Where is the source of funding for pay and bonus hikes?
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Does a cost center provide the funding?
the effect of being a large landlord and the effect of money on loyalty.
not that i mean money can buy loyalty or sell loyalty. let you decide.
what is the justification that a hike policy applies to all ? I mean, does all deserve the same base hikes?
Like this , anyone also can. Free inflow. Easy. effortless. almost sick!
And who is funding this?
Money no come from the sky.
kllbccb.
what a rhyme! -
From ST forum. Ms Lee says
Civil servants should be seen to earn their bonuses
I REFER to the recent announcement on bonuses for the civil service.
May I ask whether all civil servants are paid largely the same three months plus $220 for good performers and 3.3 months plus $220 for better performers?
What criteria distinguish not-so-good performers from 'good' and 'better' ones, or is the floor grade 'good' and therefore the minimum payout is three months plus $220?
While stress levels and rewards between the public and private sectors remain hotly debatable, use of public funds should be subject to transparent benchmarking against performance. Certainly, I have yet to hear of the private sector paying bonuses in July, December and March.
I do not begrudge deserving civil servants a bonus, but they should be seen to earn it, like the rest of us. This begets accountability, as distinct from the politics of envy.
The private sector best rewards those with value-creation and problem-solving skills, while poor performers face warnings, pay cuts and dismissal.
With salaries in the public sector already benchmarked against those in the private sector, the public expects no less than an efficient civil service.
The private sector does not expect to follow the public sector's lead in bonus payouts, with SMEs citing soaring rentals, increased costs and the need to save for a rainy day.
With the Government and government-linked companies as Singapore's largest landlord, is the public sector's bonus being squeezed out of the private sector?
Indeed, it lends credence to the iron-rice-bowl perception of government service.
Does the public consider staff of, say, the Land Transport Authority and HDB to have earned their bonuses? Do they even deserve a bonus?
Lee Soon Chin (Ms)
Latest comments
Lol! I am really quite surprised the writer can even suggest that govt don't pay bonus. Seriously, if the govt wants to pay peanuts, all you get are monkeys and the economy will go back to 3rd world status.
Posted by: MadLiverpoolFan at Sat Dec 01 17:15:09 SGT 2007
get the facts right before launching attack...civil servants are not getting 3 months bonus. It is just 13th month plus one month bonus. Compared to last year, it is actually lesser. If you talk about fairness, is it then right that bank tellers who are not doing anything more tedious than a frontline service staff in govt dept entitled to a whoppy 3-6 months bonus when time is good in banking sectors?? And, there is no more such thing as iron rice bowl in govt service for goodness sake!
Posted by: cutebaby at Sat Dec 01 17:10:32 SGT 2007
#4 And some of us who have been in govt svc for a quarter century do know. On balance, civil servants tend to move towards the line of least resistance - least effort, least time, least risk, least responsibility. There are exceptions (false humility prevent 'moi' from raising hand), but generally these give up or get the chop.
Posted by: chiabb at Sat Dec 01 13:23:15 SGT 2007
This is one of the Governments PLOY to divert attention from the public of the seriousness of our plight given the continuous price icreases of almost ALL basic essentials like, rice, sugar, flour(bread), petrol, cooking gas, hawkers' food, .......the list can go on and on.......
By declaring that the economy is good and Civil servants "deserves" fat bonuses is not going to go well with the FRUSTRATING public.
We should all show our DISSATISFACTION with the government's lame action, if any, to stamp the increase of basic essentials.
Unfortunately we cannot do what the ethnic Indians did in Malaysia. So the next best thing is to THINK MORE CAREFULLY WHEN YOU VOTE!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: dragonovic93 at Sat Dec 01 12:55:21 SGT 2007
Wa Lao what's the problem in paying extra bonus to under achievers?
No problem, gahmen got lots of money from tax payers. If they need more just increase GST, personal or other taxes, prices of HDB houses, erect a few more ERP gantries, etc..... "foreign talents" and scholars are never out of ideas.... to s**** the poor private-sector working public.
VOTE FOR PAP and become POORER AND POORER.
Posted by: WEESWEEPOH at Sat Dec 01 12:41:49 SGT 2007 -
If I am right about this, only certain superclass officers get 3 months. If you are below the grade of a certain superclass officer - you get 1 month extra only.Originally posted by reddressman:Does a cost center provide the funding?
the effect of being a large landlord and the effect of money on loyalty.
not that i mean money can buy loyalty or sell loyalty. let you decide.
what is the justification that a hike policy applies to all ? I mean, does all deserve the same base hikes?
Like this , anyone also can. Free inflow. Easy. effortless. almost sick!
And who is funding this?
Money no come from the sky.
kllbccb.
what a rhyme! -
so fast forget ar u? GST 5% to 7%??
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singaporeans get higher bonus and salaries, you also complain. WTF.
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i think opposition jia chao liao.
like this sure win.
and who is funding this goodie? -
what do you think are the major trends for singapore, assuming current status ie same govt and same influx of FTs?Originally posted by reddressman:i think opposition jia chao liao.
like this sure win.
and who is funding this goodie? -
Originally posted by Daddy!!:what do you think are the major trends for singapore, assuming current status ie same govt and same influx of FTs?
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From the people's taxes and retirement savings obviously as the ministers and civil servants do not use their own monies or create any incomes on their own. If they do they will be taking profits under all kinds of schemes like the options and share issues etc to themselves.Originally posted by reddressman:Does a cost center provide the funding?
the effect of being a large landlord and the effect of money on loyalty.
not that i mean money can buy loyalty or sell loyalty. let you decide.
what is the justification that a hike policy applies to all ? I mean, does all deserve the same base hikes?
Like this , anyone also can. Free inflow. Easy. effortless. almost sick!
And who is funding this?
Money no come from the sky.
kllbccb.
what a rhyme!
The only way the ministers and civil servants can pay themselves is to use the taxes, and citizens' savings and surplus tax monies to do so.
Originally there was no fear for the CPF monies belonging to the people were even producing higher returns. Over the years the leaders use the HDB and other schemes to charge people higher and higher prices to create hidden surpluses amounting to billions and these billions were always available for payments to higher bonuses and salaries and life pensions as they were not declared in annual budgets or accounts.
So instead of using these billions from hidden surpluses kept by HDB SLA URA etc, for medical and retirements they just say there are not enough monies to pay for people's retirements and people must now pay premiums to create their own retirements beyond 85.
So it is very clear why our CPF monies are now not enough ? Because billions were paid towards 3-6 months' bonuses, life pensions and the inflated salaries from the hidden undeclared surpluses not reported in annual budgets which even ex-president Ong Teng Cheong was unable to get.
So if government says our CPF or the taxes were not enough it is because they have to be set aside to pay as dividends to ministers to support more and more rewards to ministers and civil servants.
not enough !!! -
you get it wrong. all guess work.Originally posted by robertteh:From the people's taxes and retirement savings obviously as the ministers and civil servants do not use their own monies or create any incomes on their own. If they do they will be taking profits under all kinds of schemes like the options and share issues etc to themselves.
The only way the ministers and civil servants can pay themselves is to use the taxes, and citizens' savings and surplus tax monies to do so.
Originally there was no fear for the CPF monies belonging to the people were even producing higher returns. Over the years the leaders use the HDB and other schemes to charge people higher and higher prices to create hidden surpluses amounting to billions and these billions were always available for payments to higher bonuses and salaries and life pensions as they were not declared in annual budgets or accounts.
So instead of using these billions from hidden surpluses kept by HDB SLA URA etc, for medical and retirements they just say there are not enough monies to pay for people's retirements and people must now pay premiums to create their own retirements beyond 85.
So it is very clear why our CPF monies are now not enough ? Because billions were paid towards 3-6 months' bonuses, life pensions and the inflated salaries from the hidden undeclared surpluses not reported in annual budgets which even ex-president Ong Teng Cheong was unable to get.
So if government says our CPF or the taxes were not enough it is because they have to be set aside to pay as dividends to ministers to support more and more rewards to ministers and civil servants.
not enough !!! -
you idiots are just that.. IDIOTS!!
you begrudge the working hack civil servant their pay..
because you are TOO STUPID to differentiate between politicians and civil servants?
you are way too stupid than i gave you discredit for...
stupid stupid stupid stupid! -
The ministers and civil servants do not have to find monies unlike private sector enterprises to pay for provisions of services or their own salaries.Originally posted by Daddy!!:you get it wrong. all guess work.
This fact was admitted by ex top civil servant Mr. Ngiam Tong Dow after he retired from civil service and became head of HDB Corp (after reconstituted from the former loss-making HDB) when he said he for the first time had to worry where to find monies to pay his staff's salaries at the end of every month.
So monies had to be taken from somewhere to pay ministers' and civil servants' handsome self-approved rewards of all kinds like the NKF right as this is a confirmed fact.
Where the monies come from? Taxes, Surpluses (monies not spent on provisions of medical and other essential services) and Citizens' CPF savings and all the capital gains and interests from investments from people's lands and assets) -
how old are you? you dont seem to know how singapore's economy work.Originally posted by robertteh:The ministers and civil servants do not have to find monies unlike private sector enterprises to pay for provisions of services or their own salaries.
This fact was admitted by ex top civil servant Mr. Ngiam Tong Dow after he retired from civil service and became head of HDB Corp (after reconstituted from the former loss-making HDB) when he said he for the first time had to worry where to find monies to pay his staff's salaries at the end of every month.
So monies had to be taken from somewhere to pay ministers' and civil servants' handsome self-approved rewards of all kinds like the NKF right as this is a confirmed fact.
Where the monies come from? Taxes, Surpluses (monies not spent on provisions of medical and other essential services) and Citizens' CPF savings and all the capital gains and interests from investments from people's lands and assets) -
Looking at the situation,
I see only 1 thing :
HK liao!
Really really HK Liao!
Thanks to the Mandate.
This year the reddress uncle will be singing "HK liao HK liao HK all the way!"
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The topic is not about economics or what I know about economics. This topic about ministers approving their own bonuses or rewards is of great concern to citizens as many of them are not even getting any bonuses or at the most only the 13th month. So they have the right to ask whether ministers or anyone in position of trust like the government or NGOs have the right to approve their own salaries, bonuses or life pensions in the manner that is being done here in the little red dot.Originally posted by Daddy!!:you get it wrong. all guess work. -
A large amount of money goes towards paying the civil servants' salaries.
This is where the govt can greatly reduce the public expenditure. The country don't need so many civil servants, especially the top echelons.
By reducing its strength, they can contribute in the private sector, thus relying less on foreigners.
Those who disagree, pls give reasons. -
I agree with this. Being a civil servant, especially one on the lower echelons, is not as easy as many seem to think.Originally posted by the Bear:you idiots are just that.. IDIOTS!!
you begrudge the working hack civil servant their pay..
because you are TOO STUPID to differentiate between politicians and civil servants?
you are way too stupid than i gave you discredit for...
stupid stupid stupid stupid! -
It is not difficult to see army officers and civil servants in the public sector who are nowadays paid $6,000 - $15,000 pm for doing routine sinecure jobs.
Self-interests and self-rewards and self-serving people in charge of the government.
Just because initially during a short period in 1970s when the economy was enjoying a boom, the leaders have come up with a public sector salary upgrading and restructuring to keep up with the rewards in the private sector.
So the leaders began year after year to come up with all kinds of salary reviews and restructuring for the public sector.
An ordinary executive is given not only salary increments by hundreds but also enjoying promotional upgrading. Thus through a combination of both salary restructuring and position upgrading many ordinary executives including teachers and officers have had their remunerations pushed from $1,500.00 pm to $8,000.00 pm. A school principal has his salary pushed from $5,000.00 pm to $15,000.00 pm
It is not difficult to see whole department like the HDB consisting of senior officers each earning between $3,000 pm to S$15,000.00 just to do paperwork or carrying out standard routines without even making of any decisions like the private sector. All the bill collector civil servants are getting overpaid.
It was so serious that HDB was losing $900 million in 2002 and government as a result of complaints and public criticisms had to retrench majority of these officers paying them 45 months golden hand shakes in the process costing huge losses to the taxpayers.
Such over-payments of public sector salaries were now happening to the army, town council and many government departments.
The ordinary citizens do not get this kind of monies like $3,000 pm to $8,000 pm just to do desk or sinecure bill-collector jobs.
That is why many schools especially the privately funded schools cannot afford to pay their teachers the government rates so had resorted to employing adjunct teachers at half or one third the normal government teachers' salaries.
Government had to start chopping the fats of all the overpaid civil servants saving million dollars of wasted salaries which can put to good use like lowering the costs of medical cares of retirements.
It was all caused by ministers losing touch with what is going on in the private sector as they kept thinking that the private sector employees are paid higher throughout the period when it was far from true.
Now the public sector employees are definitely enjoying a good time with many officers's salaries pushed up three times while private sector equivalents dropping by up to 50%.
Yet NWC run by government ministers continue to dish out increments and government keep creating promotional positions calling mundane jobs senior and principals or mayors or CEOs without regard to wasting taxpayers' monies.
No wonder citizens cannot afford retirements and all have to work till they drop dead because of such over-spending of their hard earned monies. -
most educated singaporeans received good pay rise and bonuses. a minority of educated singaporeans don't.Originally posted by robertteh:The topic is not about economics or what I know about economics. This topic about ministers approving their own bonuses or rewards is of great concern to citizens as many of them are not even getting any bonuses or at the most only the 13th month. So they have the right to ask whether ministers or anyone in position of trust like the government or NGOs have the right to approve their own salaries, bonuses or life pensions in the manner that is being done here in the little red dot. -
either you are not a singaporean or you are a propaganda-ing. totally out of touch with the reality of singapore's economy.Originally posted by robertteh:It is not difficult to see army officers and civil servants in the public sector who are nowadays paid $6,000 - $15,000 pm for doing routine sinecure jobs.
Self-interests and self-rewards and self-serving people in charge of the government.
Just because initially during a short period in 1970s when the economy was enjoying a boom, the leaders have come up with a public sector salary upgrading and restructuring to keep up with the rewards in the private sector.
So the leaders began year after year to come up with all kinds of salary reviews and restructuring for the public sector.
An ordinary executive is given not only salary increments by hundreds but also enjoying promotional upgrading. Thus through a combination of both salary restructuring and position upgrading many ordinary executives including teachers and officers have had their remunerations pushed from $1,500.00 pm to $8,000.00 pm. A school principal has his salary pushed from $5,000.00 pm to $15,000.00 pm
It is not difficult to see whole department like the HDB consisting of senior officers each earning between $3,000 pm to S$15,000.00 just to do paperwork or carrying out standard routines without even making of any decisions like the private sector. All the bill collector civil servants are getting overpaid.
It was so serious that HDB was losing $900 million in 2002 and government as a result of complaints and public criticisms had to retrench majority of these officers paying them 45 months golden hand shakes in the process costing huge losses to the taxpayers.
Such over-payments of public sector salaries were now happening to the army, town council and many government departments.
The ordinary citizens do not get this kind of monies like $3,000 pm to $8,000 pm just to do desk or sinecure bill-collector jobs.
That is why many schools especially the privately funded schools cannot afford to pay their teachers the government rates so had resorted to employing adjunct teachers at half or one third the normal government teachers' salaries.
Government had to start chopping the fats of all the overpaid civil servants saving million dollars of wasted salaries which can put to good use like lowering the costs of medical cares of retirements.
It was all caused by ministers losing touch with what is going on in the private sector as they kept thinking that the private sector employees are paid higher throughout the period when it was far from true.
Now the public sector employees are definitely enjoying a good time with many officers's salaries pushed up three times while private sector equivalents dropping by up to 50%.
Yet NWC run by government ministers continue to dish out increments and government keep creating promotional positions calling mundane jobs senior and principals or mayors or CEOs without regard to wasting taxpayers' monies.
No wonder citizens cannot afford retirements and all have to work till they drop dead because of such over-spending of their hard earned monies. -
Try to prove what I said wrong with facts and figures as well.Originally posted by Daddy!!:either you are not a singaporean or you are a propaganda-ing. totally out of touch with the reality of singapore's economy. -
Do you agree that govt and glcs are the largest employers in singapore?Originally posted by robertteh:Try to prove what I said wrong with facts and figures as well. -
wow, you say like no buddy business.Originally posted by Daddy!!:most educated singaporeans received good pay rise and bonuses. a minority of educated singaporeans don't.
You have any concrete evidence to justify wat u assuming?
hk lah.
porper ganda' ing is it ?
are you also a george cloney? -
Do you agree that govt and govt linked companies are the largest employers in Singapore ?
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I am just thinking, if you are the one paid 15k doing routine sinecure job, will you complain?Originally posted by robertteh:It is not difficult to see army officers and civil servants in the public sector who are nowadays paid $6,000 - $15,000 pm for doing routine sinecure jobs.