ST: We can barely stay afloat, say low-income folk
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Reinstall partial protectionism since Singapore cannot depend on total protectionism like Australia.
Set a cap 3 Singaporeans : 1 foreigner for professional skilled jobs instead of the otherway around.
How the private companies want to do it is their perogative
Cut the ministerial salary : Transfer those money into providing education funds for the less fortunate on a case by case basis.
Temasek Holdings have so many major stake in overseas and local companies right? Start placing Singaporeans inside to gain experience overseas. Use the money recovered from salaries into encouraging those Singaporeans who are not as economically fortunate with others to go overseas for a stint. Set up a fund or whatever . So no more excuses for paying exhorbitant salaries for so called more globalised foreigners.
Those who can work - funding to upskill them and offset their education costs.
As for the elderly only, hard problem - set up a trust fund for those who are not fortunate enough to have families to look after them.
Provide more tax benefits to those who actually look after their elderly at home.
Just a rough idea , I have not polished anything here. I am not a fan for giving a man a fish to feed himself for one day but I do believe that the elderly are the only vulnerable group that needs some form of immediate assistance.
As for the reserves - keep some for a rainy day like global recession to tide Singaporeans over the period . -
I already mention.. Pls refer back! U still owe me an answer!Originally posted by the Bear:then where the hell will the money come from?
magic?
btw.. the reserves, if there are no taxes will be depleted so quickly
back to the question.. think..
because apart from the higher taxes, and a proper way of spending them, i have no other solutions...
you come up with one.. please... -
Yes, I also see that too. And I also see that it is not the Government helping them, but peasants offering the assistance.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Problem is that we're relying on a regressive tax to solve the gap, and so much PR spin has been put into that to lull people into believing that it'll work.
I see more people picking trash cans, and I find that I'm enjoying more free money. So it's not going right at all.
If the income disparity had not been that big, I believe people might have been more motivated and patriotic. No doubt everyone has a part to play from top to bottom, but if someone earns 30 times more than you, I'm pretty sure it does get in the way of most people's preception, the reality will glare at you. -
no it is not.. it is looking at other countries and looking at a bunch of VATs and all that..
as for increasing tax to pay for a lot of other things like your safety net and the welfare of those who slip through the cracks now, there are a lot of other things which are a consequence of increase in taxes...
employment will take a hit.. so will the cost of everything... and to add to the inflation caused by scarcity of products, there will be inflation caused a lot of other things like the cost of manpower, the cost of doing business...
now.. even a non-economist like me can think about these things, go think about them...
the MIW may be to blame... i think they are... but then, blaming them is not going to solve the problems...
just bloody remember the responsibility of a "democracy" to keep the politicians honest... that is something people in SC don't do.. they just sit, bellyache and worship charlatans who come up with hugeass theories which don't even start to imagine these poor people exist...
go out.. go question your MPs during the "Meet The People" sessions.. demand answers... they are your MPs.. they are supposed to serve the people... not the other way around.. and if you allow them to think you serve them, and keep quiet about it, you have failed the citizen's responsibility in true democracy..
now.. back to bread and butter issues...
what do you think can be done? and i'm talking about practical and things which we can do.. not some kind of "i pay 2% more and the MIW is to blame" solution...
real solutions...Originally posted by LazerLordz:If it means a safety net in my golden years should my finances go awry, I'm all for it.
Bear in mind that this level of taxation is commensurate with the PPP, GDP and purchasing power of that economy as well.
It is not a case of plucking that 30% income tax and 15%VAT and transplanting them in situ into the Singaporean economic context. -
2% and blaming the MIW is not an answerOriginally posted by zenden9:I already mention.. Pls refer back! U still owe me an answer!
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SIngapore gov is just like an unfillial son, asking parents to save plenty of money in bank and one day his elder parent sick and lie in hospital waiting for an expensive operation to save his life.. And the money never came! Cos the son say money is for the golden goose to atttract more interest...Originally posted by fymk:Reinstall partial protectionism since Singapore cannot depend on total protectionism like Australia.
Set a cap 3 Singaporeans : 1 foreigner for professional skilled jobs instead of the otherway around.
How the private companies want to do it is their perogative
Cut the ministerial salary : Transfer those money into providing education funds for the less fortunate on a case by case basis.
Temasek Holdings have so many major stake in overseas and local companies right? Start placing Singaporeans inside to gain experience overseas. Use the money recovered from salaries into encouraging those Singaporeans who are not as economically fortunate with others to go overseas for a stint. Set up a fund or whatever . So no more excuses for paying exhorbitant salaries for so called more globalised foreigners.
Those who can work - funding to upskill them and offset their education costs.
As for the elderly only, hard problem - set up a trust fund for those who are not fortunate enough to have families to look after them.
Provide more tax benefits to those who actually look after their elderly at home.
Just a rough idea , I have not polished anything here. I am not a fan for giving a man a fish to feed himself for one day but I do believe that the elderly are the only vulnerable group that needs some form of immediate assistance.
As for the reserves - keep some for a rainy day like global recession to tide Singaporeans over the period .
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suggest nothing can be done is a typical bear response!Originally posted by the Bear:2% and blaming the MIW is not an answer -
I posted my opinion.Originally posted by the Bear:go out.. go question your MPs during the "Meet The People" sessions.. demand answers... they are your MPs.. they are supposed to serve the people... not the other way around.. and if you allow them to think you serve them, and keep quiet about it, you have failed the citizen's responsibility in true democracy..
now.. back to bread and butter issues...
what do you think can be done? and i'm talking about practical and things which we can do.. not some kind of "i pay 2% more and the MIW is to blame" solution...
real solutions...
As for MPs , even if they did care , they can't do anything except use it in Parliament to wayang kulit.
Spoken to MPs before - vomit blood except for one fella who is now minister - he listens if you have an idea. -
that could be a way..
time for us to convince the idiots in power...
and convince the idiots who insist that "i pay 2% more... MIW is at fault" will solve everythingOriginally posted by fymk:I posted my opinion.
As for MPs , even if they did care , they can't do anything except use it in Parliament to wayang kulit.
Spoken to MPs before - vomit blood except for one fella who is now minister - he listens if you have an idea. -
I can't believe we paid so much for their services, and we have to do the jobs ourselves.
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Sometimes it is better to keep it in reserves for a reason - you cannot expect them to open the reserve unless there is something that affects the world like global recession.Originally posted by zenden9:SIngapore gov is just like an unfillial son, asking parents to save plenty of money in bank and one day his elder parent sick and lie in hospital waiting for an expensive operation to save his life.. And the money never came! Cos the son say money is for the golden goose to atttract more interest...
When global recession hits, everyone will know. Even the government cannot cover up global recession. -
Peppering the MP with questions isn't going to bring about change unless you have a solid weight behind you.Originally posted by the Bear:no it is not.. it is looking at other countries and looking at a bunch of VATs and all that..
as for increasing tax to pay for a lot of other things like your safety net and the welfare of those who slip through the cracks now, there are a lot of other things which are a consequence of increase in taxes...
employment will take a hit.. so will the cost of everything... and to add to the inflation caused by scarcity of products, there will be inflation caused a lot of other things like the cost of manpower, the cost of doing business...
now.. even a non-economist like me can think about these things, go think about them...
the MIW may be to blame... i think they are... but then, blaming them is not going to solve the problems...
just bloody remember the responsibility of a "democracy" to keep the politicians honest... that is something people in SC don't do.. they just sit, bellyache and worship charlatans who come up with hugeass theories which don't even start to imagine these poor people exist...
go out.. go question your MPs during the "Meet The People" sessions.. demand answers... they are your MPs.. they are supposed to serve the people... not the other way around.. and if you allow them to think you serve them, and keep quiet about it, you have failed the citizen's responsibility in true democracy..
now.. back to bread and butter issues...
what do you think can be done? and i'm talking about practical and things which we can do.. not some kind of "i pay 2% more and the MIW is to blame" solution...
real solutions...
Secondly, SC is a forum after all, what people do in their real lifes with regards to lobbying and policy critique may differ from what they may choose to display.
In any case, I have outlined my opinion and what I think could work on this whole matter. I am certainly not an economics student and perhaps there might be more knowledgeable people out there. -
Definitely.Originally posted by fymk:Sometimes it is better to keep it in reserves for a reason - you cannot expect them to open the reserve unless there is something that affects the world like global recession.
When global recession hits, everyone will know. Even the government cannot cover up global recession.
We're looking more for a calibrated form of welfare, not an open doors policy. -
Originally posted by zenden9:SIngapore gov is just like an unfillial son, asking parents to save plenty of money in bank and one day his elder parent sick and lie in hospital waiting for an expensive operation to save his life.. And the money never came! Cos the son say money is for the golden goose to atttract more interest...
sigh.... -
and... then?
read Dilbert...
so.. do what we have to do in a democracy and go take them to task...
ask.. keep asking....
use the vote...Originally posted by ^tamago^:I can't believe we paid so much for their services, and we have to do the jobs ourselves. -
I may be writing a paper for the MAS essay competition . See if they listen or not - the only problem is going around the million dollar salaries of ministers and making it disappear from the equation which is gonna be difficult.Originally posted by the Bear:that could be a way..
time for us to convince the idiots in power...
and convince the idiots who insist that "i pay 2% more... MIW is at fault" will solve everything -
so.. you are going say "it's not going to matter anyway" and just bellyache here?Originally posted by LazerLordz:Peppering the MP with questions isn't going to bring about change unless you have a solid weight behind you.
Secondly, SC is a forum after all, what people do in their real lifes with regards to lobbying and policy critique may differ from what they may choose to display.
In any case, I have outlined my opinion and what I think could work on this whole matter. I am certainly not an economics student and perhaps there might be more knowledgeable people out there. -
The problem is the citizen has already done their part by giving plenty of public taxes thru GST. Gov has plenty of channel to generate their fund and pool of reserves by Car/road taxes,heavy alcohol and cigarettes taxes. Singapore pools and many many more..
The question shall be shoot back, WHat can the gov do for us?
First thing to help reach out the poor is the public transport system! Lowering public transport fee as the first step.
Delist SMRT and nationalise it. Public transport is no a mean to generate profit and make shareholder happy(they claim increase fees becos of high expenses and yet they claim millions of profit and 2 digit jump in profit for the group)!
I dare to claim 90% of public transport user is poor and middle income(if u are rich u will be taking taxi or driving big cars)
Without the mean to generate profits and please shareholder. Those unneccessary huge millions of profit will channel back to masses by reducing fares. -
I'm saying that what you have suggested, may not breed effective policy change all the time. It depends on the types of policies commented on, and also the person that you are speaking to.Originally posted by the Bear:so.. you are going say "it's not going to matter anyway" and just bellyache here?
It is a realist statement, and an opinion.
You've always advocated respect for diversity of opinion, there you have it.
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The issue of million dollar salary is an ideological issue, and that's what makes it a prickly factor.Originally posted by fymk:I may be writing a paper for the MAS essay competition . See if they listen or not - the only problem is going around the million dollar salaries of ministers and making it disappear from the equation which is gonna be difficult. -
Yeah what to do? 66.6% let them into power.Originally posted by ^tamago^:I can't believe we paid so much for their services, and we have to do the jobs ourselves.
Nothing you can do now except write something up with a solid plan and then hope someone up there actually listen .
I don't like the government but I am pretty sure that within their faction - there are some that may care. -
Originally posted by fymk:I don't like the government but I am pretty sure that within their faction - there are some that may care.
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I think to effect change by the conventional ways it will take decades when we are not the ones in control of the process, and when token acts and lip service are free-of-charge.
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If you tell that to your MP , he/she may say ok then , you come up with a budget . And if your budget is negative - they will laugh at you .Originally posted by zenden9:The problem is the citizen has already done their part by giving plenty of public taxes thru GST. Gov has plenty of channel to generate their fund and pool of reserves by Car/road taxes,heavy alcohol and cigarettes taxes. Singapore pools and many many more..
The question shall be shoot back, WHat can the gov do for us?
First thing to help reach out the poor is the public transport system! Lowering public transport fee as the first step.
Delist SMRT and nationalise it. Public transport is no a mean to generate profit and make shareholder happy(they claim increase fees becos of high expenses and yet they claim millions of profit and 2 digit jump in profit for the group)!
I dare to claim 90% of public transport user is poor and middle income(if u are rich u will be taking taxi or driving big cars)
Without the mean to generate profits and please shareholder. Those unneccessary huge millions of profit will channel back to masses by reducing fares.
First of all - look at the overall taxes collected - the total amount.
Then look at how they divided it - how much goes into industrial planning? How much goes into economic development? How much goes into defence? How much goes into health? How much goes into Government linked investments? How much goes into transportation?
The biggest hole is always healthcare and welfare . How will you deal with rising medical technological costs ? How would u replace equipment? How would you deal with maintaining those patented equipment? How much subsidies are given? How much to maintain skilled staff - you cannot underpay them or else they leave for greener pastures and you end up wasting more money to replace people while experienced people are leaving.
Don't look at the small picture. Build on what you already have and balance the profit as well as the losses for the benefit of everyone. -
Yes. Another point of contention. Profits were justified by saying that it is to motivate the operators to improve. But to motivate the operator, you need to motivate the staff. Ain't all salaries accounted for before the profit? Then how does having more money around motivate the staff when they could see that they are not getting what they have worked for while peasants keep paying more.Originally posted by zenden9:First thing to help reach out the poor is the public transport system! Lowering public transport fee as the first step.
Delist SMRT and nationalise it. Public transport is no a mean to generate profit and make shareholder happy(they claim increase fees becos of high expenses and yet they claim millions of profit and 2 digit jump in profit for the group)!
I dare to claim 90% of public transport user is poor and middle income(if u are rich u will be taking taxi or driving big cars)
Without the mean to generate profits and please shareholder. Those unneccessary huge millions of profit will channel back to masses by reducing fares.
A portion of the profit went into purchase of new buses when their life spans are up, but sadly the extension of lifespans from 12 to 17 years only gives them extra revenue to combat inflation.