another ex-colleague has quitted singapore
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Some ppl will start a flame war bcos he simply got nothing to do.Originally posted by Gazelle:some people are born to be a sheep, they will believe whatever people say without asking.
Anyway, instead of trying to prove what other ppl is wrong, why not come out with some constructive ideas that can help singapore to improve? Or do u really think sg is already at its peak and do not need any improvement at all?
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To help Singapore improve? After LKY, the first thing we as Singaporeans must do is to give PAP with at least 80% of our votes in case crazy people like chee, atobe and monkey yap come around to de-stabilise the country. ppl in sgforums are propaganda-ing peasants' revolution mentality. Good try but it is doomed to fail because many of the commoners who studied and worked hard in Singapore made it, period.Originally posted by SpeedStar:Some ppl will start a flame war bcos he simply got nothing to do.
Anyway, instead of trying to prove what other ppl is wrong, why not come out with some constructive ideas that can help singapore to improve? Or do u really think sg is already at its peak and do not need any improvement at all? -
If you have no interest in the subject of discussion, please shut up and dont simply make accusation that others are here to star a flame war.Originally posted by SpeedStar:Some ppl will start a flame war bcos he simply got nothing to do.
Anyway, instead of trying to prove what other ppl is wrong, why not come out with some constructive ideas that can help singapore to improve? Or do u really think sg is already at its peak and do not need any improvement at all?
So what have you contributed to this thread? You have just start a flame war by making silly comments about others? -
If everyone think like u, singapore is deem to failure. Y all out of so many ppl u choose chee? omg!!Originally posted by Daddy!!:To help Singapore improve? After LKY, the first thing we as Singaporeans must do is to give PAP with at least 80% of our votes in case crazy people like chee, atobe and monkey yap come around to de-stabilise the situation.
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lim beh want to discuss what things ai li huan lo? Get out from here?? who u think u r?Originally posted by Gazelle:If you have no interest in the subject of discussion, please shut up and dont simply make accusation that others are here to star a flame war.
So what have you contributed to this thread? You have just start a flame war by making silly comments about others?
From making stupid comment in bar to SC, u really sound like a school kid. Ur comment here further confirm what i have think of u. Good luck in trying to defend the idea of singapore u wanted to portrait. I am not interested to waste my time arguing with ppl like u cos i got other better thing to do. -
this is coming from someone who accuse me of starting a flame war.Originally posted by SpeedStar:lim beh want to discuss what things ai li huan lo? Get out from here?? who u think u r?
From making stupid comment in bar to SC, u really sound like a school kid. Ur comment here further confirm what i have think of u. Good luck in trying to defend the idea of singapore u wanted to portrait. I am not interested to waste my time arguing with ppl like u cos i got other better thing to do.
classic!!!
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Originally posted by Daddy!!:
Right, you have all these, and apparently this is all important to you, so you feel "shiok". Good for you then. Well then there are those who feel that they are struggling to maintain many of the comforts they have here. Some are even struggling to maintain what you stated above.(but thats another topic)
I have my [b]SUN.
shiok.
I have my MONEY.
shiok.
I have my HOUSES.
shiok.
I have my WIFE and CHILDREN.
shiok.
[/b]
But then some of them started to realise, "Oh ok, I can actually have the same level of comfort if not higher, in another place, with the skills that I have." Then they start to weigh the pros and cons. -
Just because it isn't fair to bring down Singapore, it makes it perfectly logical, fair and justifiable to bring down Australia to drive home your point? What sort of warped logic is that?Originally posted by strikefreedom:Not contradicting cos overall on this migrating issue, i think it is not fair to bring down singapore and say another country is way better then here when they couldn't see the dirty linens of that country at all.
safety will defintely be a point i will take note no matter which place i have in mind to go to after all you do want to compromise your dear one lifes for some luxury.
Much as you wish to remain delusional, safety is obviously not the be-all-and-end-all concern that ultimately decides where you go - because if it did, I'd expect you to be emigrating to Antartica or North Korea. -
Originally posted by maurizio13:
Pardon my directness, but your reply is irrelevant at best and dumb at worst.
If you so choose not to be classified under Animal Kingdom, you have 4 more choices under the British system of nomenclature, they are:
(Animalia, Plantae, Fungi, Protista, Bacteria) Take your pick.
Do you prefer to be a plant, fungus, protist or bacteria?....
It serves no purpose nor enhance your credential by doing cut/paste/push/past courtesy of Wiki-pedia, while skirting around my question and finally coming back with a contradictive conclusion against the original poster!
Don't get it? Allow me to simplify the agenda:
He said
".. same logic as taking a domesticated bird and setting it free in the wild, the domesticated bird will not survive too long in the wild..."
You said
"... Singapore is a tough place, which makes it more enticing to emigrate to other easier countries.
So which one of you is correct? OR collectively, both of you are infering that migrating Singaporeans are weak-non-domesticated birds who cannot endure "hardship" of Singapore and can only survive in the wild???
So, PLEASE refrain from using the analogy of domesticated animals or fungi growth with human migration, especially in Singapore's context.
Coz only human commit the act of suicide when survival gets tough not animals and, certainly not in fungal kingdom.
Speaking of suicide, here's a WHO URL with figures from Australia & Singapore at per 100,000
http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide_rates/en/index.html -
Interesting figures. In total, not a substiantial difference in figures, just more more females in SG.Originally posted by Gun:Speaking of suicide, here's a WHO URL with figures from Australia & Singapore at per 100,000 http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide_rates/en/index.html[/color] -
With the greatest respect, I think many of the issues you mentioned are peripheral. I could go on by telling you shopping bags aren't free in supermarkets in Germany either, but that doesn't make their service standards inferior to Asian countries just because they value environmental conservation more than Asians do.Originally posted by eagle:I don't know about Aust, but if you compare outside food in Germany, the following is what I have noticed:
1) The price is definitely much higher. However, the amount of meat is also much higher.
2) The outside price is about same price as, or even cheaper than, Jack's Place in Singapore (which is already much higher than food court). However, the portions are larger. Hence, eating out is actually cheaper than in Singapore if you like western food or lots of meat.
3) Most cheaper food in Singapore are mainly a source of carbs and trans-fats. Not exactly a very healthy diet.
In addition, supermarket prices of food stuff (meat, dairy products) are mostly the same, if not cheaper, than in Singapore. Only the vegetables are sometimes twice as expensive => which is still at a rather low price as compared to the meat and other things that you would buy.
To put your views in perspective, you may argue that a meal at McDonald's in London would easily set you back the equivalent of SGD10.00. That said, have you ever considered the minimum wage in the UK is £5.75 (SGD17.25) an hour? That translates to you being able to grab yourself a McDonald's meal for roughly half an hour's work. Could you do the same in Singapore if you were working at minimum wage levels (take the wages of the lowest-tier jobs imaginable given this regime doesn't have minimum wage) even though a meal costs just £2? -
I have my SUN HERE.Originally posted by Jontst78:Right, you have all these, and apparently this is all important to you, so you feel "shiok". Good for you then. Well then there are those who feel that they are struggling to maintain many of the comforts they have here. Some are even struggling to maintain what you stated above.(but thats another topic)
But then some of them started to realise, "Oh ok, I can actually have the same level of comfort if not higher, in another place, with the skills that I have." Then they start to weigh the pros and cons.
COLD OVER THERE is SUFFERING. -
it is sad sg lose another talent to other country.
tell your colleagur there are thousands q up to replace him/her.
plus 10,000 SPR renounce their home countries citizenships and
Table: PR granted by region in 2006
Nationality
Granted PR in 2006,Total 57,310,
Out of these new citizens, about 73% were PRs when they were granted citizenship. The rest of the new citizens were minors who do not need to obtain PR status first in order to be eligible for citizenship under the Constitution...
join the red dot club as permanent members..
WE ,CITIZENS OF SINGAPORE.....
WELCOME GUYS..
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All he is doing is to discourage people to migrate.Originally posted by SpeedStar:Forget about arguing with that bugger. He just simply want to prove that singapore is better than other countries, instead proving any constructive ideas. See his post in SC and u will know -
Thanks, Jontst78, for the insightful info.Originally posted by Jontst78:On a sidenote,
If anyone is looking to go to Australia.
Finding a job there first and then applying PR in Australia is not the way to go. Or rather not the recommended way to go, unless you have substantial savings to last you at least half a year of unemployment while job hunting there.
Its a labor law there, that an employer must give jobs first to citizens and PRs, only after being unable to find suitable person for some time, then they(the employer) can justify to the government, to permit hiring a foreigner.
The recommended way to go is to apply for PR here. Do the points test, if you think you qualify, try for an application. Do this while in Singapore. You can get it approved and receive it while being in Singapore the whole time.
http://www.immi.gov.au
http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/visa-options-495.htm
Skilled Occupation List (SOL), Sydney and Selected Areas Skill Shortage List (SSASSL)
http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1121i.pdf
Alternatively, you can use an agent. Dun get conned tho. Dun go to an agent that ask for more than 4k (excl govt fees). And go to one that is registered with the Australian immigration authority. Usually you will get a free initial consultation to check your eligibility.
Total legal and Govt fees, incl medical checks and english exam is around a little under 4k SGD. If you get an Agent, around 3k, total cost is around 7k give or take a little.
There are agents will refund 50%(or some) agent fees if your app is not approved (not due to paper work error on part of the agent). If agent makes error, full refund.
Basically, certified technical and skilled people will get a rather high advantage. Eg plumbers, carpenter, civil engineers, IT professions, nurses, doctors, accountants, electricians.
My uncle who is a citizen in Sydney would say, "if you are a plumber, electrician or carpenter, you walk in" but thats a slight exaggration of course.
Its a labor law there, that an employer must give jobs first to citizens and PRs, only after being unable to find suitable person for some time, then they(the employer) can justify to the government, to permit hiring a foreigner.-----> With PAP gahmen in Singapore this will never be possible. The gahmen of Aus cares for the people first before any foreigners, they exercise their responsibility to protect the interest and rice bowl of the people there. Over here, the sickening gahmen cares for FTs more than the locals. This is reason enough for people to migrate to Aus. -
Doubt he dares make suggestion for fear of offending his idol, PAP.Originally posted by SpeedStar:Some ppl will start a flame war bcos he simply got nothing to do.
Anyway, instead of trying to prove what other ppl is wrong, why not come out with some constructive ideas that can help singapore to improve? Or do u really think sg is already at its peak and do not need any improvement at all? -
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
And then regain their citizenship again under dual citizenship recognition.
it is sad sg lose another talent to other country.
[b]tell your colleagur there are thousands q up to replace him/her.
plus 10,000 SPR renounce their home countries citizenships and
join the red dot club as permanent members..
WE ,CITIZENS OF SINGAPORE.....
WELCOME GUYS..[/b] -
I think you put it in better words than me. In short, wages in Germany is much higher than here, prices of their staple food is same, if not cheaper, than here. In addition, housing is also cheaper per unit land area, working hours are also shorter. Each employee is given at least 30 days of annual leave a year, and they have more public holidays than Singapore. Germany's education is also heavily subsidized, although they have made it mandatory to pay 500 euros per semester from this semester onwards in the uni. However, Germany's economy is not lagging at all, but growing, even with so many benefits; their economy is the 3rd largest in the world, after US and Japan. Their ministers are also not as highly paid as Singapore's, yet they can manage their big country just as well, if not better. Unemployment rates are also falling. All these facts are gotten from my module in economics over there in Germany by professor Rürup.Originally posted by walesa:With the greatest respect, I think many of the issues you mentioned are peripheral. I could go on by telling you shopping bags aren't free in supermarkets in Germany either, but that doesn't make their service standards inferior to Asian countries just because they value environmental conservation more than Asians do.
To put your views in perspective, you may argue that a meal at McDonald's in London would easily set you back the equivalent of SGD10.00. That said, have you ever considered the minimum wage in the UK is £5.75 (SGD17.25) an hour? That translates to you being able to grab yourself a McDonald's meal for roughly half an hour's work. Could you do the same in Singapore if you were working at minimum wage levels (take the wages of the lowest-tier jobs imaginable given this regime doesn't have minimum wage) even though a meal costs just £2?
Fyi, regarding the plastic bags, you only need to pay for the plastic bags in the major supermarkets. Minor supermarkets or shops continue to provide free plastic bags to customers. -
whether people migrate a not, it is ultimately their decision. However, for people who migrated to send complains of Singapore back to Singapore, it is to meOriginally posted by qlqq9:All he is doing is to discourage people to migrate.
1) a sign of mocking of people who want to stay here
2) a sign that they are rich enough to migrate
3) a sign that they are trying to justify their own actions, both to others and most importantly, to themselves
Of course, they may have valid reasons, or have done substantial analysis and calculations for their decision.
For me, my stand is neutral. I would base my calculations and conclusions on hard facts then on opinions. No matter how much I proclaim that the living standards are higher in Germany, there are certain things that you cannot really calculate, for eg, whether you can merge into the society, whether you will be despised, your friends, family, children, etc.... There are still many unexpected and intangible factors around -
I'm 25 and i'm currently pursuing a degree in accountancy @ SIM...frm RMIT...Originally posted by fishbuff:just got the news that another ex-colleague of mine is quitting SG and emigrate to australia. Both a singaporean and a smart business IT analyst, he too was fed up with the local system,sell off everything and move over. All together, this is the 3rd person that i worked with that had taken the plunge of moving overseas.
i hope there will be more singporeans to take the challenge and move overseas, since the current situation is not in the favour of the citizens, it is best to make alternate plans now..
I've another 1.5 years left, and honestly i'm also thinking of finding wrk in Melbourne upon graduation...
It's not for me to say wether the aussie system is better than SG or not cos quite honestly i can only do that once i've experienced the lifestyle there...
But frm the feedback that i've recved frm frens who r studying or wrking there...it has so far been positive...they say its alot better than SG
I've one fren who'll be completing his poly and moving over to pursue his degree @ QUT in queensland and hopes to find wrk there after that...
Another fren of mine will grad frm NTU and wld like to move to Brisbane to find wrk...incidentally his gf is currently studying there too...
Honestly i fear for my job prospects after i grad...i'm not only gonna be fighting with foreigners but also NTU, NUS & SMU grads to secure a job here...
Moreover i'm begining to find that the wrk culture is getting more and more hectic nowadays...i find frens and relatives complaining to me that they dun even have time to spend with thier family cos of overtime or wrk...
Moreover the government is considering bringing the population to 6.5 million in years to come...with the foreign population already @ the 1 million mark...it's gonna get worst...and with the amount of construction going on all over the island...i seriously wonder if SG is gonna run outta land sumtime in future...
I guess its up to one's individual decision as to migrate or not...u can call us losers or wat not but if the grass is greener on the other side then its best to pack yur backs and leave...
I guess its best to test water 1st...no pnt just dissing SG altogether and saying aussieland is great...i'll probably wrk there a few years and see the situation...maybe i might come back...maybe i might not...it all depends... -
The SUN is setting on the WEST
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Make yourself mobile globally. However you have to be prepared to adapt and start from square 1.Originally posted by In_Between_Days:I'm 25 and i'm currently pursuing a degree in accountancy @ SIM...frm RMIT...
I've another 1.5 years left, and honestly i'm also thinking of finding wrk in Melbourne upon graduation...
It's not for me to say wether the aussie system is better than SG or not cos quite honestly i can only do that once i've experienced the lifestyle there...
But frm the feedback that i've recved frm frens who r studying or wrking there...it has so far been positive...they say its alot better than SG
I've one fren who'll be completing his poly and moving over to pursue his degree @ QUT in queensland and hopes to find wrk there after that...
Another fren of mine will grad frm NTU and wld like to move to Brisbane to find wrk...incidentally his gf is currently studying there too...
Honestly i fear for my job prospects after i grad...i'm not only gonna be fighting with foreigners but also NTU, NUS & SMU grads to secure a job here...
Moreover i'm begining to find that the wrk culture is getting more and more hectic nowadays...i find frens and relatives complaining to me that they dun even have time to spend with thier family cos of overtime or wrk...
Moreover the government is considering bringing the population to 6.5 million in years to come...with the foreign population already @ the 1 million mark...it's gonna get worst...and with the amount of construction going on all over the island...i seriously wonder if SG is gonna run outta land sumtime in future...
I guess its up to one's individual decision as to migrate or not...u can call us losers or wat not but if the grass is greener on the other side then its best to pack yur backs and leave...
I guess its best to test water 1st...no pnt just dissing SG altogether and saying aussieland is great...i'll probably wrk there a few years and see the situation...maybe i might come back...maybe i might not...it all depends...
Another thing for what's it is worth - prepare for the culture shock - people here are very vocal. Alot of things function differently . When it is your credit , don't let others take it. The first two years are the hardest imho because you are struggling to find your base and adapt. .
Find support with friends you already know but don't just stay within the Singaporean community because you will be isolating yourself from their culture. Join your colleagues for afterwork drinks - that is the best way of networking . And their weddings are fun - almost everyone gets drunk cept for the designated drivers who look very pissed off because they can't drink.
Don't think life is laid back all the time in Australia - alot of people have the misconception that working in Australia is laid back. It is yet it is not . People here tend to be laid back when they can but when it comes to the crunch , some work 7 day weeks sometimes to meet deadlines. -
The EARTH rotates EAST
Leaving or fleeing?
The mental attitude determines which. -
What is the population of the Sporen community in Australia?Originally posted by fymk:Make yourself mobile globally. However you have to be prepared to adapt and start from square 1.
Another thing for what's it is worth - prepare for the culture shock - people here are very vocal. Alot of things function differently . When it is your credit , don't let others take it. The first two years are the hardest imho because you are struggling to find your base and adapt. .
Find support with friends you already know but don't just stay within the Singaporean community because you will be isolating yourself from their culture. Join your colleagues for afterwork drinks - that is the best way of networking . And their weddings are fun - almost everyone gets drunk cept for the designated drivers who look very pissed off because they can't drink.
Don't think life is laid back all the time in Australia - alot of people have the misconception that working in Australia is laid back. It is yet it is not . People here tend to be laid back when they can but when it comes to the crunch , some work 7 day weeks sometimes to meet deadlines. -
Since you say this.Originally posted by fishbuff:just got the news that another ex-colleague of mine is quitting SG and emigrate to australia. Both a singaporean and a smart business IT analyst, he too was fed up with the local system,sell off everything and move over. All together, this is the 3rd person that i worked with that had taken the plunge of moving overseas.
i hope there will be more singporeans to take the challenge and move overseas, since the current situation is not in the favour of the citizens, it is best to make alternate plans now..
I also happen to know quite many who have recently started the process to withdrawn their CPF entirely, pre-retirement.
These are 2 highly experienced doctors who brought away with them human capital of their children. As docs , they have many children becos they could afford it.
Now, both docs are in a very nice place. A huge mansion with many real nice views. No longkangs whatsoever kind of views.
Last year, a young white collar acquaintance also started the withdraw cpf
process with his wife. They now also enjoying sceneries and weather that money , no matter how much, cannot buy. For example, can you turn a humid place into not-as-humid? even if you are Billy the Gate, money cannot buy you better humidity. Not to say wonders that nature has to offer. Reasons why people spend thousands every year and risk lives taking the plane just to grab a few breath of this nature's fresh air. I mean people going on vacation lah.
So, enjoy lah.