Unlikely to happen here, but Â…
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Unlikely to happen here, but Â…
P N Balji
Editorial Director
THE thought must have struck every concerned Singaporean, not just the Indian Singaporean: Can the boiling over of years of pent-up emotions, anger and frustration of the ethnic Indian community in Kuala Lumpur happen here?
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The instantaneous answer I got from the 10 people I spoke to since that Sunday street march: Very unlikely.
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The reasons went something like this: The community is not doing as badly, the firm arm of the law will not allow such a march to take place, the well-off Indian Singaporeans will not fight for their less well-off brothers and, most importantly, Singapore doesn't have a policy similar to Malaysia's bumiputera policy.
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But as the conversations went a little deeper, not everyone was convinced that everything is fine with the community. Top of the list is the view that a social and income divide is becoming pronounced and this gap is under-reported because for every failure there is a success to shout about.
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Whether it is in the Cabinet or in the very visible professions like law and journalism, the Indian community's achievements cannot be disputed.
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Similarly, the entry of high-calibre Indians from outside Singapore into top-end jobs in private banking and hedge funds has turned the attention away from the plight of the less well-off.
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Two recent experiences are enough to reveal the palpable sense of impact the entry of these expatriates is bringing about here.
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At a reception held recently, I was introduced to a roomful of expat Indians. And, oh boy, was I surprised! There was the macro economist from JP Morgan, another from Morgan Stanley, and yet another from BNP Paribas. But the most memorable introduction was to this entrepreneur who owns four banks in India and has a stake in a sovereign wealth fund-linked company.
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They came across as articulate, bright and extremely confident of themselves and what they can bring to the table.
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It seems the presence of these high-calibre Indians is being felt in our upmarket shops, restaurants, condos, movie theatres and tourism destinations like Sentosa and the Night Safari, all of which are on a charm offensive to get a slice of their business.
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The next example should show the extent of this group's reach.
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An Indian Singaporean woman related this incident of how she was pleasantly surprised by the royal attention she got from a salesgirl at Tangs. She understood the reason an hour later, when the salesgirl asked: Are you an expat?
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Such stories can unwittingly screen from the public domain the struggle of the one- and two-roomers. Yes, there are similar struggles among the Chinese and the Malays. But what sets the Indian community apart is its inherent divides.
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Unlike the Chinese and Malays, the Indians are not bonded by a common language, religion or even a common colour. Of the three, the biggest hindrance in having a good fix of the problems of the less well-off is language. The Malay professionals will tell you how important language is in breaking the ice with the one- and two-roomers in their community.
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Language is a leveller. It helps not just to communicate but to also gain the confidence and trust of the people you deal with.
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That, plus the fact that two of Singapore's closest neighbours are mainly Muslims, have helped to focus national attention on the Malays. And the progress the community has made is there for all to see.
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For the lower segment of the Indian community to get that kind of attention, we need more concerned Indian professionals, both local and expatriate, who can speak the language, understand the undercurrents and have an acute empathy for their plight to come out and articulate openly and responsibly the real problems this section of the community faces.
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And, if necessary, roll up their sleeves and come together, like the Association of Muslim Professionals did as a parallel group to Mendaki, 16 years ago.
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The 10 Singaporeans are correct. An Indian street march like the one that took place in KL is very unlikely to take place here. It is unnecessary, too.
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But that doesn't mean the not-so-well-off in the community don't need more help.
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The community, and Singapore as a society, can only benefit with more hands being stretched out to make sure that no one misses the boat of prosperity. -
Wait, don't we have something called SINDA? I'm Indian, born and bred in SG making me a 3rd generation Singaporean, and can attest that there is a division but it's there mainly due to distrust and not barriers like language and cultural differences.
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Hi.... would like to understand more.Originally posted by Demonight:Wait, don't we have something called SINDA? I'm Indian, born and bred in SG making me a 3rd generation Singaporean, and can attest that there is a division but it's there mainly due to distrust and not barriers like language and cultural differences.
As a 3rd generation Singaporean Indian.... what would your view be of -
1) The problem of division among the race in S'pore - Example '' I feel there is a 50% division''
2) Have you felt discrminated in S'pore
No worry.... me not from PAP or NGO or any such things..... just like to know how the other race feel about S'pore. No harm if you don't feel like answering. Thxs
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1) Do you mean the division among Indians or division among ALL the races?
2) Hell yea
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1) yesOriginally posted by Demonight:1) Do you mean the division among Indians or division among ALL the races?
2) Hell yea
Thxs.... -
errrmm..'Yes' to which option? I'll answer the division among all the races for now...I think it has to do with people not having common ground upon which to discuss grievances due, once again, to language and the racial discrimination that is passed down from generation to generation. I had an upstairs neighbour who thought that it was fine to teach his daughter to call an indian a 'keling' (and probably other more derogatory words).
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When I was in a local school I remember all the kids (they were no older than
discriminating against the indian kids. The Chinese kids and Malays got along fine except for the Indians, don't know why. Until today I still see Singaporeans of all ages being racially intolerant of them.
Yes I have been discriminated against because I'm not Singaporean. -
Caste-based discrimination and barriers persist in Indian society. ItÂ’s against the principles of secularism and democracy.
Plus the British policies of divide and rule contributed towards the hardening of caste caste system, like the British class system.
IÂ’ve heard others say that the Indians are more British than the British.
Get rid of the the caste system and social status consciousness and others will be able to accept Indians.
Similarly, Singapore governmentÂ’s practice of elitism is also a contributing factor to other forms of discrimination, besides racial discrimination.
If Singapore gears towards a democratic society, and itÂ’s principles adhered to, racial division and other forms of discrimination came be overcome with time.
Not easy, eh?
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In my sec sch days the malays and indians would band togetherOriginally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:When I was in a local school I remember all the kids (they were no older than discriminating against the indian kids. The Chinese kids and Malays got along fine except for the Indians, don't know why. Until today I still see Singaporeans of all ages being racially intolerant of them.
Yes I have been discriminated against because I'm not Singaporean. -
Kids being kids, they tend to stick to their kind for familiarity and acceptance.Originally posted by Demonight:In my sec sch days the malays and indians would band together
What we see in KL is a different playground and differnt players.
Yes, there will be race difference and ethnic tension in any society.
It is how to manage and who is in control that matters.
UK has it own share of serious race-based violence involving South Asians (aka ethinic Indians) as recent as 2001 and those were stroke by politics and class difference, not unlike the recent KL demo.
Sad thing for Malaysian, this can get out of control by internationalising it.
The bumi/muslim will not tolerate this open challenge by minorities and those few agitators.
Good thing is a different PM is incharge. If this had occured during Dr M era, the response could be more than just another "Black Eye".
Last word: New Dehli should keep its hands out off KL.
Period. -
Don't know why you conclude that the division is due to distrust. Personally I think it is due to language and cultural differences.Originally posted by Demonight:Wait, don't we have something called SINDA? I'm Indian, born and bred in SG making me a 3rd generation Singaporean, and can attest that there is a division but it's there mainly due to distrust and not barriers like language and cultural differences.
Generally, english speaking Singaporeans get along ok regardless of race. There are many non english speaking Chinese in singapore, and if they know another language, it would be malay rather than tamil. That's when you see the chinese and malay getting on. I know of Indian family who speak very good hokkian in malaysia and they mixed very well with the chinese there.
Because they can't speak to one another, they cannot understand one another, anything about the respective culture comes from guessing. That doesn't help in trusting one another. When I met the indian who spoke mandarin in KL, I had a different feeling, a warmer one, not because of anything he did, just felt that since he understood mandarin, he understand me well as a local chinese. This warm feeling doesn't exist when I meet a mainland Chinese there, because from past experience the mainland chinese do not understand overseas chinese very well.
Today, when you meet a local Chinese and an indian from india for the first time, before you have the opportunity to communicate, who would you trust more, the local chinese or the indian from india?? -
Hmm.. seriously, is there some place I can learn to understand/speak Tamil??Originally posted by sgdiehard:Don't know why you conclude that the division is due to distrust. Personally I think it is due to language and cultural differences.
Generally, english speaking Singaporeans get along ok regardless of race. There are many non english speaking Chinese in singapore, and if they know another language, it would be malay rather than tamil. That's when you see the chinese and malay getting on. I know of Indian family who speak very good hokkian in malaysia and they mixed very well with the chinese there.
Because they can't speak to one another, they cannot understand one another, anything about the respective culture comes from guessing. That doesn't help in trusting one another. When I met the indian who spoke mandarin in KL, I had a different feeling, a warmer one, not because of anything he did, just felt that since he understood mandarin, he understand me well as a local chinese. This warm feeling doesn't exist when I meet a mainland Chinese there, because from past experience the mainland chinese do not understand overseas chinese very well.
Today, when you meet a local Chinese and an indian from india for the first time, before you have the opportunity to communicate, who would you trust more, the local chinese or the indian from india??
I'm not being sarcastic really, I know of one Chinese many years ago who speaks Tamil fluently, I he made MANY sales to Indian customers because of that!
In sales line, most salemen would frantically avoid serving Indian customers ..
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I was talking about divisions within the indian community, not amongst the races, being attributed to distrust.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Don't know why you conclude that the division is due to distrust. Personally I think it is due to language and cultural differences.
Generally, english speaking Singaporeans get along ok regardless of race. There are many non english speaking Chinese in singapore, and if they know another language, it would be malay rather than tamil. That's when you see the chinese and malay getting on. I know of Indian family who speak very good hokkian in malaysia and they mixed very well with the chinese there.
Because they can't speak to one another, they cannot understand one another, anything about the respective culture comes from guessing. That doesn't help in trusting one another. When I met the indian who spoke mandarin in KL, I had a different feeling, a warmer one, not because of anything he did, just felt that since he understood mandarin, he understand me well as a local chinese. This warm feeling doesn't exist when I meet a mainland Chinese there, because from past experience the mainland chinese do not understand overseas chinese very well.
Today, when you meet a local Chinese and an indian from india for the first time, before you have the opportunity to communicate, who would you trust more, the local chinese or the indian from india?? -
that we will need to let the indians tell us, why are there distrust within the indian community? due to different languages, hindi and tamil? how different are your cultures?Originally posted by Demonight:I was talking about divisions within the indian community, not amongst the races, being attributed to distrust. -
It has more to do with morals and ethics. My family has experienced first hand, many times, being conned in business by our own people. How to do business and build trust when you can't even adhere to the common goal of building and sustaining a business? The other argument is the difference in languages and practices, as well as the stereotypes held by some indian communities about other indian communities (like sikhs love anal sex and use ghee as a lubricant OR that tamils beat their wives and drink alot). The ways we get married, to use another example, differs from culture to culture as well.Originally posted by sgdiehard:that we will need to let the indians tell us, why are there distrust within the indian community? due to different languages, hindi and tamil? how different are your cultures?