No Singaporean will go Hungry
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1) Are your saying electronic companies in Singapore has broken the labour law on foreign labour quota?Originally posted by Spartans:Let me quote an industry.
Most of the low income workers work in the manufacturing factories such as electonic factories. Here the skills required are not high. The influx of new foreigners are forcing these low skilled Singaporeans out of job/pay cut.
These workers, many are in middle-age, found it extremely hard to find another job due to their age and education level. Other similiar jobs at other factories are being filled up by foreigners instead of employing them.
Then in SC, we got people like Gazelle who have no empathy for them.
2) Are you not aware that Singapore government has been trying to boost the tourism, services and hospitality industry to provide jobs for the low skilled and uneducated Singaporeans.
3) Tell me what exactly you have done to help the poor, other than trying to be some super computer robinhood? -
1) How about those that were supposedly "employed a ratio of Singaporeans that is too high"? Or if they switched to using more machines instead of labour?Originally posted by Gazelle:1) Are your saying electronic companies in Singapore has broken the labour law on foreign labour quota?
2) Are you not aware that Singapore government has been trying to boost the tourism, services and hospitality industry so that those low skilled and uneducated Singapore will be able to find a job?
3) Tell me what exactly you have done to help the poor, other than trying to be some super computer robinhood?
2) No wonder people complain our service industry is bad and lousy and rude
3) Donate to Community Chest, since few years ago, and I'm still a student without any salary. -
To add on, their salaries are already very low. let say plus OT ie 7am to 7pm everyday including Sunday, their total pay is definitely less than $2000. Without OT is less than $1000.Originally posted by deathbait:And these pay cuts you speak of. Are they cut to the point where basic survival is impossible?
If the global economy supports X wages for a certain job, and you were being paid X+Y for doing it before the country embraced the global market, you are not getting a pay cut. Your pay is regressing to mean. Meaning you were OVERPAID before.
Actually, the government is to blame here, but no one pointed this one out. It should not have allowed the worker to be overpaid in the first place. This has created a "shock" in the worker's finances when the pay finally balances back to normal
Seriously, I believe for their efforts, they deserved more than these pathetic salaries. And they have families who depend on their tiny salaries to survive on. -
This minister always talk nonsense, he knows singapore is a developed economy, of course no body will go hungry, like in India, Bangladesh, Burma and africa,pay him million dollar salary, he talked like we are from 3rd world, not worth to be a minister, no sense at all, no brain, PAP is a good government, how people will go hungry,damn stupid, LKY said no beggers in singapore, the minister is sleeping, no one is hungry in singapore ok,
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You realise this is the lower class i've been talking about all day right?Originally posted by eagle:I think his main focus is not on the pay cut, but rather the out-of-job part, and yet unable to find a job. Middle-age with low educational background => damn hard to upgrade or find jobs already.
They are the most vulnerable to changes, because they have no buffer.
But as I have repeated many times...capitalist economies ALWAYS have a lower class. It's part of the system. Just like to build big cities, you need big ugly sewers.
The problem here is, in the last few decades of relative isolation, the government has managed to make the lower class too secure. Secure to the point people have forgotten we have a bottom class. And now that they are suddenly visible again, everyone blames the government.
Smell the wind people. This is the real world. This is how it actually works in the rest of the world. The fact that the government has made considerable strides in eliminating the problem altogether for so long is testament to it's success.
To get to the top, we have to step on each other. This is how capitalism works. It's ugly, so we don't like to think about it. But for every dollar you make, someone has to lose a dollar. And that is the gist of it. There's a bottom class because the rest of us aren't there.
We created the problem(it's a natural process due to greed). Now we expect the government to clean it up. -
All I can say is Gazelle, please try not to think in the Government's or electronic factory bosses' shoe. Their aim is to maximize economical growth or company profit.Originally posted by Gazelle:1) Are your saying electronic companies in Singapore has broken the labour law on foreign labour quota?
2) Are you not aware that Singapore government has been trying to boost the tourism, services and hospitality industry to provide jobs for the low skilled and uneducated Singaporeans.
3) Tell me what exactly you have done to help the poor, other than trying to be some super computer robinhood?
For once, try to think in the shoe of a low income worker.
1) Nope I am not saying they broke the foreign labour quota. Pardon my ignorance is there such a quote for the low-skilled workers in factories to begin with?
2) Equally low pay but nevertheless good effort by the Government. But we haven seen much success yet. Moreover, job hopping isnt going to be easy for many middle and old age workers.
3) I am a poor man. -
Welcome to the real world. Where the people who do the most disgusting jobs and work the hardest are paid the least.Originally posted by Spartans:To add on, their salaries are already very low. let say plus OT ie 7am to 7pm everyday including Sunday, their total pay is definitely less than $2000. Without OT is less than $1000.
Seriously, I believe for their efforts, they deserved more than these pathetic salaries. And they have families who depend on their tiny salaries to survive on.
They deserve more, but no one in the world would pay them more. The part about dependencies really have no impact on the argument at hand. It's like saying you should fire that guy over there instead of me because I have kids. It's not going to work, especially if you're more expandable. -
Hmm...isn't that the reason why the low income workers are encouraged to take up courses to increase their earnings?
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The problem with this way of thinking of course, is that the most effecient way to solve the problem of lower classes is to create a form of society close to communism.Originally posted by Spartans:All I can say is Gazelle, please try not to think in the Government's or electronic factory bosses' shoe. Their aim is to maximize economical growth or company profit.
For once, try to think in the shoe of a low income worker.
And we know how well that went. -
From ur posting in this thread, u seemed to pretty biased against ruling party for allowing the foreign professional to come here to work?Originally posted by qlqq9:Tell me, did I write ban foreigners blue or white collar? Do you need go back to learn basic English? Don't twist my words.
What have u got against them? -
you help them by creating jobs, not feed them using coupons.Originally posted by Spartans:All I can say is Gazelle, please try not to think in the Government's or electronic factory bosses' shoe. Their aim is to maximize economical growth or company profit.
For once, try to think in the shoe of a low income worker. -
When u mentioned the local are arrogant in term of salary acceptance, maybe there is a possibility they might need more pay for other financial commitments?Originally posted by deathbait:That first statement of yours is so commonplace I've grown tired of pointing it out as a fallacy. While it is true that the rich make money easier, they also lose it alot easier too. Meanwhile, the poor may have a steep slope to climb, but it's still surmountable.
If the locals here are equally capable, and willing to be paid the same wages, they would obviously have been in equal competition with the FT. But that is not the case. Want to know why?
Because Singaporeans are arrogant. Just count the number of times you've heard of a graduate entering the market, refusing to accept jobs below his income expectation.
As for work quality, you guys who work can attest to the much better work ethic the average FT has over the Singaporean. In a free economy, who's going to pick the Singaporean?
Don't blame the inflow of FT for 'stealing' your jobs. It's just not true. The jobs were never yours in the first place for them to steal. If you prove yourself incapable of competing in a free economy, you are the weakest link. -
What you say is true... it is an ugly world out thereOriginally posted by deathbait:Welcome to the real world. Where the people who do the most disgusting jobs and work the hardest are paid the least.
They deserve more, but no one in the world would pay them more. The part about dependencies really have no impact on the argument at hand. It's like saying you should fire that guy over there instead of me because I have kids. It's not going to work, especially if you're more expandable.
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I would like to add on that major firms here would rather hire better skilled Singaporeans here as doing such things would be cheaper than hiring skilled workers from their own countryOriginally posted by Gazelle:you help them by creating jobs, not feed them using coupons.
For the lower skilled part in the manufacturing process, they could afford to hire mainly foreigners because the quota would be fulfilled by the higher skilled singaporeans -
the gahmen is feeding to this divide....
in japan, they pay a `fair wage' to the (e.g.) sweeper there, hence japanese are able to take up the job, and mind you, they do it with pride too. (if one doesn't rob or steal, there is no need to feel shame for menial job, as someone's gotta do it). and they can survive pretty much in that system.
here, it is `outsourced' to foreigners, who is able to accept a fraction of what is paid previously. of course, singaporeans are not able to accept this low wage as it is at or below subsistence level, especially if u got a family of 4 to feed. foreigners, we know already, come alone, slough for 3-5 years, save up and can live life a level or 2 up in their home country. they got a shot at improving their life at home after a few years tapping off singapore.
if u are lumped in the `correct' basket, u r in luck. much sought-after foreigners will drive up the wage of`value add' jobs, so u ride the wave....`wrong' basket, it's a spiral down one very slippery slope.
now, inflation sets-in....chee cheong fun at my fav sotre now costs 33% more, from 60 cents to 80cents per piece. small change for those in the `right' basket people, but for the rest of us, suddenly chee cheong fun doesn't taste as good anymore... -
create jobs to be filled by foreigners? bcos singapore open itself to so-called world market, it will drive wages down to unnecessary level whre locals cannot realistically compete.Originally posted by Gazelle:you help them by creating jobs, not feed them using coupons.
say what u want....when a plate of rice costs $3 now as opposed to $2.50 previously, the wages of entry or even (dare i say it) mid-level jobs cannot move in opposite poles. the gahmen's rationale of competitive forces decide cannot make sense in this instance, it drives out the folks (mainly singaporeans who served NS and has roots in this country) who are genuinely in need of a `reasonable' wage to survive here.
of cos the gahmen can interfere.....they have `interfered' countless times of other things, selectively..... -
except, if you're still eating chee cheong fun, you're not doing too badly.Originally posted by weiqimun:the gahmen is feeding to this divide....
in japan, they pay a `fair wage' to the (e.g.) sweeper there, hence japanese are able to take up the job, and mind you, they do it with pride too. (if one doesn't rob or steal, there is no need to feel shame for menial job, as someone's gotta do it). and they can survive pretty much in that system.
here, it is `outsourced' to foreigners, who is able to accept a fraction of what is paid previously. of course, singaporeans are not able to accept this low wage as it is at or below subsistence level, especially if u got a family of 4 to feed. foreigners, we know already, come alone, slough for 3-5 years, save up and can live life a level or 2 up in their home country. they got a shot at improving their life at home after a few years tapping off singapore.
if u are lumped in the `correct' basket, u r in luck. much sought-after foreigners will drive up the wage of`value add' jobs, so u ride the wave....`wrong' basket, it's a spiral down one very slippery slope.
now, inflation sets-in....chee cheong fun at my fav sotre now costs 33% more, from 60 cents to 80cents per piece. small change for those in the `right' basket people, but for the rest of us, suddenly chee cheong fun doesn't taste as good anymore... -
my last chee cheong fun left a bitter taste in my mouth...Originally posted by deathbait:except, if you're still eating chee cheong fun, you're not doing too badly.
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1) Companies will not invest in Singapore for cheap labours, they go to places like vietnam, malaysia and chinaOriginally posted by weiqimun:create jobs to be filled by foreigners? bcos singapore open itself to so-called world market, it will drive wages down to unnecessary level whre locals cannot realistically compete.
say what u want....when a plate of rice costs $3 now as opposed to $2.50 previously, the wages of entry or even (dare i say it) mid-level jobs cannot move in opposite poles. the gahmen's rationale of competitive forces decide cannot make sense in this instance, it drives out the folks (mainly singaporeans who served NS and has roots in this country) who are genuinely in need of a `reasonable' wage to survive here.
of cos the gahmen can interfere.....they have `interfered' countless times of other things, selectively.....
2) the only time government really drives down wages in Singapore is when they cut the employer CPF contributions during recession. but that was necessary.
3) Singapore is not in position to compete with developing countries on cheap labours, we compete on skilled labours, infrastructure and corporate tax incentives etc.
4) Company will pay you for what you are worth, they wont pay you a premium just because you are Singaporeans. If you cant compete with FT, become a civil servant -
Very important news.
Thank you
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singaporeans rather die of hunger, than to lose face.
if a singaporean has gone into despair dat he is jobless, bankrupt, wife left him, etc. most likely he would commit suicide.
no singaporean will go hungry. but if they lose hope n face, most likely they will jump off the mrt track. -
1. each country will have its niches on what industries best fit it's profile, also many other factors will play a role. if going by your `rationale', all the lower wage countries will hoard everything, from manufacturing to what hv u...in reality it is not the case. n if u imply there is no cheap labour in sgp, why are there no `value' in menial jobs? this is a case of `cheap' labour coming in.
2. u get pay rise of 4% or less but inflation goes up to 5%, pray tell....in sgp, wages can be manipulated somewhat, just look at the MIW's salary for a start. that's is not market rate, i can assure u.
3. u talk c*ck. u mean singapore got no entry level job? at every level, in every org, u need a fair mix of newbies and experience, for every job. which planet are u from? again, going by your logic, those going to ITEs are wasting their time.
4. Thanks to NTUC, the company can pay u for what's your worth. So, what is your worth? take a $1.3k and pay world class utilities fares?
u r a heartless piece of cr*p. are u a civil servant?
i m not.Originally posted by Gazelle:1) Companies will not invest in Singapore for cheap labours, they go to places like vietnam, malaysia and china
2) the only time government really drives down wages in Singapore is when they cut the employer CPF contributions during recession. but that was necessary.
3) Singapore is not in position to compete with developing countries on cheap labours, we compete on skilled labours, infrastructure and corporate tax incentives etc.
4) Company will pay you for what you are worth, they wont pay you a premium just because you are Singaporeans. If you cant compete with FT, become a civil servant -
Pts 1-3 are debatableOriginally posted by Gazelle:1) Companies will not invest in Singapore for cheap labours, they go to places like vietnam, malaysia and china
2) the only time government really drives down wages in Singapore is when they cut the employer CPF contributions during recession. but that was necessary.
3) Singapore is not in position to compete with developing countries on cheap labours, we compete on skilled labours, infrastructure and corporate tax incentives etc.
4) Company will pay you for what you are worth, they wont pay you a premium just because you are Singaporeans. If you cant compete with FT, become a civil servant
but pt 4, i agree -
how about not paying u less because u r a singaporean?Originally posted by Gazelle:Company will pay you for what you are worth, they wont pay you a premium just because you are Singaporeans.... -
Wow this thread has jumped 4 x in the last few hours.Originally posted by deathbait:regarding the taxi hikes. I'm actually of the opinion that they deserved a much bigger hike a long time ago. Taxi prices have been kept unnaturally low. It's the reason you can't get cabs most of the time. The invisible hand isn't working.
minister pay increase has nothing to do with the poor. Don't pull non-issues into the argument just because it has something to do with the government. As for GST increase, it's a direct contribution to the problem of course, but as i said before, in every capitalist society, someone has to be lower class. And progress is always going to sting for the lower class. It's an inherent problem no one can solve. As such, GST is a source of the problem, but cannot exactly be blamed or solved.
Obviously, you didn't comprehend my argument. Ministerial wage increases, COUPLED with that of GST and transportation hikes, promoted the mindset of the general public to conclude that it's a good time to up THEIR OWN SALARIES.
This in turn leads to the vicious cycle of inflation, which directly and indirectly impacts the poor. The govt sector, responding to the 'call', decided to pay themselves more. Likewise the private sector had to compete, lest they lose their most valued employees. Likewise the supplier of noodles, the canned pork distributor and flour producer.
All decided it was also in their best interest to raise prices to stay 'competitive'.
Whether you like it or not, every minute event plays its role in the current situation; your attempt to discount and disassociate the issues mirror those of the govt. Denying mistakes does not solve problems; it merely serves to thicken one's pride beyond reason.
Actions such as sizable tax rebates for various income groups, transport rebates and govt subsidies on specific food supplements (imported and locally manufactured) could help act as a short term buffer while they figure out a long term solution.
Yet the govt has not acted on any course of action, other than to speculate and ask citizens to weather the storm and rein in their expenditure.
"Frugal times ahead for Singaporeans' screams today's headlines.
Gee, I don't need a million dollar minister to give me that kind of advice.