need for him to drop his precious malaysian citizenship given that, I quote him say, sg is very small and future can be anything. Work can be very tough for citizens. If he keep Malaysia passport, he still can go back if things turn bad here. His wife is 100% sg'lian. His sisters are also like him. PRs but enjoying the benefits they can get out of PR ship. By keeping his MY citizen and using his PR ship, he is enjoying the BEST of both worlds. Unfortunately, Sg'lians do not have this advantage. In addition to their having to spend 2 or 2.5 years (older batch) while competing with these hundreds of thousands of PRs just like him.
This is a fact. While same age youths of Malaysia come in to Sg to study, our boys are serving. These Malaysians are ahead by 2 to 2.5 years already. They stand to gain in terms of currency exchange when they work . While our boys keep getting recalled , these PRs continue to gain salary without disruption. This continues until many many years. By then, the My counterparts have already gotten married while you are just starting out. Then, you face the indons, the filips and the indians.
He is merely 1 example.
Hundreds of thousands and more like him are in and coming to sg to enjoy what is given.
I cannot blame them.
This is the way the system is made to be.
And sg'lians the Majority are all for this.
Congrats and Enjoy!
I initiate my backup plan.
@$%@$%% ccbtlb lky ks!