Latest Catch for Singapore
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Start a new thread on Australia and pollution then. This topic is on Singapore at the moment . That's my suggestion to you .Originally posted by Daddy!!:the worst polluters in the world trying to teach pollution -
1) Having plenty of NUS uni student in this forum doesnt neccessary means that you you will definitely have access to the article because you are not and never was a NUS student.Originally posted by fymk:If I am lying , I would not tell people to go and look for the full paper in the library , would I? There are plenty of uni students lurking in the forums who can easily access the paper online.
My main inference is simple - it adds to the pollution factor areas surrounding Jurong Island and Tuas - where is the nearest towns ? Jurong and Boon Lay.
If those lichens are absorbing those heavy metals from the air - what do you think people there are breathing?
There is another paper in Social Indicators Research on residents in Jurong West which state pretty clearly about what some residents think of the air quality there.
2) I am sure there are plenty of reseach and studies done on air pollution, but what I am more interested to know is what fact do you have to support your arguement that refinery in Singapore is harmful for people living in Jurong and boon lay.
3) Why specifically talk about oil refinery only? What about shipping industries and traffic pollutions highlighted in the report? Are you saying that refinery is the biggest contributor? -
i am simply amazed that really got people that shameless. -
For question 1: Simple fact about most reputable universities and NUS being one of them - they will subscribe to superdatabases and make it accessible to their students regardless of the discipline. Heck , the two Australian universities I studied in make these superdatabases available to their students. I expect nothing less of NUS.Originally posted by Gazelle:1) Having plenty of NUS uni student in this forum doesnt neccessary means that you you will definitely have access to the article because you are not and never was a NUS student.
2) I am sure there are plenty of reseach and studies done on air pollution, but what I am more interested to know is what fact do you have to support your arguement that refinery in Singapore is harmful for people living in Jurong and boon lay.
3) Why specifically talk about oil refinery only? What about shipping industries and traffic pollutions highlighted in the report? Are you saying that refinery is the biggest contributor?
For question 2: I was commenting about environmental impact management. If you bothered to look back at the posts - I was commenting to Lazerlord and sghardie jumped in denying the facts that there is pollution.
For question 3: Because sghardie chose to ask me to prove that the refineries cause pollution. I am merely going along with his focus. I am pretty sure any secondary school student knows the answer.
So my question to you : Yes or No again . Do refineries create pollution? We are going to come back to it. -
Now tell me : Do refineries cause pollution?Originally posted by Daddy!!:i am simply amazed that really got people that shameless.
We are talking about Singapore now. If I want to talk about Australia - I usually go to Australian forums or enter a thread which pinpoints it. -
then why are you using your time talking about Singapore now instead of Australia where you are the worst polluters in the world?Originally posted by fymk:Now tell me : Do refineries cause pollution?
We are talking about Singapore now. If I want to talk about Australia - I usually go to Australian forums or enter a thread which pinpoints it. -
In case you don't know, I still hold Singaporean citizenship. So kindly explain how I am the worst polluter in the world?Originally posted by Daddy!!:then why are you using your time talking about Singapore now instead of Australia where you are the worst polluters in the world?
And my question to you again : Do oil refineries cause pollution? This is regardless of whether a oil refinery is in Singapore or Australia or UK or USA. -
i remember u told me that you were not from Singapore and not a Singaporean.Originally posted by fymk:In case you don't know, I still hold Singaporean citizenship. So kindly explain how I am the worst polluter in the world?
And my question to you again : Do oil refineries cause pollution? This is regardless of whether a oil refinery is in Singapore or Australia or UK or USA. -
Originally posted by fymk:
fymk it seems like you are incapable of adding anything more to the research paper (you claims to have access, read and understand) other than talking about
For question 1: Simple fact about most reputable universities and NUS being one of them - they will subscribe to superdatabases and make it accessible to their students regardless of the discipline. Heck , the two Australian universities I studied in make these superdatabases available to their students. I expect nothing less of NUS.
For question 2: I was commenting about environmental impact management. If you bothered to look back at the posts - I was commenting to Lazerlord and sghardie jumped in denying the facts that there is pollution.
For question 3: Because sghardie chose to ask me to prove that [b]the refineries cause pollution. I am merely going along with his focus. I am pretty sure any secondary school student knows the answer.
So my question to you : Yes or No again . Do refineries create pollution? We are going to come back to it. [/b]
a) what we already know from the internet
b) who could possibily have access to the paper.
Is that all you are capable of? -
Your memory is wrong then. Feel free to show me the thread where the above statement is made.Originally posted by Daddy!!:i remember u told me that you were not from Singapore and not a Singaporean.
I entered Australia from Singapore as an Australian PR. That would answer your question.
Now back to the question again : Do oil refineries cause pollution or not? -
Is that all you are capable of? Not answering a simple question?Originally posted by Gazelle:fymk it seems like you are incapable of adding anything more to the research paper (you claims to have access, read and understand) other than talking about
a) what we already know from the internet
b) who could possibily have access to the paper.
Is that all you are capable of?
I said already - you have the info to find that paper - so go read it and see what it says.
The answer is pretty clear in that paper. That is all I will say. -
oil refinery technological advancement and investments shall determine pollution levels.Originally posted by fymk:Your memory is wrong then. Feel free to show me the thread where the above statement is made.
I entered Australia from Singapore as an Australian PR. That would answer your question.
Now back to the question again : Do oil refineries cause pollution or not? -
If the answer is so clear to you, why cant you comment anything about the paper other than what is already available on the internet?Originally posted by fymk:Is that all you are capable of? Not answering a simple question?
I said already - you have the info to find that paper - so go read it and see what it says.
The answer is pretty clear in that paper. That is all I will say. -
But still oil refineries will still emit pollutants into the air , yes or no?Originally posted by Daddy!!:oil refinery technological advancement and investments shall determine pollution levels. -
Be happy to discuss with you when you read the full paper itself. Otherwise , I shan't bother to say any more.Originally posted by Gazelle:If the answer is so clear to you, why cant you comment anything about the paper other than what is already available on the internet? -
yesOriginally posted by fymk:But still oil refineries will still emit pollutants into the air , yes or no? -
Thank you for that answer.Originally posted by Daddy!!:yes -
Spoon-feeding is not a good thing. A research paper is designed to bring about different conclusions based on your prior background.Originally posted by Gazelle:fymk it seems like you are incapable of adding anything more to the research paper (you claims to have access, read and understand) other than talking about
a) what we already know from the internet
b) who could possibily have access to the paper.
Is that all you are capable of? -
it is normal for people to avoid commenting on something they dont know or pretend to know.Originally posted by fymk:Be happy to discuss with you when you read the full paper itself. Otherwise , I shan't bother to say any more. -
Read the full report then talk to me.Originally posted by Gazelle:it is normal for people to avoid commenting on something they dont know or pretend to know.
See if you can access this.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/r705027j141r1n20/fulltext.pdf
Until then, we have nothing to discuss. -
then pls highlight the part that you have done.Originally posted by Gazelle:looking down? no lah, just want to highlighting that air pollution problem is everywhere and Singapore government is already doing its part to ensure that chemical plants are located away from the main island, in places such as pulau bukum and jurong island.
being insensitive and provocative is not going to get you anywhere. -
Why beat around the bush about this artible with all the copyright, restricted access excuse when this article is available to the public?Originally posted by fymk:Read the full report then talk to me.
See if you can access this.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/r705027j141r1n20/fulltext.pdf
Until then, we have nothing to discuss.
Information is power? -
you put words in my mouth, as you twist and turn trying to get yourself out of embarrassment.Originally posted by fymk:The article states clearly that there are pollution in certain industrialised areas of Singapore which Sghardie is disputing. Sghardie is claiming that there is NO (meaning zero) pollution at all in Singapore and that those fuel plants do not cause pollution at all.
You come across an article written by NUS researchers using lichens as bioatmospheric monitors/indicators of heavy metal pollution in the air in certain areas of Singapore. Apparently that's all you know. In responding to the investments mentioned by Gazalle in this thread, you use this to question the environmental impact management of the petroleum industries in Singapore, thereby implying that the "latest catch for Singapore" , like the refineries, are at the expense of polluting the air in Singapore.
You later presented an extract from the article stating that "Peak concentrations of zinc, copper and lead in lichens were found at Sembawang, Jurong and the National University of Singapore campus which are locations associated with heavy petroleum and shipping industries, and road traffic respectively." You highlighted heavy petroleum industries, to substantiate your claim that petroleum industry is causing pollution.
Zinc and copper are essential elements that exist in plants and animals. These two metals exist everywhere, in different forms. The presense of these metals does not constitute pollution. Air is contaminated or polluted only when excessive amount of such metals or any other particles are present in the atmosphere. The NUS report indicates that the peak concentrations of these metals were found at Jurong etc., peak means the highest in comparison to other areas in Singapore. But does the report say that the concentration of any one metal or all combined exceed the max level allowable (5mg/Nm3 for copper, don't know about Zinc), which could and should raise alarm for actions to reduce the level or there could be adverse impact on human health??? You are putting words into the mouths of the researchers.
Shame on you.
The normal pollutants of air are SO2, oxides of nitrogen, ozone, carbon monoxide, lead, ..... carbon monoxide is emitted into the air every min as cars run on the road. Is it polluting the air? yes, why then we don't ban the cars from the road?
Doesn't your mother pollute the air when she burn CH gas to cook, or is she using charcoal?
Doesn't your mother pollute the water when she discharges dirty water into the sewer?
Doesn't your mother pollute the land when she dumped all her rubbish in front of the house every evening?
She is obviously guilty, by your definition of pollution. But, in the real world, the emission from her cooking does not reach the concentration to harm anybody. Dirty water will pollute if it is not treated before discharged into the sea or river. Rubbish will pollute the earth if not incinerated, buried or appropriately dealth with.
We have laws and regulations setting limits to control the emission from refineries, factories and vehicles, we monitor air quality to ensure that under normal circumstance, our air quality is good enough for all Singaporeans to have a clean environment. Singapore is still known to be a clean garden city state, despite of the refineries, power generation plants, chemicals plants...
Is there pollution in Singapore? I never said no. But is it under control? Most of the time. sometimes air quality index exceeded 100 when wind blows the smoke from indonesia, so? We don't stop refineries and power plants from operating, or ban all cars from the road. Rolls Royce is still prepared to invest millions to build the second aircraft engines assembly plant here, the first outside UK, why? because they have confidence in us.
I can understand, for many people like you who wish to see singapore going down, investment leaving us, singaporeans migrating... the news of some big catch for Singapore irks you. Such feeling of sour grapes is not uncommon, but only among those who are very narrow minded.
go live you life down under, here we are having celebrations
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Originally posted by Gazelle:Why beat around the bush about this artible with all the copyright, restricted access excuse when this article is available to the public?
Information is power? I like the way you are playing around with her. you know you are not going to get any sensible reply. -
Hey don't look at me . You are the one who demanded the proof that refineries cause pollution.Originally posted by sgdiehard:you put words in my mouth, as you twist and turn trying to get yourself out of embarrassment.
You come across an article written by NUS researchers using lichens as bioatmospheric monitors/indicators of heavy metal pollution in the air in certain areas of Singapore. Apparently that's all you know. In responding to the investments mentioned by Gazalle in this thread, you use this to question the environmental impact management of the petroleum industries in Singapore, thereby implying that the "latest catch for Singapore" , like the refineries, are at the expense of polluting the air in Singapore.
You later presented an extract from the article stating that "Peak concentrations of zinc, copper and lead in lichens were found at Sembawang, Jurong and the National University of Singapore campus which are locations associated with heavy petroleum and shipping industries, and road traffic respectively." You highlighted heavy petroleum industries, to substantiate your claim that petroleum industry is causing pollution.
Zinc and copper are essential elements that exist in plants and animals. These two metals exist everywhere, in different forms. The presense of these metals does not constitute pollution. Air is contaminated or polluted only when excessive amount of such metals or any other particles are present in the atmosphere. The NUS report indicates that the peak concentrations of these metals were found at Jurong etc., peak means the highest in comparison to other areas in Singapore. But does the report say that the concentration of any one metal or all combined exceed the max level allowable (5mg/Nm3 for copper, don't know about Zinc), which could and should raise alarm for actions to reduce the level or there could be adverse impact on human health??? You are putting words into the mouths of the researchers. Shame on you.
The normal pollutants of air are SO2, oxides of nitrogen, ozone, carbon monoxide, lead, ..... carbon monoxide is emitted into the air every min as cars run on the road. Is it polluting the air? yes, why then we don't ban the cars from the road?
Doesn't your mother pollute the air when she burn CH gas to cook, or is she using charcoal?
Doesn't your mother pollute the water when she discharges dirty water into the sewer?
Doesn't your mother pollute the land when she dumped all her rubbish in front of the house every evening?
She is obviously guilty, by your definition of pollution. But, in the real world, the emission from her cooking does not reach the concentration to harm anybody. Dirty water will pollute if it is not treated before discharged into the sea or river. Rubbish will pollute the earth if not incinerated, buried or appropriately dealth with.
We have laws and regulations setting limits to control the emission from refineries, factories and vehicles, we monitor air quality to ensure that under normal circumstance, our air quality is good enough for all Singaporeans to have a clean environment. Singapore is still known to be a clean garden city state, despite of the refineries, power generation plants, chemicals plants...
Is there pollution in Singapore? I never said no. But is it under control? Most of the time. sometimes air quality index exceeded 100 when wind blows the smoke from indonesia, so? We don't stop refineries and power plants from operating, or ban all cars from the road. Rolls Royce is still prepared to invest millions to build the second aircraft engines assembly plant here, the first outside UK, why? because they have confidence in us.
I can understand, for many people like you who wish to see singapore going down, investment leaving us, singaporeans migrating... the news of some big catch for Singapore irks you. Such feeling of sour grapes is not uncommon, but only among those who are very narrow minded.
go live you life down under, here we are having celebrations
Kudos on redefining the meaning of pollution. However the dictionaries won't agree with you. We are all guilty of pollution in some way, especially if you drive a car . However an individual cooking and doing normal chores can't compare to the quantity of emissions by oil refinery. Incineration of rubbish also pollutes the air.
Ai yo, so defensive again. You were the one who asked for proof that refineries cause pollution. I gave proof via NUS researchers. Period. Nothing more , nothing less. Your own fallacious quote below:You highlighted heavy petroleum industries, to substantiate your claim that petroleum industry is causing pollution.
Claim substantiated. Ask any scientist if petroleum industry will have some form of pollution - all will say yes. Even Daddy!! agreed that oil refinery emits some form of pollutants.
And for questioning the environmental impact management - why not? No one has been answering the question but some of you choosing to go on the offensive.
Well , as far as I am concerned , with a person who claims to be Singaporean, you are a fine example of genetic pollution with your logic. Why did you think even another forumner , rooki ,went so kindly to explain to you what those industries emit ?
The reason why I asked is because I used to live in Jurong when I was young.
So until you live there everyday of your life . Talk to me .